Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

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Robin Hood
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by Robin Hood »

gclayjr wrote: January 12th, 2018, 7:14 am


... and Leave us alone..

George Clay
So, let me get this straight.
You think that my participating on this forum is not leaving you alone?
Seriously?

I didn't realize you were so insecure.

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gclayjr
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by gclayjr »

Robin Hood,
gclayjr wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:14 am



... and Leave us alone..

George Clay

So, let me get this straight.
You think that my participating on this forum is not leaving you alone?
Seriously?

I didn't realize you were so insecure.
Top
Again a complete lack of communication. This thread is about visiting Western Europe, What I meant was you stay in Britain, and we will stay here in the US that you have so much contempt for.

You can enjoy the socialist programs you enjoy, that you don't call socialist that exists in Britain, and we can struggle to keep that crap from further infecting us.

Regards

George Clay

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Robin Hood
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by Robin Hood »

gclayjr wrote: January 12th, 2018, 8:27 am Robin Hood,
gclayjr wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:14 am



... and Leave us alone..

George Clay

So, let me get this straight.
You think that my participating on this forum is not leaving you alone?
Seriously?

I didn't realize you were so insecure.
Top
Again a complete lack of communication. This thread is about visiting Western Europe, What I meant was you stay in Britain, and we will stay here in the US that you have so much contempt for.

You can enjoy the socialist programs you enjoy, that you don't call socialist that exists in Britain, and we can struggle to keep that crap from further infecting us.

Regards

George Clay
You're talking in riddles now George.
The thread is about you guys not visiting western Europe, so you tell me to stay here!
Whatever "crap" is infecting you George, your muddled reasoning suggests to me it's already too late!

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David13
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Location: Utah

Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: January 12th, 2018, 6:27 am
David13 wrote: January 11th, 2018, 1:34 pm


You said I'm a member of a socialist church.
You are a member of a church which clearly practices many socialist principles.
You can deny it 'til the cows come home, but that doesn't alter the fact that it is true.
Sorry to mess with your polarized mindset dc.
How can you be so blind? By choice, I guess.

You should read what I posted.

Jesus Christ was not a socialist. And the church is not a socialist organization.

It's just clear that you not only don't understand a thing about how the world operates, you don't understand what socialism is, and is not.

I can't educate someone who chooses to be blissfully ignorant.
dc

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David13
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: January 12th, 2018, 9:03 am
gclayjr wrote: January 12th, 2018, 8:27 am Robin Hood,
gclayjr wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:14 am



... and Leave us alone..

George Clay

So, let me get this straight.
You think that my participating on this forum is not leaving you alone?
Seriously?

I didn't realize you were so insecure.
Top
Again a complete lack of communication. This thread is about visiting Western Europe, What I meant was you stay in Britain, and we will stay here in the US that you have so much contempt for.

You can enjoy the socialist programs you enjoy, that you don't call socialist that exists in Britain, and we can struggle to keep that crap from further infecting us.

Regards

George Clay
You're talking in riddles now George.
The thread is about you guys not visiting western Europe, so you tell me to stay here!
Whatever "crap" is infecting you George, your muddled reasoning suggests to me it's already too late!

Robin Hood, part of your problem is that you believe your own lies. You think if you say the NHS is free, then it is free. It isn't.

What's the difference between the government and the state? Nothing. It's only different levels of the same thing. Here at least. Again, a distinction without a difference.

But it's above your head, I guess, so you end up with nothing but pure nonsense. Again. Don't you get bored with it?
dc

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gclayjr
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by gclayjr »

Robin Hood,
You're talking in riddles now George.
The thread is about you guys not visiting western Europe, so you tell me to stay here!
Whatever "crap" is infecting you George, your muddled reasoning suggests to me it's already too late!
You are now doing the same thing to me as you do to David13. I lay out a step by step case using your own words to show that you are either deceptive or confused about Socialism, Libertarianism, and how wonderful the NHS is (That you have convinced yourself is some free market entity ... largely based upon the fact that people Rich enough, even after vast amounts of taxes have been extorted from them, still choose to bail out and pay for private services....instead of the free NHS).

Then what is your response? You address no real points. You seize upon an inelegant phrase that is not even important to the points being made, and pound that with insulting adjectives, and ignore either actually rebutting my points, or making a clear case for yours.

I will accept your snarky seizing upon inelegant phrases and ignoring cogent points as proof that below your snarky comments resides ... well nothing.


Regards,

George Clay

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True
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by True »

Not to interrupt your fight or anything but I have visited Western Europe three times in the last 8 years or so. Twice we drove over 2,000 miles around Robin Hood’s nice island. Maybe next time I can stop by and say hi. We also went to Paris, Switzerland, Austria and parts of Germany. You go to Western Europe because of the love of history, at least that is why I did it.

You go because the Scottish highlands are calling your name and because in your eyes, through the misty green landscape you can see men in kilts battling it out in a cattle raid. You go because in Scotland, you ancestor John Allen from Kirkentilloch, found the gospel of Jesus Christ and crossed an ocean for the sake of the Lord, dying a good death in a small town in Utah where he scratched out a living in the desert.
You go because you can see the kings and queens of the greatest empire and of your ancestors, lying in state and their tombs can be touched with your hands and really, the Black Prince must have been shorter than I imagined to fit in that box. You go because you can feel the spirit in St. Paul’s cathedral where many of the worlds greatest men greet you with their grand statues. There they are! The Duke of Wellington, Horatio Nelson and the British generals that we know from our Revolutionary War.

You go because Austria (through the Habsburgs) was the seat of the Holy Roman Empire for hundreds of years, up until Napoleon Bonaparte forced a dissolution. There are endless historical and actual treasures there. In one museum there were many, many artifacts from Ephesus and I wondered if Paul had layed eyes on any of those statues. I got to see the car that the Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie were assasinated in, along with his bloody uniform that he was wearing. Also, much shorter than I thought. I don’t know how you beat that.

I got to go to ancient abbeys and horrid concentration camps and fantastical castles and the bird’s nest and I rowed a boat on lake Geneva with friends from home who lived in Switzerland on that placid lake. We ate chocolate and ascended the highest heights to see the Matterhorn where Jesus in twisted agony hangs on his metal cross overlooking the alps, forever cold.

You go to attend the temples in foreign lands and rub shoulders with the saints. In Bern, Switzerland we had a sealing session where the sealer performed the ordinance in English, French, Italian and German - according to the language of the patrons present. There was such a feeling of unity that all present embraced each other warmly and shed tears though we could not communicate with each other. In that very sealing session, a couple from a town 5 miles away from us in Arizona were sealed for time and all eternity. We did not know where they were from just that they spoke English. When we saw them at the exit of the temple they told us where they were from and we could not believe it! We spent the rest of the day together and now are friends with them and get together to attend the temple here. It was like it was meant to be, and though they are 20 years older than us, we are kindred spirits.

Don’t get me wrong, the United States is great and has a divine history, but as my son would put it....Western Europe is fricken awesome!

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True
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by True »

I forgot about Norte-Dame cathedral where a group of blessed American teenagers were performing strings on a little raised stage behind the church. I could tell because they were dressed like Americans, normal. The city is beautiful and as a bonus, so is the food. Some of the people could have been nicer but....the Mona Lisa! Really, it is mind blowing how ordinary it is!!
Also, Shakespeare!! London plays and the opera in Vienna. There is NOT enough sugar in ANY of the deserts in continental Europe. A major downside.
Oh, the Isle of Skye where we literally felt like Adam and Eve in the lone and dreary world and where there was a traffic jam of highland cows, with their long, orange, whispy hair covering their eyes. We had to wait until an amorous couple of bovine finished their Scottish romance right there in the road for all the world to see! Well, at least we saw it.
Last edited by True on January 12th, 2018, 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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David13
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by David13 »

True wrote: January 12th, 2018, 5:36 pm I forgot about Norte-Dame cathedral where a group of blessed American teenagers were performing strings on a little raised stage behind the church. I could tell because they were dressed like Americans, normal. The city is beautiful and as a bonus, so is the food. Some of the people could have been nicer but....the Mona Lisa! Really, it is mind blowing how ordinary it is!!
Also, Shakespeare!! London plays and the opera in Vienna. There is NOT enough sugar in ANY of the deserts in continental Europe. A major downside.
It was not a fight. It is a debate.

You are quite right about both your posts.

But what our debate is about is that all that you say is being destroyed, taken away, overrun by heathen hordes under the banner of a "religion" that is actually an evil political system. A dangerous and violent one.

We are lamenting the loss, the inevitable and already started loss of exactly what you went to see.
dc

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True
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by True »

I know what you are doing. It seems more like a fight to me and so I am distracting, deflecting, trying to go off topic in a wonderful way:). It was fun to remember all of those good times.
Also, it is okay for someone to be a product of their culture. Most of us are. At least all of you seem to have thick skin and are similar types of ??...not nice.

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harakim
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by harakim »

Robin Hood wrote: January 11th, 2018, 5:08 am I always assume that the person I am addressing is at least as intelligent as me, possibly more so.
Hehe that made me laugh. I don't make that assumption.

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harakim
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by harakim »

gclayjr wrote: January 12th, 2018, 9:26 am Robin Hood,
You're talking in riddles now George.
The thread is about you guys not visiting western Europe, so you tell me to stay here!
Whatever "crap" is infecting you George, your muddled reasoning suggests to me it's already too late!
You are now doing the same thing to me as you do to David13. I lay out a step by step case using your own words to show that you are either deceptive or confused about Socialism, Libertarianism, and how wonderful the NHS is (That you have convinced yourself is some free market entity ... largely based upon the fact that people Rich enough, even after vast amounts of taxes have been extorted from them, still choose to bail out and pay for private services....instead of the free NHS).

Then what is your response? You address no real points. You seize upon an inelegant phrase that is not even important to the points being made, and pound that with insulting adjectives, and ignore either actually rebutting my points, or making a clear case for yours.

I will accept your snarky seizing upon inelegant phrases and ignoring cogent points as proof that below your snarky comments resides ... well nothing.


Regards,

George Clay
It's been so long said you've said anything relevant to the article it's hard to even remember your position. Perhaps you can get this thread back on track by restating it.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: January 12th, 2018, 9:07 am
Robin Hood wrote: January 12th, 2018, 9:03 am
gclayjr wrote: January 12th, 2018, 8:27 am Robin Hood,
gclayjr wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:14 am



... and Leave us alone..

George Clay

So, let me get this straight.
You think that my participating on this forum is not leaving you alone?
Seriously?

I didn't realize you were so insecure.
Top
Again a complete lack of communication. This thread is about visiting Western Europe, What I meant was you stay in Britain, and we will stay here in the US that you have so much contempt for.

You can enjoy the socialist programs you enjoy, that you don't call socialist that exists in Britain, and we can struggle to keep that crap from further infecting us.

Regards

George Clay
You're talking in riddles now George.
The thread is about you guys not visiting western Europe, so you tell me to stay here!
Whatever "crap" is infecting you George, your muddled reasoning suggests to me it's already too late!

Robin Hood, part of your problem is that you believe your own lies. You think if you say the NHS is free, then it is free. It isn't.

What's the difference between the government and the state? Nothing. It's only different levels of the same thing. Here at least. Again, a distinction without a difference.

But it's above your head, I guess, so you end up with nothing but pure nonsense. Again. Don't you get bored with it?
dc
Your ignorance is truly breathtaking dc.
It amazes me how expert you are on the subject of the NHS. You sit there 6,000 miles away, having no experience of either using it or paying for it, but pontificate about it as if you were the sole repository of all wisdom on the subject!
Ignorance and arrogance in equal measure methinks.

And then, in order to demonstrate this beyond all reasonable doubt, you make the ridiculous statement that the State and the government are the same thing here in the UK!

These rash statements do not appear to be isolated incidents. I well remember the "100 to 1000 freedoms" gaff, as well as the incident where you stated something, then said you didn't and blamed it on George!
So you have form.

I am left to conclude one of two things. Either you are playing devils advocate and are simply trying to provoke me for some infantile reason, or you actually do possess the aforementioned characteristics you demonstrate so successfully.

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gclayjr
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by gclayjr »

Robin Hood,
And then, in order to demonstrate this beyond all reasonable doubt, you make the ridiculous statement that the State and the government are the same thing here in the UK!
I didn't see your exchange with dc, about state and government. But I did have an exchange with you in regards to the Charly Gard case where I pointed out that the British government was taking away the the parental rights to seek medical care for their sick son, and demanding that the parents let the NHS kill him. You pointed out to me that the courts are not part of the government. I pointed out to you that here in the US even children learn about the 3 branches of the government Legislative, Executive, and Judicial. You then demonstrated to me that in Britain, the Judicial is part of what you call the crown, and that you guys don't call the crown your government, so therefor when the court in Britain demanded the murder of this little boy, it wasn't the government, but the crown.

Maybe I have been wrong about you. I (and maybe dc also). I have found it very difficult to try and have a rational debate on the topic of creeping socialism, because we try and lay out the facts and arguments to demonstrate what socialism is and how those things that you defend and love, are not, as you believe libertarian capitalistic concepts. You never address the core of those arguments, you always seize upon some jot or title of the language, such as the difference in British law between Government, Crown or State, while missing the generic concept of government as those people and organizations who exercise governing power over you. Then insult our intelligence and think QED you have proven us stupid and you superior.

I have always assumed that this was a game for you. Sort of like taking two kittens and rubbing their faces together, then setting them down upon the ground and watching them fight. I often thought that you didn't even believe much of what you posted. You just enjoyed generating frustration with those who hold certain core beliefs.

Now I am beginning to believe that maybe you actually cannot see the forest for the trees, and cannot get your arms around basic concepts, because all you can see is some profound rhetorical differences between Crown, State, and Government, or some digit like 100 to 1000 freedoms, and this shines so much to you, that you don't even get the key concepts that dc, me or others are trying to make between individual liberty and government control. If this is true, please accept my apology.

However, I must confess, I am still not sure that you are not really trying to have an honest discussion, but just the guy who likes to rub the two kittens noses together and watch them fight.

Regards,

George Clay

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David13
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Re: Who would want to visit western Europe anymore?

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: January 13th, 2018, 6:17 am
David13 wrote: January 12th, 2018, 9:07 am
Robin Hood wrote: January 12th, 2018, 9:03 am
gclayjr wrote: January 12th, 2018, 8:27 am Robin Hood,



Again a complete lack of communication. This thread is about visiting Western Europe, What I meant was you stay in Britain, and we will stay here in the US that you have so much contempt for.

You can enjoy the socialist programs you enjoy, that you don't call socialist that exists in Britain, and we can struggle to keep that crap from further infecting us.

Regards

George Clay
You're talking in riddles now George.
The thread is about you guys not visiting western Europe, so you tell me to stay here!
Whatever "crap" is infecting you George, your muddled reasoning suggests to me it's already too late!

Robin Hood, part of your problem is that you believe your own lies. You think if you say the NHS is free, then it is free. It isn't.

What's the difference between the government and the state? Nothing. It's only different levels of the same thing. Here at least. Again, a distinction without a difference.

But it's above your head, I guess, so you end up with nothing but pure nonsense. Again. Don't you get bored with it?
dc
Your ignorance is truly breathtaking dc.
It amazes me how expert you are on the subject of the NHS. You sit there 6,000 miles away, having no experience of either using it or paying for it, but pontificate about it as if you were the sole repository of all wisdom on the subject!
Ignorance and arrogance in equal measure methinks.

And then, in order to demonstrate this beyond all reasonable doubt, you make the ridiculous statement that the State and the government are the same thing here in the UK!

These rash statements do not appear to be isolated incidents. I well remember the "100 to 1000 freedoms" gaff, as well as the incident where you stated something, then said you didn't and blamed it on George!
So you have form.

I am left to conclude one of two things. Either you are playing devils advocate and are simply trying to provoke me for some infantile reason, or you actually do possess the aforementioned characteristics you demonstrate so successfully.

What nonsense Robin Hood. You didn't say a thing about anything I said, but instead jumped to some nasty and false conclusions. Lies again. I claimed no expertise on NHS, but we all know it's paid for by the taxpayers, just like any other socialist program. You have not refuted something that you cannot refute.

You also make no distinction between the "government" and the "state" that makes any difference. Because you can't. More of your nonsense.

What should amaze you is your own ignorance, arrogance, stubbornness. Stubborn as a mule, they say, oh wait, the mule, the symbol of the socialist party here in the USA. Now I get it.

Come now, can you address any of the issues?

Are you even able to parrot all the usual cultural marxist nonsense? You're fishing in the dark here.
dc

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