Roger billings?

[cayenne]

I am familiar with many mormon fundamentalist people's and groups, however roger billings group i am unfamiliar with. A poster on here earlier i believe mentioned they were from his group but i cant remember who it was. What does Roger and his people believe, especially compared with the regular lds and other fundamentalist groups?

[DrJay]

If you want to hear what he has to say, listen to his youtube videos. Search on Roger Billings. You can also access them on fsix.com. Click on "Zion radio", there are a number there to see.

[ajax]

Is Roger the recognized leader?

Why does everyone seem so overly pious in the videos? Why the hushed voices? As if everyone is trained to speak that way. Kind of General Conference-esque - maybe on steroids even.

Is it feigning? Real?

Just first impressions. No doubt you all seem like nice people, trying to live peaceful lives. More power to you.

[DrJay]

Pious? Now that's a word I would never associate with this group. Hushed voices? Are we watching the same videos? I'm there for the live broadcast and as it is being recorded the audience keeps quiet, at least till after the recording stops. It is very real.

The meeting last night was very powerful with a focus on getting to know Christ.

Roger is the Patriarch of Zion. It seems so interesting to me that there are so many on this forum that have desires about Zion, but it seems that few are willing to live it now. It is here whether it meets your expectations or not. The miracles that we see are almost daily. To live in a consecrated communicty instead of just taking about it is really amazing.

[bobhenstra]

Roger is just another one of over two thousand breakoffs from the true church! Calling yourselves Zion doesn't make you Zion! I wish you guys well, but I don't expect it!

Bob

[DrJay]

I guess anyone is entitled to judge. I have lived in Zion for 18 years now and it is obvious to me that your judgment is without merit and first hand knowledge. I have personally witnessed so many things that were possible only through the power of God.

Yes Roger is a genius, but his focus is for all people to reach their maximum potential. I have never met anyone who has shown more love and concern for other people, no matter what their beliefs.

I have a great love for the LDS Church and believe it has yet a significant mission to perform. I have no animosity towards the LDS Church. I thank the Lord for my experiences there and the preparations that I received to recognize Zion. I do recognize that there have been changes in LDS doctrine that I don't believe were inspired.

The Lord's promises concerning Zion are being fulfilled within your vision, it's only a question of who chooses to see. Whether you recognize that Zion has come does not change the facts. There will be a few that really want to be part of the Lord's Zion. I would encourage you to seek the truth and confirmation by the Holy Spirit. Anything less will not give you the power to stand.

[cayenne]

Where does Roger and the group believe 'the keys' are? Does Roger claim to be a prophet? and/or the President of the Priesthood? Do you all live United Orders done according to the D&C? This includes a legal framework to protect those who join with properties, etc who maybe want to leave someday and still get their property back? (assuming it was not a gift) Or is your order more of a communal system?

Many fundy groups have various so called United Orders, but I have never studied or heard of one that comes close to the real thing with maybe one sort of exemption. These false orders place the power with the heads (the rich), and the little guy (the poor) has no recourse 'legally' too anything if they want to leave after they have joined an order…., etc….in other words the order would love to have your property, etc…..but if you decide to leave, your screwed, to bad for you. The TLC was known for stealing property and other things.

Even in Pinesdale MT (the AUB) group had a bunch of followers who last i knew do not own the land they built on, the AUB does…..ut oh, you build on it, you want to leave……to bad for you cuz they own the land. I would hope people would see the issue with this in the first place before they built on the land, etc….'..Also with the AUB at Rocky Ridge if your poor, you get a cheap mobile home below, and if you have money you get a house above on the hill…..not so equal is it.

then there is the FLDS claims to United Orders….and the Kingstons…..and on and on

Basically, what makes Roger and the group different? (The people who live at the Rock near Moab Utah I hear have some type of fairly successful United Order, but I don't know the details, only been in their area a couple times.


Do you all believe in MMP or the 'wife saving doctrine' such as the TLC in others people have promoted?

Are you plural marriages claimed to be sealed? If so by what authority? Do you do endowments?

That should enough for now

[DrJay]

Where does Roger and the group believe 'the keys' are? Does Roger claim to be a prophet? and/or the President of the Priesthood? Do you all live United Orders done according to the D&C? This includes a legal framework to protect those who join with properties, etc who maybe want to leave someday and still get their property back? (assuming it was not a gift) Or is your order more of a communal system?

There are many keys that you may be referring too. The keys to the restoring and building of Zion are here. Roger claims to be a prophet as that anyone that can bear testimony of Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Ghost is a prophet. We are all encouraged to be prophets. He has the authority and calling of the Patriarch in Zion. He claims no authority over the LDS Church.

We all live the law of consecration. Any who have come and decided to leave were able to take any property that they brought with them. There are no poor among us. We live in communities that share resources, such as a common kitchen, laundry facilities, etc. There are no cheap mobile homes. Actually our life is pretty amazing.

Basically, what makes Roger and the group different? (The people who live at the Rock near Moab Utah I hear have some type of fairly successful United Order, but I don't know the details, only been in their area a couple times.

1. We are in the correct location
2. We live the law of consecration
3. We receive revelation that is made available to all
4. We have built a temple to the Lord
5. All are equal
6. Love for one another is one of the primary commandments
7. All of the Zion industries are blessed and successful
8. We are far understaffed. For the number of business that we have and what they are accomplishing we could handle 10 times our current number. On top of that all of our businesses are expanding. We need to be ready to handle an influx of those that seek the safety of Zion.
9. Ones means and possessions are not a consideration for coming to Zion, just their heart and desire to serve God
10. There is no contention.

The list is much longer, but that should do for now.

Do you all believe in MMP or the 'wife saving doctrine' such as the TLC in others people have promoted?

Are you plural marriages claimed to be sealed? If so by what authority? Do you do endowments?

That should enough for now

We believe in multiple lives but many of the concepts taught in MMP are not quite in line with what I believe. I believe that we must receive our calling and election during mortality. Luckily there will be many that return during the millennium where they will be taught the fullness of the gosepl in a terrestrial state, where most will make it.

I'm not familiar with the "wife saving doctrine' (or at least by that name) so I can't comment on it.

Celestial marriages are sealed by priesthood authority in the temple. All marriage relationships have to be first revealed by the Holy Spirit to BOTH the man and the woman. While I believe that God can authorize a plural marriage, I am not aware of any such relationships. The authority to seal Celestial marriages was restored to the earth by Joseph Smith. Yes we do endowments. But not the edited versions done in the LDS temples.

[Jason]

Roger is just another one of over two thousand breakoffs from the true church! Calling yourselves Zion doesn't make you Zion! I wish you guys well, but I don't expect it!

Bob

Way to put it straight and with kindness Saint B!

[DrJay]

What we expect and hope for and what we get sometimes are very different. One or all of us are mistaken. I also wish you well.

[DrJay]

I wish to thank both Bob and Legion for their reasonable and measured remarks. I obviously don't agree, but I do appreciate honest opinions. It's sad that there is so much contention on this site, when there are obviously people that are searching for real answers. Straight answers and kindness are always a good solution.

[Kingdom of ZION]

As for my religion, verses Brother Jay's, we have a few common beliefs just as I could say the same about myself and the LDS Church. I am more Judeo-Christian or Messianic Jew, then most here and see Mormonism as a apostate Gentile Dispensation that has very little authority left.

As for Bro. Jay's comment: 'It's sad that there is so much contention on this site, when there are obviously people that are searching for real answers. Straight answers and kindness are always a good solution.'

Everyone thinks they have the truth and the answer for others. When you point out differences of opinions on different interpretations of other churches doctrines, history, or teachings, it comes down to one person claiming one thing and the other claiming another. Generally one has to be right or telling a more complete truth. That is where the discerning of spirits and truth comes in. Maybe one needs to come back to Roger's place and learn, and the other person needs to stay in the LDS Church, and still another person may need to follow even a different path. That is Agency, and how we must learn to find the Father's will, for those whoever do. But to say this forum should be here for those people who want to come here and state unchallenged claims, and to be offended that others having differing opinions, or claims, that they are contentious because they dare say something else that they feel is true, is simply being to narrow-minded and lacking the true understanding of Liberty.

Warning people about churches that have cult tendencies and might cause eternal harm to some on their path to Father, is more then a duty of the Lord's true Sons and Brothers to testify of... it is their right and calling!

[DrJay]

One of the things that I have observed is that a few people who have come to Zion are surprised to discover that to make it home to our Father we have to become perfect while in this experience. The last time I checked, I'm not there yet, so that requires that I need to change even more. Change is hard for most of us, especially those with a few years of experience under our belts. If someone doesn't want to change then Zion is certainly not the place for them.

[Kingdom of ZION]

He use to hub bub with the GA back in the day at BYU, they ran research through Roger's company because of the Black's in the Priesthood issue back then. He moved to Independence and started his own church. I know he is no longer an LDS member, I do not know how he ended his membership. Yes he invents things and was into hydrogen power for years.

[cayenne]

So is Roger's group turned 'inward' or are they 'outward'?

It seems most of the fundamentalist groups I have come across one way or another seem to be very 'inward.' They are not motivated to take Christ outside their group. They remain very closed, cliquish, and frankly very arrogant believing they are the saved ones. AUB and 'the rock' seem to be less this way. Bob Foster who began 'the rock' whom I met once seemed the other way, as in he wanted to talk about Christ outside any group.

So how is it with Roger's people?

Also, this is a time to really talk about Rogers character. How is he different then Harmston, or Art Bulla, or Fred Collier, or Lemoine Jenson, or Warren Jeffs, or Timpson, etc…..what I mean is, all the men I mentioned as far as I know are well to do materialistically, and many others whom believe they are God's mouth peace are poor. (Harmston is no longer with us if you did not know)…and last i knew Art did not have many followers.

Who is in control of the monies, etc…..is this Zion incorporated? If so, how does one justify it being then bound to the government, etc?

[cayenne]

Just one more ? For now

When D&C 103 talks about Zion must be redeemed by power by one like unto Moses, is Roger claiming to be him since I am understanding that jay, you all believe Zion is now in place? What about the temple lot issues?

I want you to know I am asking sincere questions, and I enjoy knowing about different people's, etc.

[A Random Phrase]

So is Roger's group turned 'inward' or are they 'outward'?

It seems most of the fundamentalist groups I have come across one way or another seem to be very 'inward.' They are not motivated to take Christ outside their group. They remain very closed, cliquish, and frankly very arrogant believing they are the saved ones. AUB and 'the rock' seem to be less this way. Bob Foster who began 'the rock' whom I met once seemed the other way, as in he wanted to talk about Christ outside any group.

So how is it with Roger's people?

Considering that DrJay is very friendly and is very willing to share his beliefs with any who ask, I would say "outward".

[cayenne]

Oh. Does anyone know what tribe of israel Roger is from, or claims to be of?

[DrJay]

The issue with the LDS Church and polygamy was that its position was not consistent with what they taught. If Joseph was correct about plural marriage, then why don't they practice it today. If he was wrong, denounce him. Trying to say that he was correct and yet today we don't practice it doesn't work.

[DrJay]

So is Roger's group turned 'inward' or are they 'outward'?

It seems most of the fundamentalist groups I have come across one way or another seem to be very 'inward.' They are not motivated to take Christ outside their group. They remain very closed, cliquish, and frankly very arrogant believing they are the saved ones. AUB and 'the rock' seem to be less this way. Bob Foster who began 'the rock' whom I met once seemed the other way, as in he wanted to talk about Christ outside any group.

So how is it with Roger's people?

Also, this is a time to really talk about Rogers character. How is he different then Harmston, or Art Bulla, or Fred Collier, or Lemoine Jenson, or Warren Jeffs, or Timpson, etc…..what I mean is, all the men I mentioned as far as I know are well to do materialistically, and many others whom believe they are God's mouth peace are poor. (Harmston is no longer with us if you did not know)…and last i knew Art did not have many followers.

Does Roger have the most wives of the group? Who is in control of the monies, etc…..is this Zion incorporated? If so, how does one justify it being then bound to the government, etc?

Does Roger have an 18 year old rule to marry? I think Missouri's age law is 17?

Outward. There are many youtube videos of broadcasts the Dr. Billings has done to spread the message about Zion. One key element is that there is no requirement to be affiliated with the Church in Zion to be a member of the community. The Church runs a small university and no tuition is charged to anyone. You can go all they way through a DR degree with no student loans. Many attend there that have no clue about what the Church even teaches.

Roger used his own money to originally fund Zion. Few people with any resources have ever come here. I have never met anyone more concerned about the welfare of others and is putting things in place to constantly help more. One of the companies we developed here is called Acellus. (acellus.com) It is a video based computer aided teaching system. It is the most powerful teaching system that I am aware of. It uses AI to select the appropriate video instruction for the student. Most similar commercial systems charge hundreds of dollars per course per student. A school site license with Acellus can be as low as $10 per year per student and that includes over 80 courses. This is a program we developed to help the kids of America. We now have close to a million kids in the system.

Roger has one wife and there are none that have more than one.

Each patriarch in Zion has their own financial stewardship that they maintain. They control their individual accounts and make decisions for their own stewardship. The patriarchs work in conjunction with each other to make sure everyones needs are covered and new stewardships are created as new people come into Zion.

There has been no one under the age of 18 that have married in Zion.

[DrJay]

Just one more ? For now

When D&C 103 talks about Zion must be redeemed by power by one like unto Moses, is Roger claiming to be him since I am understanding that jay, you all believe Zion is now in place? What about the temple lot issues?

I want you to know I am asking sincere questions, and I enjoy knowing about different people's, etc.

Roger has never made such a claim. Personally, it is my belief that he fits that role.

We have built one temple so far (remember we are quite a small group). We believe that the day will come we will be involved with building of the great temple in Independence. Obviously a lot of things have got to happen before that is put into place.

[cayenne]

Dr.jay, thanks for your responses. One thing I did notice in one of the videos of your group is what appeared to be some oriental lineage people. I have actually never seen any one but Anglo Americans or Mexicans in any type of fundamentalist community. I happen to think that was nice to see.

[cayenne]

Acellus.com, I will check into that, thx

[DrJay]

Dr.jay, thanks for your responses. One thing I did notice in one of the videos of your group is what appeared to be some oriental lineage people. I have actually never seen any one but Anglo Americans or Mexicans in any type of fundamentalist community. I happen to think that was nice to see.

There are a number of people with a Korean background, along with Tonga and Samoa.

[cayenne]

Does Roger claim any particular Israeli tribal lineage?