Garments/Temple Robes Shown in new Church Video

[Obrien]

Hey Obrien, are you the first to use the phrase "Poelman hole" because if you are, you totally need to trademark that. So awesome!!
Vey Mormon, and very fitting.

I don't know. I've never heard it used before, but I get inspiration from my avatar name (Obrien from 1984... :ymdevil: )

[Lizzy60]

Hey Obrien, are you the first to use the phrase "Poelman hole" because if you are, you totally need to trademark that. So awesome!!
Vey Mormon, and very fitting.

I don't know. I've never heard it used before, but I get inspiration from my avatar name (Obrien from 1984... :ymdevil: )

I figured that was the case. It's eerie how 1984 is becoming more relevant by the day.

[Obrien]

by the way Lizzy60... 2 +2=5, RIGHT!!!???!!!

[Lizzy60]

by the way Lizzy60... 2 +2=5, RIGHT!!!???!!!

That should be easy to verify, using Common Core math. :))

[Obrien]

=)) =)) =))

[Joe Gardner]

This appears to be a really good case of marketing manipulation. Pretty music, frame your conclusion by showing examples of what other religions do in the first half of the video, and then tie it all together as if this was how it was always done with a company logo at the very end so we know it came from the prophet. Thank you audio visual committee for making me feel like my church is flowing with constant revelation.
This is how traditions begin.

[oneClimbs]

It's a video that makes a point about garments and sacred vestments. Why does everything have to have a negative slant? Oh look what Jesus is doing now, eating with sinners eh?

[vaquero]

Indeed the robes and garments are sacred as is what transpires in initiatory and the endowment room. However, the covenant not to disclose goes to key words, signs, and tokens. Virtually all else is in scripture.

The fall is explicitly taught in Moses and Genesis. Temple vestments are described in Exodus, as the film sets forth. Books by Nibley, Parry, and others have detailed diagrams from antiquity showing temple vestments and the markings on garments. The latter may also be seen in Facsimile 2, panel 7. Much on the temple, robes, changing from one shoulder to the other, the veil, etc., is graphically displayed in tombs in Egypt and at Luxor.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

I'm wondering if my point is being misunderstood here.

[oneClimbs]

I'm wondering if my point is being misunderstood here.

Haha, I get your point. I think sometimes we can all focus too much on certain things that it's all we see sometimes. Like a zit on someone's forehead. You tend to ignore all the good qualities of someone when that's staring you in the face.

For all the flaws that most of us see, all the ordinances point to the same places they have always pointed. The scriptures, the prophecies all the things we've found and cherish have come from our association with this group of people and these traditions.

I'm not a Utahite, I'm a Texan and I don't have a family history with the church. All that I have and know I owe to those who have kept alive these things. Despite all the horrible things people think are going on, people continue to keep finding their way in spite of all that. Interesting don't you think? I'm convinced that there is a great test going on.

I believe the time will come when an actual physical sifting will occur and the wheat will be divided from the tares, but I don't look forward to that day. I hope we have years and years to continue to help people and save souls. As of now, we still have time and instead of investing all this effort in criticizing, let's focus on people, one by one and stop using the organization as a scapegoat for all that's wrong.

Because the things it does right are incredible when we have eyes to see and hands that serve.

[SkyBird]

I didn't see this posted previously.

LDS Church releases video, topic page discussing temple garments
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7656 ... ments.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I dunno how to embed the video, but someone else can if they want to.

I have mixed feelings about the video, but I'll leave that alone until I decide what I think. But I can say, it's out of the ordinary, to me. I remember when I received my endowment, a non-endowed friend came with me to the distribution center when I went to buy my temple clothing, and they were NOT permitted to come to the area with me when I was shown the temple clothing/tried it on. I had always been instructed not to show anyone my temple clothing, and everyone I knew over the years would keep their robes, etc. hidden when laundering/washing/drying them.

I'm curious as to what you think. One of the comments on the article stuck out to me:

UT Brit
London, England

The video clearly violates the church handbook of instructions book 1.If I had made a video a few weeks ago showing the same things I would have been excommunicated. These things are supposed to be sacred!

8:29 a.m. Oct. 20, 2014

I thought the video was well done...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsLrVpeodog" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... I like the message and feeling I got from watching it... It was obvious to me the message of the temple clothing and robes of all religions is symbolic and metaphorical. The sacredness is therefor not found in the garments, temple clothes or robes... its how we nurture the and regard "new man" we are "putting on" spiritually. That is the true meaning of this video...IMO

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
(New Testament | Ephesians 4:24)

[Obrien]

Jules - I get your message. I think it has to do with a sandy foundation, and the shifting that may occur therein...

[jockeybox]

The juxtaposition of "newest" as the opposite of "highest" was the biggest non-sequitur in the whole video.

I might mark that in my propaganda thread ;)
Even if it was unintentional, it's the result of years/decades of conditioning.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

I'm wondering if my point is being misunderstood here.

Haha, I get your point.

I'm pretty sure based upon every post of your since my posts, that you don't. But that's OK.

[brlenox]

It seems to me that the church is trying more and more to make sure that NOBODY views Mormons as a "peculiar people" - to the point that they slowly and subtly change policies, mold and compromise scripture and doctrine, and violate the things LDS have held most sacred - to "fit in" with the crowd. (Who knows where that prophecy is that when the church is no longer viewed as different from others, that we're toast??) The church is doing a dang good job of fulfilling that prophecy - among others.

Perhaps it is simply similar to the story behind the publication of the house of the Lord. Some folks sneak into the SLC temple and take pictures of sacred areas including the most sacred the Holy of Holies. They send the church a letter demanding 100,000 to not publish the photos. Joseph F. Smith refuses to deal with the criminals. James E. Talmage suggests they take the wind out of the sails of the perpetrators by prempting by publishing a book that explains temples, their use and has photographs including one of the Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake Temple.

The house of the Lord was published in 1912 before the perpetrators published anything and that was the end of the story.

Might it be, it it possible, could it be so that perhaps they are trying to simply use a similar gambit to undermine a bit of the anti-mormon sentiment so they will have less to sensationalize?

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Jules - I get your message. I think it has to do with a sandy foundation, and the shifting that may occur therein...

yep - hypocrisy, as well as being a "progressive church" instead of one built on a firm foundation.

I couldn't care less if garments are on the internet. I care that I'm seeing the above unfold so brazenly and so frequently and that it's growing exponentially, and so many hide behind the safety of those scales.

[brlenox]

Jules - I get your message. I think it has to do with a sandy foundation, and the shifting that may occur therein...

yep - hypocrisy, as well as being a "progressive church" instead of one built on a firm foundation.

I couldn't care less if garments are on the internet. I care that I'm seeing the above unfold so brazenly and so frequently and that it's growing exponentially, and so many hide behind the safety of those scales.

And you thought your post was being misunderstood. Looks like it was pretty clear... :-B

[Obrien]

Jules - I get your message. I think it has to do with a sandy foundation, and the shifting that may occur therein...

yep - hypocrisy, as well as being a "progressive church" instead of one built on a firm foundation.

I couldn't care less if garments are on the internet. I care that I'm seeing the above unfold so brazenly and so frequently and that it's growing exponentially, and so many hide behind the safety of those scales.

imagine if obrien had taken it upon himself to tastefully expose the garments and the temple robes on the forum last week. I would have been roundly criticized and condemned for castng pearls before swine. as it turns out, the church does it, and the TBMs carry the water for the appropriateness of the release. it's crazy.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Jules - I get your message. I think it has to do with a sandy foundation, and the shifting that may occur therein...

yep - hypocrisy, as well as being a "progressive church" instead of one built on a firm foundation.

I couldn't care less if garments are on the internet. I care that I'm seeing the above unfold so brazenly and so frequently and that it's growing exponentially, and so many hide behind the safety of those scales.

imagine if obrien had taken it upon himself to tastefully expose the garments and the temple robes on the forum last week. I would have been roundly criticized and condemned for castng pearls before swine. as it turns out, the church does it, and the TBMs carry the water for the appropriateness of the release. it's crazy.

YEP my friend! You get it!

OH but WAIT.... THEY can do it because they are PSRs!! 8-|

[Simon]

I believe that the main reasons we are not to show our garments outside the temple community are because eof its sacred symbols, but less because of its outer shape or design. In that videos non of these sacred symbols are seen, at least not with my little screen. When we cut these symbols out, and put them away, its okay for other people to see them... So, I have to admidt that I dont really find that videa that devastating.. I mean.. if we are honest, for thos who do not attend the temple, especially nonemembers, there is much ysticism about what we do in there, and mayby this simly helps a little to take that away...

Anyways.. just my thoughts

[brlenox]

imagine if obrien had taken it upon himself to tastefully expose the garments and the temple robes on the forum last week. I would have been roundly criticized and condemned for castng pearls before swine. as it turns out, the church does it, and the TBMs carry the water for the appropriateness of the release. it's crazy.

You folks expressing all of these negative opinions...the real question becomes do you get the point. When people do not really know why something occurs we can safely say they are ignorant. Those here on both sides of supporting and condemning this event must correctly acknowledge that our ignorance precludes being able to give any sort of a factual and correct assessement based on knowledge.

So the point...The point is that when you have nothing to go on of certainty but you go ahead and venture forth an opinion, that opinion being not based on any form of knowledge must of necessity be based on the nature of your own heart. That becomes the source that informs you of what you see when you observe a set of circumstances without understanding. Thus while you are judging others you are also setting up the perfect scenario to be judged. Are you charitable and kind in your evaluations or are you bitter and nasty and frankly evil in what your heart uses to color the image you see.

You have no information on this matter other than what you, yourself supplies. You have a choice to be thoughtful and kind as I suppose you wish others would be with you or you can be the bitter, twisted evil types of judges who are left to stink in thier own foul rotten illustrations of the darkness within their own soul.

Still in his mercy God in Alma 32 reminds us that:

Alma 32:19-20

19 And now, how much more cursed is he that knoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression?

20 Now of this thing ye must judge. Behold, I say unto you, that it is on the one hand even as it is on the other; and it shall be unto every man according to his work.

People around here make all sorts of claim for the special esoteric brand of knowledge they possess. Lets hope for your own sakes that it is not so much that now you must bear an even greater burden for the lack of charity and love that is manifest in obviosly darkened hearts that can only see condemnation for that for which they evidence that they have no knowledge...by their fruits...by their fruits ...and yours are rotten. In terms of the purpose of a probationary period ...that's the point.

[ajax]

I thought the video was tastefully done. It slays the sacred cow that somehow certain clothes shouldn't been seen.

THEY'RE JUST CLOTHES. They don't save. You just wear them in ritual. Which kinda makes brlenox's over the top, "rotten fruits" defense an exercise in hilarity.

Perhaps a statement will be forthcoming that prior policy was made "in absence of direct revelation".

[oneClimbs]

Does the average member have the right to make their own garments or build their own temples? No, that right belongs to whoever has the authority to do so. Wisdom and order people. Remember when Paul had to rebaptize people and when that lad was going around prophesying and they cast the devils out of her, or when the guy steadied the ark.

No, I understand you, Jules, I just tend to see it differently. Yes if an average member put up a site called herebegarments.com and did a tasteful job of displaying them, he'd probably be asked to take it down. Like it or not, there is a line of authority here, there has been since Jesus and again since Joseph. It's 2014 and the world is a very different place, lots pf people have been in charge and have done what they thought was best, even though it may have been dumb.

There are a lot of things today that i think are dumb but I'm open to the idea that there might be more that I don't understand. But in the mean time, I don't waste my time armchair quarterbacking things.

At the end of the day, this isn't a democracy, and I'm only responsible for my stewardships and efforts to help leaders succeed like Aaron and Hur did with Moses, or Daniel with Nebuchadnezzar or even Ammon with Lamoni.

Do I wish that things were a lot different with the Church, yes I do. But it is what it is, that's what we've got and here we are. What do we do? We focus on our relationship with God and people. Murmuring is pointless.

[Obrien]

imagine if obrien had taken it upon himself to tastefully expose the garments and the temple robes on the forum last week. I would have been roundly criticized and condemned for castng pearls before swine. as it turns out, the church does it, and the TBMs carry the water for the appropriateness of the release. it's crazy.

You folks expressing all of these negative opinions...the real question becomes do you get the point. When people do not really know why something occurs we can safely say they are ignorant. Those here on both sides of supporting and condemning this event must correctly acknowledge that our ignorance precludes being able to give any sort of a factual and correct assessement based on knowledge.

So the point...The point is that when you have nothing to go on of certainty but you go ahead and venture forth an opinion, that opinion being not based on any form of knowledge must of necessity be based on the nature of your own heart. That becomes the source that informs you of what you see when you observe a set of circumstances without understanding. Thus while you are judging others you are also setting up the perfect scenario to be judged. Are you charitable and kind in your evaluations or are you bitter and nasty and frankly evil in what your heart uses to color the image you see.

You have no information on this matter other than what you, yourself supplies. You have a choice to be thoughtful and kind as I suppose you wish others would be with you or you can be the bitter, twisted evil types of judges who are left to stink in thier own foul rotten illustrations of the darkness within their own soul.

Still in his mercy God in Alma 32 reminds us that:

Alma 32:19-20

19 And now, how much more cursed is he that knoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression?

20 Now of this thing ye must judge. Behold, I say unto you, that it is on the one hand even as it is on the other; and it shall be unto every man according to his work.

People around here make all sorts of claim for the special esoteric brand of knowledge they possess. Lets hope for your own sakes that it is not so much that now you must bear an even greater burden for the lack of charity and love that is manifest in obviosly darkened hearts that can only see condemnation for that for which they evidence that they have no knowledge...by their fruits...by their fruits ...and yours are rotten. In terms of the purpose of a probationary period ...that's the point.

Wow, I'm going to have to add these to the list of epithets I've gathered on the forum. I'm so thankful for your clear and loving concern for my soul, oh Mr. Wolf in Sheep.

Question (with a little background): I grew up in the era of no dry cleaning temple clothes and my mom hiding the "grownup" laundry from us kids. If you can remember all the back to last week, it was VERBOTTEN to display these things in public. A new era of openness has dawned, and our "sacred clothing" is now on display. For the record (whatever that means - don't be difficult Ajax), I couldn't care less. My gentile wife has washed, folded and removed mine for years without significant detriment to either of our souls. The video begs the bigger question: How can this new openness be accepted by the rank and file without even a flinch? What "policy" will have to change before you accept that people run the church with occasional inspiration rather than the inverse?

[ajax]

No, I understand you, Jules, I just tend to see it differently. Yes if an average member put up a site called herebegarments.com and did a tasteful job of displaying them, he'd probably be asked to take it down. Like it or not, there is a line of authority here, there has been since Jesus and again since Joseph.

A line of authority regarding already purchased and worn underwear?

Not sure Jesus cared as much as you think for "lines of authority" - (See order of post-resurrection visits) He actually seemed to kinda openly mock them.

Also:

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.