Latter-day Saints Rejecting Doctrine And Prophets

[Franco]

Satan deceives people into believing his lies while convincing them that they are listening to the Holy Ghost. People are deceived because they do not know they are listening to Satan. Scriptures show us that Satan can even deceive people into believing someone is Christ. In Matthew 24:5, Christ said, “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

Paul told the Corinthians that there are “false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” – 2 Corinthians 11:13-14

He told the Romans that there are those who “by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple,” and they “cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine.” – Romans 16:17-18

Paul thought it necessary to warn the Hebrews about Satan’s ability to convince people that false doctrines are true, telling them to “be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.” – Hebrews 13:9

He warned the Colossian saints: “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” – Colossians 2:8

Latter-day Saints who go against God’s prophet on the earth have been deceived by Satan. If they claim that the Holy Ghost told them to go against the prophet, then it is quite obvious that Satan has convinced them to follow after “false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

Or Satan has led them to be spoiled “through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”

Or they gave heed to Satan and were “carried about with divers and strange doctrines.”

David Whitmer, one of the three witnesses, is a prime example. God wanted him to believe the Doctrine and Covenants is the word of God revealed to Joseph Smith. Satan told him it was not the word of God. He apostatized, thinking the Holy Ghost revealed to him that the Doctrine and Covenants is not the word of God. He apostatized, thinking he was following Jesus Christ and thinking he had no need to give heed to Jesus Christ's prophet on the earth.

[Mcox]

I think President Uchtdorf covered it so well in his talk Saturday morning! He said
"Sometimes, the truth may just seem too straightforward, too plain, and too simple for us to fully appreciate its great value. So we set aside what we have experienced and know to be true in pursuit of more mysterious or complicated information. Hopefully we will learn that when we chase after shadows, we are pursuing matters that have little substance and value.

When it comes to spiritual truth, how can we know that we are on the right path?"
What are the shadows we are chasing?

[Robert Sinclair]

Idols are being pursued with the "first fruits" and even the "gleaning grapes" that were to be for the poor.

Good to return to offer the "first fruits" as well as the "gleaning grapes", in abundance for the poor.♡

[lundbaek]

What are the doctrines and words of prophets that have been very much rejected by members of the Church over the years ?

[Robert Sinclair]

Be equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly.♡

[Robert Sinclair]

This by the head as well as the tail.♡

[lundbaek]

What else ? Is that all you can think of, Robert ? People sometimes say the same thing about me, that I am banging on only one note on the piano.

[2EstablishZion]

learn of, uphold and defend the Constitution!

[Robert Sinclair]

This note of equality is a rainbow of melody that reaches and brings great joy to all the souls in heaven.♡

For some reason you never hear it played at General Conference as yet, except possibly once with Lorenzo Snow, who lamented the loss of it's sweet sound among the people.♡

Would be wonderful to hear this note played at the next coming April 2016 General Conference, a sound of great joy.♡

[lundbaek]

For members of the Church, education is not just a good idea, it is a commandment. We are to learn of (See D&C 88:79) (President Uchtdorf, October 2009 General Conference Priesthood Session)

[lundbaek]

"Thou shalt not steal".

"When a portion of wealth is tranferred from the person who owns it - without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud - to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed! How is the legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime....I deem it a violation of the right of private property guaranteed under the Constitution for the Federal Government to forcibly deprive the citizens of this nation of their nation of their property through taxation or otherwise, and make a gift thereof to foreign governments or their citizens." Ezra Taft Benson, "The Proper Role Of Government"

[2EstablishZion]

Benson quoting Bastiat, love it!

[brianj]

What else ? Is that all you can think of, Robert ? People sometimes say the same thing about me, that I am banging on only one note on the piano.

There is plenty that people reject. In the Last Days forum somebody argued that nobody but the prophet is entitled to receive revelation. In addition to denying that anybody at the stake or ward level is called by revelation, that claim would mean that we can't have the revelation that our testimonies should be based in.
I have come across quotes from First Presidency members telling members that we should be praying for gifts of the spirit that we don't have, but it seems that a majority of the members I have known believe that prophecy, dreams, and visions are only for general authorities, that angels no longer minister, that healings no longer happen and blessings are only given to encourage and strengthen people until they recover, that prophesied future events can't possibly happen because the US, like Jerusalem or Zarahemla, is too great to fall, and so on.

Too many in the church lack faith. People can come to Sunday School, Priesthood, or Relief Society, in a lesson be asked to read a passage of scripture or a quote from an Apostle stating these gifts are available to all who have faith, and dismiss those words because Satan has convinced them that such gifts are only for the top leaders of the church. By getting people to reject the gifts of the spirit, reject the level of faith necessary to receive those gifts, and teach others that those gifts are no longer available to rank and file church members, Satan restricts Heavenly Father's ability to provide miracles because of our restricted faith. And when we have quotes from church leaders telling us those gifts are available to all of us, the only way to believe those gifts are not available to us is to reject doctrine and the prophets.

We also have people who call themselves faithful church members rejecting teachings on the role of government, freedom, family, homosexuality, and many other subjects. The church was very clear in their teachings on family in the Proclamation on the Family but when an Apostle says that church members can support homosexual marriage without losing their temple recommends, some members immediately ignored his statement that the church can teach true principles but can't force members to accept those principles, ignored every prior teaching on the subject, and started telling the rest of us that we are hypocrites for not believing as they do. We are free to believe as we wish, but a belief that we should support homosexual marriage requires rejecting doctrine and the prophets.

[Desert Roses]

What else ? Is that all you can think of, Robert ? People sometimes say the same thing about me, that I am banging on only one note on the piano.

There is plenty that people reject. In the Last Days forum somebody argued that nobody but the prophet is entitled to receive revelation. In addition to denying that anybody at the stake or ward level is called by revelation, that claim would mean that we can't have the revelation that our testimonies should be based in.
I have come across quotes from First Presidency members telling members that we should be praying for gifts of the spirit that we don't have, but it seems that a majority of the members I have known believe that prophecy, dreams, and visions are only for general authorities, that angels no longer minister, that healings no longer happen and blessings are only given to encourage and strengthen people until they recover, that prophesied future events can't possibly happen because the US, like Jerusalem or Zarahemla, is too great to fall, and so on.

Too many in the church lack faith. People can come to Sunday School, Priesthood, or Relief Society, in a lesson be asked to read a passage of scripture or a quote from an Apostle stating these gifts are available to all who have faith, and dismiss those words because Satan has convinced them that such gifts are only for the top leaders of the church. By getting people to reject the gifts of the spirit, reject the level of faith necessary to receive those gifts, and teach others that those gifts are no longer available to rank and file church members, Satan restricts Heavenly Father's ability to provide miracles because of our restricted faith. And when we have quotes from church leaders telling us those gifts are available to all of us, the only way to believe those gifts are not available to us is to reject doctrine and the prophets.

We also have people who call themselves faithful church members rejecting teachings on the role of government, freedom, family, homosexuality, and many other subjects. The church was very clear in their teachings on family in the Proclamation on the Family but when an Apostle says that church members can support homosexual marriage without losing their temple recommends, some members immediately ignored his statement that the church can teach true principles but can't force members to accept those principles, ignored every prior teaching on the subject, and started telling the rest of us that we are hypocrites for not believing as they do. We are free to believe as we wish, but a belief that we should support homosexual marriage requires rejecting doctrine and the prophets.

Wow...I guess I've been attending a different church all these years! I've heard many, many stories of spiritual gifts, of miracles from healings to raising the dead to changing a person's very nature, of gifts of speaking in tongues, of prophecies, and just about any other gift you can find reference to in the scriptures--and that's just in Sunday School and RS. I've experienced healings, prophecies for my own family and self, visions, ministrations of angels...and so on. I'm not a person with anything special or any special talents, and if its like that for me, and for those I talk to (in Utah wards), then what's going on that the ones you know aren't having any of these blessings? That's sad!

[Zathura]

Joseph Smith said that members minds were darkened because they depend too much on the prophet.

Heber C. Kimball said we shouldn't put our trust in any man, be it a bishop, stake president, or apostle, and that they WILL fail us one day.

Does this mean we can't follow the Prophet? No.. does it mean that we shouldn't depend too much on them and put our trust in them> Yes, according to the words of THE PROPHET WHO RESTORED THE CHURCH, and a man who was Brigham Young's 1st Counselor.

Why does nobody address these quotes? Why do you pick and choose which quotes you want to believe and follow and ignore the ones that contradict your opinion?

Is it so hard to follow God's messengers without taking it to far and making prophets the whole rock of your testimony and religion?

[Desert Roses]

Joseph Smith said that members minds were darkened because they depend too much on the prophet.

Heber C. Kimball said we shouldn't put our trust in any man, be it a bishop, stake president, or apostle, and that they WILL fail us one day.

Does this mean we can't follow the Prophet? No.. does it mean that we shouldn't depend too much on them and put our trust in them> Yes, according to the words of THE PROPHET WHO RESTORED THE CHURCH, and a man who was Brigham Young's 1st Counselor.

Why does nobody address these quotes? Why do you pick and choose which quotes you want to believe and follow and ignore the ones that contradict your opinion?

Is it so hard to follow God's messengers without taking it to far and making prophets the whole rock of your testimony and religion?

Stahura, I DO follow those quotes. When the prophet speaks, I make it my business to go to the Lord, on my knees, and confirm that what was taught is the will, the word of the Lord. To date, it's been 100%. To be honest, after about a year or two of this with every GC talk, and with any other thing from the apostles and prophets, and getting ALWAYS the answer, that yes, this man was speaking for Him, I kinda quit fussing about it. When we got new apostles, or when I get a new bishop, or a new stake president, etc., I still ask, particularly if they say something that kinda doesn't sit right with my understanding or views. The answer I invariably get in my prayers and meditations is that I need to let go of something that's blocking my understanding of the Lord's work and will...and I get to grow a little!

[Zathura]

Joseph Smith said that members minds were darkened because they depend too much on the prophet.

Heber C. Kimball said we shouldn't put our trust in any man, be it a bishop, stake president, or apostle, and that they WILL fail us one day.

Does this mean we can't follow the Prophet? No.. does it mean that we shouldn't depend too much on them and put our trust in them> Yes, according to the words of THE PROPHET WHO RESTORED THE CHURCH, and a man who was Brigham Young's 1st Counselor.

Why does nobody address these quotes? Why do you pick and choose which quotes you want to believe and follow and ignore the ones that contradict your opinion?

Is it so hard to follow God's messengers without taking it to far and making prophets the whole rock of your testimony and religion?

Stahura, I DO follow those quotes. When the prophet speaks, I make it my business to go to the Lord, on my knees, and confirm that what was taught is the will, the word of the Lord. To date, it's been 100%. To be honest, after about a year or two of this with every GC talk, and with any other thing from the apostles and prophets, and getting ALWAYS the answer, that yes, this man was speaking for Him, I kinda quit fussing about it. When we got new apostles, or when I get a new bishop, or a new stake president, etc., I still ask, particularly if they say something that kinda doesn't sit right with my understanding or views. The answer I invariably get in my prayers and meditations is that I need to let go of something that's blocking my understanding of the Lord's work and will...and I get to grow a little!

Perfect. This is how it should be, this is what I strive to do. The way you go about this is wonderful, I thank you for your example

[marc]

Satan deceives people into believing his lies while convincing them that they are listening to the Holy Ghost. People are deceived because they do not know they are listening to Satan....

Good evening, Franco. That's a very powerful statement, but it's probably true. So in the spirit of truth, I would like to ask you a question, if you please. Referencing Sunday's Priesthood session, I offer the following quote from one of our Apostles, Elder Anderson's talk:

Honest Questions

Addressing honest questions is an important part of building faith, and we use both our intellect and our feelings. The Lord said, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart.” Not all answers will come immediately, but most questions can be resolved through sincere study and seeking answers from God. Using our mind without our heart will not bring spiritual answers. “The things of God knoweth no man, but [through] the Spirit of God.”14 And to help us, Jesus promised us “another Comforter” and called Him “even the Spirit of truth.”15

Here is the link to his talk at lds.org: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... 41andersen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As you can see, two scriptures are referenced (one from 1 Corinthians and the other from the gospel of John). Who is Elder Anderson referring to in this paragraph? What say ye?

[Thinker]

Does God care more about what people say (doctrine) or what they do?

As members of the church, what should we care about most?

If actions and speech are not in harmony, what then?
(Jesus discussed this.)

[Franco]

Satan deceives people into believing his lies while convincing them that they are listening to the Holy Ghost. People are deceived because they do not know they are listening to Satan....

Good evening, Franco. That's a very powerful statement, but it's probably true. So in the spirit of truth, I would like to ask you a question, if you please. Referencing Sunday's Priesthood session, I offer the following quote from one of our Apostles, Elder Anderson's talk:

Honest Questions

Addressing honest questions is an important part of building faith, and we use both our intellect and our feelings. The Lord said, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart.” Not all answers will come immediately, but most questions can be resolved through sincere study and seeking answers from God. Using our mind without our heart will not bring spiritual answers. “The things of God knoweth no man, but [through] the Spirit of God.”14 And to help us, Jesus promised us “another Comforter” and called Him “even the Spirit of truth.”15

Here is the link to his talk at lds.org: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... 41andersen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As you can see, two scriptures are referenced (one from 1 Corinthians and the other from the gospel of John). Who is Elder Anderson referring to in this paragraph? What say ye?

Christ was speaking to the apostles before He was taken in the Garden of Gethsemane. He was speaking of the Holy Ghost as being the Comforter that would come after He is gone. Notice what the Savior said in John 16:7, "It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Elder Anderson erred when he said Jesus was promising "us" another Comforter. Jesus made that promise to the apostles.

[Finrock]

Latter-day Saints who go against God’s prophet on the earth have been deceived by Satan. If they claim that the Holy Ghost told them to go against the prophet, then it is quite obvious that Satan has convinced them to follow after “false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

Or Satan has led them to be spoiled “through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”

Or they gave heed to Satan and were “carried about with divers and strange doctrines.”

David Whitmer, one of the three witnesses, is a prime example. God wanted him to believe the Doctrine and Covenants is the word of God revealed to Joseph Smith. Satan told him it was not the word of God. He apostatized, thinking the Holy Ghost revealed to him that the Doctrine and Covenants is not the word of God. He apostatized, thinking he was following Jesus Christ and thinking he had no need to give heed to Jesus Christ's prophet on the earth.

Hi Franco!

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit will ever teach me something that you disagree with?

-Finrock

[Zathura]

Satan deceives people into believing his lies while convincing them that they are listening to the Holy Ghost. People are deceived because they do not know they are listening to Satan....

Good evening, Franco. That's a very powerful statement, but it's probably true. So in the spirit of truth, I would like to ask you a question, if you please. Referencing Sunday's Priesthood session, I offer the following quote from one of our Apostles, Elder Anderson's talk:

Honest Questions

Addressing honest questions is an important part of building faith, and we use both our intellect and our feelings. The Lord said, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart.” Not all answers will come immediately, but most questions can be resolved through sincere study and seeking answers from God. Using our mind without our heart will not bring spiritual answers. “The things of God knoweth no man, but [through] the Spirit of God.”14 And to help us, Jesus promised us “another Comforter” and called Him “even the Spirit of truth.”15

Here is the link to his talk at lds.org: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... 41andersen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As you can see, two scriptures are referenced (one from 1 Corinthians and the other from the gospel of John). Who is Elder Anderson referring to in this paragraph? What say ye?

Christ was speaking to the apostles before He was taken in the Garden of Gethsemane. He was speaking of the Holy Ghost as being the Comforter that would come after He is gone. Notice what the Savior said in John 16:7, "It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Elder Anderson erred when he said Jesus was promising "us" another Comforter. Jesus made that promise to the apostles.

Elder Anderson erred?!?!?!?!? :o

[marc]

Satan deceives people into believing his lies while convincing them that they are listening to the Holy Ghost. People are deceived because they do not know they are listening to Satan....

Good evening, Franco. That's a very powerful statement, but it's probably true. So in the spirit of truth, I would like to ask you a question, if you please. Referencing Sunday's Priesthood session, I offer the following quote from one of our Apostles, Elder Anderson's talk:

Honest Questions

Addressing honest questions is an important part of building faith, and we use both our intellect and our feelings. The Lord said, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart.” Not all answers will come immediately, but most questions can be resolved through sincere study and seeking answers from God. Using our mind without our heart will not bring spiritual answers. “The things of God knoweth no man, but [through] the Spirit of God.”14 And to help us, Jesus promised us “another Comforter” and called Him “even the Spirit of truth.”15

Here is the link to his talk at lds.org: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... 41andersen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As you can see, two scriptures are referenced (one from 1 Corinthians and the other from the gospel of John). Who is Elder Anderson referring to in this paragraph? What say ye?

Christ was speaking to the apostles before He was taken in the Garden of Gethsemane. He was speaking of the Holy Ghost as being the Comforter that would come after He is gone. Notice what the Savior said in John 16:7, "It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Elder Anderson erred when he said Jesus was promising "us" another Comforter. Jesus made that promise to the apostles.

Thank you, Franco for your prompt and honest reply. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the Holy Ghost is the "other comforter" and you seem to affirm that He made that promise to his apostles exclusively. Thus:

1. The "other comforter" is the Holy Ghost in this passage
2. Elder Anderson erred when he said that Jesus was promising "us" another Comforter.

I would like to quote Joseph Smith from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 150, which I have right next to me:

The other Comforter spoken of is a subject of great interest, and perhaps understood by few of this generation. After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted. When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses.

Note the 16, 17, 18, 21, 23 verses:

“16. And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with
you forever;
“17. Even the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither
knoweth him; but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
“18. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. * *
“21. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them he it is that loveth me: and he that
loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
“23. If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come
unto him, and make our abode with him.”

Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; and this is the state and place the ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions—Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, St. Paul in the three heavens, and all the Saints who held communion with the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn.

Furthermore:

John 14: 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

D&C 130:3 John 14:23—The appearing of the Father and the Son, in that verse, is a personal appearance; and the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man’s heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false.

Franco, either you and Elder Anderson are both wrong and Joseph Smith is correct, or Joseph Smith knew what he was talking about and you have misunderstood Elder Anderson, who also erred. So who is listening to Satan and who is listening to the Holy Ghost? Like I said, that is a very powerful statement to declare and to make a topic of it.

[Franco]

Satan deceives people into believing his lies while convincing them that they are listening to the Holy Ghost. People are deceived because they do not know they are listening to Satan....

Good evening, Franco. That's a very powerful statement, but it's probably true. So in the spirit of truth, I would like to ask you a question, if you please. Referencing Sunday's Priesthood session, I offer the following quote from one of our Apostles, Elder Anderson's talk:

Honest Questions

Addressing honest questions is an important part of building faith, and we use both our intellect and our feelings. The Lord said, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart.” Not all answers will come immediately, but most questions can be resolved through sincere study and seeking answers from God. Using our mind without our heart will not bring spiritual answers. “The things of God knoweth no man, but [through] the Spirit of God.”14 And to help us, Jesus promised us “another Comforter” and called Him “even the Spirit of truth.”15

Here is the link to his talk at lds.org: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... 41andersen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As you can see, two scriptures are referenced (one from 1 Corinthians and the other from the gospel of John). Who is Elder Anderson referring to in this paragraph? What say ye?

Christ was speaking to the apostles before He was taken in the Garden of Gethsemane. He was speaking of the Holy Ghost as being the Comforter that would come after He is gone. Notice what the Savior said in John 16:7, "It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Elder Anderson erred when he said Jesus was promising "us" another Comforter. Jesus made that promise to the apostles.

Elder Anderson erred?!?!?!?!? :o

The Holy Ghost is not "another" Comforter to us. He is the ONLY Comforter we have. Jesus promised the apostles “another Comforter” because He would be leaving them.

[Zathura]

I am quite confused.
How can we possibly say that scripture means anything other that what Joseph Smith clearly said it meant?

Does Elder Anderson's words overwrite Joseph's because Joseph is now dead and Elder Anderson lives?

The Words of Joseph Smith contradict the words of Elder Anderson. They can't both be correct.

So what do we do? Franco?