She wants to reduce male population by 90%

[Fiannan]

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/is-reduc ... r-problems" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And while this may sound crazy if you read what she says carefully she may be a proponent of a philosophy that many of the NWO types ultimately support. If you read what Russell and Huxley wrote on the ideal society, and then merge this with what could be called scientific feminism then...

You know, the Bible predicts a day of women out-numbering men by 7 to 1 and the Muslims believe it will be 50 to 1. Maybe it is not due to war.

[Darren]

Feminism is growing in our Church, and the men are dwindling in numbers, especially the young men.

Where Are The Men?
I’ve heard a few statistics of late that have left me scratching my head and asking “What’s up with men in the Church?” or better yet “Where are the men?”.

Consider these numbers:

Nearly 80% of the population of the Church is either female or under age 18.
In the recent missionary surge from roughly 55,000 missionaries to nearly 90,000 missionaries the majority of that additional 40,000 missionaries are women.
In any given ward there is nearly a 70/30 ratio of women to men (active).


As I thought about these statistics I asked myself: Why are men not coming to church? Why are men not being active at church and often falling away from the church in such large numbers? As I considered this, it occurred to me that we have (as a Church) actively and subconsciously driven men away. Our actions, words and activities methodically chase men away from Church in droves.



How? Think about this:

How often have you heard in a talk or a lesson where the speaker or instructor told all the men present that they are spiritually inferior to women? We are always saying how men will never be as holy as women, or that the sisters are way more spiritually in tune than men. We even say that men are given the priesthood because women are vastly superior and don’t need it. If women ran the church it’d be way more efficient. Sister missionaries are way better than elders. The overwhelming message is “You will never measure up because you are a guy and are a lost cause”. Even when we talk about things like modesty and the law of chastity the overwhelming message is “men are perverts and they can’t control themselves so you sisters have to do it for them.” I don’t know about you guys, but I get sick of hearing this kind of talk.
From an early age we tell boys that if they want to feel the spirit in their lives then they need to be more like the girls. Sit still like the girls. Sing songs like the girls. We associate feelings of love, peace, calm, beauty, joy, etc…with the feelings of the spirit and don’t talk about the more masculine spiritual moments of power, intelligence, courage, competition, energy, and even the ability to strike down an enemy. We imply that these feelings are not good, not of the spirit and that for boys to feel them is bad. When reality is that they are very much of the spirit.
We value an invented conformity and greatly discourage individualism. We discourage debate and discussion and instead say “if you are following the spirit then you wouldn’t ask questions. Our church was founded by a young man with a question who sought an answer!
I don’t know about you brethren but I find most Church music to be tediously dull and uninspiring. Frankly I could live without a lot of it. I do, however, find my soul stirred by a great mens chorus of “Rise Up O Men Of God” or “High On A Mountain Top” or “Praise to The Man” and such hymns. Sadly we tend to avoid those kinds of hymns in favor of the less rousing and calming ones.


I’d also suggest that the quality and quantity of our meetings is a deterrent to many men. Most of our meetings are truly a waste of time.

Just this last week I heard some men lamenting how poor attendance was at a Stake meeting, and then in the same breath these same guys said how they had a hard time staying awake during the meeting, alluding that it wasn’t holding their interest. If the meeting was so dull that people were falling asleep, then how can you blame people for not going? Especially the youth. If I’m bored in a meeting, I can only imagine how the young men are feeling. I also hardly expect them to return as a result.

Look at it from a business marketing perspective. If people are not buying your product, do you blame the consumer or do you try to figure out a better way to sell it to them? You either change the product or change the message to sell it...right?

The product that we have been given (the gospel of Jesus Christ) is AMAZING! So why are our marketing tactics so dull? If our meetings are not attracting people…then the quality of our meetings should be questioned, not the finger of scorn and blame pointed at the men who didn’t come. Look at it this way: If John Bytheway was coming to speak, we know we’d fill the entire building. Why? Because people know they are not wasting their time in attending. Now some people would respond to that with a “well, not everyone can speak like John Bytheway…” and that is true. Few people can. BUT we can try. We can do our best to improve our teaching, our public speaking and our presentation abilities. If we identify good teachers and speakers…then use them! We have an aversion to using the same speaker too often in the church and I don’t understand why. If that person can give a great sermon…then use them!!! Don’t continue to offer a sub-standard message and then complain that nobody wants it.

Men have to attend a lot of meetings in Church (too many if you ask me) and when the meeting is dull, slow, boring, uninspiring or pointless too many of them will begin to opt out. I know that is not the right thing to do…but honestly, when your time is limited between full-time job, Church calling and family obligations…pretty soon you begin to weigh options and determine where the best use of your time is (we call this “opportunity cost” in the business world). Frankly I don’t feel like I get to spend enough time with my family, especially my young children. So if the choice is between another dull and pointless church meeting and reading to my 7-year-old. Sorry church leaders, but my 7-year-old trumps you. I think that is occurring with many of the adult men around us.

We are called to do what Christ would do if He were here. He was a master teacher. He was an inspired leader. He didn’t do anything without a purpose (including holding meetings simply because it is on the schedule). He cared for the souls of people and he inspired them to a better cause…one they would be willing to die for.

How can we do anything less? Our task is clear. We are teachers, leaders and inspirers. Ours is the task to get the gospel into the hearts of the people in such a way as their burning testimonies will light up the world and people will want that light in their lives.

We can’t do that if we are hiding from our potential both as a speaker and as a hearer.

Let’s stop driving men away and rather inspire them to come follow us and be warriors in the kingdom of our Father. Let’s find new ways to be inspiring. Let’s think of some ways we can light the fires of faith and kindle ACTION among our men. Let’s have purposes to all that we do (meetings and activities).

http://ldssofhandbook.blogspot.com/2014 ... e-men.html

We need a new supportive movement for men and women's rolls in the Church, to lead the way for the world.

[Fiannan]

Darren, as usual your post is excellent!

I said this once before, when I joined the Church in the late 1970s one could imagine, if you were creating a brand logo, for the organization it would be a young couple starting a family. Nowadays it would be symbolized as an older, often single, middle-aged woman.

I will say this, the woman in my link who supports a feminist eugenics policy...you just know the men she would want to enable the mostly-female population to reproduce would not be wimpy, weak, feminized men. I know a woman who is now finishing medical school who has long held the exact ideas the woman in the article has. When I discussed who would survive in her ideal world she noted almost all her male friends would be sterilized, but also noted that she would want me preserved. So here she was a hyper feminist, and she knew my attitudes, but wanted those to be the characteristics of the 10%.

Women want strength. When my daughters watched the Noah movie they thought it was really cool when Noah was killing the soldiers trying to board his ark when the deluge began. One daughter did ask if prophets killed people. I said many had. She thought that was way more interesting than the more sanitized version.

Men in Church need their masculine qualities praised and encouraged, be they in physical strength or intellectual. I have been told many times by many women that if a woman wanted a man who acts like a woman they could just as easily marry a woman.

[mes5464]

Wow! That is really just evil.

[iWriteStuff]

daaaaaaaang, Jenny!

Anyone ever consider that the 10% wouldn't stand for being ruled by the 90%? The situation would be no different if the ratios were reversed.

Coming from my position, my wife likes it that I'm "the guy", that I do "guy" things and hold manly attitudes. I defend, protect, and provide for my family. I minister to them as well. My older brother is the passive "closer to female androgeny" side and I've been told that that attitude simply wouldn't have worked for my wife.

It's called "priesthood power" for a reason - not for us to be overlords of the weak and frail, but to be mighty and serve with strength and honor.

[Army Of Truth]

Men have to attend a lot of meetings in Church (too many if you ask me) and when the meeting is dull, slow, boring, uninspiring or pointless too many of them will begin to opt out. I know that is not the right thing to do…but honestly, when your time is limited between full-time job, Church calling and family obligations…pretty soon you begin to weigh options and determine where the best use of your time is (we call this “opportunity cost” in the business world). Frankly I don’t feel like I get to spend enough time with my family, especially my young children. So if the choice is between another dull and pointless church meeting and reading to my 7-year-old. Sorry church leaders, but my 7-year-old trumps you. I think that is occurring with many of the adult men around us.

:ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:

Thanks for posting that Darren! This is exactly how I feel because I've done this many times. "Family first" is the way it should be.

[Write_One]

Spending quality time with your spouse or children should always take priority over a pointless meeting. I get the impression with the way some stake and ward church leaders operate that they must think salvation is earned through scheduling meetings. The gospel is a simple and joyous truth. It should not be a burden to live. Endless time consuming meetings that serve no discernible purpose can make it a burden.

[Fiannan]

With IQ plunging in the developed world http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... cline.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; would her policies actually improve the human race's intelligence?

Just curious what you think. I mean with male infertility on the rise we may actually see more intelligent babies born when couples turn to screened sperm donors so they can have families. The ones who refuse to avail themselves of this will both just die out genetically.

Hey wait, you don't suppose Alex Jones is onto something with his dire predictions of a "Brave New World" do you?

[iWriteStuff]

Spending quality time with your spouse or children should always take priority over a pointless meeting. I get the impression with the way some stake and ward church leaders operate that they must think salvation is earned through scheduling meetings. The gospel is a simple and joyous truth. It should not be a burden to live. Endless time consuming meetings that serve no discernible purpose can make it a burden.

Howdy Write_One.

I can understand your thoughts on meetings. About 18 months ago, my wife gave birth to twin baby girls. Just prior to that I had been called into the EQ presidency. It's been hard to know, sometimes, how I should allocate my time. It's very difficult for my wife to do all the work when two babies require four hands. I have to balance my schedule accordingly and all the same, sometimes for health reasons we just don't attend for a week or two. Our twins were slightly premature and my wife lacks much of what one would consider a functioning immune system. It got to the point where the ward mission leader sent the sister missionaries after my wife to try to reactivate her. She wasn't inactive, she was sick or busy with sick girls. That attempt didn't go down so well.

At any rate, both her and I are called on to teach once a month, her in RS, me in EQ. Juggling it is tough, but we are making a greater effort to pull it off. All the same, we are looking at doing the same next year (ie: more kids) so I'm kind of wondering how that's going to play out on the ward stage. I think the Lord knows we are doing our best. The bishop understands. But I don't think our fellow wardies quite get it yet. Oh well, two for three ain't bad.

[Write_One]

I can sympathize with you and your wife, iWriteStuff.

I once had an EQ president in a singles ward call me in for a personal priesthood interview and expressed concern about my low home teaching numbers. I worked at a daily newspaper at the time and I explained that my work schedule required me to work most nights and weekends. That made it difficult to do home teaching consistently because I worked when the people I home taught were home and vice versa.

That EQ president had a priceless response. He informed me I needed to exercise more faith and simply ask my editor for time off to do my home teaching. I told him it wasn't a question of faith. No boss is going to give you time off work so you can go home teaching. I told him if I did what he suggested, I'd be looking for a new job. I said unless he could hire me onto another job with equal or better pay that he had no right to expect me to risk my job over home teaching. His response, again, was to simply say if I had more faith I could find a way to do my home teaching.

The problem with ward members like my former EQ president is they are quick to assume that if you can't serve in a calling perfectly and consistently, you must be lacking in faith or sliding into inactivity. Making such assumptions is dangerous. If you find out a ward member is dealing with things like family health issues or a tough work schedule that prevent full participation at Church, the best thing to do is to reach out and offer a helping hand or a sympathetic ear.

[Zowieink]

Yes, too many pointless, dull, meetings. However, sometimes dull is cause by us, our lack of vision, tiredness, stress, etc. What may be immensely important to the arranger of such meetings, those receiving may not feel the same way.

For me, its another meeting about missionary work. I am sick and tired of meetings about missionary work: sac. mtgs., stake conf. mtgs, ward council mtgs, priesthood quorum mtgs. etc. etc. etc. etc. What should happen is the arrangers of these meetings should engage us in valuable information, inspire us which interesting stuff, and LOL entertaining us somewhat. We as the receivers sitting in these meetings should be prepared to receive, be rested, and if we know what the meeting is about, have other maybe alternate ideas.

I believe that the male population of Church is much more susceptible to Satan, and thus fall or leave the Church. The time is coming when the Lord will arrange some "distractions to our worldly lives" that will bring us back.

[iWriteStuff]

Seems nature may be cooperating all too nicely on this matter:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 84241.html

[UncleDragon]

This is an interesting thread.

I have typed and retyped several paragraphs in comment. But none of it feels right, but it all boils down to men really engaged in the work empower other men. I have been blessed by those who were, and hope to bless others in a similar fashion.

My wife understands this, and has become a great enabler for me as a man to be the head...and by doing so she makes me want to hold that head up high. I wish more men had friends like I have had, and had a wife who lifted up instead of whittled down.

[Ezra]

Is she lds? Sounds like she is a very stong supporter of polygamy.

Lol.

My bishop once said and I completely agree.

Women set the hight of the bar. And men will always jump to reach it if it's set high enough.

The societal bar is low no jumping required. So that's the quality of men you get.

[WarMonger]

Be careful what you wish for you might get it!!
Isaiah 13:12
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

In the ward I attend only one YM (and he if from foreign country, Asian) active and 5-6 active Young women and not one young male single adult active and 6 female single young active adults. My wife teaches early morning seminary and only has two students both female.
I don't think most of the blame can be put on poor quality of meetings. I think the YM and YSA run away from the women in the church :-\ .

[Fiannan]

Be careful what you wish for you might get it!!
Isaiah 13:12
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

In the ward I attend only one YM (and he if from foreign country, Asian) active and 5-6 active Young women and not one young male single adult active and 6 female single young active adults. My wife teaches early morning seminary and only has two students both female.
I don't think most of the blame can be put on poor quality of meetings. I think the YM and YSA run away from the women in the church :-\ .

When I was younger the only thing that seemed to cause a few young men to go inactive, or seek girl friends outside the Church, was the harping about serving a full-time mission.

Now we have way too much emphasis on building up a hyper-super-ego within our youth which tends to actually cause many to form anxiety and fall away; many young women but far more young men. I am not talking about issues of avoiding sex outside of marriage, rather when leaders make a huge issue out of small things like if a girl gets her navel pierced or issues like pornography you may see more and more losses, but they will be weighted towards males. So with this demographic reality, unless we see a return to polygamy, many of our young women will either have to marry non-members, go to sperm banks or remain spinsters and contribute no children to replace themselves, thus meaning a decrease in members in time.

[mattctr]

This may be satire: ;)
Many feminists go on about equality with men, especially when it comes to illustrious jobs, titles, positions, etc. I don't think I've ever seen a feminist complaining about the lack of women in manual labor and construction trades. They don't want to build the Starbucks buildings; they just want to sit in their trendy, air-conditioned buildings and pontificate how much better this world would be if women held more top positions in comfy offices (built by-and-large by men). In my opinion, women should hold the same % of top jobs and positions as they do in trades like manual labor, landscaping, framing, concrete finishing, digging, etc. Until then, they really don't advocate "equality" but privilege on the shoulders of men. Let's face it, women tend to be really good at telling men to lift things, dig things, move things, and many other back-breaking tasks. Men are slaves.

Satire over. I'll go tend to my sore back now.

[WarMonger]

The basic teaching of the PH is service. our ward struggle to get youth PH holders to embrace service to others: doing chapel cleanup - never see much youth, getting youth to do home teaching - they just ignore you, and of course things like missionary work. I joined the church at 16y and did HT every month at lest monthly split off with missionaries etc. We had two missionaries return home from mission a month back both with dishonorable releases.

Our stake president was talking the other day about sin and that like Adam and Eve hid after eating the fruit they hid themselves. Our youth music and practices are not in harmony with holy ghost - so they hide themselves from the church, as they are not able to feel any affinity to the church.

Gods laws are immovable and the church will never reduce standards to accommodate the youth - Babylon is now too wicked, we need to somehow distance ourselves from the world.

[Fiannan]

The basic teaching of the PH is service. our ward struggle to get youth PH holders to embrace service to others: doing chapel cleanup - never see much youth, getting youth to do home teaching - they just ignore you, and of course things like missionary work. I joined the church at 16y and did HT every month at lest monthly split off with missionaries etc. We had two missionaries return home from mission a month back both with dishonorable releases.

Developing as a mature adult man entails a heck of a lot more than learning to be a janitor. Look up Dr. Robert Epstein's articles which condemn society even having the term "teenager" in its vocabulary. One hundred years ago many of the 16 year-old women were married and their marriages lasted and most 16 year-old males had a job or were learning a skill. Youth will grow to meet the expectations set for them. Remember, when Mary was impregnated with Jesus she was 14 and when David killed Goliath he too was just a 14 year-old red-headed "kid."

Our stake president was talking the other day about sin and that like Adam and Eve hid after eating the fruit they hid themselves. Our youth music and practices are not in harmony with holy ghost - so they hide themselves from the church, as they are not able to feel any affinity to the church.

Well, what kind of music are the youth playing at dances? Most of the stuff is mainstream pop and rap that is filled with unworthy messages of irresponsibility and sex while metal is frowned upon even though most of that genre is more intelligent and often spiritual. My other point would be that in the late 70s and the 80s girls went to Laurels activities and mixed youth activities wearing shorts and tight blouses or t-shirts and nobody said a word about it. Now we have some people in wards that ISIS would consider extreme and that turns young people off. Shall we compare devotion and activity in young members in 1980 to today? Shall we?

Gods laws are immovable and the church will never reduce standards to accommodate the youth - Babylon is now too wicked, we need to somehow distance ourselves from the world.

No, we only do that if the member is rich or holds an important political office. :-B

[OnGoing]

daaaaaaaang, Jenny!

Anyone ever consider that the 10% wouldn't stand for being ruled by the 90%? The situation would be no different if the ratios were reversed.

Coming from my position, my wife likes it that I'm "the guy", that I do "guy" things and hold manly attitudes. I defend, protect, and provide for my family. I minister to them as well. My older brother is the passive "closer to female androgeny" side and I've been told that that attitude simply wouldn't have worked for my wife.

It's called "priesthood power" for a reason - not for us to be overlords of the weak and frail, but to be mighty and serve with strength and honor.

I like your priesthood power definition! Yes, stand and be mighty. Serve with strength and honor.

Women don't want feminine men. I don't know how this idea was sold to society (by GAP selling skinny jeans?) but I am noticing a serious lack of masculine energy. And sadly those brothers who have that magnetic masculinity about them seem to be attracting more than their fair share of "sisterly" attention if you know what I mean. @-) ;)

[reese]

Until then, they really don't advocate "equality" but privilege on the shoulders of men. Let's face it, women tend to be really good at telling men to lift things, dig things, move things, and many other back-breaking tasks. Men are slaves.

Satire over. I'll go tend to my sore back now.

:))
This brings to mind a photo I have of me and my dad when I was a teenager. He is laying brick on the outside of our house. I am sitting in a lawn chair watching him, with a bowl of ice cream in my hand. I was not directing his work of course, just watching him.


As far as the rest of the thread, I agree about the dull meetings. Teenagers don't care about the pretenses of going to boring meetings every week and a lot of people are starting not to care as well, and I would say more men than women. I think women feel more guilty and are more willing to sit through the "punishment" of a dull meeting much more than a man is.

Maybe if we started doing this we could remedy the problem and it is a real problem we are facing.

9 And their meetings were conducted by the church after the manner of the workings of the Spirit, and by the power of the Holy Ghost; for as the power of the Holy Ghost led them whether to preach, or to exhort, or to pray, or to supplicate, or to sing, even so it was done.

[WarMonger]

Work and sacrifice are eternal principles - if one does not learn this how can one be successful on a mission or marriage or career. More woman are getting university education than men. It is nothing about being a janitor - it is about caring.

Church meetings are not boring - everyone expects to be entertained Hollywood style and want instant gratification - without putting any of their own effort in - just what can I get out of it attitude, but totally ignore the spiritual aspects.

[OneEternalRound]

Anyone seeking population reduction should first start with themselves...

She probably got hit in the face by a football and realized she would never be a teen model.

[Ezra]

I was thinking how boring movies would become without story's from adventure seeking males with near death experiences and pushing the limits. The music industry would suffer. It might be me but it seems in general women don't have the drive to create as much as males. Ie fast cars fancy houses advanced computer tech. I'm not saying they don't have creative ideas. I know many have and do. Just dosent seems to drive them like it doses guys.

What do you all think?

[DarthVernacular]

Men in Church need their masculine qualities praised and encouraged, be they in physical strength or intellectual. I have been told many times by many women that if a woman wanted a man who acts like a woman they could just as easily marry a woman.

A lot of the boys my high school-aged daughter associates with are jocks but they sure tend to act like girls (please forgive me the generalizations, ladies)--dramatic, won't tell why they are mad at someone, cry openly about relationship changes, care way too much about how their hair looks or their clothes.