The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

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Joel
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The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by Joel »

The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics


The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints just passed a pro-LGBT piece of legislation in Utah.

Does that sound odd to you? It does to me, but it is essentially true.

For years, there have been those in the Utah legislature who have pushed for statewide legislation that would prevent businesses and landlords from prohibiting homosexuals from working at their business or renting a home from them; they called it a “statewide anti-discrimination” bill.

And for years the legislation failed.

Year after year the bill sponsor would bring the bill forward simply to have it die before it got off the ground, but this year was different. This year the most powerful entity in the state of Utah, the LDS Church, endorsed the legislation.

This year the legislation passed.

Having served in the Utah legislature, I have been asked several times what role the LDS Church really plays when it comes to Utah politics, and until now I have remained largely silent. While in the legislature I was a faithful member of the LDS Church; to speak of things that might bring embarrassment to the church would have been unwise, not to mention political suicide. Today, the issue is very topical with the recent passage of the pro-LGBT legislation, and I feel it is time to break the silence and provide some insight.

A common question from people is whether or not the LDS Church leadership gets whatever they want when it comes to Utah politics, and the answer is a resounding, “Yes; if the LDS Church wants something in Utah politics, they get it."

To be absolutely fair, they rarely want things badly enough to engage openly. The church is very selective regarding the legislation they engage. This is due to the fact that because most of Utah’s legislators are LDS members, the majority of legislation already aligns with the LDS Church position without their influence. During the three terms I served in the Utah House of Representatives, I was only approached twice by the LDS lobbyists for a vote.

John Taylor and Bill Evans are full-time employees of the LDS Church and their job is to monitor the Utah Government, and to act as the paid lobbyists on behalf of the church. They regularly meet with legislators behind closed doors, (as do other lobbyists, this is nothing nefarious or unusual,) to push the agenda of their employer.

When the LDS lobbyists contact a legislator, the conversation goes like this:

We are here to discuss such-and-such bill. We have received our orders “directly from the top,” and we want you to vote for this bill.

They mention that they received their orders “from the top,” so that the legislator would know unequivocally that the LDS Church’s First Presidency sent them.

The first piece of legislation they contacted me about dealt with alcohol. For better or worse, it is an unarguable fact that legislation regarding alcohol never gets passed without the express consent of the LDS Church. They control all changes to the state alcohol laws.

In 2008, SB 211 was proposed to remove “flavored malt beverages” from grocery stores and place them for sale in state liquor stores only. The day the bill was to be heard in the House of Representatives, I was summoned to the hall, where I was met by the LDS lobbyists. They gave me the “from the top” introduction, and then asked me to support the bill. I told them no. Although not a drinker, I simply could not bring myself to take a profit-producing legal product out of the hands of private business owners and give it to the state to sell. It was wrong then, and it is wrong now.

Keep in mind, that in 2008 I was a faithful Mormon with a current temple recommend, and had only recently been released from my LDS leadership position as an Elders Quorum President. To tell my church leaders “no,” was anathema to how I was raised. As I turned to walk back into the chambers, one of the lobbyists said to me, “Don’t worry, voting against us will not affect your church membership status,” I was relieved.

SB 211 passed.

Learning how powerful the LDS Church was politically, several pro-life legislators and I set up a meeting in my office with the two LDS Church lobbyists. Our intention was to recruit the LDS Church in the battle for the right-to-life. For weeks we had worked on legislation that would prove to make Utah the leader in the fight against abortion. We presented our idea and expressed our eagerness to have the LDS church help in the fight to pass a bill that had failed the year before. They turned us down flat, telling us that “the First Presidency has made it clear to them that they will not engage on abortion issues.”

We asked them why they had come out so strongly on alcohol use, but would not engage in the fight for the life of a baby. And in what can only be described as a brief, unguarded moment, the head lobbyist expressed his confusion as to the apparent misappropriation of priorities, but they stuck to their guns.

Then came 2011; the year my rose colored glasses regarding the LDS Church got scratched a bit.
HB116 was an extremely controversial bill dealing with illegal immigration and proposed issuing state worker cards to illegal immigrants. For at least two weeks prior to the final passage of HB116, the two church lobbyists practically lived in the back halls of the state capitol and in the office of house leadership. I was vocally opposed to the legislation, but was still contacted repeatedly by both lobbyists who attempted to change my opposition. The calls became frequent enough from the LDS Lobbyists, that I stopped taking them.

What bothered me most was when my local ecclesiastical leader contacted me and attempted to persuade me to vote for the bill as well. When I asked him, “Who from the Church headquarters had asked you to contact me?” he simply confirmed that he had been asked, but would not say by whom.

The night HB116 was debated for final passage was insane. There was intensity I had never felt before or after on the house floor. It was the intensity that comes only from political bullying, and it killed me to know that this time the “bully” was my own church.

I was approached by a younger representative who was on the verge of tears. He expressed to me that he had just gotten out of a “PPI meeting” and asked if I had had mine yet. I knew what he meant and I was sorry for him.

A legitimate “PPI” or “Personal Priesthood Interview” is conducted within the confines of the LDS Church. It is an ecclesiastical meeting between an LDS leader and a male member under their “authority.” When I was an Elders Quorum President, I held PPI’s with the elders under my charge. A PPI is used to check on the spiritual welfare of the man being interviewed, and to make sure they are on the “straight and narrow.” But that is not what this legislator meant…

What he had just experienced was an intense, closed-door meeting with select members of house leadership and the LDS Church lobbyists who made it abundantly clear that when HB116 came up for a vote, he was to support the bill, period.

Sometimes, if the legislator felt strongly enough about the legislation, they would allow him to vote against it, but ONLY after the bill had the necessary votes recorded to ensure passage. This was the deal this particular representative was under, and both he and I knew it. He was clearly shaken and expressed that he had no idea that his “church would do this kind of thing.” I hurt for him.

House leadership was split on HB116, so when I saw a member of house leadership who I knew was opposed to the bill walk onto the house floor, I went up to him and engaged him in conversation. The following is our word-for-word conversation:

Me: Hey, (name of House leader) how much of what is going on tonight regarding HB116 has to do with the LDS church?

Him: All of it; I hate this.

Me: It’s going to pass isn’t it?

Him: Yes, and in fact if the vote is close, I have to vote for it, I have no choice.”

Me: You had a PPI?

Him: Yep…(walks away).

HB116 passed as the LDS Church lobbyists looked on from the gallery.

I was not in the legislature this year, but the look and feel of the passing of HB116 and the current non-discrimination bill are quite the same. One can only guess how many legislators had “PPI’s” before the vote on the church-endorsed LGBT legislation, but there is no doubt in my mind, that as legislators read this blog, one or more of them will know precisely what I am talking about.

So, what role does the LDS Church really play when it comes to Utah politics? From my experience, it all depends on how badly the church wants a specific piece of legislation passed.

-Carl

KMCopeland
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by KMCopeland »

That was fascinating.

Lizzy60
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by Lizzy60 »

I am grieved by what he said about the Church's unwillingness to engage on abortion issues.

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light-one
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by light-one »

I'm not an attorney so reading SB116 in one sitting did not help my understanding much. It would have been easier without the water legislation thrown in. You are to be congratulated for sticking by your guns even under pressure.

From what I gathered it was postponed until 2015.

I wasn't very impressed with giving illegal aliens any paperwork other than a choice between the death penalty and deportation. It seemed to me like trying to prevent identity theft would be solved by immediate execution or death penalty to all illegal aliens and so the rest of it just amounted to amnesty. Or maybe I didn't understand it correctly.

I feel that people that break into our country are enemies of the state and worse than traitors. I think the death penalty is appropriate on sight as they cross and since they are not citizens, I see absolutely no reason for them to have due process.

In fact, I would suggest that a bounty be placed on illegal aliens and that $1000.00 cash be given to the person bringing the illegal alien in. No identification of the bounty hunter should be required. It would cost less than food stamps to implement and could completely wipe out the illegal alien population in a very short time.

I can see where tithing receipts would increase with the illegal alien having an American job instead of earning pesos in Mexico, but it destroys our country. Besides, the illegal aliens that I see do not pay tithing.

In your opinion, what is the real reason that the church would be willing to have a dramatic increase in crime, destruction of property by graffiti, millions of dollars lost by church members whose back yards are stolen, billions spent on messages to people that shouldn't even be here in the first place, etc.?

I mean I can understand lobbying for a good cause, but I fail to see a good cause here.

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David13
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by David13 »

===
It sounds somewhat more than odd to me. Well, far more than odd.
dc

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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

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Interesting perspective from a former Utah congressman regarding the the LDS Church's influence on politics in Utah.

lundbaek
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by lundbaek »

The bit about HB116 is especially disturbing to me, since I consider support of illegal immigration support of treason. I am forwarding this on to certain current and past Arizona state legislators.

Fiannan
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by Fiannan »

The Church caved on polygamy in the 1890s but there was a reasonable threat to its very survival so I can understand it. Now the Church is caving on homosexuality. Oh well, see you all at the Pride Festival! Won't the Young Women look cute parading behind Dykes on Bikes? A friend of mine attended a pride festival a couple of years ago wearing an adorable leather bikini. I am sure I can ask her how someone can order a few. ;)

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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by jwharton »

Wow, just wow. Kudos for standing up and shedding light on this very unfortunate trend that must be arrested somehow.

EPH
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by EPH »

My husband was selected by the church to be part of opinion polling surveys. His last one he submitted was just after Kate Kelly's excommunication. I assume they are done with him since it has been awhile since they've sent him a survey. One of the surveys was quite focused on this issue. I don't remember the questions exactly but mostly were about how one felt about the church getting involved in Utah politics. Other surveys focused on gay marriage. Feelings about recent excommunications and feelings about moving to a 2 hour block. I get frustrated when opinion polling is used or pilot programs and we all jump and call changes revelation.

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Obrien
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by Obrien »

Lizzy60 wrote:I am grieved by what he said about the Church's unwillingness to engage on abortion issues.
The unborn don't have parades and demand rights in public housing, transportation and employment. :(

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Obrien
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by Obrien »

Fiannan wrote:The Church caved on polygamy in the 1890s but there was a reasonable threat to its very survival so I can understand it. Now the Church is caving on homosexuality. Oh well, see you all at the Pride Festival! Won't the Young Women look cute parading behind Dykes on Bikes? A friend of mine attended a pride festival a couple of years ago wearing an adorable leather bikini. I am sure I can ask her how someone can order a few. ;)
Do they come with shoulder coverings?

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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by marktheshark »

Fiannan wrote:The Church caved on polygamy in the 1890s but there was a reasonable threat to its very survival so I can understand it. Now the Church is caving on homosexuality. Oh well, see you all at the Pride Festival! Won't the Young Women look cute parading behind Dykes on Bikes? A friend of mine attended a pride festival a couple of years ago wearing an adorable leather bikini. I am sure I can ask her how someone can order a few. ;)
The Church isn't "caving" on homosexuality at all.

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Obrien
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by Obrien »

EPH wrote:My husband was selected by the church to be part of opinion polling surveys. His last one he submitted was just after Kate Kelly's excommunication. I assume they are done with him since it has been awhile since they've sent him a survey. One of the surveys was quite focused on this issue. I don't remember the questions exactly but mostly were about how one felt about the church getting involved in Utah politics. Other surveys focused on gay marriage. Feelings about recent excommunications and feelings about moving to a 2 hour block. I get frustrated when opinion polling is used or pilot programs and we all jump and call changes revelation.
Interesting information. Thanks for posting.

PS - Please tell your husband to be ENCHANTED with a 2 hour block. :)

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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by Lizzy60 »

marktheshark wrote:
Fiannan wrote:The Church caved on polygamy in the 1890s but there was a reasonable threat to its very survival so I can understand it. Now the Church is caving on homosexuality. Oh well, see you all at the Pride Festival! Won't the Young Women look cute parading behind Dykes on Bikes? A friend of mine attended a pride festival a couple of years ago wearing an adorable leather bikini. I am sure I can ask her how someone can order a few. ;)
The Church isn't "caving" on homosexuality at all.
If you truly believe this, you are not paying attention.

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Joel
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by Joel »

This blog post only confirmed what I have known for a while. I have a family member that has worked up at the Utah state capitol for years and they have shared with me some of what they have observed how the church uses its influence on the faithful LDS that happen to be elected representives. If church patriarchy ever attempted to get me in a PPI situation about political issues I would make the experience for them very unpleasant, as I have before about different matters.

My only experience as far as the church using it's influence with with me on a individual level in regards of political campaigns was back in 2008 when the prop 8 campaign in California was being actively promoted by the church, Arizona had prop 102, which was similar in nature. One day I received a phone call by the church and I was told how the church expected me to vote on prop 102. I was told it was a way I could sustain my leaders. On that same phone call I expressed what I expected of the church in regards with dealing with me. It is with much joy and rejoicing I can report that was the only time I had an unsolicited political expectation imposed upon me officially by church patriarchy via phone call.

I posted this in the Myth of Infallibility thread last month:

Although many leaders within the Church say that individuals should seek confirmation of a leader's words on their own, many quotes prove that they already assume that the leaders are speaking God's words:
President Henry B. Eyring, First Counselor in the First Presidency, says, 'We must... follow [the Lord's] servants.'

'In the midst of the ominous problems of our day, Heavenly Father provides us with prophets to answer our petitions for divine guidance,' says President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Second Counselor in the First Presidency.

'Today, we have … apostles, seers, and revelators who are watchmen on the tower, messengers of supernal, healing truth,' he says. 'God speaks to us through them. They are profoundly aware of the different circumstances we members are living in. They are in this world but not of this world.'

When we follow the President of the Church as the prophet who leads the Church, President Uchtdorf says, 'It is our responsibility not only to listen but also to act upon his word...'

Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles says, 'I cannot stress enough the importance of listening to and following the prophet and the apostles...there is one clear, unpolluted, unbiased voice that you can always count on. And that is the voice of the living prophet and the apostles.'

'It is no small thing to have a prophet of God in our midst. Great and wonderful are the blessings that come into our lives as we listen to the word of the Lord given to us through him. At the same time, knowing that President [Thomas S. Monson] is God's prophet also endows us with responsibility. When we hear the counsel of the Lord expressed through the words of the President of the Church, our response should be positive and prompt.

Elder Ballard shares a story of a 17-year-old girl who, after hearing the counsel of fifteenth President of the Church Gordon B. Hinckley (1910-2008) to only wear one modest pair of earrings, 'came home from the fireside, took off the second set of earrings, and said to her parents, 'If President Hinckley says we should only wear one set of earrings, that's good enough for me.''

Elder Ballard continues, 'Wearing two pairs of earrings may or may not have eternal consequences for this young woman, but her willingness to obey the prophet will. And if she will obey him now, on something relatively simple, how much easier it will be to follow him when greater issues are at stake.' He continues, 'I make you a promise. It is a simple one, but it is true. If you will listen to the living prophet and the apostles and heed our counsel, you will not go astray.'

'I caution you to not disregard the counsel of the President of the Church. He has spoken to you plainly. Study his words and strive to obey them. They are true and come from God.'

Elder Quentin L. Cook of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles teaches that the best way to respond to problems and peril is to follow the living prophets. '...the importance of heeding the words of the prophets. This is one sure way to respond to physical and spiritual dangers of all kinds.'

'…If we follow the prophet, we can look to the future with great optimism.'

Sustaining Our Prophets and Apostles


When the church uses it's influence to meet it's political goals, is it using more than persuasion to win their influence over saints that have opposing political views?

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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by Fiannan »

If you truly believe this, you are not paying attention.
Ain't that the truth. You know, I would prefer they were caving than the only other alternative...a gradual mainstreaming of homosexuality into LDS religious and cultural theory and practice.

If gay rights was so important in the Gospel why didn't it come up in any General Conference talks in the Journal of Discourses or in Spencer W. Kimball's day...or Ezra Taft Benson? Might we soon have special stake conferences on how to reach out to the gay community? Like I said in a few months the summer gay pride festivals will begin. Maybe a special family home evening activity? Dad can dress in his favorite Village People outfit, mom can find a leather bikini and the kids can maybe just dress in non-gender-specific attire.

And O'Brien, I am sure you can find a shop with any outfit you might desire. One can find an infinite variety of selections for such an activity. =))

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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by Lance »

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Last edited by Lance on June 23rd, 2015, 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

marktheshark
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by marktheshark »

Lizzy60 wrote:I am grieved by what he said about the Church's unwillingness to engage on abortion issues.
I don't know what their reason is, but I think they have a very particular reason as to why they don't deal with abortion issues by making public statements.

The Church clearly teaches against abortion, and counsels to pray whether it should be done in certain extenuating circumstances such as rape, guaranteed death or extreme disfigurement of the fetus at birth or threatening the mother's life during pregnancy.

marktheshark
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by marktheshark »

Lizzy60 wrote:
marktheshark wrote:
Fiannan wrote:The Church caved on polygamy in the 1890s but there was a reasonable threat to its very survival so I can understand it. Now the Church is caving on homosexuality. Oh well, see you all at the Pride Festival! Won't the Young Women look cute parading behind Dykes on Bikes? A friend of mine attended a pride festival a couple of years ago wearing an adorable leather bikini. I am sure I can ask her how someone can order a few. ;)
The Church isn't "caving" on homosexuality at all.
If you truly believe this, you are not paying attention.

I'm paying very close attention.

Elder Chistofferson's statement the other day was not a cave in at all.

The Church stands very firm that sexual relations outside of a heterosexual marriage is sin.

Preaching tolerance is not the same thing as caving in.

Elder Chistofferson said that they won't discipline anyone who privately supports SSM. Probably to be sensitive to LDS families with homosexuals and ensuring that being loving and supportive of your family won't get you EX'd.
He was also clear that public affiliation of SSM supporters WILL get you in trouble.

Where's the cave in?

Lizzy60
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by Lizzy60 »

Social media does not equal "private."

You actually stated the correct word -- tolerance.

First we abhor the sin, then we tolerate it, and then we embrace it. This is the ongoing pattern of the natural man. The slippery slope. The only sure path is standing firmly on the Rock, who is Christ. He loves all mankind, He atoned for us all, but He does not tolerate sin in even the least degree. He abhors it, and homosexuality and abortion are the sins that will bring the wrath of God upon this nation.

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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by lundbaek »

From an LDS Arizona state legislator:

"As I read the article by Carl, it made me cry because I could relate to what he was saying so very much. I don't know if you were ever aware that all the LDS legislators were "called" to several meetings conducted by the very liberal "leaders" in the East Valley, Rock Arnett, David Udall, Anderson and others, where we were "counseled" to look at a particular issue in a certain way. Several of the LDS legislators bought into this coercion and would vote the way they were "counseled", while there were a few other of us that loved being thorns in those east valley leaders (?) side.

"I don't believe we have as much "counseling" here in the Arizona Legislature as they do in Utah. It sounded like Carl was pretty disappointed with the way "the Church" handled relationships with the Utah legislators and I can't say that I blame him. Whatever happened to Free Agency? "

In 2007 we were living in SLC when Elder Marlin Jensen spoke to a group of legislators asking them to oppose legislation that would deprive illegal immigrants of certain perks including in-state school tuition.

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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by Fiannan »

Marktheshark, if these issues are so important then why did the Church not support it until now?

Look, I believe that the LDS Church is the most correct on earth, however,that does not mean I agree with every administrative issue that comes out. What I do get uncomfortable with is that it uses its influence to force legislators who have been raised in the LDS faith to totally forsake what they know to be correct and vote for the legislation. In regards to abortion v. homosexuality I believe that abortion is a far worse action to engage in than homosexuality. If I were single and the gal I was dating admitted to me she had been in a lesbian relationship I would merely reply with a "whatever" while if she said she had done an elective abortion I would break up with her then and there. In fact, if my wife were to have a fling with a woman I would be angry over the betrayal but I would forgive really fast; if she said she had undergone an abortion of a child of mine I would be looking for a good lawyer.

marktheshark
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by marktheshark »

Lizzy60 wrote:Social media does not equal "private."

You actually stated the correct word -- tolerance.

First we abhor the sin, then we tolerate it, and then we embrace it. This is the ongoing pattern of the natural man. The slippery slope. The only sure path is standing firmly on the Rock, who is Christ. He loves all mankind, He atoned for us all, but He does not tolerate sin in even the least degree. He abhors it, and homosexuality and abortion are the sins that will bring the wrath of God upon this nation.
Social media isn't private, but the public expression of a private belief. Affiliation to groups that promote it are what the Church does not want of its members.

Elder C said that through loving persuasion they wish people to embrace our long established doctrine on the matter, yet they cannot force, compel or coerce people to believe that just because they hold high offices within the priesthood.


This does NOT sound like a cave in to me at all. You saying it's a cave in is absolutely not accurate and gives the wrong idea about what had actually been said and done.

marktheshark
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Re: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

Post by marktheshark »

Fiannan wrote:Marktheshark, if these issues are so important then why did the Church not support it until now?
Probably to avoid the public misconceptions that have been spread by ignorant media that Mormons are intolerant bigots that hate gay people.


Doctrine has not changed. This is important. Doctrine and the official stance at the pulpit on the matter has not been altered. The Family Proclamation stands firm.

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