Do People Get Possessed by Evil Spirits?

[brlenox]

Um, that is not obvious? Are you asking if I have quit the church? Or if I ever was?

It may be obvious, in that you may have discussed this otherwise in other places. If I was to guess by the nature of your terminology I see enough commonality to suspect that you are LDS or were. However, I do not want to guess as there is also several perspectives that give indication that your current state of mind is quite different from traditional LDS. I was going to comment on your last post but thought that knowing your association would help me use appropriate terminology.

[Ratbag]

We've had to cast out evil spirits out of my daughter twice. Has nothing to do with righteousness, especially when it comes to kids. Many of them are very open and sensitive, making them inviting targets. If your children are having nightmares on a regular basis, bless them. Often it is evil spirits trying to break down their resistance with constant fear and sleep deprivation. Parents play right into this with the 'oh it's just a bad dream response' because they don't know better, allowing the evil spirits to keep the pressure on.

If you're a parent, pay attention. It does happen. And even if you're not possessed, they can form attachments to you and follow you around. Pray to have angels remove them.

You are 1000% correct on this. From Parley P. Pratt:

Many spirits of the departed, who are unhappy, linger in lonely wretchedness about the earth, and in the air, and especially about their ancient homesteads, and the places rendered dear to them by the memory of former scenes. The more wicked of these are the kind spoken of in Scripture, as "foul spirits," "unclean spirits," spirits who afflict persons in the flesh, and engender various diseases in the human system. They will sometimes enter human bodies, and will distract them, throw them into fits, cast them into the water, into the fire, etc. They will trouble them with dreams, nightmare, hysterics, fever, etc. They will also deform them in body and in features, by convulsions, cramps, contortions, etc., and will sometimes compel them to utter blasphemies, horrible curses, and even words of other languages. If permitted, they will often cause death. Some of these spirits-are adulterous, and suggest to the mind all manner of Iasciviousness, all kinds of evil thoughts and temptations.

You are a rare person who understands this.

[brlenox]

Seriously....that is an odd question given the quote you highlighted. Did you read it?

Actually, I read it a couple of hours before I posted. I can see your point but all I could remember between the time I read it and subsequently posted was the portions on the Wicca cursing, ( I work with a couple of wiccans) and that she gave credence to things that I distinctly find uncommon in LDS circles. Your point is well made and taken.

Thank you.

[bethany]

i gave credence to what?

[brlenox]

i gave to credence to what?

As I review your post more clearly,( my apologies for not remembering details before) here are some quotes of things in the post that caused me to contemplate whether you remained LDS or not...underlining added to highlight things that left an impression on my senses when I read it the first time..

" i even contacted Elder Pace for guidance & spoke with him on the phone. he could only offer his sympathies and told me to continue using the energy workers that i had started using. i explicitly told him that i wanted a priesthood answer & he told me that there was not one person he could recommend & that even when he tried to 'bless people' the attacks would continue.

i went through 4 energy workers. only one i would not go back to, 2 were awesome for what they did, but they couldn't discern each question I had. i finally found one that didn't give up. i've watched her work something out even if it took a couple months. you might call that a failure but i see amazing success in light of the dearth of information that we have. "

also, most people learning energy are in a boat like i was. they are compelled to learn it because of what was put upon them, they are broken & need fixing. priesthood didn't address the issue so they had to keep looking. i work on ppl quite often who are judged & shunned by the good members of their ward. ppl who suffer the indignity of false accusations & don't meet with the parameters that others set upon them. can't tell you how many tears i've seen from ppl who find out that its not a big deal & we can fix it.

These are the credence points I was asking about.

[bethany]

and your point?

[bethany]

is it concerning to you that i went the priesthood route & didn't find any relief? or that Elder Pace made his comment? are you familiar with his work? the reason that attacks continue is because casting out is not the answer. clearing the bond is the answer. release the bond & the entity no matter where it goes off to cannot return. cast it out without clearing the bond & even if he is told never to return, his friends will gladly take up his residence. i am not talking about normal casting out here.

[Rose Garden]

Yes. With further evidence presented by the fact that you used to believe and now do not.

That is circular reasoning which is a logical fallacy.

I'm not actually opposed to the idea of having evil spirits cast out of me, I'm just pointing out that even if I did that, if I didn't believe in evil spirits afterwards your line of reasoning would lead to the same conclusion.

Not necessarily. You wouldn't expect a man who suffered from amnesia to be able to figure out why he couldn't remember anything.

I really shouldn't have spoken with any degree of certainty. Seeking to have evil spirits cast out would be something you might try experimentally, to see what the result is. If nothing happens, you would most likely not be any worse off than you are now.

[brlenox]

is it concerning to you that i went the priesthood route & didn't find any relief? or that Elder Pace made his comment? are you familiar with his work? the reason that attacks continue is because casting out is not the answer. clearing the bond is the answer. release the bond & the entity no matter where it goes off to cannot return. cast it out without clearing the bond & even if he is told never to return, his friends will gladly take up his residence. i am not talking about normal casting out here.

No not necessarily that you did not find relief through the priesthood. I have observed much lack of knowledge concerning these things. If you read Elder Paces letter , the bottom line of his missive is simply, ' hey I'm drowning here, tell me what to do, this is over my head.' He want's help but does not know where to find it. I do not know what he might have received or not received after the letter was received by those with whom he was communicating. However, the integrity which caused him to write the letter, in my mind would not allow him to accept an answer that did not satisfy his need of some form of relief. I trust since he stayed in the church that he was given adequate understanding.

I also understand that the reasons the attacks continue are because damage has been done to the individual that leaves little back doors open that will become available to wicked entities upon the principles of 2 Nephi 2:

2 Nephi 2:29 will of the flesh and the evil which is therein, which giveth the spirit of the devil power to captivate,

That is the only venue that Satan is allowed is the weaknesses of the flesh and there are many things that fall into that category.

So until all of the access points are closed there is work to be done to preparing the individual for being healed.

I have experience in these matters. I don’t discuss specifics in public forums. However, there are some obvious patterns.

My first was specifically along the exact lines of Joseph Smiths first experience. Newel was a means of an education specifically for Joseph and of great merit to Newel of course. It was to provide a venue for a young in the priesthood holder to gain insight and increase in faith. Newel was possessed in such a way for the reason that Joseph, a person with the authority to bind and cast Satan out was present and he needed this experience. Of course this is no t always the case that it is because one is near who can deal with the interlopers but the means by which they enter is by the agency of the person so afflicted in some fashion. Perhaps not in children.

Of course there are some who actively seek out possession…those are harder if not nigh unto impossible when the faith is not present to cast the wicked one(s) out permanently.

I agree with Job that were it not that God puts a hedge around his obedient children they would be destroyed and that alone is the soul reason that they are not destroyed. Without that protection, I wonder if we would not all be destroyed.

I agree that there are times that the entity that is involved is stronger than the faith used to attempt to excise him from an individual.

I am agreed that these are desperate experiences that drive people to either find relief or despair of life. In that aspect of this process I am convinced that once again Satan can be empowered to appear to provide a form of relief as a means of reinstating his anonymity.

I wonder if that does not happen more often than not. I feel that even as someone becomes healed internally from the damage done that they can develop the strength to over power Satan themselves in many cases. Thus the process achieves a major degree of empowerment to these individuals who conquer in such ways.

However, I have read other material that has a similar undertone that your material does. In many respects I am comparing your perspective to his. Doug Mendenhall, who I am sure you know, wrote the definitive book on this subject by many peoples standards.

I have read all of his material and after a couple of years of simply letting his material settle in I have determined that in the end he has erred in certain perspectives that place authority over demons in the hands of those who have no such authority. Again, as I always feel the individual has a recourse and can eventually gain superiority themselves Perhaps the attention and support these "healers" give is beneficial but, for myself I cannot give them credence for authority where Joseph Smith claims it will not be found...I paraphrase...'Satan takes possession of a soul and wanders through the earth fearing that someone with authority will come along and cast him out.'

I also noticed in Doug's book an uncomfortable undertone that seems consistent with what you might have meant in your statement,"priesthood didn't address the issue so they had to keep looking." The implication I take from that is that the power of God was inadequate but Emotion Code and the works of Mel Fish were more potent than priesthood. These sorts of things disturb me because it has not been the case in my experience and that perspective seems in opposition to this concept:

Moroni 7:16-16

15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

Even the subtlest hint of relying on any other source of true healing that originates anywhere but with Christ and his authority seems a very subtle departure from truth and thus in opposition to Moroni's instruction. It would be foolish not to think that when Satan possesses some individuals he has an endgame in sight. An endgame of allowing them to develop testimonies of principles that ever so subtlety allow those of a certain mindset to become convinced in alternative forms of spiritual healing than Christ himself; to focus more on the solutions they have found than upon the results they have achieved. I feel that if a person does not purposefully and clearly choose to declare Christ's role in the process they themselves run the grievous risk of being misled as to the true source of healing. I realize that there are going to be many unanswered questions in the lives of those who must endure such as you describe. That's why I think the only way to really ever find the true answers is be patient and choose to trust in the Lord and his time table of teaching in his own time and in his own way.

Again, I am well aware that what you describe is very real. I do not doubt in the least. However, once you actually discover Satan and reveal him, your life is forever escalated to being a target of his efforts. It is that aspect of this experience that cautions me in my evaluations of these things.

[Louisianamama]

From personal experience, possession I don't know. But I do know that evil is real and can physically touch you. As a teenager, I was playing with voodoo type things (wee-gee board) and calling for ghosts and such. And as I was sleeping that night I physically was held to my bed by physical beings. All black, in body form, but see through. I had a hand covering my mouth, I couldn't talk, scream or move. All I was able to see was between the bodies holding me to my bed. My Dad, being the awesome man he is, had told me some time before in one of his lectures on faith (he is amazing) that what I was feeling could happen and to release myself I had to call on Christ. I closed my eyes and prayed with all my heart "in the name of Jesus Christ, you have now power here, over me, go away". The bodies with arms suddenly thrown off me as if I burned them then they vanished. I ran to my father an told him my experience. I've never been so frightened or thankful for my Fathers teachings of the scriptures to give me that knowledge and power. To overcome evil.

[bethany]

The priesthood could well do it's job if it were accompanied with knowledge. You can possess all the power in the world & if you know nothing or have not the gifts to hear it is useless. And your assumption & willingness to assert your assumptions is what it is. I do not know Doug nor have I read his books. I've read maybe 5 of his posts. And just in case... I haven't read Denver either.

I once watched a young woman come into the church having been raised in a ritually abusive situation. I watched her flourish under the hand of a bishop who was strong & could sustain her. She came in a bit of a wreck & cleaned up her appearances, educated herself, took piano lessons.... Was amazing in her transformation. As long as she had the bishop. When he was released, she collapsed again. I have a lot of love & respect for him, he was a man who really sought to use his priesthood daily. Would heal the sick often - extreme cases. I watched her case & could not understand why he was unable to heal her. I know he labored over her heavily. It was that puzzlement that lead to many conversations with God.

Your comments are quite condescending so I'll not bother continuing with your conversation. Seriously it is the attitude of - if you can't get relief from the priesthood then you don't deserve relief & the 'if you didn't get it from the priesthood then it's fake and you are deceived (if you've ever seen an entity return to its former host & have melt down down because it's access was cutoff - gasp - healed - and seen it's shock & grief because it knows the punishment that follows'& is terrified to go back, you'd have a clue that it works). & then there is the one I've heard a thousand times, it's your fault, you allowed it in.

These are great comebacks. They take the pressure off of those who are empowered. You hit them all. You are trained well.

I am not one to sit on my hands. When my father had cancer & an aggressive one at that, I flew into action. I spent 2 years fasting & begging God... 'You know the cause of cancer & how to fix it, I want that information'. 2 years of fasting lead me to perhaps the only person on the planet who had learned that information & put it into a usable format. She accepted 4 ppl in her clinic at a time with patients from all over the world & miraculously took my father within 2 weeks of contact. Had I assigned his health to his oncologist he would have died in 3 months from his 2nd diagnosis. The very question that I fasted for explains my attitude in life, I wanted to know the mechanics behind it. I could have fasted for him to be miraculously healed but that would leave me the next time fasting & praying again for the next victim. With the knowledge we gained, we ended up sharing our story with many, many others who also found success. He lived another 6 years. And others lived because of his journey.

But I don't have a victim mentality & I do not let SYSTEMS destroy me or mine. I have spent years cultivating my life with Christ. I spent years conversing with my ancestors & Him as I did my temple work, I have sat in Celestial rooms in His physical presence & I know him well. You do not submit 80,000 names to the temples without divine guidance & assistance. I have walked the path that He gave to me & all of it was allowed for His purposes.

There are no middlemen in my walk with Him.

(Before I get accused of disrespecting the priesthood by calling it a system.... I do not view the priesthood itself as a system, it is a wondrous means & power gifted to the Earth to effectualize healings, ordinances, & salvation for humanity. It is the yoke of programs & compartmentalizing & the resistance to adapting to situations that is a limiting system. Tossing ppl into programs & expecting that to be the end all. What, the program doesn't address your needs? You must be broken. Get back in line)

[JohnnyL]

Do people, adults and children, get possessed by evil spirits? If so, how common is it. If you do or do not think so, please back up what you say by scripture and quotes from church sources.

Ratbag, check out this blog... in the process of searching a couple quotes in reference to evil spirits that I recall from memory. I came across this blog that has some of those quotes that I have read before and some I have not.

From my own experiences in dealing with evil spirits it is pretty clear that it does happen, that they can inflect us not just spiritually but also physically.

http://uncleanspirits.blogspot.com/2012 ... sical.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You may also want to refresh yourself with Christ and his 40 day fast, how did Satan have power to take Him to the tops of the temple, or the mountains etc... It is all interesting to me. Then ask yourself what was gained by Christ fasting? What do we gain when we fast? It's not all inclusive, but I believe through the process of fasting we overcome the flesh as Christ overcame the flesh to prepare Him for his ministry. He also had to overcome the power of the devil while in the flesh and be subjected to his power and tempting's.

FWIW, the JST says Satan didn't take him, but He went, and Satan tempted him there.

[bethany]

When I was 12 I wanted a horse more than anything on the planet. My father bought 3 for my siblings but never seemed to bother getting one for me. I begged to no avail. It made zero sense to me. We had a farm, we had the means yet he would not buy me a horse. One night my mother asked me to go out & feed our baby calves. I would have to stay out by myself & hold their bottles for quite a few minutes. I went without complaining despite my intense fear of the dark & as I stood there I looked up &'saw a shooting star. I searched my heart & thought of that which I wanted most. With all my being I asked God for my horse. Then I forgot that it happened. 2 days later the phone rang & I knew it was about me. I lingered in the hallway to overhear my father's conversation. Soon he called me in & said, 'would you like a horse?' A friend of his wanted to give his pony away.

I was ecstatic. On a rare snow day in Louisiana, we went to pick him up. A beautiful & sassy pony whose tail swept the ground. I named him Blitz & rode him everywhere. I rode him often with just a small twine around his nose. He would rear up on demand & put on quite a show. One day as I was in a residential area some girls I knew from school approached me... 'How are you doing that'... I was puzzled by their question. 'Um, doing what?'... 'Riding him? That was our pony, our grandpa bought him for us & we couldn't do anything with him.' Not once did I have an issue riding him.

I know that Father was the reason that my father would not buy me a horse. He wanted to establish that He would be my provider throughout my life & I was to look to Him for my wants & needs. He has never left me. Not only did he gift me my pony, but He knew my heart. I had spent years watching Roy Rogers. I adored Trigger & how Roy would cause him to rear up before they raced off to some rescue. Blitz had all the speed, spunk, & sassiness that I expected.

Father knows our hearts & He uses us according to the desires of our hearts. As a child I wanted the freedom to roam in the company of a special horse. As an adult I want other freedoms. I have not profited off what I have learned, I have given freely & sought to teach others in their quest for freedom, whether it was cancer or energy healing. Father knew I would do that, it's what I always do. I took an ugly situation & made it beautiful & extended it out to help others. And I have not profited through money at any time. Just the joy of seeing grief & despair turn to hope.

[Dannyk]

Brlenox - having spoken with Bethany in greater detail, I don't desire to betray her confidence of things she shared with me...but solely desire to clarify one thing that you may not have fully understood based on the what has been posted publicly....she unquestionably draws upon the powers of Christ, and recognizes Him as the author of salvation and healing. There is nothing about the work she does and describes that doesn't seek to apply the power of Christ and his atonement in order to cast out and heal.

If you previously came away from your readings thinking otherwise, I invite you to reconsider.

[bethany]

I want to thank you Ratbag for starting this thread & your awesome desire to share your journey with others that they may learn the way out. I also want to commend the amazing woman who supported you through this. She certainly is Christlike in her patience & faith & willingness to stand by you. Now you are a Light on a Hill... God bless you.

[notjamesbond003.5]

The priesthood could well do it's job if it were accompanied with knowledge. You can possess all the power in the world & if you know nothing or have not the gifts to hear it is useless. And your assumption & willingness to assert your assumptions is what it is. I do not know Doug nor have I read his books. I've read maybe 5 of his posts. And just in case... I haven't read Denver either.

I once watched a young woman come into the church having been raised in a ritually abusive situation. I watched her flourish under the hand of a bishop who was strong & could sustain her. She came in a bit of a wreck & cleaned up her appearances, educated herself, took piano lessons.... Was amazing in her transformation. As long as she had the bishop. When he was released, she collapsed again. I have a lot of love & respect for him, he was a man who really sought to use his priesthood daily. Would heal the sick often - extreme cases. I watched her case & could not understand why he was unable to heal her. I know he labored over her heavily. It was that puzzlement that lead to many conversations with God.

Your comments are quite condescending so I'll not bother continuing with your conversation. Seriously it is the attitude of - if you can't get relief from the priesthood then you don't deserve relief & the 'if you didn't get it from the priesthood then it's fake and you are deceived (if you've ever seen an entity return to its former host & have melt down down because it's access was cutoff - gasp - healed - and seen it's shock & grief because it knows the punishment that follows'& is terrified to go back, you'd have a clue that it works). & then there is the one I've heard a thousand times, it's your fault, you allowed it in.

These are great comebacks. They take the pressure off of those who are empowered. You hit them all. You are trained well.

I am not one to sit on my hands. When my father had cancer & an aggressive one at that, I flew into action. I spent 2 years fasting & begging God... 'You know the cause of cancer & how to fix it, I want that information'. 2 years of fasting lead me to perhaps the only person on the planet who had learned that information & put it into a usable format. She accepted 4 ppl in her clinic at a time with patients from all over the world & miraculously took my father within 2 weeks of contact. Had I assigned his health to his oncologist he would have died in 3 months from his 2nd diagnosis. The very question that I fasted for explains my attitude in life, I wanted to know the mechanics behind it. I could have fasted for him to be miraculously healed but that would leave me the next time fasting & praying again for the next victim. With the knowledge we gained, we ended up sharing our story with many, many others who also found success. He lived another 6 years. And others lived because of his journey.

But I don't have a victim mentality & I do not let SYSTEMS destroy me or mine. I have spent years cultivating my life with Christ. I spent years conversing with my ancestors & Him as I did my temple work, I have sat in Celestial rooms in His physical presence & I know him well. You do not submit 80,000 names to the temples without divine guidance & assistance. I have walked the path that He gave to me & all of it was allowed for His purposes.

There are no middlemen in my walk with Him.

(Before I get accused of disrespecting the priesthood by calling it a system.... I do not view the priesthood itself as a system, it is a wondrous means & power gifted to the Earth to effectualize healings, ordinances, & salvation for humanity. It is the yoke of programs & compartmentalizing & the resistance to adapting to situations that is a limiting system. Tossing ppl into programs & expecting that to be the end all. What, the program doesn't address your needs? You must be broken. Get back in line)

Bethany-

Beautiful post.
You have to forgive the occasional turds that attempt to stink up a thread.
Their modus operandi is easily recognizable.
Keep up the great work, continue to
demonstrate Charity always
-as you so perfectly do.

your friend,

njb

[brlenox]

The priesthood could well do it's job if it were accompanied with knowledge. You can possess all the power in the world & if you know nothing or have not the gifts to hear it is useless. And your assumption & willingness to assert your assumptions is what it is. I do not know Doug nor have I read his books. I've read maybe 5 of his posts. And just in case... I haven't read Denver either.

I once watched a young woman come into the church having been raised in a ritually abusive situation. I watched her flourish under the hand of a bishop who was strong & could sustain her. She came in a bit of a wreck & cleaned up her appearances, educated herself, took piano lessons.... Was amazing in her transformation. As long as she had the bishop. When he was released, she collapsed again. I have a lot of love & respect for him, he was a man who really sought to use his priesthood daily. Would heal the sick often - extreme cases. I watched her case & could not understand why he was unable to heal her. I know he labored over her heavily. It was that puzzlement that lead to many conversations with God.

Your comments are quite condescending so I'll not bother continuing with your conversation. Seriously it is the attitude of - if you can't get relief from the priesthood then you don't deserve relief & the 'if you didn't get it from the priesthood then it's fake and you are deceived (if you've ever seen an entity return to its former host & have melt down down because it's access was cutoff - gasp - healed - and seen it's shock & grief because it knows the punishment that follows'& is terrified to go back, you'd have a clue that it works). & then there is the one I've heard a thousand times, it's your fault, you allowed it in.

These are great comebacks. They take the pressure off of those who are empowered. You hit them all. You are trained well.

I am not one to sit on my hands. When my father had cancer & an aggressive one at that, I flew into action. I spent 2 years fasting & begging God... 'You know the cause of cancer & how to fix it, I want that information'. 2 years of fasting lead me to perhaps the only person on the planet who had learned that information & put it into a usable format. She accepted 4 ppl in her clinic at a time with patients from all over the world & miraculously took my father within 2 weeks of contact. Had I assigned his health to his oncologist he would have died in 3 months from his 2nd diagnosis. The very question that I fasted for explains my attitude in life, I wanted to know the mechanics behind it. I could have fasted for him to be miraculously healed but that would leave me the next time fasting & praying again for the next victim. With the knowledge we gained, we ended up sharing our story with many, many others who also found success. He lived another 6 years. And others lived because of his journey.

But I don't have a victim mentality & I do not let SYSTEMS destroy me or mine. I have spent years cultivating my life with Christ. I spent years conversing with my ancestors & Him as I did my temple work, I have sat in Celestial rooms in His physical presence & I know him well. You do not submit 80,000 names to the temples without divine guidance & assistance. I have walked the path that He gave to me & all of it was allowed for His purposes.

There are no middlemen in my walk with Him.

(Before I get accused of disrespecting the priesthood by calling it a system.... I do not view the priesthood itself as a system, it is a wondrous means & power gifted to the Earth to effectualize healings, ordinances, & salvation for humanity. It is the yoke of programs & compartmentalizing & the resistance to adapting to situations that is a limiting system. Tossing ppl into programs & expecting that to be the end all. What, the program doesn't address your needs? You must be broken. Get back in line)

Somehow, you have managed to misread my commentary as condescension. I never intended it to be such but perhaps you might quote me a couple of points that you perceived as condescension to enable me to analyze and correct my word usage in such a way as to avoid such in the future.

For the most part I was simply agreeing with a majority of your perspectives in hopes of not making it appear that I was against your observations. I 100% agree with the unwillingness to turn over to doctors the responsibility we each have for our own health. I agree again with avoiding a victim mentality. Wonderful characteristics that I'm sure make you a force to be reckoned with. In fact your first sentence is exactly one of the first points I made in my comments.

Perhaps it is those things, and the fact that you think I am taking you to task is what has charged up the defense mechanisms, I cannot be sure. However, that you made this observation below is remarkable to me as it was exactly what I was trying to avoid.

Your comments are quite condescending so I'll not bother continuing with your conversation. Seriously it is the attitude of - if you can't get relief from the priesthood then you don't deserve relief & the 'if you didn't get it from the priesthood then it's fake and you are deceived (if you've ever seen an entity return to its former host & have melt down down because it's access was cutoff - gasp - healed - and seen it's shock & grief because it knows the punishment that follows'& is terrified to go back, you'd have a clue that it works). & then there is the one I've heard a thousand times, it's your fault, you allowed it in.

This is not a correct characterization of what I feel in this matter.

Also, when I mentioned Doug, I am not discussing anyone that participates on this forum (that I know of) so I am not sure we are referencing the same individual.
Anyway, my apologies that my manner of conversation has riled your sensitivities. It is unfortunate, I will attempt better in the future.

[brlenox]

The priesthood could well do it's job if it were accompanied with knowledge. You can possess all the power in the world & if you know nothing or have not the gifts to hear it is useless. And your assumption & willingness to assert your assumptions is what it is. I do not know Doug nor have I read his books. I've read maybe 5 of his posts. And just in case... I haven't read Denver either.

I once watched a young woman come into the church having been raised in a ritually abusive situation. I watched her flourish under the hand of a bishop who was strong & could sustain her. She came in a bit of a wreck & cleaned up her appearances, educated herself, took piano lessons.... Was amazing in her transformation. As long as she had the bishop. When he was released, she collapsed again. I have a lot of love & respect for him, he was a man who really sought to use his priesthood daily. Would heal the sick often - extreme cases. I watched her case & could not understand why he was unable to heal her. I know he labored over her heavily. It was that puzzlement that lead to many conversations with God.

Your comments are quite condescending so I'll not bother continuing with your conversation. Seriously it is the attitude of - if you can't get relief from the priesthood then you don't deserve relief & the 'if you didn't get it from the priesthood then it's fake and you are deceived (if you've ever seen an entity return to its former host & have melt down down because it's access was cutoff - gasp - healed - and seen it's shock & grief because it knows the punishment that follows'& is terrified to go back, you'd have a clue that it works). & then there is the one I've heard a thousand times, it's your fault, you allowed it in.

These are great comebacks. They take the pressure off of those who are empowered. You hit them all. You are trained well.

I am not one to sit on my hands. When my father had cancer & an aggressive one at that, I flew into action. I spent 2 years fasting & begging God... 'You know the cause of cancer & how to fix it, I want that information'. 2 years of fasting lead me to perhaps the only person on the planet who had learned that information & put it into a usable format. She accepted 4 ppl in her clinic at a time with patients from all over the world & miraculously took my father within 2 weeks of contact. Had I assigned his health to his oncologist he would have died in 3 months from his 2nd diagnosis. The very question that I fasted for explains my attitude in life, I wanted to know the mechanics behind it. I could have fasted for him to be miraculously healed but that would leave me the next time fasting & praying again for the next victim. With the knowledge we gained, we ended up sharing our story with many, many others who also found success. He lived another 6 years. And others lived because of his journey.

But I don't have a victim mentality & I do not let SYSTEMS destroy me or mine. I have spent years cultivating my life with Christ. I spent years conversing with my ancestors & Him as I did my temple work, I have sat in Celestial rooms in His physical presence & I know him well. You do not submit 80,000 names to the temples without divine guidance & assistance. I have walked the path that He gave to me & all of it was allowed for His purposes.

There are no middlemen in my walk with Him.

(Before I get accused of disrespecting the priesthood by calling it a system.... I do not view the priesthood itself as a system, it is a wondrous means & power gifted to the Earth to effectualize healings, ordinances, & salvation for humanity. It is the yoke of programs & compartmentalizing & the resistance to adapting to situations that is a limiting system. Tossing ppl into programs & expecting that to be the end all. What, the program doesn't address your needs? You must be broken. Get back in line)

Bethany-

Beautiful post.
You have to forgive the occasional turds that attempt to stink up a thread.
Their modus operandi is easily recognizable.
Keep up the great work, continue to
demonstrate Charity always
-as you so perfectly do.

your friend,

njb

Inappropriate for you to make such characterizations at all but especially without ascertaining if indeed I intended what I am accused of.

[brlenox]

Brlenox - having spoken with Bethany in greater detail, I don't desire to betray her confidence of things she shared with me...but solely desire to clarify one thing that you may not have fully understood based on the what has been posted publicly....she unquestionably draws upon the powers of Christ, and recognizes Him as the author of salvation and healing. There is nothing about the work she does and describes that doesn't seek to apply the power of Christ and his atonement in order to cast out and heal.

If you previously came away from your readings thinking otherwise, I invite you to reconsider.

Again Danny there has been a rush to judgement here over what I intended. As I mentioned I have a great deal of experience in these matters as well. I understand that the limitations of the priesthood holders can be a real obstacle for their lack of understanding concerning such things. I stated such clearly I thought. I appreciate your efforts at attempting to ameliorate any ill feeling I might have towards Bethany but they are unnecessary as I have no ill will. I simply mentioned that the tone she manifests resembled the tone of Doug Mendenhals books and that was the basis for my concerns as he entertains certain perspectives that have moved outside of the realm of reasonable interpretations. A slight breeze of a gentle caution should have been the essence of my intent as anyone should be able to accept that any genuine disturber of Satan's kingdom is especially targeted by the deceiver. I outlined carefully how Moroni 7 invited us to discern truth. You seem to indicate that I was not aware of her dependence on Christ and you are right based on what I believe you are indicating ... it hasn't been publicly developed in an adequate way. Good enough. I can live with that.

[Dannyk]

Brlenox - having spoken with Bethany in greater detail, I don't desire to betray her confidence of things she shared with me...but solely desire to clarify one thing that you may not have fully understood based on the what has been posted publicly....she unquestionably draws upon the powers of Christ, and recognizes Him as the author of salvation and healing. There is nothing about the work she does and describes that doesn't seek to apply the power of Christ and his atonement in order to cast out and heal.

If you previously came away from your readings thinking otherwise, I invite you to reconsider.

Again Danny there has been a rush to judgement here over what I intended. As I mentioned I have a great deal of experience in these matters as well. I understand that the limitations of the priesthood holders can be a real obstacle for their lack of understanding concerning such things. I stated such clearly I thought. I appreciate your efforts at attempting to ameliorate any ill feeling I might have towards Bethany but they are unnecessary as I have no ill will. I simply mentioned that the tone she manifests resembled the tone of Doug Mendenhals books and that was the basis for my concerns as he entertains certain perspectives that have moved outside of the realm of reasonable interpretations. A slight breeze of a gentle caution should have been the essence of my intent as anyone should be able to accept that any genuine disturber of Satan's kingdom is especially targeted by the deceiver. I outlined carefully how Moroni 7 invited us to discern truth. You seem to indicate that I was not aware of her dependence on Christ and you are right based on what I believe you are indicating ... it hasn't been publicly developed in an adequate way. Good enough. I can live with that.

Actually BrLenox - I appreciated your post that led to all of these clarifications. I accept your witness of your experience, I thought your post indicated a great degree of respect for the things being discussed.

There was some wording in your post which seemed to indicate she did not draw on Christ, or at least that you desired clarification to make sure that she did, as no true healing could happen without that.

Having reviewed some of the things previously written, I could understand why you might have not been entirely sure, and so I just wanted to let you know that in conversations that were more frank, it had been made clear to me that at least in the case of Bethany, Christ is the key role in all healing and energy work she does.

I mean it in all sincerity, I loved much of what you wrote, and just wanted to help clear up what may have been just a simple misunderstanding. I take comfort in knowing that there are many here who have experience in countering the works of Darkness, some by Faith, and some by Faith and Priesthood. I count you among the latter.

[brlenox]

There was some wording in your post which seemed to indicate she did not draw on Christ, or at least that you desired clarification to make sure that she did, as no true healing could happen without that.

Having reviewed some of the things previously written, I could understand why you might have not been entirely sure, and so I just wanted to let you know that in conversations that were more frank, it had been made clear to me that at least in the case of Bethany, Christ is the key role in all healing and energy work she does.

Bingo on the underlined. Thank you for maintaining a charitable perspective.

[Desert Roses]

I've actually looked into most of this, and I will tell you in my opinion, based on the way they work and the ideas behind them, they are Satanic in origin. Energy is indeed the power that Christ uses, but it is only under His authorization and through Him that healing and casting out of negative spirits, emotions, trauma effects, etc. can be done for the long-term. Those are best accessed, in my experience, through priesthood blessings, prayer, and efforts to do God's will in all things (deep humility). Even 12-Step programs that deal with long-term addictions recognized this power. Energy work can work, just like ouji boards, seances, and other Satanically powered things work. Satan has done all he can to assert that he is the "God of this world" and tries to imitate and copy the works of God in every way he can. I've done "energy work" and come to the conclusion that it is not a way to cast out evil, but rather opens the door for it and pushes God out in many cases.

those are your experiences. in my case.... i had a child that had been cursed by a person practicing wicca. the mother of a former friend - which they both attended church. at the time i did not know much about the subject & didn't think defensively as she was claiming that she was repenting of that in her life. at this point, i would definitely avoid anybody with a history in wicca. this is not something that someone simply says... Jesus, save me & it's over. those spirits continue to lay claim to that person forever until they are dealt with.

she was young & the stuff that we endured was unspeakable. attacks became a part of her life several times a week. i won't go into all the things that she witnessed & endured, or the sufferings she had from members of the church. we went to multiple bishops, multiple priesthood holders, i found friends to teach me how to cast out for the moment but not for good.

it became a battle. it continued for over a decade. i even contacted Elder Pace for guidance & spoke with him on the phone. he could only offer his sympathies and told me to continue using the energy workers that i had started using. i explicitly told him that i wanted a priesthood answer & he told me that there was not one person he could recommend & that even when he tried to 'bless people' the attacks would continue.

i went through 4 energy workers. only one i would not go back to, 2 were awesome for what they did, but they couldn't discern each question I had. i finally found one that didn't give up. i've watched her work something out even if it took a couple months. you might call that a failure but i see amazing success in light of the dearth of information that we have.

somethings i have worked on releasing takes a couple weeks to get rid of. but it is addressed layer by layer & eventually it is gone. my child - after 3 years of labor might get 1 attack a month now whereas she often got 3-4 in a week. that person that cursed her had a decade of adding to what she had done, therefore i think 3 years of getting rid of all of it is not bad.

if i ran & cowered in the corner everytime i was attacked, i would never have done temple work. right before my gifts opened, i was in 3 near misses of very violent potentially fatal accidents. i was attacked by an entity that attempted to posess me that scared me severely. but i don't cower. i stand up & do exactly what they wanted to steer me away from.

when i went to go to the temple, i had a nasty frightening visit. it scared me, but it only served to make me all the more determined to enter into covenants with God.

i guess it's all in your discernment. i get attacked, somebody is threatening because of what i am venturing into. not because it is of them.

Joseph Smith & many who participated in the restoration were attacked quite frequently. by this reasoning, it is of the devil. just my observation.

also, most people learning energy are in a boat like i was. they are compelled to learn it because of what was put upon them, they are broken & need fixing. priesthood didn't address the issue so they had to keep looking. i work on ppl quite often who are judged & shunned by the good members of their ward. ppl who suffer the indignity of false accusations & don't meet with the parameters that others set upon them. can't tell you how many tears i've seen from ppl who find out that its not a big deal & we can fix it.

wonder how Ann Horn had angels showing her Brad Nelson & Emotion Code 20 years before it was given to the earth. or how the other lady who's book has just been published was told in her nde about her life's mission to do Emotion Code & Body Code. you can believe that they were deceived if you wish. i choose not.

Your experience sounds very intense. I can only say that while you found energy workers who were of real value, most that I have read/talked to/ worked with do not rely on the power of the Savior (the source of all light and truth) but tap into Satan's imitative power. I have successfully helped people clear significant blocks to accepting God's power. I, too, suffered many years with what I now believe was an "unclean spirit" that at one point almost got me excommunicated from the church. Without Christ's personal intervention, I believe I would have been lost forever. It was recognition of His power, His grace, His mercy, and His long-suffering and constantly outstretched arms that led me to freedom. I imagine each has to find their own way; for me it was claiming my agency and literally commanding Satan and his minions to leave my life forever. Multiple priesthood blessings helped but only when I found (and eventually married) a priesthood holder who truly understood both the power of the priesthood and the power of evil, and the need to cast it out directly did I understand how the priesthood could be effective. I think that far too many priesthood holders are fearful of being "kooks" or challenging Satan, or even fearful they are claiming too much authority for themselves. They could do far more than they do in casting out evil spirits, devils, and the unclean spirits that have taken greater and greater liberties for their side in the last 25 years or so.

[notjamesbond003.5]

Sounds like DRoses has a great PHood holder, hang on to that fellow.



njb

[bethany]

While I don't have time to expound right now, perhaps I'll have to make a tag line with my love for Christ. Just FYI my husband always comments about how I do my spiritual work as if I had a full time job & a salary to go with it. When I began my journey I would spend hours a day studying. From scriptures to Dead Sea scrolls then onto other gospel books. Then when my gifts opened up, I began doing temple work for hours a day shepherding those cards through the entire process, participating constantly... Then with this work it's hours every day. I'm not very flowery abt my feelings for Christ so I'm sure I don't always convey that. I think I hold it privately. I watched too many over the years speak grand testimonies while living opposite lives...so I sorta feel my labors are my testimony.

& quite frankly I merely speak because of those who are in EVERY ward who do not know where to turn are begging for help & not finding it. They are abused because of a lack of charity & knowledge, they are shunned & spoken poorly of.

[azalea.rubicon]

Do you think Bipolarism is also "possession?"