How Cults Work

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Sirocco
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Sirocco » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:12 am

Yeah English does that a LOT its far more our language is weird then any other force.
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Joel » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:45 am

Before the photoshop job :)

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Joel » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:55 am

Before the photoshop job :)

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby KMCopeland » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:05 am

Fiannan wrote:Speaking of cults. Image
Sour grapes.
“If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end; if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth; only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin, and in the end, despair.” C.S. Lewis

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Sirocco » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:31 am

I remember I told missionaries I don't trust my feelings, I forget the context (it wasn't about the church or truth or anything).

But I do remember how different they approached me, I think they could see how different I was, obviously not the extent I truly was, I didn't let on how much I knew. I find people and psychology quite interesting, just watching others is fascinating to me.
Very interesting indeed.

I could never see a scenario where I actually feel guilty for watching pornography or drinking tea...
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Jim Kelley » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:55 am

May I quote KMCopeland, "I think we give Satan far too much credit for things he probably didn't have a hand in. Seems to me he's probably got bigger fish to fry than to spend a lot of time changing the meanings of words."

This is one of the biggest mistakes a Christian can make is to think Satan is to busy with bigger fish than to do something seemingly insignificant like changing the meaning of some words. Obviously changing the meaning of words can have a big impact on Satan's power in perverting the true meaning of scripture which is expressed in words.

1/3 of the Heavenly Host went with Satan and are working 24/7 for him because they don't sleep and they know the end is near for them to be able to do anything else in their evil deeds. 1/3 would be in the billions with a "B."

I agree with the concept Satan wants the bigger fish and that is exactly why every Mormon should be on guard to expect a direct attact on The Church leadership. What bigger fish could there be than The True Church and the priesthood leadership?

To many Mormons are asleep (Ether 8:24) and this is exactly why Satan has so much power in this world.

Brother Jim

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Fiannan » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:02 am

KMCopeland wrote:
Fiannan wrote:Speaking of cults. Image
Sour grapes.

No, you miss the point of Aesop's fable. It would be proper to say "sour grapes" if people who oppose Obama would say they wanted him to win anyway, maybe just to make a point. I was pointing out that Obama devotes have a cult-like mentality, not limited to projecting their inner-most hoped-for desires onto a mere mortal controlled by Wall Street financiers and the military-industrial complex.
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby KMCopeland » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:16 am

Jim Kelley wrote:May I quote KMCopeland, "I think we give Satan far too much credit for things he probably didn't have a hand in. Seems to me he's probably got bigger fish to fry than to spend a lot of time changing the meanings of words."

This is one of the biggest mistakes a Christian can make is to think Satan is to busy with bigger fish than to do something seemingly insignificant like changing the meaning of some words. Obviously changing the meaning of words can have a big impact on Satan's power in perverting the true meaning of scripture which is expressed in words.
There are things that mortals do that play into Satan's hands. Things that he may be happy about, but that he really didn't spend much time or effort on. I feel sure the evolution of meanings of words, if indeed it contributes to the overall sinfulness of man which is far from certain, would be one of them. But whether he has a hand in that or not doesn't matter. What matters is it's not something we can do anything about. And there's the more important point, that there's real danger, when you worry about things we have no control over, of missing the things that we do. The big things. Things that we actually can do something about. Changes in language over time? Boy I wouldn't waste my time on that. Save your strength for the battles you actually have a chance of winning.
Jim Kelley wrote:1/3 of the Heavenly Host went with Satan and are working 24/7 for him because they don't sleep and they know the end is near for them to be able to do anything else in their evil deeds. 1/3 would be in the billions with a "B."
So why would they spend a minute on things that happen without their help?
Jim Kelley wrote:I agree with the concept Satan wants the bigger fish and that is exactly why every Mormon should be on guard to expect a direct attact on The Church leadership.
How would we deal with that, if and when it comes? And if they are all they & we claim, why in the world would they have a thing to worry about?
Jim Kelley wrote:What bigger fish could there be than The True Church and the priesthood leadership?
Individual ability to tell right from wrong, in large numbers of individuals. It's a much bigger prize.
“If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end; if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth; only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin, and in the end, despair.” C.S. Lewis

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby KMCopeland » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:11 pm

Fiannan wrote:
KMCopeland wrote:
Fiannan wrote:Speaking of cults. Image
Sour grapes.
No, you miss the point of Aesop's fable. It would be proper to say "sour grapes" if people who oppose Obama would say they wanted him to win anyway, maybe just to make a point. I was pointing out that Obama devotes have a cult-like mentality, not limited to projecting their inner-most hoped-for desires onto a mere mortal controlled by Wall Street financiers and the military-industrial complex.
The fox in the fable really, really wanted the grapes, and when he couldn't get them he walked away, saying to himself: "They were probably sour anyway." I'm quite sure that if you saw a snapshot of someone cheering for Putin for instance, you'd be quite sure he deserved it. But since it's for someone you don't like, it must be cult-like. I'm sorry. I think it's a very apt comparison.
“If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end; if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth; only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin, and in the end, despair.” C.S. Lewis

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Fiannan » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:32 pm

I'm quite sure that if you saw a snapshot of someone cheering for Putin for instance, you'd be quite sure he deserved it. But since it's for someone you don't like, it must be cult-like. I'm sorry. I think it's a very apt comparison.

Never seen anything in the Russian press like this worship: Image
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby KMCopeland » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:01 pm

Fiannan wrote:
I'm quite sure that if you saw a snapshot of someone cheering for Putin for instance, you'd be quite sure he deserved it. But since it's for someone you don't like, it must be cult-like. I'm sorry. I think it's a very apt comparison.
Never seen anything in the Russian press like this worship: Image
You must not be looking very hard. Wonder why that is. (I don't really.)

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

http://tinyurl.com/n9p6k5m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end; if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth; only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin, and in the end, despair.” C.S. Lewis

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Fiannan » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:09 pm

I have been to Russia many times, have you KMC? They no more worship Putin than my parents worshiped John F. Kennedy by having a portrait of him in the living room.

You don't get it, do you? Sure people like JFK and Putin, and to a degree Ronald Reagan, have a cult of personality going on but the intensity of that displayed by many, not most but a disturbingly large percentage, of Obama supporters goes beyond the traditional admiration of a leader and does display a religious devotion. Obama is a war monger but his followers believe he is another Ghandi, he negotiates secret trade deals and his followers excuse it the way a cult member excuses abuse by a leader, and he pretends to care but I see no reason to believe he does.
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby KMCopeland » Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:14 am

Fiannan wrote:I have been to Russia many times, have you KMC?
You'd be surprised.
Fiannan wrote:They no more worship Putin than my parents worshiped John F. Kennedy by having a portrait of him in the living room.
And your goofball suggestion that all of Obama's supporters are mere cultists is just as far-fetched.
Fiannan wrote:You don't get it, do you? Sure people like JFK and Putin, and to a degree Ronald Reagan, have a cult of personality going on but the intensity of that displayed by many, not most but a disturbingly large percentage, of Obama supporters goes beyond the traditional admiration of a leader and does display a religious devotion.
Horsesh!t.
Fiannan wrote:Obama is a war monger
He's nothing of the sort. If he were a war monger he would have enthusiastically supported Dubya's war on Iraq, which he adamantly opposed. He just has no problem dealing with bad behavior -- most of which being a direct result of that debauched, grotesque, utterly senseless debacle -- decisively. He doesn't like it. But he knows it's his job, so he does it. Well.

And it's a bit precious for someone who worships Putin like you do to object to war-mongering in anyone, much less in someone so reluctant to wage war. I'm amazed you don't have whiplash.
Fiannan wrote:but his followers believe he is another Ghandi
Some of his followers think that. A negligible few -- like Kennedy's, and Reagan's and Putin's and any number of people's have always been, and always will be. Get it right or don't say it.
Fiannan wrote:he negotiates secret trade deals and his followers excuse it the way a cult member excuses abuse by a leader
He is negotiating one trade deal in a sub rosa way that many of his followers are most upset with, including me. Watch the blanket statements and broad generalities. It minimizes your credibility.
Fiannan wrote:and he pretends to care but I see no reason to believe he does.
And you see no reason to believe that Bruce Jenner was miserable as a man. The fact that you don't see such things isn't evidence that they aren't there.
“If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end; if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth; only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin, and in the end, despair.” C.S. Lewis

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Bee Prepared » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:16 am

Jim Kelley wrote:May I quote KMCopeland, "I think we give Satan far too much credit for things he probably didn't have a hand in. Seems to me he's probably got bigger fish to fry than to spend a lot of time changing the meanings of words."

This is one of the biggest mistakes a Christian can make is to think Satan is to busy with bigger fish than to do something seemingly insignificant like changing the meaning of some words. Obviously changing the meaning of words can have a big impact on Satan's power in perverting the true meaning of scripture which is expressed in words.

1/3 of the Heavenly Host went with Satan and are working 24/7 for him because they don't sleep and they know the end is near for them to be able to do anything else in their evil deeds. 1/3 would be in the billions with a "B."

I agree with the concept Satan wants the bigger fish and that is exactly why every Mormon should be on guard to expect a direct attact on The Church leadership. What bigger fish could there be than The True Church and the priesthood leadership?

To many Mormons are asleep (Ether 8:24) and this is exactly why Satan has so much power in this world.

Brother Jim
" Too many Mormons are asleep"? Oh the irony in that statement. Wide awake is following the prophet, not the precepts of man, paying our tithing, recognizing the ravenous wolves in sheep clothing deceiving those driving wildly along the wrong road, relying on their own intellect rather than the spirit, till the spirit no longer influences them. Asleep, I think not.

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Fiannan » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:33 am

Wow KMC, really stirred up the 'ol sub conscious, didn't I? Sorry to have ruffled your feathers. Yeah, one trade deal...a trade deal that pretty much prison rapes the masses, gives corporations power that look like those in the original Rollerball or Robocop, threatens the environment, freedom of expression and privacy. Yes, there are a few awake Democrats like Robert Reich...doesn't that tell you something KMC? Obama is a fraud!

As for war let us not forget Libya, arming head-choppers in Syria who are trying to overthrow Assad, arming an oppressive regime in Saudi Arabia that is waging war on Yemen and destabilizing Ukraine.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Tony » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:25 pm

Lizzy60 wrote:Miss Pink Death --

If you REPLACE God with something or someone else, that can lead to cultism. Putting your trust in God, and Him alone, and worshipping Him and no other, is not a cult.
I agree. You look ahead and you see the prophet. You look a little further and you see Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is leading His prophet on the earth. If you choose to do something other than follow the prophet, you cannot follow Christ and could end up following an apostate who tells you that you are being led by Jesus Christ and that Jesus Christ no longer has a prophet to lead his Church. People who are not following the prophet cannot see that he is being led by Jesus Christ.
Look ahead and you see the prophet. Look a little further and you see that he is being led by Jesus Christ. You cannot follow Jesus Christ unless you follow the prophet. Those who have chosen a different path have been deceived by Satan.

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Joel » Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:53 pm

Jehovah's Witness parents shunning children
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Joel » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:15 am

Jesus Camp follows several young children as they prepare to attend a camp called ‘Kids on Fire’, a Christian summer camp run by Becky Fischer. Through interviews with Fisher, the children, and others, Jesus Camp illustrates the unswerving belief of the faithful — a housewife and home-schooling mother tells her son that creationism has all the answers, footage from inside the camp shows young children weeping and wailing as they promise to stop their sinning, child after child is driven to tears. These scenes are contrasted with clips from another Christian radio host who is appalled by such tactics. Are these children being brainwashed?
Watch Jesus Camp here
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Betadynamique » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:29 am

Most often, the accusation about LDS being a cult comes from other Christians who have lost the Spirit per their own idolatry, so they stagnate in their churches, and their membership dwindles or their Nicolaitans become ever more scandalous, and they need to cast aspersions against others to justify themselves. It's very hypocritical, especially when real cults seek after death or destruction, whether they're killing themselves with poisoned kool-aid, or going out in a blaze of glory, or whatever the miserable circumstances the Fearless Leader has conjured up for them. Even the most dangerous cults in the world are political systems, not necessarily religious, but those having an occult philosophy behind a secular agenda, or what the LDS calls "secret combinations".

It's very ironic because one could argue that Joseph Smith started a new religion to help people get away from cults, but the accusation can only be made so many times before it's trite. It's a similar situation with Jehovah's Witnesses, because they are Christians and they're not a cult, but their theology is radically different from European polytheism. If you look at Christianity, and you believe in the Spirit, that is, the spirit of holiness, the Holy Ghost, you'll see there are "heretics" which are actually taking on the responsibility for their faith. So you have the LDS, the JW's and the Messianic Judaism, as well as countless "non-denominational" ones, and this is to be expected as Israel reappears as a real nation-state on the face of the earth in preparation for the return of Messiah. It's difficult to read the Bible and pretend like that Israel mentioned in there is some imaginary ideal when the Prime Minister of Israel shows up in DC to give a speech to the US Congress, you see?

What should you do when the restoration theology proves true and the replacement theology proves false, yet your Church still teaches that Jesus Christ has abolished the old covenant with Israel and given the new covenant to the gentiles? Well, you hammer down on dogma, you accuse others of being cults, and you watch as your membership walks out because they're not really Israelites and that Scientology or whatever has something better to offer them.
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Joel » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:04 pm

Before the photoshop job :)

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Joel » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:28 pm



The Church of Scientology forced Leah Remini to go through "thought modifications" for questioning the leaders of the church.

Couple of videos http://www.today.com/popculture/leah-re ... ing-t32356
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Sirocco » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:32 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntiPIVSiysQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Joel » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:03 am

Sirocco wrote:
Definitely cult behavior! :))
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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Joel » Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:24 pm

Before the photoshop job :)

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Stourme » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:04 am

This thread should be locked because the link leads Cultwatch which list Mormon's as a cult on it's home page.

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby jwharton » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:24 am

I don't think this thread should be locked. I think we should examine ourselves and our religion and purge any cultish tendencies.

Zion is not a cult. It is a kingdom of sovereigns who all stand equal before Celestial Law with principles of the utmost justice.

Cults are cliques where the people begin to ignore the written law and begin to depend upon personalities they start to idolize.

This thread deserves the full attention of every latter-day saint.

If we pollute and turn the holy church of God into a cult, there will be hell to pay.
Reality influences perception.
Perception creates reality.

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Stourme » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:59 am

jwharton wrote:I don't think this thread should be locked. I think we should examine ourselves and our religion and purge any cultish tendencies.
Our? Really?

This is an LDS support forum not a, lets flirt with the anti's forum...

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby jwharton » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:51 am

Stourme wrote:
jwharton wrote:I don't think this thread should be locked. I think we should examine ourselves and our religion and purge any cultish tendencies.
Our? Really?

This is an LDS support forum not a, lets flirt with the anti's forum...
How can you purge something you don't recognize?
We need our eyes more fully opened to that which is cultish tendencies so that we can PURGE it.
I suppose there might be some narcissists who might decide having a cult is a good way to take advantage of others and venture into that realm...
More than likely, it is those who want to abuse or be abused who would object to people learning how to shrug off cultist mentalities.
Reality influences perception.
Perception creates reality.

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby butterfly » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:45 pm

jwharton wrote:I also highly recommend people look into how Monarch Mind-Control works.
Knowing its devices and how practitioners of it use it against you can keep you safe.
The reason it is called Monarch is because it always involves a King-God figure you must please.
You will be entrained as quickly as possible to shift your devotions from God to this person.
If you show resistance you will have something contrived against you to try and fracture you.
You will be ruthlessly chastened for the first thing they can get ahold of for that purpose.
If you keep a cool head and plead innocence and disbelieve their accusations you are "prideful".
They go to whatever extent of mental torture necessary to get you to crack. This is intentional.
When you do this you are actually having a type of schizophrenia induced upon you they will use.
When you are put under extreme duress and crack, it happens as a stress coping mechanism.
When you crack it puts you into a very pure, innocent and even euphoric state, like a new baby.
This new fracture of your psyche is also like a little child, easy to be conditioned and controlled.
The whole point of Monarch Mind-Control is to exploit people to get them into this mode.
This question may seem ridiculous, but I am asking in all seriousness. What is the difference between being possessed by an evil spirit and being possessed by a good one?
Obviously, an evil spirit will direct you to do evil and a good spirit will direct you to do good.

Alma 34:34 "...for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world."
Are we supposed to be possessed? Is this saying that a spirit other than ourselves should constantly inhabit our bodies?

From what little I know about mind control, the idea is to create an alternate identity/ego within the individual, like a Jekyll and Hyde scenario. In the quote above, it explains how after a victim "cracks" under the extreme trauma, they enter a very pure and innocent state and can be taught and controlled. This made me think of Mosiah 3:19

19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

At first glance, it seems that the process is different - mind control forces this alternate psyche to emerge via torture, while the scriptures say that we must choose to allow the alternate ego to emerge. It also seems that the outcome is the same. With mind control, the victim is like a little child and can essentially be reprogrammed to carry out evil acts. With possession by the Holy Spirit, the psyche of the natural man is what cracks, and man becomes as a child, willing to submit to all things.
Obviously, one path is forced upon us while we choose the other one. But how do we retain our agency when we are allowing ourselves to be possessed by a good spirit and following whatever it dictates?

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Re: How Cults Work

Postby Stourme » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:52 pm

butterfly wrote:
jwharton wrote:I also highly recommend people look into how Monarch Mind-Control works.
Knowing its devices and how practitioners of it use it against you can keep you safe.
The reason it is called Monarch is because it always involves a King-God figure you must please.
You will be entrained as quickly as possible to shift your devotions from God to this person.
If you show resistance you will have something contrived against you to try and fracture you.
You will be ruthlessly chastened for the first thing they can get ahold of for that purpose.
If you keep a cool head and plead innocence and disbelieve their accusations you are "prideful".
They go to whatever extent of mental torture necessary to get you to crack. This is intentional.
When you do this you are actually having a type of schizophrenia induced upon you they will use.
When you are put under extreme duress and crack, it happens as a stress coping mechanism.
When you crack it puts you into a very pure, innocent and even euphoric state, like a new baby.
This new fracture of your psyche is also like a little child, easy to be conditioned and controlled.
The whole point of Monarch Mind-Control is to exploit people to get them into this mode.
This question may seem ridiculous, but I am asking in all seriousness. What is the difference between being possessed by an evil spirit and being possessed by a good one?
Obviously, an evil spirit will direct you to do evil and a good spirit will direct you to do good.

Alma 34:34 "...for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world."
Are we supposed to be possessed? Is this saying that a spirit other than ourselves should constantly inhabit our bodies?

From what little I know about mind control, the idea is to create an alternate identity/ego within the individual, like a Jekyll and Hyde scenario. In the quote above, it explains how after a victim "cracks" under the extreme trauma, they enter a very pure and innocent state and can be taught and controlled. This made me think of Mosiah 3:19

19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

At first glance, it seems that the process is different - mind control forces this alternate psyche to emerge via torture, while the scriptures say that we must choose to allow the alternate ego to emerge. It also seems that the outcome is the same. With mind control, the victim is like a little child and can essentially be reprogrammed to carry out evil acts. With possession by the Holy Spirit, the psyche of the natural man is what cracks, and man becomes as a child, willing to submit to all things.
Obviously, one path is forced upon us while we choose the other one. But how do we retain our agency when we are allowing ourselves to be possessed by a good spirit and following whatever it dictates?
An evil spirit takes control away from you. But good spirit gives you direction and lets you choose to follow the direction. A good spirit follows the law of free agency.


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