The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

[lundbaek]

There have been other Prophets and Apostles who had and expressed the same political views as did President Benson. He happened to be the last of the outspoken prophets. And I have heard and read lots of stories about other general authorities disagreeing with him, and even the hogwash about previous Church Presidents having chastised him "over and over for preaching his far right wing politics in his capacity as a General Authority." Please tell us, Kopeland, which Prophets chastised him ? And how did you come to learn of this ? We would do well to review what President Benson said Re. freedom and the US Constitution while serving as the Prophet and President of the Church.

It seems quite clear that since 1987 the Church presidents have pretty much shut up about freedom and the Constitution in general conferences. I attribute this in part to the failure of Church members generally to respond positively to the admonitions especially of President McKay, Clark, GA Smith, and Grant to be vigilant in learning the principles of the Constitution and abiding by them. And I attribute the relative silence now also to the "murderous combinations" having gotten so firmly above us that they could seriously impede the important programs of the Church.

[Fiannan]

In reference to abortion and such here is an interesting video showing how a child in the womb reacts to his or her mother smoking:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science ... mokes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GeeR]

I think if one were to read "The Proper Role Of Government" in the 1968 conference address ( http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1636" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) it should be pretty clear what our political persuasions should be.

It will only be clear if you only read what Elder Benson said they should be. Many other General Authorities said he was wrong. Should we ignore the rest of them?

I know you admire Elder Benson lundbaek. I do too. But how can you pick out just one General Authority, and take only his views to heart, especially when there are so many General Authorities who not only disagree with him, but who chastised him over and over for preaching his far right wing politics in his capacity as a General Authority, including the First Presidency?

Yes, in his "Proper Role of Government" talk in Conference in 1968, he described US government "welfare-state programs" as a "Communist planned program of deception." And when an LDS director of a government welfare program in Provo asked the First Presidency about it, he was told: “Be assured of this, that what this man said does not represent the position of the Church with respect to the subject of government aid, etc.” and emphasized that Benson’s “statements do not represent the church.”

Do you have any references? [MODERATOR EDIT]

[KMCopeland]

I think if one were to read "The Proper Role Of Government" in the 1968 conference address ( http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1636" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) it should be pretty clear what our political persuasions should be.

It will only be clear if you only read what Elder Benson said they should be. Many other General Authorities said he was wrong. Should we ignore the rest of them?

I know you admire Elder Benson lundbaek. I do too. But how can you pick out just one General Authority, and take only his views to heart, especially when there are so many General Authorities who not only disagree with him, but who chastised him over and over for preaching his far right wing politics in his capacity as a General Authority, including the First Presidency?

Yes, in his "Proper Role of Government" talk in Conference in 1968, he described US government "welfare-state programs" as a "Communist planned program of deception." And when an LDS director of a government welfare program in Provo asked the First Presidency about it, he was told: “Be assured of this, that what this man said does not represent the position of the Church with respect to the subject of government aid, etc.” and emphasized that Benson’s “statements do not represent the church.”

Do you have any references? [MODERATOR EDIT]

When you ask and answer a question all by yourself, it's good evidence that you're not really interested in the answer.

[Fiannan]

When you ask and answer a question all by yourself, it's good evidence that you're not really interested in the answer.

I'm interested, please indulge me then.

[GeeR]

That's because I'm self-assured there is no answer/reference! If there were a reference for it, it would be all over the internet and used against conservatives in the church to shut them up but wallah--no such scenario.

[GeeR]

KMCopeland, I knew you couldn't answer. :p

[KMCopeland]

When you ask and answer a question all by yourself, it's good evidence that you're not really interested in the answer.

I'm interested, please indulge me then.

Glad to.

These are some excerpts from an article called "Ezra Taft Benson and Politics," followed by the link where you'll find the entire article, along with 63 meticulous sources for each assertion in it:

"In most political discussions in the US church, if one starts to advocate the liberal policies which most liberals feel are abundant throughout our standard works, many of our conservative sisters and brothers will cite Ezra Taft Benson in 'denouncing' such views. While we have a great love for the service President Benson gave, especially while President of the church, we strongly disagree with his political opinions. We often hear that his opinions were not his opinions, but rather 'the truth' or 'doctrine.' In an effort to address the view that Ezra Taft Benson's political opinions were doctrine, we present this condensed summary of the reactions and interactions of Elder Benson with his church leaders on the topic of politics ...

Elder Benson said the following in October 1961 general conference: “No true Latter-day Saint and no true American can be a socialist or a communist or support programs leading in that direction.”[3] After this he was chastised by the First Presidency.[4] ...

Benson and his son (who was employed by the Birch Society and was the head person of the Utah branch[7]) continued insinuating that the Birch ideology was the most in harmony with the gospel, which led the First Presidency again in 1963 to issue this statement:

"We deplore the presumption of some politicians, especially officers, co-ordinators and members of the John Birch Society, who undertake to align the Church or its leadership with their political views.”[8]

Rex E. Lee (founder of BYU Law School and future President of BYU), wrote in September 1963 ... “It is regrettable, however, that Brother Benson has detracted from his effectiveness as a Church leader through his active support of the John Birch Society.” He continued, “I have found myself periodically called upon to remind my friends, usually without success, that when Elder Benson acts to promote the ends of extremist organization and leaders he is not declaring Church doctrine.”[9]

... President McKay's son said in a letter: “We shall all be relieved when Elder Benson ceases to resist counsel and returns to a concentration on those affairs befitting his office. It is my feeling that there will be an immediate and noticeable curtailment of his Birch Society activities.”[15] ...

In 1965 President McKay approved the new official church position that endorsed “full civil rights for any person, regardless of race, color or creed.”[24] However, Elder Benson then said the following in General Conference:

"Before I left for Europe I warned how the communists were using the civil rights movement to promote revolution and eventual takeover of this country ...

His talk was censored for parts referring to LDS “traitors” as well as his assessment of the civil rights movement as Communist and revolutionary were removed.[25] ...

In January 1966 Benson endorsed the Birch Society and its program at stake conferences and at the LDS institute in Logan, Utah.[27] He was again chastised.[28] From the First Presidency meeting minutes:

"President McKay suggested that Elder Benson might not be assigned to stake conferences if he referred to the John Birch Society. The President then said that Elder Benson should be instructed not to discuss the Birch Society in any meeting, and that he should not advocate this group."[29]

President McKay then authorized Elder Peterson of the Twelve to publicly attack the Birch Society.[30] In his editorial he proclaimed that the church had "nothing to do with racists, nothing to do with Birchers, nothing to do with any slanted group" and further warned Mormons to "avoid extremes and extremists."[31] ...

The First Presidency and the Twelve’s president regarded Benson’s [1966] conference sermon as a criticism of every general authority except David O. McKay ... Joseph Fielding Smith “agreed heartily with Tanner’s objections to the talk in general.”[38] Brown added that Benson’s “talk is wholly objectionable because it does impugn the rest of us and our motives when we have advised the people to live their religion and stay away from extremist ideas and philosophies.”[39] ...

A month after Dr. Martin Luther King Jr’s assassination Elder Benson gave a BYU devotional in which he accused the US Supreme Court of treason and quoted from the Birch Society’s magazine about “the Communists and their Black Power fanatics.”[44] Ten days later President Brown delivered BYU’s commencement address saying “Beware of those who feel obliged to prove their own patriotism by calling into question the loyalty of others,” and concluded his remarks saying “At a time when radicals of right or left would inflame race against race, avoid those who preach evil doctrines of racism.”[45]

In October 1968 General Conference Benson described US government “welfare-state programs” as a “Communist-planned program of deception.”[46] When a mormon director of a government welfare program asked the First Presidency he was told: “Be assured, however, of this, that what this man said does not represent the position of the Church with respect to the subject of government aid, etc.” and emphasized that Benson’s “statements do not represent the church.”[47] ...

Henry D. Taylor, an Assistant to the Twelve, told of an incident in which Lee gave Benson an embarrassing rebuke during a meeting.[54] ... Benson’s assigned topic was the youth program, but he began presenting charts and quotes to show Communist influence in America and the need to teach anti-Communism to Mormon youth. Lee walked out while Benson was speaking, soon followed by the other apostles ...

... President Kimball asked Benson to apologize to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, but they “were dissatisfied with his response.”[62] Kimball required him to explain himself to a combined meeting of all general authorities the following week.[63]

The moral of all this? Benson’s political talks were barely tolerated by church leaders and certainly do not represent the views of the church itself ..."

http://www.mormonpress.com/ezra-taft-be ... d-politics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lundbaek]

I suggest reading the entire article at http://www.mormonpress.com/ezra-taft-be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... d-politics as posted by MormonLiberals

[KMCopeland]

I suggest reading the entire article at http://www.mormonpress.com/ezra-taft-be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... d-politics as posted by MormonLiberals

A very good idea.

[lundbaek]

Anybody: What specific faults can anyone find in the political opinions expressed by President Benson ?

[Obrien]

Anybody: What specific faults can anyone find in the political opinions expressed by President Benson ?

He was too liberal.

I never heard him speak out on the abortion with as much common sense as I did a few pages ago. I don't recall him being strongly for a silver / gold based currency, either, but it's been a few years since I was routinely studying EB.

[Fiannan]

I believe Ezra Taft Benson was inspired to warn of the dangers of false patriotism, placing the society in the hands of the state, and conforming to the liberal/left "ideals" on family and reproduction. I will note that in less than a generation after his death we have the Patriot Act, an East-German-style spy system on domestic citizens, and a birth rate lower than at any time in the history of this nation.

Knock President Benson all you wish but it is akin to calling Noah a radical.

[KMCopeland]

Anybody: What specific faults can anyone find in the political opinions expressed by President Benson ?

I guess I share the specific faults his fellow GA's, and other assorted highly-placed Church leadership, found in them.

[KMCopeland]

Here's the biggie, for me:

"In most political discussions in the US church, if one starts to advocate the liberal policies which most liberals feel are abundant throughout our standard works, many of our conservative sisters and brothers will cite Ezra Taft Benson in 'denouncing' such views. While we have a great love for the service President Benson gave, especially while President of the church, we strongly disagree with his political opinions. We often hear that his opinions were not his opinions, but rather 'the truth' or 'doctrine.' In an effort to address the view that Ezra Taft Benson's political opinions were doctrine, we present this condensed ... summary of the reactions and interactions of Elder Benson with his church leaders on the topic of politics."

The link in lundbaek's post leads to a 404 error. I don't know why. Here it is again:

http://www.mormonpress.com/ezra-taft-be ... d-politics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[KMCopeland]

I believe Ezra Taft Benson was inspired to warn of the dangers of false patriotism, placing the society in the hands of the state, and conforming to the liberal/left "ideals" on family and reproduction. I will note that in less than a generation after his death we have the Patriot Act, an East-German-style spy system on domestic citizens, and a birth rate lower than at any time in the history of this nation.

Knock President Benson all you wish but it is akin to calling Noah a radical.

That could only be true if President Benson's predictions came true, like Noah's did. He's been predicting a communist takeover, among other dire events, since the 50's. So far, zip.

You, lundbaek, ezra and FFA and anyone else who wants to, are free to embrace his political opinions, and I not only respect your right to do so, I'd fight for it. I have fought for it. But all three of you seem convinced that his positions were, and are, part of the restored gospel. They simply aren't. And many of his peers in the Church have been saying that since he first took advantage of his position in Church leadership to promote them. They didn't like it. They called him down on it over and over and over.

I think you should listen to all of them. Not just him.

[Fiannan]

Author of above article: "MormonLiberals." Just pointing it out.

[Fiannan]

KMC, tell me what a communist was in the 1950s and where the USA is today.

[KMCopeland]

KMC, tell me what a communist was in the 1950s and where the USA is today.

Your point being that President Benson's prediction that we would soon be a communist nation if we adopted Civil Rights legislation has come true?

[KMCopeland]

Author of above article: "MormonLiberals." Just pointing it out.

Duly, proudly noted.

[Fiannan]

KMC, tell me what a communist was in the 1950s and where the USA is today.

Your point being that President Benson's prediction that we would soon be a communist nation if we adopted Civil Rights legislation has come true?

Do you see people as Americans or as voting blocks based on race, gender, sexual orientation and ethnicity KMC? How do politicians today see this?

Answer your question KMC?

When we relaxed our immigration policies in 1964 it was noted by Johnson himself that this would not affect the ultimate demographic makeup of the USA. How would Johnson feel today seeing the rapid transformation taking place due to legal and illegal immigration? Our leaders who pass laws often think the laws will only do what on the face they are written to address. It is what people later attempt to do with those laws that we need to consider. The gay rights bill the Church is supporting in Utah will turn around and bite them in the you-know-what later on.

The legislation supporting civil rights was a great idea, and I would have voted for it in an instant if a legislator in those years, but it is sad that our system almost insures people with their own agendas will spoil even the most noble of laws.

[KMCopeland]

KMC, tell me what a communist was in the 1950s and where the USA is today.

Your point being that President Benson's prediction that we would soon be a communist nation if we adopted Civil Rights legislation has come true?

Do you see people as Americans or as voting blocks based on race, gender, sexual orientation and ethnicity KMC?

As Americans.

How do politicians today see this?

As voting blocks, etc.

Answer your question KMC?

Nope. Quelle surprise.

When we relaxed our immigration policies in 1964 it was noted by Johnson himself that this would not affect the ultimate demographic makeup of the USA.

In 1964, he was right.

How would Johnson feel today seeing the rapid transformation taking place due to legal and illegal immigration?

Hard to say. He was a Democrat after all. But he's dead. So who cares. (That was for ezra.)

Our leaders who pass laws often think the laws will only do what on the face they are written to address. It is what people later attempt to do with those laws that we need to consider.

We can consider it of course. If we can accept being wrong about half the time.

The gay rights bill the Church is supporting in Utah will turn around and bite them in the you-know-what later on.

You'll have to tell me what bill you mean. The non-discrimination one we've been discussing in this thread?

The legislation supporting civil rights was a great idea, and I would have voted for it in an instant if a legislator in those years, but it is sad that our system almost insures people with their own agendas will spoil even the most noble of laws.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Fiannan]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

No surprise.

[AGStacker]

Anybody: What specific faults can anyone find in the political opinions expressed by President Benson ?

He was too liberal.

I never heard him speak out on the abortion with as much common sense as I did a few pages ago. I don't recall him being strongly for a silver / gold based currency, either, but it's been a few years since I was routinely studying EB.

Currency based on silver/gold isn't necessary. Read Martin Armstrong's blog.

[Obrien]

I have.
My opinion is that in this world, eventually you gotta find something for money that is not abundant, easily copied, electricity based and that is widely accepted, durable and fungible. Gold and silver seem to be the best things to trust in for a more honest monetary system.