So you believe that Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews, steeped in symbolism, was some sort of fool? That he actually thought Jesus was telling him to enter into his mother's womb a second time when he was just talking about a spiritual change? I invite you to reconsider what you believe and why you believe it.DRC53 wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2017, 7:41 amJesus was not teaching anything about multiple mortal lives in the John 3:3-7 scriptures. He clearly said that He was referring to being born again through the Spirit, which we're taught means through baptism and the Holy Ghost.janderich wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2017, 6:30 amThe concept of multiple probations is not an endless nightmare nor does it negate the purpose of the atonement.Red wrote: ↑March 22nd, 2017, 10:39 pmHow horrible would it be to run through the never-ending Choose Your Own Adventure only to never quite remember the bad choices that put you in the bad ending and then have to keep starting over to re-guess? That's a Sisyphean nightmare that seems to negate the purpose of the Atonement. I prefer to believe that God is incredibly merciful so He will forgive me and I don't have to try to figure it out again in another mortality. Besides, I really like my husband. I don't want to start over with someone else.
First, there is an end. It comes when we have put that last great enemy, death, under our feet.
Second, there is a purpose. We do not pointlessly repeat, we begin where we left off. We go from one capacity to another learning and growing.
Third, MMP does not negate the atonement. We all need the atonement, including when we repent and when we are resurrected.
"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ...Marvel not that I said unto thee, ye must be born again" (John 3:3-7)
I invite you to more fully consider this doctrine taught by the Savior, Joseph, Brigham, and other early apostles of this dispensation.
Neither Joseph nor Brigham taught multiple mortal lives. Joseph explicitly stated as referenced at the same citation as the JFS quote, that reincarnation is of the devil.
Here is Brigham Young on the matter: "Christ's words to Nicodemus seem to have troubled him considerably; he could not understand this New Birth. ...To get language to convey my ideas, perhaps would be difficult; but I will try to make you understand me. Nicodemus comes and says how can I be born again? How can I understand this new birth? I am old, I cannot be born again, but says Jesus, if you and the whole Jewish nation understood things in heaven, you would see how you, and all Israel could be born again... It amounts to this; a man must be converted from error to truth, born again to see the truth. If he has imbibed error, and is born again, and then imbibes erors again, he will be like the old lady, who was about 80 years old, and who had to be born over and over and over again, on account of her man [blank] and I don't know but he would want to be born over and over and over again. (The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young, Vol. 2 p 871-874)
Joseph Smith did not say reincarnation was of the devil. Although, I agree with you that reincarnation as it is taught is not true doctrine. Joseph instead was speaking of a doctrine taught by a a man called Joshua who believed that the scheme of eternal life consisted of a person's soul transmigrating from father to son. It is regarding this doctrine that Joseph said, "I told him that his doctrine was of the devil, that he was in reality in possession of a wicked and depraved spirit" (TPJS p 105). When I speak of MMP I am talking of our same spirit coming down again after a long time in the eternal world to face challenges again. Not transmigration of souls.