Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

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Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby BrianM » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:02 pm

What is the "Tower" mentioned in D&C 101? and it's relation to the U.S. Constitution?

Consider this...

The following comes from The Doctrine & Covenants Section 101, versus 43-62. After reading this parable please read the quote by Joseph Smith below it.

The Doctrine & Covenants Section 101, versus 43-62:

And now, I will show unto you a parable, that you may know my will concerning the redemption of Zion. A certain nobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my vineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive-trees; And set watchmen round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive-trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard.

Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive-trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower. And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower? And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace? Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.

And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord. And the enemy came by night, and broke down the hedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive-trees.

Now, behold, the nobleman, the lord of the vineyard, called upon his servants, and said unto them, Why! what is the cause of this great evil? Ought ye not to have done even as I commanded you, and—after ye had planted the vineyard, and built the hedge round about, and set watchmen upon the walls thereof—built the tower also, and set a awatchman upon the tower, and watched for my vineyard, and not have fallen asleep, lest the enemy should come upon you? And behold, the watchman upon the tower would have seen the enemy while he was yet afar off; and then ye could have made ready and kept the enemy from breaking down the hedge thereof, and saved my vineyard from the hands of the destroyer.

And the lord of the vineyard said unto one of his servants: Go and gather together the residue of my servants, and take all the strength of mine house, which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age also among all my servants, who are the strength of mine house, save those only whom I have appointed to tarry; And go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; for it is mine; I have bought it with money. Therefore, get ye straightway unto my land; break down the walls of mine enemies; throw down their tower, and scatter their watchmen. And inasmuch as they gather together against you, avenge me of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land.

And the servant said unto his lord: When shall these things be?

And he said unto his servant: When I will; go ye straightway, and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you; And this shall be my seal and blessing upon you—a faithful and wise steward in the midst of mine house, a ruler in my kingdom.

And his servant went straightway, and did all things whatsoever his lord commanded him; and after many days all things were fulfilled.


...also Consider...

D&C 101, 77-80: ...According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles; That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment. Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another. And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood...


...and this...

by Joseph Smith ( Sermon Delivered at Nauvoo, Illinois July 19, 1840. Source: Howard and Martha Coray Notebook )

"We shall build the Zion of the Lord in peace untill the servants of that Lord shall begin to lay the foundation of a great and high watch Tower and then shall they begin to say within themselves what need hath my Lord of this tower seeing this is a time of peace & Then the Enemy shall come as a thief in the night and scatter the servants abroad when the seed of these 12 Olive trees are scattered abroad they will wake up the Nations of the whole Earth. Even this Nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to peices and tumbling to the ground and when the constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff up which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction. Then shall the Lord say go tell all my servants who are the strength of mine house my young men and middle aged and come to the Land of my vineyard and fight the battle of the Lord. Then the Kings & Queens shall come then the rulers of the Earth shall come then shall all saints come yea the Foreign saints shall come to fight for the Land of my vineyard for in this thing shall be their safety and they will have no power to choose but will come as a man fleeth from a sudden destruction."


In D&C Section 101 we read about the parable of the Tower and about the U.S. Constitution that "should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles."

Then, in a sermon given by the Prophet Joseph Smith in 1840 he speaks of that same parable of the Tower and that "when the constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff up which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction".

Have any of you done any studying into the significance of this connection? and have any thoughts regarding what this "tower" was supposed to be? (a "tower" that the saints were too lazy to build")? and what is the relation of the Constitution to the "Tower" the Saints were supposed to build, if any?
All my opinions are tentative pending further data...

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Proud 2b Peculiar » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:16 pm

I have not studied that in that way. When I read it, it struck me deeply, several months ago, and it is what got me to get involved as I am.

I really don't want to say more then that in light of the fact that it has become very clear that I have people approaching me for anything and everything I say now......

I think that it is significant though. And I hope that the 12 are not the 12.
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby n8-r » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:29 pm

Think about what the purpose of the tower is. It is to put the person/s in a high place, a place where they are able to watch over the land, or the people of the land. So to equate that to modern day applications, such as home teaching, or our leaders watching over us. The Tower, IMO, would represent the medium by which one is enabled to watch over others. Perhaps callings, and offices in the Gospel. One could say " All is well in my family, we keep the commandments, why do we need home teachers?"

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Bircher » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:22 pm

we are commanded to tear the infiltrators off their (our) towers.
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby buffalo_girl » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:36 pm

Perhaps the 'tower' is the more elevated perspective we can be blessed with when we adhere to and live every commandment to the utmost of our abilities - always guided by the Holy Spirit, always abiding in the Love of God the Father through His Son, our personal Savior.

So many distractions in this world keep us from 'seeing' much further than our noses. If everything is going ok or at least 'going' in our various day-to-day tasks - who has time to look over the hedge?

D&C 45:57

57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be ..hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

D&C 88:67

67 And if your eye be single to my glory, your whole bodies shall be filled with light, and there shall be no darkness in you; and that body which is filled with light comprehendeth all things.

No doubt, fulfilling our callings is essential to building and retaining the vineyard.

It seems to me this passage is looking at what lies beyond the vineyard's surrounding protective structure.

...behold, the watchman upon the tower would have seen the enemy while he was yet afar off; and then ye could have made ready and kept the enemy from breaking down the hedge thereof, and saved my vineyard from the hands of the destroyer.

We aren't talking about HT or VT stats here. We are talking about the vineyard being laid waste 'from the hands of the destroyer'! There's only one 'destroyer' I know about, and I'm thinking he should never be allowed to breach the hedge.

That is a troubling thought, LC... Looks like some of the Elders of Israel are going to need to 'buckle up' for a scrap.

...gather together the residue of my servants, and take all the strength of mine house, which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age also among all my servants, who are the strength of mine house, save those only whom I have appointed to tarry; And go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; for it is mine; I have bought it with money. Therefore, get ye straightway unto my land; break down the walls of mine enemies; throw down their tower, and scatter their watchmen. And inasmuch as they gather together against you, avenge me of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land.

No, I'm thinking that is not about Home or Visiting Teaching...

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Proud 2b Peculiar » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:02 am

ah forget about silencing myself...

IN the other parables of the vineyard, it meant the earth.

This vineyard is a choice spot in the land, and that would be the US in my eyes.

Those on the towers are those that would guard this land, protect the liberty.

If liberty falls, the church does not exist in this land.

To me, this says that we have been called to stand up, climb the towers and uproot all those that are enemies to liberty, because they are enemies to the gospel of Jesus Christ by being such. And in order to do that, we must preach the gospel, and preach it in action. We stand up, we get involved, we educate the people, and we take the country back. As we do this, it destroys their strong holds, their power, and they crumble to the earth.

That is how I was impressed. To get up and defend the gospel through protecting the liberty of this nation. That it is my mission to do so, and that I was sent in this time because I will risk it all to save liberty, therefore protecting the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Darren » Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:27 am

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams


"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams


Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Alma 11: 24 ... thou lovest that lucre more than him.


The tower is the Goodness of the people.
The Constitution is an establishing instrument for goodness.
The betrayal of the constitution and the goodness of the people is the lusting for money.
We, as a people, fell asleep decades ago with dreams of getting Babylon's Money away from Babylon's Masters.
Now all we have to look forward to is the cleansing followed by a return and rebuilding of the constitution.
How much blood will have to be spilled to pay for the sins of these most recent generations, of LDS lusting after money?
"Work together by the Law," was a hope and dream of Presidents David O. McKay and many others. O ye fair ones, you were told to build a tower in Happy Valley Utah, but you sold the bricks off to the enemy.

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Telavian » Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:48 am

The verses preface the parable with the understanding that it is about the “Redemption of Zion.”
Therefore, something in the parable that was taken or destroyed would have to be Zion.

The servants were simply told to erect the tower and the hedge in order to defend the twelve olive trees that they planted.
The servants also knew that the tower was only useful in a wartime environment thus they also knew that war was possible and quite probable.
However, the servants failed because they didn't see the need in a time of peace to follow their master and build the defensive tower.
Therefore, the tower was taken and the olive trees were destroyed.

It is quite interesting to note that the servants rallied and retook the spot of ground and the tower.
If the tower itself is not Zion then by definition it is overlooking or protecting Zion.

There are many things that could fit this and this is simply a break down of what it could be.

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby buffalo_girl » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:04 pm

Wow! It's so good to have the Forum's engine up and running again! These are the kind of discussions that will motivate and direct our efforts, thanks to all of you!

We can make a difference where we are, but we do need the Lord's help in our efforts to alert those who are either slumbering or too frightened to open their eyes.

We visited with LDS friends in another state last week. They are a wonderful family. It's very difficult for them to 'see' beyond tv and radio 'conservative' talking heads. From their point of view, any information outside the controlled media is 'liberal' or 'communist' propaganda. It's very difficult to know exactly how to warn them about our 'awful situation'.

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby DayofAwakening » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:22 pm

The Tower was supposed to be a Watch tower to view the enemy while they were afar off. I believe a modern day 'watch tower' would have been a news service like like a CNN or Fox News. It would've been extremely expensive to build but we could have watch the politicians during Christmas breaks changing our Constitution by passing unratified ammendments and Federal Reserve Acts. We could further warn the Saints concerning the deceptions in war and promote truth and expose wickedness to a worldwide audience. It would be a broadcast "tower" to the world.

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby buffalo_girl » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:26 pm

That is how I was impressed. To get up and defend the gospel through protecting the liberty of this nation.

Without the 'liberty of this nation' we are in grave danger of losing the right to worship as we have. The only way I know to 'fight' is by getting involved in the local political process. In our area, even the small town governments are corrupted by having accepted federal funding for all sorts of 'programs'.

I'm not sure where to fight or even how to sound the alarm.

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby BrianM » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:49 pm

My thoughts on the tower are similar to those of 'Proud 2be Peculiar', 'Telavian' and 'DayofAwakening'...

Repeating in some of their words...

"Those on the towers are those that would guard this land, protect the liberty."
"If the tower itself is not Zion then by definition it is overlooking or protecting Zion."
"I believe a modern day 'watch tower' would have been a news service like like a CNN or Fox News"

I believe that it's entirely possible that the "tower" was supposed to be something similar to a news service - something created to learn of what the enemy was doing and then inform the Saints, such as what was going on in the government and with other enemies of the church and freedom.

At one time President McKay had W. Cleon Skousen write the book "The Naked Communist" and the Church began to have classes warning the members against communism... unfortunately it was too unpopular with the members and so it was discontinued.

It could have been the creation of an organization within the Church similar to the John Birch Society... or maybe it was something that was started like the Deseret News but never fulfilled its purpose of becoming a "great and high watch tower".

Both references mention that the foundation of the Tower was started but not finished... I don't know of any other references in which a prophet has mentioned this parable except from Joseph Smith in 1940... He never said what exactly it would be, except that it wasn't finished, only the foundation...
All my opinions are tentative pending further data...

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby buffalo_girl » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:35 pm

I'm having to rely on memory from one of my long ago BYU broadcasting classes, but I seem to recall that KSL was what was then known as a 'Clear Channel Station' frequency - one of a very few 'Clear Channel Stations' of the 'public' radio frequencies available over the airwaves (airwaves - referring to the entire spectrum of broadcast frequencies).

I recall feeling a sense of comfort knowing that the Church owned a 'Clear Channel Station'. I felt secure in the knowledge that whatever occurred in this country there would be a reliable source of information.

At night, I can still listen to KSL in North Dakota, although there isn't anything on it I wish to hear. As a teenager in Portland, Oregon I could pick up KSL's night jazz program. It was the best jazz program anywhere. I'm not sure any of the options available either then or now - other than Conference - are the best use of so powerful a tool.

It seems like 'The Tower' could well be a means of conveying essential information and truth. So...what happened?

Is the Bonneville Corporation still a part of the Church communications network?

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Proud 2b Peculiar » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:06 pm

The internet can and does reveal the hidden things of darkness and quickly. If the saints were engaged, the information could be spread in seconds. Evil would have a hard time doing much in secret if it was all being reported by the eyewitnesses.

They will destroy themselves with the help of those eyes reporting what they see and revealing what they know.

I just got back from a meeting tonight that was amazing.

There is a multi-party group effort and they are starting the Fearless voter organization. Their goal is to take down the R and D. They have all started to Unite for liberty and the Constitution. I think that CFL will be able to work with them, the RLC and JBS and many others. We need to unite quickly and work together for the things that we can agree on.

I am actually getting all excited all over again. :)
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby stan » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:23 pm

buffalo-girl wins! She was the first to state that the tower is absolute wisdom, love, glory, etc. perspective allowed/shared by the Holy Ghost. End of story. Joseph Smith gave a great hint when he came back to visit B, Young and said in effect to tell the people to be humble and faithful and keep the Spirit and it will lead you right, be careful and not turn away the still small voice and it will tell you what to do and where to go and yeald the fruits of the kingdom.
The B/M is replete in explaining how we get lazy when times are easy and do not do those things that will let us approach God. Elder Oaks - in conference once mentioned that generally we do not do those things... and we generally will not ever have that special closeness. But one of the best conf addresses on point was by F. Enzio Busche, or how ever you spell his name, when he said - why are we always trying and never winning? It is because we are not completely honest-absolutely honest, that honesty where we look into ourselves and see what the Spirit will share if we truely want, to see those parts of our nature that are not right and need changed, to be as Jesus teaches. A brief test - if we were clost to the Spirit, the Spirit would have eluminated to us when someone, at conference stated such an elevated and inspired testimony, the Spirit allowed him to stand with Joseph Smith in the Sacred Grove when the Father and Son appeared and he sat with the Saints in Kirtland when the temple was accepted and he received his covenants in Nauvoo and knelt at the cemerery in Winter Quarters when a loved one was buried and raise his hand to confirm B. Young as president of the Church and more...
How many thousands listened but did not hear, read but did not see - without the Spirit we are blind, or maybe better said - without the Spirit i am a blind fool.
Who was the conference speaker - we now know why he wrote the hymn Testimony - Loren C Dunn - April 2000 conference talk.
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Proud 2b Peculiar » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:05 pm

I posted this else where, but thought it was a good idea to put it here too.. this was spoken about 31 years ago...



Quote:
Some argue that since the world is presently engaged in the last tragic scenes of a drama which (as the Lord has revealed) must inevitably end in the destruction of all the kingdoms of men, it is hopeless to try to maintain (or restore) honesty, accountability, or effectiveness to one’s political system. Others maintain that the demands of active Church membership leave little time or energy for engaging in “active citizenship.” With the constant pressures of making a living, caring for a family, and almost daily Church responsibilities, how can one sandwich in participation in political activity such as delivering a petition or running a friend’s political campaign or seeking an office of civic or political service?


Quote:
For example, the instruction book on bicentennial observance sent to all American wards states, “Celebrating the 200th anniversary of America’s birth involves much more than a passive admiration for this country, it involves active rededication to the principles laid out by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.” The instructions admonish members to “help solve your own community problems and preserve your own freedoms that will allow the gospel to spread throughout the world.” (One Hundred and One Ideas; An Idea for Any Occasion—Including the Bicentennial, p. 2.)


Quote:
The Saints must be concerned with the maintenance of personal freedom, which the Lord has indicated is essential to individual salvation and exaltation.


Quote:
Bitter experience has shown that the best way to keep corrupt individuals from subverting constitutional and legal processes is for committed citizens to maintain a constant, careful surveillance over governmental activities, opposing individuals motivated only by selfish ambition in seeking public office. Although ancient and latter-day scriptures warn that increasing political violence and corruption will precede the millennium, Latter-day Saints must continue during this premillennial period to struggle to maintain the political freedoms essential to the spread and practice of the gospel.


Quote:
When one leaves the burden of active political participation to others, he loses the opportunity to affect directly many of the decisions that will shape his world. He abdicates a degree of control over his life and his community which he might otherwise have exercised. The Lord has often indicated his opposition to kingships and other autocratic forms of government that take the opportunity and responsibility for decision-making out of the hands of the people


Quote:
The temptation is strong to allow civic participation to become so totally overshadowed by day-to-day concerns that we never get beyond the “faithful voter” level of activity. In such circumstances, it might be wise to remind ourselves that no constitution or set of protective laws is self-executing. Guarantees of political freedom maintain their force only if citizens are willing to exercise that freedom in their own behalf. If men and women of character fail to participate in the political decisions that shape their lives, others with more selfish motives will inevitably rush in to fill the void.
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby hmscarrie » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:28 am

I do not believe the tower is a medium of communication, but the knowledge which must be communicated. The medium of communcation is useless if the people who are doing the communicating do not understand true principles. The tower enables us to recognize the advance of the enemy. We also know that the enemy operates in secret combinations, and that if the vineyard builders had seen the enemy they would not have said "we have no need of this tower." (As the quotes in the previous post show, most of us do nothing, and "suffer" the secret combinations to get above us. Most men are "more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by changing the forms to which they are accustomed.")

I believe the tower is a working knowledge of the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the principles of free enterprise, and the willingness to put that knowledge to work. "If men and women of character fail to participate in the political decisions that shape their lives, others with more selfish motives will inevitably rush in to fill the void." "the best way to keep corrupt individuals from subverting constitutional and legal processes is for committed citizens to maintain a constant, careful surveillance over governmental activities, opposing individuals motivated only by selfish ambition."

The word "surveillance" captures the essence of the watchtower. The vineyard builders' argument about the need for the tower was because they did not believe that the people in charge of the government needed such constant and careful surveillance.

Btw, I do not believe that "the enemy" is merely those who are motivated by "selfish ambition." Though such men certainly abound, "the enemy" is united in a belief that their way is right. Like the Lamanites, they believe they have the rights to the government, and "they do study to destroy the liberty of this people," that their rights to the government may be restored (as they suppose).

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Truth will Prevail » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:01 am

hmscarrie wrote:I do not believe the tower is a medium of communication, but the knowledge which must be communicated. The medium of communcation is useless if the people who are doing the communicating do not understand true principles. The tower enables us to recognize the advance of the enemy. We also know that the enemy operates in secret combinations, and that if the vineyard builders had seen the enemy they would not have said "we have no need of this tower." (As the quotes in the previous post show, most of us do nothing, and "suffer" the secret combinations to get above us. Most men are "more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by changing the forms to which they are accustomed.")

I believe the tower is a working knowledge of the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the principles of free enterprise, and the willingness to put that knowledge to work. "If men and women of character fail to participate in the political decisions that shape their lives, others with more selfish motives will inevitably rush in to fill the void." "the best way to keep corrupt individuals from subverting constitutional and legal processes is for committed citizens to maintain a constant, careful surveillance over governmental activities, opposing individuals motivated only by selfish ambition."

The word "surveillance" captures the essence of the watchtower. The vineyard builders' argument about the need for the tower was because they did not believe that the people in charge of the government needed such constant and careful surveillance.

Btw, I do not believe that "the enemy" is merely those who are motivated by "selfish ambition." Though such men certainly abound, "the enemy" is united in a belief that their way is right. Like the Lamanites, they believe they have the rights to the government, and "they do study to destroy the liberty of this people," that their rights to the government may be restored (as they suppose).



I take this as, the Tower is the Constitution or the knowledge of it (Knowledge = Power) and that knowledge acts as a Tower so if you know the principles of freedom then you can see the enemy afar off when they say things that are in conflict with constitutional principles. Remember anything more or less than the Constitution cometh of evil, the Tower is the principles of the Constitution ("know your constitution!") The people do not want to know all about whats in the constitution because they have no need and then the enemy, Gadiantons, have taken the constitution (tower) and the Lord is commanding US to take it back! The Lord asks for his strong servants, young men and middle age?? This is the youth that have been held back for 6000 years! Think on it carefuly. "Young men and middle age servants, the old ones had their chance and they messed it up in the Pres Mckay and Pres Bensons times, they had no need to study the constitution (tower) and refused to listen to Mckay and Benson (save a few). Now it has been taken over by the evil men scheming to change our Tower (constitution) to their own likeing! This is what i take from all this, now is our time, this is our moment to take back the Tower.

I also know there is alot of "endure to the end" to be done, John the revelator talks of the great patience of the Saints. Just a thought.
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Proud 2b Peculiar » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:48 am

3 Ne. 21: 12
12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.



3 Ne. 20: 16
16 Then shall ye, who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them; and ye shall be in the midst of them who shall be many; and ye shall be among them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, and as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he goeth through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.



http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/15/29#29 (the entire Chapter is a help)


Micah 5: 8
8 ¶ And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.



Isa. 31: 4
4 For thus hath the Lord spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the Lord of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.



Isa. 5: 29
29 Their roaring shall be like a lion, they shall roar like young lions: yea, they shall roar, and lay hold of the prey, and shall carry it away safe, and none shall deliver it.


4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.
5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.
6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full fend of all nations;
7 That the cry of the saints, and of the blood of the saints, shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, from the earth, to be avenged of their enemies.
8 Wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come; for behold, it cometh quickly, saith the Lord. Amen.


65 And cause that the remnants of Jacob, who have been cursed and smitten because of their transgression, be converted from their wild and savage condition to the fulness of the everlasting gospel;
66 That they may lay down their weapons of bloodshed, and cease their rebellions.
67 And may all the scattered remnants of Israel, who have been driven to the ends of the earth, come to a knowledge of the truth, believe in the Messiah, and be redeemed from oppression, and rejoice before thee.


10 We are to understand that the scattered remnants are exhorted to return to the Lord from whence they have fallen; which if they do, the promise of the Lord is that he will speak to them, or give them revelation. See the 6th, 7th, and 8th verses. The bands of her neck are the curses of God upon her, or the remnants of Israel in their scattered condition among the Gentiles.


http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/113/10#10

37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall come, and he shall send his angels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the remainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby buffalo_girl » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:17 am

the old ones had their chance and they messed it up in the Pres Mckay and Pres Bensons times,

Gosh! I'm an 'old one' - even a woman. I do all in my power to counter the evil corrupting and destroying our liberty. I also know that if we think this can be mano a mano against those in power we will be sorely disappointed - unless, of course, we are totally taken off the grid by one of those EMF pulses we hear rumor of.

I've prayed a lot about how to confront the evil 'above us'. My answer was found in 2 Chronicles 20, The Books of Joel, D&C 101:75-101, D&C 105, and yes, P2bP's scripture passages. That one looks like an invasion from Central & South America. Could be...although I'm not sure where that will leave us 'pale faced' folk even though we are 'righteous'.

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Proud 2b Peculiar » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:24 pm

And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles


Who is that? Are there people who know who they are? Are they the descendants of Jacob? And elders or people of Israel around here?

There will be righteous and wicked descendants that will fulfill these purposes I think, in many different ways, and some will not even know they are doing it... IMHO

Some will uphold and defend the law and use the law to do it, and others, well they will be the wicked that cleanse the wicked and then are converted... and repent.
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Truth will Prevail » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:27 am

buffalo_girl wrote:
the old ones had their chance and they messed it up in the Pres Mckay and Pres Bensons times,

Gosh! I'm an 'old one' - even a woman. I do all in my power to counter the evil corrupting and destroying our liberty. I also know that if we think this can be mano a mano against those in power we will be sorely disappointed - unless, of course, we are totally taken off the grid by one of those EMF pulses we hear rumor of.

I've prayed a lot about how to confront the evil 'above us'. My answer was found in 2 Chronicles 20, The Books of Joel, D&C 101:75-101, D&C 105, and yes, P2bP's scripture passages. That one looks like an invasion from Central & South America. Could be...although I'm not sure where that will leave us 'pale faced' folk even though we are 'righteous'.



I think you missed the last part out??? (SAVE A FEW) "Young men and middle age servants, the old ones had their chance and they messed it up in the Pres Mckay and Pres Bensons times, they had no need to study the constitution (tower) and refused to listen to Mckay and Benson (save a few)
"Watchmen!! what of the night?? is the cry of the faithful!"

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby hmscarrie » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:19 am

The following is from the CES manual online, http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/dc-in/dc-in-101.htm
D&C 101:44–64. What Does This Parable Refer To?
“It would seem that the parable is to be interpreted in this way: the nobleman is the Lord, whose choice land in His vineyard is Zion in Missouri. The places where the Saints live in Zion are the olive trees. The servants are the Latter-day Saint settlers, and the watchmen are their officers in the Church. While yet building in Zion, they become at variance with each other and do not build the tower or Temple whose site had been dedicated as early as August 3, 1831. Had they built it as directed, it would have been a spiritual refuge for them, for from it the Lord’s watchmen could have seen by revelation the movements of the enemy from afar. This foreknowledge would have saved them and their hard work when the enemy made his assault.

“But the Saints in Missouri were slothful, lax, and asleep. The enemy came, and the Missouri persecutions were the result. The Lord’s people were scattered and much of their labors wasted. The Almighty rebuked His people, as we have already seen, but He commanded one of His servants (vs. 55), Joseph Smith (103:21), to gather the ‘strength of Mine house’ and rescue His lands and possessions gathered against them.

“Subsequently, the Prophet and his brethren in the famous Zion’s Camp did go to Missouri in 1834 in an attempt to carry out the terms of the parable. Before they went, additional revelation was received (see 103:21–28) concerning the redemption of Zion. The brethren were instructed to try to buy land in Missouri, not to use force; and if the enemy came against them, they were to bring a curse upon them. Zion was not redeemed at that time but we may look for it in the not-too-distant future. . . . It will be redeemed when the Lord wills it.” (Sperry, Compendium, pp. 521–22.)

Though Joseph Smith followed the Lord’s instructions to gather together the “strength of my house” (D&C 103:22) by organizing Zion’s Camp to redeem Zion, the Lord’s purpose in sending them and His will concerning the redemption of Zion were not fully understood by His people. The redemption of Zion did not take place at that time. When the servant in the parable asked when the land would be possessed, the Lord responded, “When I will” (D&C 101:60).

The parable further states that all things will be fulfilled “after many days” (v. 62), which indicates that a long period of time would pass before Zion would be redeemed. The redemption of Zion still had not taken place even after the Saints had been expelled from Missouri and from Nauvoo. The Lord then told Brigham Young that “Zion shall be redeemed in mine own due time” (D&C 136:18). The redemption of Zion (meaning, the city of New Jerusalem in Missouri) is still future, although it is much closer now than it was when the Saints first sought to regain their inheritance there.

The time of Zion’s redemption is referred to in Doctrine and Covenants 58:44; 105:15, 37. Compare the parable in Doctrine and Covenants 101 with those given in Isaiah 5:1–7 and Matthew 21:33–46.


This gives a perfectly satisfactory understanding of these verses, and I am asking myself, why do we need to give any other interpretation to them? If I re-interpret the tower to have reference to government, might I not be guilty of wresting the scriptures to support an unfounded chain of conclusions?

I do believe that we need to educate ourselves about government and keep a vigilant eye over those who would use it for ends other than liberty, and I believe this is a scripturally supported view. But I feel a measure of caution about publicly endorsing an interpretation of scripture, lest I be found trying to put words in the Lord's mouth. This parable may well apply to more than the situation at hand when it was given. I just don't want to be dogmatic about it. Until the prophet weighs in on the matter, it is a matter of private revelation, and any discussion here is an exploration of an idea.

I particularly feel wary about the analogy leading to a supposition that the 12 olive trees represent the 12 apostles. It would be too easy to turn that into criticism of the present 12.

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Proud 2b Peculiar » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:56 am

I do not think that anyone had that in mind at all as far as Criticism. My statement was in relation of the enemy scattering the 12 and they not being able to be on the land of Zion for a season.

All of America is Zion, so I was thinking that it is the entire nation.

I am interested to know who it was and when that interpretation was given?

Because, you cannot protect Zion without using the laws of God.
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby buffalo_girl » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:04 pm

After rereading the verses and following the footnotes I pretty much came to the same conclusion as the CES interpretation as it refers to the Missouri settlement. Parables, however, seem to always stand on their own as a 'type and shadow' of other events or situations.

We can all agree that our situation right now is 'awful'. Increasingly, on the internet various 'patriots' and pastors of other churches are 'warning' those who are awake to 'flee' the United States. Today, I saw a warning to not only leave the US, but to move outside the North and South American Continents in order to be out of danger.

If we choose to remain here then we had best be ready for whatever comes. The only way I know to do so is by staying close to the Lord and being worthy to always have His Spirit to be with me. That's about the extent of it. We must each have our individual 'tower' built and our lamps with reserves of oil. It is always good to know which people in one's family and community will be there for us in any and all situations and that each one of us is prepared to be relied upon by others.

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Proud 2b Peculiar » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:11 pm

agreed.
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby hmscarrie » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:56 pm

Thanks, I was just being cautious about the interpretation. But when the Lord speaks in parables, it probably is because he intends more than one meaning anyway.

I really love this quote: "the best way to keep corrupt individuals from subverting constitutional and legal processes is for committed citizens to maintain a constant, careful surveillance over governmental activities, opposing individuals motivated only by selfish ambition."

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby Proud 2b Peculiar » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:01 pm

I wish it wasn't so, but history does tend to repeat itself, and I see it repeating with the section about the Civil war and this particular parable.
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby buffalo_girl » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:02 am

The "Parable of the Tower" has been a major topic in our household this past few days. There are so many aspects of it that seem to apply to our current state of affairs in this country and so many aspects that seem to apply in our personal lives, as well. The servants' thought that money spent on building the tower was wasted and could be better employed by investing it 'with the exchangers' (v. 49) rang a bell - a bell not unlike the one we hear from Wall St. when things aren't going so well.

Anyway, while working at the temple in Bismarck last evening it occurred to me that these temples are the Tower. When asked, "When shall these things be?", the Lord's answer is, "When I will; go ye straightway, and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you,".

And, "And his servant went straightway, and did all things whatsoever his lord commanded him; and after many days all things were fulfilled."

Perhaps, when we make the Lord's work a 'prompt' and willing priority in our lives we will be better able to hear and heed additional 'commandments' in our effort to 'avenge [the Lord] of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land'.

This, "I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land" is a sweet promise.

We need the assertive strength and energy of the 'warriors, young men, and the middle aged', but every one of us can also be working in the Tower as often as possible in order to receive increasing insight, vision, and guidance in how to 'break down the walls of mine enemies; throw down their tower, and scatter their watchmen.'

Could this be Zion's Camp in our own time?

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Postby stan » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:51 am

buffalo-girl and others
There was no response to the test that was suggested in my earlier post. Oh well.
Briefly stated, as a result to a prayer, in 1960 God called a young boy to awake to His will. He gave the boy some instruction. In 1965 the boy was given two missions, the latter was to "seek to the presidency." That one has spent 48 years doing his best to learn all available to be best prepaired. The founding fathers, J. Smith, McKay, J.R. Clark, Kimball, Benson have all been great aids but the Holy Spirit has been the source that has filled his life with wonder. The boy is now old and will probably, God willing, make the attempt in the next general election. All this is more fully explained at stanwarnerdotcom.
God bless all of you,
Stan


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