Pornography addiction and divorce

[marc]

Chive, take all the time you need now, today, to fix you. Put all your sins, all your demons, all that afflicts you on the altar. Plead hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, yearly to the Lord to remove this burden. He has the power to do so. It will take time, but every little step forward that you make will be worth it. It won't be easy and it won't be quick, but it will be worth it. There is a movie called Fireproof, which I think is really good and worth watching. Find it and watch it. It will give you some perspective. The circumstances in the movie are different than yours, but there are still some lessons to take away. It's not Oscar material, but it gets the message across.

Once you have fixed you and reflect Christ's image in your countenance, you will be ready to lift others up, even your ex wife, if she needs it and even if she never takes you back. Patience, longsuffering, charity, take a long time to make things work, but time is all you have. Good luck, brother and my prayers are with you.

[Chive123]

So no kidding, porn use is addictive and has to be overcome. I don't think anyone is saying it isn't. It's well known that it's bad for the brain, and even causes forms of social retardation. ( you get completely withdrawn into a fantasy world )

However, I have noticed that women who find their husband viewing pornography aren't worried about him losing the spirit, the power of the Priesthood, or his eternal life or family. They tend to be just personally offended, really jealous, and feel like the church should beat him up for it. They aren't worried about him keeping his temple covenants for his own sake, they just are angry about what they think his porn use "means" to them.

Women are always under a mistaken impression that if a man relates to a woman sexually, it means somehow that they are being replaced. Men all admit that sex(for them) is not about romance, emotional connection, or commitment. And it certainly isn't a declaration of love. Yet women continue to act like it is. Of course, marital vows demand that sexual acts are only expressed within the bonds of marraige, but this is so that children are born in a family unit.

There is no inherent love, commitment, romance, or any other thing women value, in sex alone. Right guys? In a way it is perfectly normal for a man, or boy to look at a naked woman. It's also perfectly natural for a woman to enjoy reading a hot and steamy romance novel. In a way this just shows that men and women like each other and find each other attractive. Good. But both of these activities get destructive, because one sexy romance novel leads to another, like one porn viewing leads to another, becoming addictive and consuming a great deal of time that could have been used to grow and enhance their own real relationships. ( I have seen women with so many romance novels and magazines, they lined at least one room in the home all the way up the walls, or were so stacked up all over the family room or boxed up, that you could hardly walk.) It lowers self esteem and self worth. I mean come on, Chive 123 would never have gone for a girl like his ex, no matter how pretty she was, if he didn't have a low opinion of himself. Women who absorb themselves into romance novels and movies (look how popular the Shades of Grey Series is ) don't develop into the kind of woman who could attract their dream man. Fantasizing means you aren't working.

Passionflower that is exactly what I am talking about. You hit the nail on the head! I used to watch The Bachelor with my ex wife. Because she watches it religiously and has since the 1st season. I remember pretending to enjoy it. The the other wives in the room would hang on to every word that the bachelor was saying. The would groan and gauck over the romantic scenes. Especially when one of the contestants would confess their love for the bachelor. :ymblushing: This made me feel very uncomfortable. I would pretend to enjoy it but usually I would make rude sarcastic comments about how stupid it was. I now despise TV shows like that. I wont date a girl that watches it. I never mentioned to my ex how much it bothered me. Because why would I? It was an innocent show that came on ABC. It wasn't evil. Its not even on cable! She was in high School when it first aired. She hasn't missed a season since. Without a father figure in her life and a mother that basically taught her that men are inherently evil, I often wonder if this had anything to do with the way she is. Since we have been divorced she has changed her appearance and is being followed around by men acting like puppy dogs. So in a way she may have gotten what she wanted. But I see right throw it. She is a miserable person. I am almost glad that I felt jealous over a stupid TV show. I feel like I got a taste of how she felt about my porn addiction. Only she must have felt it 10 fold. I am not trying to turn the tables on her. This post is about me and my porn issue struggles. But I have to look at my situation from every angle. Just like divorce is never 100 percent one persons fault. There is always two sides to the coin. After I divorced I dated a very active lds girl. She was the gospel doctrine teacher in her ward. She has a homosexual brother that she is very close with. He went on a mission. When he came home he altered his lifestyle to cater to his sexual preference. Her parents also had a thriving long lasting marriage. Even though I was scared to do it I told her about my pornography habits and that I was trying to overcome them. She was very non judgmental. We kept dating after that for 6 months. We then broke it off for nonrelated reasons. I still consider her a very good friend. Which brings me to another LDS girl that I dated..I told her after the 3rd or 4th date that I struggle with pornography (keep in mind we were hitting it off). She responded with " I am sorry I don't date guys that have or EVER had that problem. I sais " Ok that's fine, but you are the type of girl that men are going to lie to. Good luck finding ANY man LDS or not that hasn't had a porn issue in their life at one point". That to me was a blow to everything I am trying to accomplish. It wasn't so much the addiction itself, but the hiding it that hurt my ex wife the most. So when I encounter women like the one I was honest with and she shoves it back in my face with a comment like that, it can be very discouraging. I don't know who brainwashed her. I prays she finds that perfect guy that has never had a problem. But I think she might be setting herself up for failure.

[Chive123]

Chive - fish or cut bait. Decide on a path and LIVE IT.

The Hobson's choice you are saddling yourself with is reconciling with your wife. There is a significant chance you will find happiness in life without her. In order to be truly happy, you will have to conquer your inner demons. However, you should do that for yourself, and not as bait to reconcile with her. You'll need to rely on the Saviour for forgiveness for your sins (just as we ALL do) and for strength against future transgressions. Give your sins to Him and carry on. It's reasonably easy - just ask Him to relieve you of the burden and fortify you in the future. Good luck brother. It sounds easy, and in times of strength it is easy. During times of oppression and temptation, it can be hard, but nothing worthwhile is easy. If you screw up, repent again. Eventually you'll get over it. I'd give up the hard / prescription drugs, smoking and hard alcohol, too. Those things can cloud the mind and dull the spirit, and make it easier to fall back into old habits. You can do it, with a little help from your Friend.

Thanks Obrien, I never really had a Word of Wisdom addiction. That was more of a social activity / pain number. I have given up those things and I am not tempted by them now. But I do keep my guard up.

[Obrien]

Chive - fish or cut bait. Decide on a path and LIVE IT.

The Hobson's choice you are saddling yourself with is reconciling with your wife. There is a significant chance you will find happiness in life without her. In order to be truly happy, you will have to conquer your inner demons. However, you should do that for yourself, and not as bait to reconcile with her. You'll need to rely on the Saviour for forgiveness for your sins (just as we ALL do) and for strength against future transgressions. Give your sins to Him and carry on. It's reasonably easy - just ask Him to relieve you of the burden and fortify you in the future. Good luck brother. It sounds easy, and in times of strength it is easy. During times of oppression and temptation, it can be hard, but nothing worthwhile is easy. If you screw up, repent again. Eventually you'll get over it. I'd give up the hard / prescription drugs, smoking and hard alcohol, too. Those things can cloud the mind and dull the spirit, and make it easier to fall back into old habits. You can do it, with a little help from your Friend.

Thanks Obrien, I never really had a Word of Wisdom addiction. That was more of a social activity / pain number. I have given up those things and I am not tempted by them now. But I do keep my guard up.

Sweet, you're 2/3rds of the way there!

[Nan]

Did you really just say that you wouldn't date a girl who watches the bachelor and then stated how offensive it was for a girl to state she wouldn't date someone with a pornography problem? Really ?

[Chive123]

Did you really just say that you wouldn't date a girl who watches the bachelor and then stated how offensive it was for a girl to state she wouldn't date someone with a pornography problem? Really ?

I never said that I wouldn't date a girl that has been exposed to or has watched it in the past The Bachelor. Are you saying that the Bachelor is as addictive as pornography? A TV show is more addictive than heroine? If that's the case then I retract. Because then I would show more compassion and empathy.

[JohnnyL]

Or the married guy that struggles with his pornography addiction. He is told that it is a wicked and vile sin (which it it). But his wife can get together with her friends and watch TV shows like The Bachelor. I have witnessed first hand how some women react to that TV show. The fantasy of the perfect life with a handsome millionaire starts to become a possible reality. They start to think to themselves "I wonder if I divorce me mediocre husband if I could land a sweet, handsome, and rich guy like that on the TV screen (after all it is "Reality TV").

I totally agree with you here, and have written the church about it. I hope more people write, too. ;)
.

JohnnyL, how do you write to the church about something like this? And without sounding like you are "counseling" the church leadership? And what happened when you did?[/quote]
I just write to someone I feel might be wanting to receive it, maybe someone who spoke about it in the last conference, etc. I share a few things, share some research (many leaders don't have the time to do any research outside of mainstream media and many don't know anyone who knows certain things), share my experiences, share my point of view, reason with them, ask questions, share others' points of view, ask that the leaders think about it or something like that. I rarely have written about really deep doctrinal mysteries, etc. I have no desire to correct them in letters, as there really is no correcting to do. There is a lot of sharing and enriching and thinking, I hope.

Interestingly, I have gotten a few responses to letters--sometimes a very little in-depth, honest, and personal--even when I ask the brethren they don't need to send one.

I think one or two letters; and that relationship letter which I sent to the Relief Society presidency (I don't remember to whom, it was a while ago).

[freedomforall]

Read the book "Putting on the Armor of God: How to Win Your Battles with Satan by Steven A. Cramer. Here is a man who used porno, hit rock bottom, was excommunicated and considered suicide as the only way out. No one can use willpower or self will to overcome porno. Falling is commonplace for those attempting to use sheer willpower. Also, if porno use is one's favorite sin, overcoming is even more difficult. Bottom line, one has to really want to overcome, and one has to put trust in the Lord that He can and will help with the participation of the guilty party.
Anyway, check out what Bro Cramer, AKA Floyd Curtis went through and how he overcame.

Who knows, it just might be the answer.

[Fiannan]

Would someone please tell me what they define as "Porn addiction?"

Please, I really am curious.

I wonder though...since women are now a huge market for porn (every woman I have heard say they went to see 50 Shades of Grey said they were upset it was lacking in porn scenes) I assume there are men who discover history files in their wives account that they forgot to erase. That said, why do so few men make an issue of their wives looking at porn? And why do many women make a fuss over it? I speculate that women are fearful of their place in the man's life, especially if they are stay-at-home-mothers, as he is the source of their income as well as (in conservative religions) her status in her religious circle. Some women may actually believe that if their hubby is looking at porn he may lose interest in her, and run off with a younger woman. Actually, I doubt women have to worry in that respect. If a woman's fat, middle-aged, boring husband is looking at porn he is very, very unlikely to have any of the desirable traits necessary to get a beautiful woman half his age; and come on, how many of these men would want to have a woman like that anyway? He is as unlikely to run off with a porn star as the average woman who reads or watches 50 Shades is going to meet up with a twenty-something billionaire who wants to...well, you know the plot.

I knew a Catholic couple who had been married for 50 years and raised a bunch of kids. He still worked and would sometimes go with the younger men to the strip club. She once commented to me that if any of those young women wanted to steal him and his wrinkled behind they were welcome to him. Of course she was being realistic, there was no way he would leave his wife. Yes, they had a very happy marriage. Now do I support porn or stripping? Nope! But I also do not support alcohol, but I would never advise a person to leave their husband or wife if the spouse occasionally had a glass of wine with a meal.

[Fiannan]

Just saw this linked at Drudge: http://www.vocativ.com/news/205435/stud ... -isnt-real" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems that porn addiction just does not exist -- I would speculate that it is a symptom of OCD, or a guilt-complex reaction. Still, it is not accurate to say people caught looking at porn are addicted.

[AI2.0]

Would someone please tell me what they define as "Porn addiction?"

Please, I really am curious.

I wonder though...since women are now a huge market for porn (every woman I have heard say they went to see 50 Shades of Grey said they were upset it was lacking in porn scenes)

Maybe the problem is the women you know. I don't know ANY woman (including myself) who read or went to see that movie. I don't have female friends or acquaintances who enjoy that sort of thing. I find that you consistently make these kinds of generalizations which are usually lacking in any sense of real world experience.

I assume there are men who discover history files in their wives account that they forgot to erase. That said, why do so few men make an issue of their wives looking at porn?

Maybe because it is much rarer for women to develop this kind of addiction. And we have no reason to believe that men would be okay with their wives looking at this crap either.

And why do many women make a fuss over it? I speculate that women are fearful of their place in the man's life, especially if they are stay-at-home-mothers, as he is the source of their income as well as (in conservative religions) her status in her religious circle. Some women may actually believe that if their hubby is looking at porn he may lose interest in her, and run off with a younger woman. Actually, I doubt women have to worry in that respect. If a woman's fat, middle-aged, boring husband is looking at porn he is very, very unlikely to have any of the desirable traits necessary to get a beautiful woman half his age; and come on, how many of these men would want to have a woman like that anyway? He is as unlikely to run off with a porn star as the average woman who reads or watches 50 Shades is going to meet up with a twenty-something billionaire who wants to...well, you know the plot.

I am going to assume that you have no idea how hurtful your comments are to women, especially those who are burdened with a spouse addicted to pornography. Your comments are shallow, flippant, and lacking in compassion or empathy for something that brings a lot of real misery to the husband/wife relationship and can affect children as well.

I knew a Catholic couple who had been married for 50 years and raised a bunch of kids. He still worked and would sometimes go with the younger men to the strip club. She once commented to me that if any of those young women wanted to steal him and his wrinkled behind they were welcome to him. Of course she was being realistic, there was no way he would leave his wife. Yes, they had a very happy marriage. Now do I support porn or stripping? Nope! But I also do not support alcohol, but I would never advise a person to leave their husband or wife if the spouse occasionally had a glass of wine with a meal.

LDS people hold to a higher standard, we do not attend strip clubs and we believe that husbands and wives should be faithful and 'cleave' only to each other--physically and emotionally. Men who view pornography lose the spirit in their lives. It impedes the ability of the spirit to guide them as they lead their home and family--they are unable to do this in righteousness. They bring an evil force into their homes and drive a wedge between themselves and their wives. If they allow this to be a habit, they slowly erode their worthiness to exercise priesthood and when their wives are aware of their choices, it erodes the loving bond between husband and wife and then. I hope that you will recognize that this is not something to be dismissed--that is the worldly way of looking at this--a world that ignores God and has no knowledge or understanding of Priesthood and men's role in the family.

[freedomforall]

Just saw this linked at Drudge: http://www.vocativ.com/news/205435/stud ... -isnt-real" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems that porn addiction just does not exist -- I would speculate that it is a symptom of OCD, or a guilt-complex reaction. Still, it is not accurate to say people caught looking at porn are addicted.

What about the second time, or the third, etc?
Some people, maybe rarely, can get pretty high on one beer. And some people can work in a bar and never, ever drink anything alcoholic.
Porno has an attraction geared to stir sexual arousement to a point of no return. The carnally minded can't get enough of it. Fantasizing increases. Libido runs out of control. But, ......no, porno is not addictive. Right! Tell that to Steven A Cramer or anyone else struggling with or have struggled with its use. Then there is the associated guilt, pain, torment, unbroken promises, self loathing, spiritual bondage, thoughts of suicide and desires for living in seclusion because one can't face people and look them straight in the eyes, fearing that the other person can read your mind and discover your awful secret.

[Fiannan]

Maybe the problem is the women you know. I don't know ANY woman (including myself) who read or went to see that movie. I don't have female friends or acquaintances who enjoy that sort of thing. I find that you consistently make these kinds of generalizations which are usually lacking in any sense of real world experience.

You realize what you are saying here? You appear to live in a sheltered social circle. The movie "50 Shades of Grey," originally a fan fiction of "Twilight" has had millions upon millions of readers of the book series as well as women going in to see the movie. Call my observations "generalizations" if you like but if it did not have a huge female fan base why are stores stockpiling the books and DVD of the series?

My teen daughters have noted that many of the females in their classes have seen the movie or read the book, and they go to an academic-oriented private school. In fact many of these girls were given copies of the book by their moms! Oh, and you are aware of the fact that when the movie came out it even was playing in Orem, Utah right?

Maybe because it is much rarer for women to develop this kind of addiction. And we have no reason to believe that men would be okay with their wives looking at this crap either.

Tell me where in the DSM that this "addiction" is covered. Psychology does not recognize this condition, sorry, that is just the way it is. Of course one can develop compulsions but those are symptoms of deeper issues than a man or woman looking at dirty movies. And since 1/3 of all viewers of online porn are women (there has even been an increase since 50 Shades came out of women visiting BDSM sites) we can assume that men find out their wives are looking at the stuff - but don't make a big deal over it. Or are women just better at erasing their history folders or using a VPN program?

I am going to assume that you have no idea how hurtful your comments are to women, especially those who are burdened with a spouse addicted to pornography. Your comments are shallow, flippant, and lacking in compassion or empathy for something that brings a lot of real misery to the husband/wife relationship and can affect children as well.

No intent to hurt anyone, just explaining this phenomena using standard evolutionary psychology. A further note, I would also speculate that there is a socio-economic factor involved as well. I would assume that it is far less common for upper-income women, especially those with income of their own, to threaten their husbands with divorce over this sort of thing. I believe that economic insecurity can heighten a perceived threat to a relationship whether it is justified or not.

Finally though, I do not condone pornography as it necessitates men and women to allow themselves to be filmed engaging in fornication or adultery for pay. It is a moral issue, and rarely involves psychological addiction. Just saying.

[a_member]

I love this scripture, among many others of course:

29 And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.

30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?

31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

source: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/luke/ ... ang=eng#28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One thing that I dislike is the notion that being Mormon somehow makes a person different than other normal humans. I look at church as a hospital, and every one there is sick in some way and needs help. As a normal human who needs help because I'm sick myself, I appreciate that the Lord understands who I am and why I try to live the gospel. And, that in so attempting I'm going to need help. Just as Jesus spent quite a bit of time with "publicans and sinners", He will spend time with us as we struggle with our own sicknesses. As I understand things it's His purpose to help us live His gospel, not just tell us the rules and then expect us to do everything ourselves. These verses, in my view anyways, make that intention on His part explicit.

[light-one]

Would someone please tell me what they define as "Porn addiction?"

Please, I really am curious.

I wonder though...since women are now a huge market for porn (every woman I have heard say they went to see 50 Shades of Grey said they were upset it was lacking in porn scenes) I assume there are men who discover history files in their wives account that they forgot to erase.

If a man (or woman) ever looks at his/her spouses phone, laptop, computer, tablet, or whatever, looking for history or recent activity of any kind, that person is a very sick individual and has far deeper issues that porn. This indicates a complete lack of trust. If there is no trust, why even be married?

[AI2.0]

You realize what you are saying here? You appear to live in a sheltered social circle. The movie "50 Shades of Grey," originally a fan fiction of "Twilight" has had millions upon millions of readers of the book series as well as women going in to see the movie. Call my observations "generalizations" if you like but if it did not have a huge female fan base why are stores stockpiling the books and DVD of the series?

My teen daughters have noted that many of the females in their classes have seen the movie or read the book, and they go to an academic-oriented private school. In fact many of these girls were given copies of the book by their moms! Oh, and you are aware of the fact that when the movie came out it even was playing in Orem, Utah right?

Why is it that you attempt to justify LDS men's pornography by pointing to and generalizing about women reading or viewing 50 Shades of Grey? I'm not naive, I am aware of the book and it's popularity among non-LDS. While Twilight was certainly popular among LDS women (I did not read it, though) I have no first hand experience with my LDS women friends that any have read or seen the 50 shades movie, because the graphic sexual nature of the book is well known. But why have you even brought that into the discussion? Since when is someone else's bad acts an excuse for others' bad acts?
If you don't think pornography viewing is a problem, come out and say it, but don't try to rationalize this by comparing an LDS man compulsively viewing naked women engaging in graphic sexual acts which they hide from their wives and others to non-LDS women's prurient interest in reading graphic romance novels. I agree that the number of women who view pornograhy is growing, most likely because pornography is so easy to access, I'm sure children viewing pornography is rising for the same reason--however, that is a topic for another discussion.

Tell me where in the DSM that this "addiction" is covered. Psychology does not recognize this condition, sorry, that is just the way it is. Of course one can develop compulsions but those are symptoms of deeper issues than a man or woman looking at dirty movies. And since 1/3 of all viewers of online porn are women (there has even been an increase since 50 Shades came out of women visiting BDSM sites) we can assume that men find out their wives are looking at the stuff - but don't make a big deal over it. Or are women just better at erasing their history folders or using a VPN program?

Since when did the church ever care what the DSM or the American Psychological Assoc. says????? Why the *** should I or you care what THEY think is a disorder??????
Look Fiannan, if you don't think pornography viewing is a problem, just be honest about it and say it. Stop hiding behind this crap you keep throwing out that has nothing to do with LDS men and compulsive pornography viewing.

No intent to hurt anyone, just explaining this phenomena using standard evolutionary psychology. A further note, I would also speculate that there is a socio-economic factor involved as well. I would assume that it is far less common for upper-income women, especially those with income of their own, to threaten their husbands with divorce over this sort of thing. I believe that economic insecurity can heighten a perceived threat to a relationship whether it is justified or not.

Finally though, I do not condone pornography as it necessitates men and women to allow themselves to be filmed engaging in fornication or adultery for pay. It is a moral issue, and rarely involves psychological addiction. Just saying.

You should be familiar with the definition of 'addiction': "A state characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences."
That pretty much characterizes men (or women) who continue to view pornography even though they feel terrible about it, want to stop, know it is causing damage to their loved ones and themselves, yet they continue to do it. Whether or not the APA recognizes it doesn't much matter to me either--I think they've bowed to political and social pressure in a number of decisions they've made over the years.

You can try to look at this from a sterile, clinical position, but others have to live with the real life damage. Your answer seems to be to tell women that they are making a big fuss over nothing and that they ought to get with the program--other women are enjoying pornography and if they'd admit that it's just a human phenomena, there will be no problem in the marriage. I guess on some levels, you are right. Ignore the problem or join in so it is no longer only one spouse's problem.

But you are ignoring the very REAL damage which comes to an LDS priesthood holder (who is held to a higher standard because he has more enlightenment than other men) spiritually when he indulges in this compulsion. It takes it's toll on the man in many ways and it certainly influences his relationship with his wife, not to mention her mental and emotional health when she finds out what he's been hiding and the very serious implications it has on their marital bond. I have no reason to believe that if the tables were turned and a husband finds out that his wife has this problem, he too, would be devastated.

I do not believe divorce is the answer, I believe men and women need real tools to help them overcome this serious threat to their marriage. I think that is what the church is trying to do, but YOU and others who promote this idea that it is overblown and it is the wife's problem are undermining God's commands that men and women be virtuous and moral.

You should study some of the talks given in General Conference on this subject and maybe you can come to understand why Heavenly Father would warn us of this problem (and Satan tells the world it is not).

[Fiannan]

Would someone please tell me what they define as "Porn addiction?"

Please, I really am curious.

I wonder though...since women are now a huge market for porn (every woman I have heard say they went to see 50 Shades of Grey said they were upset it was lacking in porn scenes) I assume there are men who discover history files in their wives account that they forgot to erase.

If a man (or woman) ever looks at his/her spouses phone, laptop, computer, tablet, or whatever, looking for history or recent activity of any kind, that person is a very sick individual and has far deeper issues that porn. This indicates a complete lack of trust. If there is no trust, why even be married?

I suspect this story is made up but whatever, it illustrates that the Church is so caught up with this issue that apparently it justifies sneaking into someone's computer files to check to make sure they are not accessing porn:

https://www.lds.org/liahona/2006/08/my- ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Within only a few weeks, my husband, sick with the flu, went to bed, leaving his computer on. As I started to shut it down, I suddenly felt I should check it. There was the pornography.

[AI2.0]

Would someone please tell me what they define as "Porn addiction?"

Please, I really am curious.

I wonder though...since women are now a huge market for porn (every woman I have heard say they went to see 50 Shades of Grey said they were upset it was lacking in porn scenes) I assume there are men who discover history files in their wives account that they forgot to erase.

If a man (or woman) ever looks at his/her spouses phone, laptop, computer, tablet, or whatever, looking for history or recent activity of any kind, that person is a very sick individual and has far deeper issues that porn. This indicates a complete lack of trust. If there is no trust, why even be married?

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. You'd be best to stay out of this conversation unless you have something useful to add because this is not useful. Most of the time when a spouse finds out that their loved one (husband, wife, child etc) has a pornography addiction, it is because they either stumble across graphic websites/pages which were not properly closed or they have an impression (brought on and urged by the spirit) that their loved one is in danger and they are compelled to search for answers.

If you had ANY experience with this(unless you are the one doing it), you would know that a loved one with a compulsion to look at pornography hides it. They try to make sure that others can't find out what they are doing. The only way to find out and try to get help (get them to see that they need help) is when others find out. A person who loves their spouse and is warned by the spirit to search for something is NOT SICK. They are tied with a bond of love and powerful eternal ties (in the case of a temple sealing) which lets them feel that something is not right with their mate. Trust breaks down when the person viewing porn continues to do so, even though they have said they will stop and later, the nagging promptings by the spirit let them know that something is amiss, they act on those promptings and their fears are confirmed.

Some of us don't walk out of our marriages because our spouses disappoint us or cause pain, we don't kick our children out of the house because we come to realize we can't trust them, they've been lying to us or hiding things. We recognize that life brings joy but also pain. We don't stay in a marriage only in the good times, but through the bad times as well. We don't withdraw our love because our loved ones struggle with very real trials and problems. Being able to trust a spouse implicitly is a blessing that some, with their human foibles, are not able to do--but that is no reason to leave a marriage or disown a child. It should take much more than that to irreparably damage a family bond. Heavenly Father wanted us to love and support our spouses, to work together and sometimes one will have problems and the other must stand by them, pray and fast for them and try to help them get through and overcome their trials. A pure, deep, abiding love can overcome all obstacles--If the Savior showed us anything, it was how to love even those who cause us the most pain and suffering. Are we greater than he?

I would just warn you, Lightone, Do not belittle or condemn the very real warnings of the spirit and the stewardships that husbands and wives in eternal covenantal bonds have for eachother. And don't call those who act on those promptings 'sick'.

[AI2.0]

Would someone please tell me what they define as "Porn addiction?"

Please, I really am curious.

I wonder though...since women are now a huge market for porn (every woman I have heard say they went to see 50 Shades of Grey said they were upset it was lacking in porn scenes) I assume there are men who discover history files in their wives account that they forgot to erase.

If a man (or woman) ever looks at his/her spouses phone, laptop, computer, tablet, or whatever, looking for history or recent activity of any kind, that person is a very sick individual and has far deeper issues that porn. This indicates a complete lack of trust. If there is no trust, why even be married?

I suspect this story is made up but whatever, it illustrates that the Church is so caught up with this issue that apparently it justifies sneaking into someone's computer files to check to make sure they are not accessing porn:

https://www.lds.org/liahona/2006/08/my- ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Within only a few weeks, my husband, sick with the flu, went to bed, leaving his computer on. As I started to shut it down, I suddenly felt I should check it. There was the pornography.

Read my post above and you will have my answer. The church is warning us while you and others try to discourage their efforts. When I read your posts, this scripture kept coming to my mind, I believe it fits you:

2 Nephi 9:28-29
"O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.
But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsel of God."

[Fiannan]

Why is it that you attempt to justify LDS men's pornography by pointing to and generalizing about women reading or viewing 50 Shades of Grey? I'm not naive, I am aware of the book and it's popularity among non-LDS. While Twilight was certainly popular among LDS women (I did not read it, though) I have no first hand experience with my LDS women friends that any have read or seen the 50 shades movie, because the graphic sexual nature of the book is well known. But why have you even brought that into the discussion? Since when is someone else's bad acts an excuse for others' bad acts?
If you don't think pornography viewing is a problem, come out and say it, but don't try to rationalize this by comparing an LDS man compulsively viewing naked women engaging in graphic sexual acts which they hide from their wives and others to non-LDS women's prurient interest in reading graphic romance novels. I agree that the number of women who view pornograhy is growing, most likely because pornography is so easy to access, I'm sure children viewing pornography is rising for the same reason--however, that is a topic for another discussion.

Okay, let us suppose we were discussing the issue of bank robberies and each time we referred to Mexican bank robbers, and why Mexicans seem to have a problem with robbing banks. It would be very justified for someone to point out that it is racist to only make references to Mexican bank robbers when white, Asian and black people rob banks just as much as any other group. In fact we would consider it racist to only concentrate on Mexican criminals, right? Then why is it not sexist to only concentrate on men and porn? What message do we give men when we only deal with men and porn? I believe it belittles men and is intended to create a male-guilt complex. As for women if they look at porn they feel like they are dirty and shameful creatures and if they don't they start developing a sense of victimhood. That is why I call out the reality that porn is more and more mainstream and more and more looked at by both genders.

As for 50 Shades I noted that it played in Orem and had multiple showings per day. Was that only non-Mormons and Jack-Mormon women? Highly doubtful. And this woman's observations about the series are quite insightful: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lois-alte ... 07994.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; She deals with a Mormon women's book club reading the book by the way.

Since when did the church ever care what the DSM or the American Psychological Assoc. says????? Why the *** should I or you care what THEY think is a disorder??????
Look Fiannan, if you don't think pornography viewing is a problem, just be honest about it and say it. Stop hiding behind this crap you keep throwing out that has nothing to do with LDS men and compulsive pornography viewing.

When one uses terms like "disorder" or "addiction" they are using psychological vocabulary. If they use terms like "immoral" then that is totally kosher in regards to discussing this topic. I will note you use the term "compulsive" which again makes me think of psychology. May I ask what you consider compulsive and what would be moderate use? Do you believe a man or woman looking at the stuff, let us say, once a month on average addiction or compulsive?

You should be familiar with the definition of 'addiction': "A state characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences."
That pretty much characterizes men (or women) who continue to view pornography even though they feel terrible about it, want to stop, know it is causing damage to their loved ones and themselves, yet they continue to do it. Whether or not the APA recognizes it doesn't much matter to me either--I think they've bowed to political and social pressure in a number of decisions they've made over the years.

And what if they do not feel terrible about it? And what if the wife asks the husband to turn off the block on the cable box when the kids are in bed so they can watch a porn selection? Yes, there are some people who would feel very hurt if their spouse looked at porn, some who would just say "whatever" and others who would be ticked off if they are not being invited to join. Again, I will use the alcohol analogy. We believe that using alcohol is wrong, but is it addiction if someone uses it occasionally? Should they be in a 12 step program if caught with a can of beer?

You can try to look at this from a sterile, clinical position, but others have to live with the real life damage. Your answer seems to be to tell women that they are making a big fuss over nothing and that they ought to get with the program--other women are enjoying pornography and if they'd admit that it's just a human phenomena, there will be no problem in the marriage. I guess on some levels, you are right. Ignore the problem or join in so it is no longer only one spouse's problem.

Yes I will continue to look at it from a clinical viewpoint because I believe it is also damaging to make a huge deal out of this issue. Have you spent much time reviewing posts on blogs from disenchanted Mormon men and women who will cite the porn obsession with being a factor in them turning negative to the Church? I read an article in a large British newspaper a couple of years ago where a woman was concerned that her husband was losing faith in the Church. She was a faithful member until, when she discussed her husband's doubts with women in Relief Society they kept asking if the root problem was a porn addiction. She then decided to quit. Think about the ramifications this issue is having - especially on marriages, and I am not talking about the porn itself.

But you are ignoring the very REAL damage which comes to an LDS priesthood holder (who is held to a higher standard because he has more enlightenment than other men) spiritually when he indulges in this compulsion. It takes it's toll on the man in many ways and it certainly influences his relationship with his wife, not to mention her mental and emotional health when she finds out what he's been hiding and the very serious implications it has on their marital bond. I have no reason to believe that if the tables were turned and a husband finds out that his wife has this problem, he too, would be devastated.

Now here you begin to deal with this in a moral v. immoral sense and I can agree with you. Porn brings with a it a spirit of sexual immorality as you have to pay men and women to engage in sex in front of a camera. It is destructive to a society in that context, and yes, it can reduce spirituality as well as entice men and women to engage in immoral actions themselves.

I do not believe divorce is the answer, I believe men and women need real tools to help them overcome this serious threat to their marriage. I think that is what the church is trying to do, but YOU and others who promote this idea that it is overblown and it is the wife's problem are undermining God's commands that men and women be virtuous and moral.

And if one makes this the new litmus test for devotion to the Church as well as commitment to a marriage then that is overblowing the problem, at least when the average man or woman is concerned. God also made it clear you are to not work on Sunday, or that kids are not to speak ill of their parents (wasn't that a death sentence in the Bible?) so while we all fall short of perfection if we concentrate on this particular issue then we risk the problems I have already discussed.

You should study some of the talks given in General Conference on this subject and maybe you can come to understand why Heavenly Father would warn us of this problem (and Satan tells the world it is not).

I know full well how this issue is undermining morality. When I go through Facebook and see so many young women, including LDS women, posting new profile pics with the pride colors today, I think back to a decade ago when I predicted that porn would be a major factor in turning our culture more and more gay-positive as well as encouraging young women to try out what they are viewing in videos. And believe me, we are not even close to what will soon evolve in our increasingly bi-sexual society, not even close.

[Chive123]

There is no justification for a sin that can destroy Gods plan, which is "to bring to pass the Eternal Life of Man and Woman." This is only done through marriage. It's nothing to take lightly. I suffered a major problem that eventually led to my wife closing off and dividing our marriage and family. Lack of communication, lack of understanding, lack of education, lack of empathy, and lack of drive to make things work on both endsis what caused my family to fail. That is what causes my kids to suffer in silent pain every day because their daddy was banished from their home. Porn will NEVER define me as a father. Porn has ZERO measure for the love I had....have for my ex wife. Porn is a stress triggered addiction. The more stressful my life is, the more I turned to it. If I could have talked to her openly and cried to her then I think I could have had it under control. But she responded with emotional bullying. She had no empathy. She didn't care. She left. What do you think I turned to when my life was literally taken from me?

[Chive123]

So my question..was she justified to divorce? Did she respond to the dilemma properly? I know what my part was in the divorce. I know what I did to cause it. I take ownership. But was it 100 percent my fault? Did she have no choice?

[David13]

What you keep missing is that any addiction, drugs, alcohol, etc., is not about how people treat you, or if your wife loves you 'enough' or anything about her. It has 100% to do with what's inside you.
Your whole emphasis continues to be "well, she did this, she did that, ..."
You got to start working the future, your future, not hers. She has to do any work on her future.
As to fault and blame, that should not be any thought of yours. That's just more of an excuse, a justification.
Stop trying to put her in order and instead concentrate 100% on putting yourself in order.
When you go into a marriage, there has to be 100% full disclosure. No secrets kept.
Get back to living your own life in the proper way and stop trying to live her life for her.
dc

[rewcox]

So my question..was she justified to divorce? Did she respond to the dilemma properly? I know what my part was in the divorce. I know what I did to cause it. I take ownership. But was it 100 percent my fault? Did she have no choice?

She was justified. Don't live in the past. You may want to read The Infinite Atonement. Focus on Christ and let him heal you.

Be the person you should be now, and things will work out.

[Squally]

As what the church institution has taught her..... is she justified?

As to what Christ has taught...... is she justified?

Two different questions..... two different answers?