How Shall We save It?

ChelC · Post by **ChelC** » November 8th, 2006, 3:51 pm

jd - you said it much better than I, and I agree that finding out about it really brings home the dangers we face... we shouldn't have to know those things to be compelled to listen to the prophets and heed their warnings and advice, but it does help.

Conspiracy theories instantly turn others off though - I guess it's just very individual, the way that presenting the gospel is individual. If we all listen to the Spirit and live in a way that we will be receptive to promptings, and prepare ourselves, we won't miss whatever it is we are to do.

ShawnC · Post by **ShawnC** » November 8th, 2006, 3:59 pm

I think Mark may have nailed this one pretty good. It does remind me of 3rd Nephi and even Mormon and Moroni who were teaching the people to know and serve the Lord is the only way to save them. Of course earlier in the Book of Mormon in Jacob he spoke of that the only thing that kept the people in line was constantly reminding them of the calamities and destruction's of the wicked. So a healthy balance between coming unto Christ and a good understanding of the evils that do exist may be the pattern or the way to follow in our battle. Just because you want something to happen doesn't mean it will. I have a brother who apostatized from the LDS church and joined Jim Harmstons TLC church down in Manti Utah. His life is consumed with things he thinks are, or wants to happen that never do like last days destruction's and such. The main beef he has with the Prophet is that the prophet is not doing what my brother thinks he should be, so therefore the prophet is somehow wrong.
When I first joined this site, I mentioned that I enjoy it when we keep humility and objectivity in mind. Please try to do so. Be careful not to "Remeumptum" yourself into thinking that you have been awakened and so many others have not. Only God knows our hearts. I come to this forum for a better understanding and different perspective than I get mostly on the world and such in church. Anyway, This is why I think Mark has such a good point. There is a lot of talk that changes nothing, but a strong desire to do something. Let's talk about how to focus that energy and desire and inspire each other and others to move in the direction of serving the Lord. To me, this is where the prophets want us to be headed. Need to get off my soap box now.

liberty · Post by **liberty** » November 8th, 2006, 4:03 pm

What is a secret combination if it is not a conspiracy?

AS in the days of the founding of this naction, the Lord is raising up wise and good men now who will restore this nation to a constitutional form of goverment for "the law will go out of Zion and the word of the Lord out of Jerusalem". This will occur after the "cleansing".

Liberty DH

Mark · Post by **Mark** » November 8th, 2006, 4:46 pm

I am sorry to hear about your Brother Shawn. I have someone close who got taken in by Harmstons bunch as well and after 10 years they are finally freeing themselves from all the bull crap. I found with them that when a false spirit gets ahold of someone its is tough as nails to bring them back to reality. These spirits will get people to do the darndest things including leaving family for the pursuit of "greater light and knowledge." The problem is that these people have gone so far beyond the mark in their pursuit that they are in a different galaxy. Just continue to love him and some day he will hopefully see these people for the deceivers that they really are. They have been wrong so many times in the past 10 years that you would think it would start to be clear which spirits they have been listening to.

I really believe that President Hinckley had us read the Book of Mormon again so that we can focus on doing as Nephi and many of the great prophets of that time were doing when things began to unravel in Nephite society. Preach the word and stand up for righteous principles and let the spirit enlighten others to join the great cause of the redemption of Zion. The anti-Christs will have their day of mischief but soon they will be powerless against a great army of faithful Priesthood holders who have stood their ground against this onslaught. Some will fall but many will endure and be filled with great power and authority to overcome Lucifers last final push before being thrust down to hell where he belongs.

John Adams · Post by **John Adams** » November 8th, 2006, 5:31 pm

So you're just telling me it's the old patience and preach the gospel solution? Well that's no fun at all (I hope the sarcasm comes through).

So we need to be bold enough to share with others to help them awaken as well, but humble enough to realize that there's nothing extra special about us supposedly already awakening?

Still the conversation I have over and over with close friends is that one side of me says this is nothing new and that we need to still live in the now, but the other side is that things really are getting extra close and we need to hasten our efforts (spiritually, physically, in our relationships, in our temporal preparedness, etc.)

The prophet always seems to find the balance, and I need to have it in my life (my wife is excellent at helping me not get too fanatical). But still, I continue to feel the urgency.

John Adams · Post by **John Adams** » November 8th, 2006, 5:37 pm

BTW, does anyone have the exact quote from Joseph Smith about the Elders of Israel saving the constitution? I seem to recall the Lundbaek posted it somewhere on this forum if I'm not mistaken, and I was wondering if he or someone else that has access to it could post it again on this thread. It's a good one.

SwissMrs&Pitchfire · November 8th, 2006, 6:39 pm

Not the quote about the times of gentiles fulfilled but close for now and a tremendous talk.

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6780

For Joseph Smith's quote as given through others type in "thread" in the search window on this sites homepage and you will have many references to choose from, as it was relayed through many who heard it. I do not think that Joseph ever personally recorded it.

Tribunal · Post by **Tribunal** » November 9th, 2006, 2:33 am

I just want to say that I will not disengage from this forum because I find all of you to be honorable patriots that I can learn from. I may disagree with some of your statements but I do believe you are of righteous intent.

I'm really happy that there are others like me out there. I just with there were more of us.

jbalm · Post by **jbalm** » November 9th, 2006, 5:54 am

So you're just telling me it's the old patience and preach the gospel solution? Well that's no fun at all (I hope the sarcasm comes through).

JD, you may have summed it all up, sarcasm notwithstanding.

We all seem to agree that the world and this nation in particular are on the brink of disastrous times, and some of us have been frustrated at the perceived lack of guidance from the church leadership. But maybe we are looking for detailed instructions where simple ones will suffice.

Conspiracy theories instantly turn others off though - I guess it's just very individual, the way that presenting the gospel is individual.

ChelC is absolutely correct. What I've noticed (stating the obvious to most here) is that as we strengthen ourselves spiritually, people notice that we build up a sort of quiet confidence that allows us to remain calm in bad situations. This kind of stability attracts people--makes them feel safe. As times get worse, those who are able to remain steady will be looked to for guidance. Most of us have probably seen this to a certain extent already, and I believe that this will increase exponentially as times get worse. This is what will make others listen to us, and the opportunities to preach repentance will be limitless.

Strengthening ourselves is the key. Everything else will follow. The prophets up through Pres. Benson focused more on telling us why--now the prophet is focusing more on telling us how.

Meanwhile, I think our discussions here are very healthy, and we can speak our minds freely without risking frightening off the "novices."

Lastly, I'm glad Mark is back.

Jim

ChelC · Post by **ChelC** » November 9th, 2006, 8:18 am

"What I've noticed (stating the obvious to most here) is that as we strengthen ourselves spiritually, people notice that we build up a sort of quiet confidence that allows us to remain calm in bad situations. This kind of stability attracts people--makes them feel safe. As times get worse, those who are able to remain steady will be looked to for guidance."

I never thought about that, but I do think you are right there.

I guess my frustration is that as I woke up I realized that all my plans to prepare had just been that - plans... I really was and still am not prepared. I feel a great urgency to prepare, and since waking up have much more motivation to do so. Should I have needed that motivation? No, but I think there are so many like me that would appreciate feeling the urgency and giving themselves more time to prepare.

I guess another thing we can do is try to stress the things we are doing like food storage, emergency preparedness, more fervently studying scripture and the words of our prophets, and share with those we love that for some reason we just feel a real urgency to get ready... if they ask then that's an opportunity, if not we will at least have reinforced those things to them.

I've just always been a person who thinks bigger than my own ability, I've always been a bit of a dreamer, so I want to do more.

ChelC · Post by **ChelC** » November 9th, 2006, 9:00 am

Hey Pitchfire (it's hard to call my brother that)

That talk is really good, and it does sum much of this up... we've been given the warnings time and time again, I think our prophet senses that we are in a time when the warnings are not as important as the actions we must take, and the conversion we must experience.

SwissMrs&Pitchfire · November 9th, 2006, 10:23 am

Definately, the day for standing on borrowed light has past! I don't think that I have posted this here yet, but I am slowly compiling my Assyrian destruction quotes together. Here's a couple of its pieces:

Chapter Heading Isaiah 10
Isaiah 37:36

"The day is to come when one shall chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight. When that day comes, the Lord will make the enemies of His people flee as if there were thousands after them, when there is only one; and that is the way that God will deal with our enemies."HCK JD 4:374

"...so great was the faith of Enoch, that he led the people of God, and their enemies came to battle against them; and he spake the word of the Lord, and the earth trembled, and the mountains fled, even according to his command; and the rivers of water were turned out of their course; and the roar of the lions was heard out of the wilderness; and all nations feared greatly, so powerful was the word of Enoch." (Moses 7:13.)"Spencer W. Kimball, “The False Gods We Worship,” Ensign, June 1976, 3

By faith are these things to be accomplished! Can ye do so now?

Darren · Post by **Darren** » November 9th, 2006, 12:46 pm

I am really impressed with the quality of discussion here, I believe the participants here are among those who will help save the constitution.

I want to say if I have been overly bold or too opinionated it is because I feel that this group can allow that to happen, with responses thoughtfully considered.

I feel that if there is anything here that appears to be attacking or ruff, that it is in the environment of helping one another. I haven’t read anything that resembles making trouble.

To answer an earlier request; a good web page that has the "hanging by a thread" quote is:

http://members.aol.com/acadac/talks/hang.htm

I would like to know the opinion of this group and to see how many of you will pipe-up and state were you stand on saving the constitution:

Are you for studding, preparing and waiting?
Are you for teaching, sharing and making a stand when opportunities happen, somewhat low key?
Are you trying to put specific (constitutional) plans into practice and encouraging others to do like wise?
Are you off the deep end, or nearly so?
Something else?

I’m hovering somewhere around sharing, trying to do things, and nearly off the deep end, but I know better then to go off outside the boundaries of the Church and its leaders. As we do save the constitution I believe that establishes the essence of the Gospel as Law, and we will see Zion as a result, or as the Puritans of New England would say, “The Alabaster City”

It is good to ask ourselves, "how do we save it."

God Bless,
Darren

ChelC · Post by **ChelC** » November 9th, 2006, 1:22 pm

Darren,
I'm not sure. I'm new to all of this now, so I'm definitely in the study phase, but I don't know that I can happily stay there, I feel like there is more that we can do, just trying to figure that out.

I don't think any of us should go totally crazy until we are well studied.

I also don't think that we should push this forward as an LDS thing, because it is not backed by the support of the church, we have not been ordained in any way - so we need to be careful there. Maybe it should start as a group whose sole purpose is promoting adherence to the constitution as intended by our forefathers - and educating people on that. We should seek to expose laws which are unjust and unconstitutional. Like our own little ACLU - only very different!

SwissMrs&Pitchfire · November 9th, 2006, 1:59 pm

I absolutely appreciated your remarks Darren! I feel very strongly that the work that we do here will figuratively help lay the foundations of Zion.

I agree with it not being a Mormon thing. Maybe I should compile and post the various times when saving it is referenced. In many cases it states that the Elders will do it (on their own, without a church program) and non-members will be a substantial enough part of it to be specifically mentioned.

Doing this through this vehicle in which from Brian's writing, I gather that the "Latter-Day" is not neccesarily overtly Mormon, or doing it through the CP platform could both work, or maybe some other vehicle?

WhisperFox · Post by **WhisperFox** » November 9th, 2006, 10:02 pm

I'm a newby here (but not to the ideas or patriot movement). I want to say again that I am really impressed with the content and quality of this forum from what I have read so far.

I've been "preaching" secret combinations and prepardness for over 20 years now and like Lunbaek, sometimes I grow weary of the stupidity of the masses.

I think we each may go through the same process as we "awake to the awfulness of our situation". At first I think most of us are a little scared because we aren't prepared. We start our preparations and begin to warn our neighbors.

We have the best intentions but fear and faith don't exist together. Because we are scared, those we try to warn sense the panic in us and shut us out. Soon we are labeled as a kook, radical or conspiracy junkie.

By the time we have made some preparations and the panic subsides, faith finally sets in, but most of our friends, relatives and neighbors want to keep us at a distance.

I like to ask folks how long they've been awake to our awful situation. I want to know so that I know how much to share with them. Usually one can tell without asking, and sometimes newbys to the information are offended, but I like to have an idea where they are coming from.

Anyone else besides me experienced this process?

WYp8riot · Post by **WYp8riot** » November 9th, 2006, 11:18 pm

Whisperfox,
I am a little confused as to your question? Could you please simplify for me what you are asking?

off topic..
BTW, Thanks for hooking me up with that Honey several months ago!
I have had so many circumstances that lead to relocation and have had a never ending battle of restarting and attempting to get food storage. I still have that bucket of honey and just picked up another 50lb of wheat for $9 yesterday and will get more next week.

That is one thing I have noticed, even among us the awakened there are many that are still struggling and havent gotten sufficiently prepared yet. What if low crop production happened just before the chaos? To think members here that are awake didnt fully prepare and suffer as a result is a horrible thought!

SwissMrs&Pitchfire · November 10th, 2006, 7:16 am

Look at Australia this year. They have had a really bad year and wheat prices have gone up accordingly. I expect that they will continue to do so. Now is the time, this is the place, we are the ones!

I have experienced things a little differently from you WhisperFox. I like the throw stuff at them and see what sticks approach. I have always done my own thing and been labeled accordingly. We were prepared before we knew why. I watch our foolish missionaries and know that that process of throw stuff at them and see if it sticks must work (maybe not as well but it does) although they (the church for a while) tried to stick them to the standardized discussions.

If people are operating under the spirirt ,truth cleaveth unto truth, and that will lead people to look into something further. That is the approach taken with me and I take it ChelC as well. You hear a mishmash of conspiracy theories presented imperfectly, feel a grain of truth in it and root it out and then sense another in the pile and root it out until you are left in the glare of the truth at last.

That is not to discount the orderly approach, just to illustrate that other approaches have and do work. Opening our mouths is the most important part. Nor do I suggest that this way is anything but inferior to an orderly approach.

ChelC · Post by **ChelC** » November 10th, 2006, 8:10 am

Whisperfox,
I think I get what you are saying, that we need to be careful when we are new to all of this that we don't bombard people with stuff that they are not ready to take in, and we are not ready to give, because then they label us a nut and we've lost them??? Is that what you mean?

I do think we should be educated about this before we teach it, unless we are honest and just say we don't understand it all yet, but that we feel very strongly that we've stumbled upon the truth.

Spirit is definitely key... if we're telling people to make conversation, this stuff sounds pretty nutty up front, and they will think we are nuts. We really have to feed it slowly at first. Kind if like fishing... you gotta be a little tender to get the fish to take it, you don't try setting the hook until they bite, or you've lost them.

John Adams · Post by **John Adams** » November 10th, 2006, 9:38 am

I like the way this thread is going in two ways.

1. It's helpful to hear how you all try to help educate those around us without "scaring" them off.

2. I think maybe there just might be something that a small body of people can do in unity to address what is going on (Constituion hanging by a thread, Secret Combinations alive and well, etc.)--especially since most of us on this forum have already moved past the initial "shock" phase and are now ready to actually do something about it.

John Adams · Post by **John Adams** » November 10th, 2006, 5:24 pm

Someone already mentioned this before on a previous thread and I can't stop thinking about it, so I thought it was worth revisiting again (sorry I can't remember who posted it originally, but they also gave some background about one verse being left out of the hymn book, but included in President Hinckley's talk.) I think it's very applicable to the subject matter of this thread.

Anyway, this song was quoted in President Hinckley's Priesthood Session talk.

Rise up, O men of God!
Have done with lesser things.
Give heart and soul and mind and strength
To serve the King of Kings.

Rise up, O men of God,
In one united throng.
Bring in the day of brotherhood
And end the night of wrong.

Rise up, O men of God!
The church for you doth wait,
Her strength unequal to her task;
Rise up, and make her great!

Rise up, O men of God!
Tread where his feet have trod.
As brothers of the Son of Man,
Rise up, O men of God!
(Hymns, no. 324; third verse in The Oxford American Hymnal, ed. Carl F. Pfatteicher [1930], no. 256)

I know I often want the church leaders to be more vocal about what's going on in the world, but for various reasons (many good guesses expressed throughout this forum) they are not.

So maybe the church really is waiting for us to do something.

Chuck Baldwin is a pastor that speaks quite a bit about the Constitution. Here is his latest article. http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin331.htm

Does anyone have any thoughts about Pastor Baldwin in relation to the legitimacy of his ideas, his morals, his willingness to unite with others, etc. (and/or any of the others he challenges/mentions in this article)?

Also, I think there have been many good ideas shared on this thread in relation to "actively" doing something, so please keep the ideas going.

SwissMrs&Pitchfire · November 10th, 2006, 6:05 pm

I don't know, but let's set a course of action and then see who is willing to follow it. If we quietly lay track two and make the neccesary preparations then the Lord can make use of us in this, or else he will raise someone else to do it. They intend on breaking down the system and then the jokes on them when it is just that that enables us to restore that which is lost (since Enoch's city was taken up). We should all be studying the Constitution and Mosaic Law as well as the higher laws that these will enable such as Consecration and the United Order, so that we can qualify to go forward.

WhisperFox · Post by **WhisperFox** » November 11th, 2006, 10:49 am

let's set a course of action

My personal course of action right now is to focus personally on doing the things I tend to let slide that the Lord had commanded/counseled me to do. I have good intentions but I allow a lot of things slip that would bring me closer to the Lord. I know I also need to be better physically fit.

As far as the state and national issues go, I personally think the John Birch Society has shown a proven track record for being able to thwart many of the plans to subvert the constitution. They almost single handedly stopped the plans for the constitutional convention a few years back that also would have dissolved all unalienable rights. I'm not a member, but it is obvious they have the structure and support to do a lot of good.

I also plan to lend as much help as I can to the Constitution Party as I see them growing and being in a position to do a lot of good.

I can't do everything, but I can be prepared personally and I can stand for something when the time is right.

lundbaek · Post by **lundbaek** » November 11th, 2006, 12:38 pm

Among the things that the Lord had commanded/counseled you to do, most certainly family history / genealogy is among them.

I also highly recommend the John Birch Society, and I attend most every local meeting I can. They are very careful in their research, and are actually aware of some things that they do not put in print because of incomplete supporting documentation. [/quote]

SwissMrs&Pitchfire · November 11th, 2006, 12:56 pm

Did I read correctly elsewhere that you are serving in SLC at THE center? Definately a-1 priority. I may need to pick your brain if that is true!

How Shall We save It?

working together

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