Homosexuality: Disorder

[Benjamin_LK]

Some take the truth to be hard - no matter how "nice" you package it.

I understand why the Church has softened it's stance on homosexuality. It's obvious that they are trying to reach those who suffer with this weakness. Unfortunately, the media and the world have changed the definition of homosexuality from being "sin" to merely a "lifestyle choice". Many in our own Church with their own agenda are clamoring for the Church to "change it's position" on this matter just like it did with all men obtaining the priesthood or as it did when it ended the practice of plural marriage. For many, this subject hits close to home and they don't like the thought of one of their beloved friends or relatives going to the same place in the afterlife. ( I, myself, have a brother who lives this lifestyle) And though it is true, that it will be Christ that judges us, the scriptures and all the prophets have never ceased to call this for what it is, "sin". No matter what way we paint it, no matter who writes a great book about it, or what's in vogue in Hollywood and the media, this practice will always be just that, sin.
I am sorry if that offends anybody here, but it is the truth. Nobody here wrote this law. We can either observe it and urge others to do the same, or we pretend that this law is old and antiquated and doesn't have any bearing on us anymore.

Part of it is just a windup from the enemies of the church, that way, when the Church doesn't radically change, it pisses people off immensely. I will say though, that just about everything in chastity - from premarital sex to adultery is and has been treated fairly lightly in entertainment for a long time. I likewise understand the church's stance, it's always that people are loved, even if they do the wrong thing, the church can't make holy, what isn't holy, however.

[SkyBird]

Some take the truth to be hard - no matter how "nice" you package it.

I understand why the Church has softened it's stance on homosexuality. It's obvious that they are trying to reach those who suffer with this weakness. Unfortunately, the media and the world have changed the definition of homosexuality from being "sin" to merely a "lifestyle choice". Many in our own Church with their own agenda are clamoring for the Church to "change it's position" on this matter just like it did with all men obtaining the priesthood or as it did when it ended the practice of plural marriage. For many, this subject hits close to home and they don't like the thought of one of their beloved friends or relatives going to the same place in the afterlife. ( I, myself, have a brother who lives this lifestyle) And though it is true, that it will be Christ that judges us, the scriptures and all the prophets have never ceased to call this for what it is, "sin". No matter what way we paint it, no matter who writes a great book about it, or what's in vogue in Hollywood and the media, this practice will always be just that, sin.
I am sorry if that offends anybody here, but it is the truth. Nobody here wrote this law. We can either observe it and urge others to do the same, or we pretend that this law is old and antiquated and doesn't have any bearing on us anymore.

Part of it is just a windup from the enemies of the church, that way, when the Church doesn't radically change, it pisses people off immensely. I will say though, that just about everything in chastity - from premarital sex to adultery is and has been treated fairly lightly in entertainment for a long time. I likewise understand the church's stance, it's always that people are loved, even if they do the wrong thing, the church can't make holy, what isn't holy, however.

I believe the SSM Revolution is no different than the Polygamy Revolution or the Blacks & the Priesthood Revolution. In all cases it is and was a “sin” to think it is righteous to involve yourself in a SSM act or a Polygamy act for reasons to “raise a righteous seed unto God”…what hypocrisy! Or to withhold the priesthood from blacks…what hypocrisy according to D&C 121: 45-46!

Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.
46 The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 121:45 - 46)


There is going to be a lot of repentance on the other side of the veil… that is for sure!
I could say more… especially about the “Religious Revolution” from a historical perspective and the hypocrisy played out “in the name of God” … what hypocrisy… especially for a country whose motto is “One Nation Under God!”

[Rick Grimes]

Gay people can choose to act (or think) on it or not, and that's where the sin occurs.

You see??! That is how we are losing the battle. We have redefined what it is to be gay. It used to mean, that you were gay when you engaged in some sort of same sex sexual activities. (Be it kissing or any other type of typical hetero acts of affection) Now they are (to quote lady Gaga) "Born this way" and we would be wrong to judge them for the way they were born. Irregardless of the fact that they have not acted on this temptation. Just because you art tempted to do something, does not turn you into whatever it was you were tempted to do.

Think of it this way, a person is not a murderer until they actually murder somebody. Right?? What if they have been tempted to kill somebody, but they never go thru with it because they thought otherwise? Are they still a murderer?

Or what if a person fantasizes about molesting a child, thereby becoming a child molester? But they never go thru with it because they know that this is wrong. Are they still a child molester?

What about a person tempted to steal, but never actually do? Are they still a thief?

Why is it that we have to give a different status to a form of temptation or weakness that some people have by giving them the status of being "born this way". I strongly contest the use of the word "gay" to describe anybody who has never acted on those feelings, just the same way I would contest to somebody being called a murderer if they have never murdered anybody. You can have thoughts or attractions, but so long as you don't act on them, you don't become them. And you won't become them if you rely on Christ and His gospel to overcome whatever temptation that comes before you.

[Fiannan]

Gay people can choose to act (or think) on it or not, and that's where the sin occurs.

You see??! That is how we are losing the battle. We have redefined what it is to be gay. It used to mean, that you were gay when you engaged in some sort of same sex sexual activities. (Be it kissing or any other type of typical hetero acts of affection) Now they are (to quote lady Gaga) "Born this way" and we would be wrong to judge them for the way they were born. Irregardless of the fact that they have not acted on this temptation. Just because you art tempted to do something, does not turn you into whatever it was you were tempted to do.

Think of it this way, a person is not a murderer until they actually murder somebody. Right?? What if they have been tempted to kill somebody, but they never go thru with it because they thought otherwise? Are they still a murderer?

Or what if a person fantasizes about molesting a child, thereby becoming a child molester? But they never go thru with it because they know that this is wrong. Are they still a child molester?

What about a person tempted to steal, but never actually do? Are they still a thief?

Why is it that we have to give a different status to a form of temptation or weakness that some people have by giving them the status of being "born this way". I strongly contest the use of the word "gay" to describe anybody who has never acted on those feelings, just the same way I would contest to somebody being called a murderer if they have never murdered anybody. You can have thoughts or attractions, but so long as you don't act on them, you don't become them. And you won't become them if you rely on Christ and His gospel to overcome whatever temptation that comes before you.

Very good points. Even the term "SSA" or "same-sex attraction" is a dangerous thing to play with. There is plenty of psychological evidence that most women, if one examines how the term SSA is presented, are bi-sexual. Think of the confusion that a young woman feels if she looks at porn featuring a romantic lesbian scene and finds she is far more turned on than seeing a man and woman scene, or that when she sees a woman on the beach in a bikini she finds that more alluring than a man in Bermuda shorts. She may start believing she is gay. The truth is, most women find a nude woman far more sexy than a nude man and most heterosexual women find a scene of tow women kissing on TV or a lesbian scene in a movie a real turn on. So if one defines a "condition" from thoughts rather than behavior then you run the risk of many women, and some men, self-defining themselves with homosexuality.

I have stated before that I know a bi-sexual woman who gets a huge kick out of "converting" heterosexual women into lesbians. She has told me that the easiest to alter are conservative women. Why? Well, when a liberally-minded woman, usually secular, has sex with a woman she is far more likely to just see the sex as a fun or recreational diversion from her normal sexual routine. When a conservative woman is seduced she becomes extremely confused and her mind must make sense of everything. Here she is vulnerable to accepting the idea that she is indeed a lesbian since then she can blame "who she is" rather than come to terms with having violated a moral standard. Within a short time she will fully integrate into gay self-identification as this gets rid of any notions of cognitive dissonance and brings her relief from the struggle to come to terms with having enjoyed her initial relationship with a woman.

My personal opinion is that it is better to learn about how sexuality works. However, many religious people are scared to do this as they must reject the "sugar and spice" view of innocence of womanhood. Women are just as sexual, and in fact more so, than men. They are also far more liquid in their preferences. Men are usually more hard-wired, but there too some men, usually men who are the most anti-gay, find images of men exciting. If people are aware that this is normal and natural then I believe they could be far stronger in avoiding temptation of both the acts and the confusions that they might have in their minds.

[SamFisher]

I think all people have some degree of flirtation into this issue (pun intended), whether it's a normal man who wants to see two hot women make out, or a woman thinks it might be a turn on to make out with another woman. God expects us to control our appetites.

However, it's obvious to me that a good majority are born gay. I'm talking about the butch lesbians and the effeminate males who are clearly raging with hormones of the opposite sex inside them. I can spot these instantly, and I feel sorry for them. They cannot control their attraction, and it seems to have little to do with upbringing. In this sense, homosexuality is a disorder, not the wandering mind of a lip-stick lesbian who's more like a nimpho than an actual homosexual. In either case, I don't think the desires should be acted on. That law is God's.

[Rick Grimes]

However, it's obvious to me that a good majority are born "adulterers".

Do you see how odd that sounds when you replace the word gay/homosexuality with another sin descriptor?
That doesn't mean that people aren't born with natural weaknesses. The Lords has stated that He gives unto men their weaknesses, yet, they are to be controlled so that they do not become what is their burden to bear. Take for example: some men are born with an exceptional amount of testosterone hormone in their body that often leads to risky and often unlawful behavior. An increased amount of testosterone leads to an increase in sexual appetite. This at times, has led some men to satisfying this need, by committing adultery or fornication or rape. Does this condition that they were born with merit them to be labeled born "a rapist" or " a fornicator" or an "adulterer" before they have even committed the act?

Someone born with a predisposition for having homosexual thoughts or desires is no different than somebody who is born with the desire to be a kleptomaniac, or the desire to be a nymphomaniac, or a murderer. Yet, they do not become that until they yield to the enticings of the devil to succumb to these desires.

For whatever reason, the media and the world have made a distinction with this sin and people are now born "gay" and can do nothing about it at all to lead a lifestyle that is in accordance with God's plan.

Again, if we were to apply the same logic to the way we are classifying homosexual tendencies or desires and label somebody that has those as being "gay"; see for yourself how absurd the logic is.

"some people are now born "murderers" and can do nothing about it at all to lead a lifestyle that is in accordance with God's plan."[/b][/u]

or


"people are now born "liars" and can do nothing about it at all to lead a lifestyle that is in accordance with God's plan."[/b][/u]

and

"people are now born "adulterers" and can do nothing about it at all to lead a lifestyle that is in accordance with God's plan.[/b][/u]

and

"people are now born "child molesters" and can do nothing about it at all to lead a lifestyle that is in accordance with God's plan.[/b][/u]


Sounds odd doesn't it?

[Fiannan]

8.3% of women 18 - 29 identify as lesbian or bi-sexual.
4.6 % of men 18 - 29 identify as homosexual or bi.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/158066/speci ... -lgbt.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Notice a trend? While not noted in this article traditionally the rate homosexuality or bi-sexuality was higher for males than females. Give it a few more years of music video culture, Movies, TV and pornography and seeing women couples taking their kids to school will be more than commonplace. Oh well. considering the feminization of males nowadays I guess one cannot blame them.

[Fiannan]

Rick. let's say you had a 15 year old daughter who said that she sometimes wishes she could make out with her female friends. Would you tell her:

A) It is a sin to think or feel that way.

B) That's perfectly normal for most girls your age. However, the Lord has a plan for families and that is why our energies should be directed to finding tomance with a man.

[SkyBird]

Everyone is innately "born" with a "dual nature" (the carnal, devilish, and sensual; in opposition to our divine... that is what we should be taught daily in our lives)... at some point in time (before a resurrection can take place) all those under the illusion that they are "gay" will have to repent before they will ever see a resurrection in any glory.

For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

(New Testament | Romans 2:11 - 29)

When it comes to "sin" whether perceived or not... which one of our bodies is addicted... your spirit body or your physical body? I will guarantee it is our spirit body that has become addicted and carries this weight until it repents. Our physical body just goes back to the elements of mother earth in the organic and inorganic circle of life. Our eternal spirit is the one that will change its beliefs and eventually repent of all the corruption we choose to embrace while we were mortals. For some this may take a millennium.

[Rick Grimes]

Rick. let's say you had a 15 year old daughter who said that she sometimes wishes she could make out with her female friends. Would you tell her:

Honestly, I'd tell her that she is a daughter of Heavenly Father and He and I both love her for the daughter that she is. (I do, by the way) I would explain that as a daughter of Heavenly Father, her divine and ultimate function is to bear the souls of men into this world after she has found a wonderful man that will take her to the temple and be sealed to him for time and all eternity. Only this way, will she fulfill what her calling a woman and as a future mother in Israel is. I would explain to her that there are many forces in this world that would seek to frustrate our Heavenly's Father's plan of His children coming to this world. Homosexuality is one way that Satan is using to frustrate the purposes of our God in bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. I would then explain to her that every one of us can pray for strength in overcoming sin and temptation, and that with time and earnest prayer, every sinfull thought can eventually be overcome, by the power of Christ and the Holy Ghost.

That's what I would tell her. (or a slightly different message if it were one of my sons)

[SamFisher]

However, it's obvious to me that a good majority are born "adulterers".

Do you see how odd that sounds when you replace the word gay/homosexuality with another sin descriptor?
That doesn't mean that people aren't born with natural weaknesses. The Lords has stated that He gives unto men their weaknesses, yet, they are to be controlled so that they do not become what is their burden to bear. Take for example: some men are born with an exceptional amount of testosterone hormone in their body that often leads to risky and often unlawful behavior. An increased amount of testosterone leads to an increase in sexual appetite. This at times, has led some men to satisfying this need, by committing adultery or fornication or rape. Does this condition that they were born with merit them to be labeled born "a rapist" or " a fornicator" or an "adulterer" before they have even committed the act?

Someone born with a predisposition for having homosexual thoughts or desires is no different than somebody who is born with the desire to be a kleptomaniac, or the desire to be a nymphomaniac, or a murderer. Yet, they do not become that until they yield to the enticings of the devil to succumb to these desires.

For whatever reason, the media and the world have made a distinction with this sin and people are now born "gay" and can do nothing about it at all to lead a lifestyle that is in accordance with God's plan.

Again, if we were to apply the same logic to the way we are classifying homosexual tendencies or desires and label somebody that has those as being "gay"; see for yourself how absurd the logic is.

"some people are now born "murderers" and can do nothing about it at all to lead a lifestyle that is in accordance with God's plan."[/b][/u]

or


"people are now born "liars" and can do nothing about it at all to lead a lifestyle that is in accordance with God's plan."[/b][/u]

and

"people are now born "adulterers" and can do nothing about it at all to lead a lifestyle that is in accordance with God's plan.[/b][/u]

and

"people are now born "child molesters" and can do nothing about it at all to lead a lifestyle that is in accordance with God's plan.[/b][/u]


Sounds odd doesn't it?

No, Grimes, you sound odd. You're comparing apples with oranges. I'm equating this issue with something literal and physical, like chronic depression or a real physical handicap. I could easily commit adultery, but I wasn't born with an abnormal desire to bed a woman to whom I'm not married--that's a normal desire of men. And, I've met plenty of people I'd love to put in the grave. Doesn't mean I'll do it. But I cannot control the gender to whom I'm attracted. I can control whether to act on it. You're comparing the acts.

[Rick Grimes]

You're comparing apples with oranges.

Really?? I thought I was comparing sin and sin.

The distinction is that having homosexual tendencies or feelings now, (according to popular view) affords them a status of being born this way.

Yet, we don't do the same quasi-justification to any other form of common sin. We don't have a label for people who are born with a natural predisposition of committing adultery, rape, or murder, even though there may in fact be a physiological/psychological reason for them having these tendencies. This exception that we give for this particular sin is beguiling the world as to it's evil nature. (again, the act, not just the feelings)

I'm just trying to highlight the inconsistency that there is in how we talk about this real stumbling block. :-B

[SamFisher]

We probably agree generally. But I do know kids in the ward, know their good parents (not abusive families), and clearly the kids (boys) seem to be females trapped inside male bodies and are headed for homosexuality--but the choice is there's to stay straight.

Some will act on it, others will control it. We agree that acting on it is a sinful choice.

[Fiannan]

We probably agree generally. But I do know kids in the ward, know their good parents (not abusive families), and clearly the kids (boys) seem to be females trapped inside male bodies and are headed for homosexuality--but the choice is there's to stay straight.

Some will act on it, others will control it. We agree that acting on it is a sinful choice.

You actually are describing Swedish men but most are not gay despite what people in Norway, Finland and Russia think.

[Hyrcanus]

I don't think it is that hard to believe that people are born with certain predispositions. That doesn't give them license to act any differently than the rest of us, nor should it afford them any less charity and compassion when they sin.

It really doesn't matter that much though, even if their preferences for sin are a result of the way they were raised, they're still just as responsible for their actions. I agree that society wants to normalize their behavior, just like the want to normalize fornication and all sorts of other sins.

I think everyone agrees that there is no justification for sin. I think some are arguing that every sinner deserves compassion regardless of the sin and I doubt you disagree with that.

[SamFisher]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZXzUpzHLkA&app=desktop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Speaks to the core of this issue--to normalize homosexuality. Once it's legal, the Feds and special interests can pump the perversion down through the education system (Common Core) that they control. Our government overreach is our poison IV bag that the peddlers of filth use to pump their destruction into our veins.

[Rick Grimes]

We probably agree generally.

Judging by your last post and you choosing to post that link to the Youtube video about Mass. Gay Marriage, I'd agree with this. Thank you for that, by the way. Very insightfull, and indeed the very reason why it's important to never stop sounding the alarm that this devious behavior cannot be, in any way, normalized.

That doesn't give them license to act any differently than the rest of us, nor should it afford them any less charity and compassion when they sin.

Too true, and worth repeating. We should never give up on them, but we should never accept the sin or justify it.

Here is the part that I don't think many people are awake to the danger of this. This sin, being made more and more commonplace, and in our faces is slowly changing our definition of it even being a sin. Alexander Pope's Essay on Man, as quoted by Pres. Monson was very appropriate in summing up our current situation with this sin.

Vice is a monster of so frightful mien,
As to be hated needs but to be seen;
Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,
We first endure, then pity, then embrace.
Alexander Pope (1688-1744)
An Essay on Man, 1733-1734
Epistle II, line 217

[Thinker]

I agree that we need to maintain vigilant in calling harm/sin what it is.
Of course, we love the sinner, not the sin. We're all sinners!
As long as someone's not pushing their issues on me, I love them as anyone & will do all I can to help if they ask.

From what I've learned - (read, people I've known) - homosexual preferences are acquired, not innate.
It's really obvious from basic human development.
At birth, our brains are only 25% developed (mothers are thankful ), so we can better learn and adapt to environmental influences.

Many ex-homosexuals realize this clearly.
Often there are gender identity problems, that can be caused by how they relate with the same-sex and opposite-sex parents.
It is true that hormones can affect one's feelings - and it seems that more and more (both men and women) suffer from estrogen-dominance (because of enviormental factors/foods). Still, that doesn't CAUSE homosexual thoughts and feelings. As mentioned, the media (movies, music, internet) can and does influence how people think and there is no doubt of the attempts to normalize homosexual sexual substitutes. There are multiple factors that influence the desire of sexual substitutes, like homosexuality. IE: A friend got into drugs - so addicted that he did ANYTHING (including have anal sex with another man) to be able to support his drug addiction. Now, he's off drugs, and realizes the trap he got into, and that homosexual practices are harmful (physically & psychologically) yet still struggles with his feelings.

[Thinker]

After reading the comments about distinguishing the difference between thinking of doing something and acting on it... I thought of a couple of things...

Obviously, there are different types of sin, with different consequences. A lot depends on circumstance. It also depends on how much harm is caused by it.

Can thoughts cause harm? Metaphysically speaking, and according to Jesus, YES.
"You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Although the medical field doesn't push the idea of mind-body connections (less money in it), they acknowledge it by testing medications against the "placebo effect."

I believe that sin involves incorrect thoughts and related consequences, and that it begins (is rooted) in thought.
Everything we have in this world - this computer I'm typing on - was first thought of before created. IMO, It's how God works too.
Jesus healed by saying, "Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee." And those present were criticle, and Jesus responded, "For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?"
Jesus seemed to be so thoroughly aware of mind-body influences, that he was able to help others heal.

I think this is important to point out because how we think affects our physiology (including endocrine system/hormones) which in turn affects our thoughts - cyclically. IE: Men, who have recently become fathers and have been actively involved in caring for their child, have physiologically shown to have changes hormonally. Those who act or even obsess about homosexual feelings, may be changing their physiology accordingly. "As a man thinketh in his heart so is he."
Personally, I've realized the reality of this more and have tried to educate myself about cognitive distortions, life-traps and how they relate with my thoughts and those of others.

I also think it's important to go easy on ourselves and others - to not think of sin (incorrect thoughts etc.) as so shameful, as if we must not have anything to do with it, because that is impossible. God created us to sin - so we can be humble, so he can make weak things strong.

[Fiannan]

No matter what do not think about a green cat sitting on a pink unicorn..

[Fiannan]

Interesting. I just ran across an article (can't link due to language and references but it is a mainstream publication) that the claim is made that 1/2 of all subscriptions to lesbian porn sites are made by straight women. It gave some possible explainations for this but I was wondering if anyone wants to take a stab at this.

[Rick Grimes]

Not at all surprising, given the percentage of females that at least at one time in their lives, experiment with homosexuality. Lots of things can attribute to this, among others there is: peer pressure, societal acceptance of this behavior, the notion that it's "cute" or "sexy", the notion of "trying it" to see if you like it, etc....

If we see this behavior more and more "normalized", we will only see an explosion in the amount of people that fall prey to this sin's clutches. Take a look at the spike of Marijuana use by kids in Colorado and neighboring states because it has been legalized, if you need to see this phenomenon in action.

[Fiannan]

Not at all surprising, given the percentage of females that at least at one time in their lives, experiment with homosexuality. Lots of things can attribute to this, among others there is: peer pressure, societal acceptance of this behavior, the notion that it's "cute" or "sexy", the notion of "trying it" to see if you like it, etc....

If we see this behavior more and more "normalized", we will only see an explosion in the amount of people that fall prey to this sin's clutches. Take a look at the spike of Marijuana use by kids in Colorado and neighboring states because it has been legalized, if you need to see this phenomenon in action.

I absolutely agree with you. That is why on many posts I have said that pornography is a greater danger in respect to women than men. Men may view it and may either want to experiment with other women than his wife or might substitute it for intimacy with his wife. Yet male sexuality seems far more "fixed in place" than women's sexuality and it is doubtful many men want to experiment with either sex or a relationship with another man after seeing naked men in porn. However, every study indicates women are far more fluid in their sexuality. Evolutionary psychology can explain this in saying that same-sex behavior might have been a bonding mechanism in polygamist bands in human history and that is why there is not such a stigma, even in religions like ancient Judaism towards female bi-sexuality.

So here is why porn is a bigger danger for our young women than young men. A woman watches things like lesbian sex on the internet and sees it as romantic. She finds herself either as turned on watching two women together or more so than seeing a man and woman featured. She could either desire to experiment or even start believing she is bi-sexual or lesbian, especially if she comes from a conservative background. You see where this can go.

So then if a bi-sexual falls in love with another bi-sexual it does not matter if she identifies with a flannel-shirt wearing butch or a hard-core feminist who has rejected men, she and her lover may still wind up married and forming a lesbian couple. I believe the surge in "lesbians" desiring to raise families is that many of these women have not rejected the core values of family or even men as many lesbians back in the 1970s seemed to have done. They are merely women who have fallen in love with another woman but in times past they would have wound up with a man and raising a family. Expect a huge growth in female-female marriages and reliance on sperm banks in the next generation.

[Tim]

Fiannan, Your comments are thought provoking and I always consider that a good thing. Thanks!
Tim

Okay, so what would one say to the rabbi from my home town who said that if two Jewish women in his congregation were lesbians he would say that as long as they were having babies they would at least be following God's first commandment?

I recently spoke to a female rabbi who said that in the days of the OT lesbian sex was not considered sex so when there were polygamist marriages it allowed women who were into women the chance to procreate.

Oh, jnjnelson many of the modern prophets were illegally married to their wives. Only the first wife was recognized as a wife by the US government. So legally the man whose statue graces the Utah capitol building, Brigham Young, has two dozen wives he was not married to.

The laws regarding sexual unions have changed many times while man has been on earth. Abraham was married to his half-sister Sarah and that was okay, as was Jakob marrying two sisters. The Mosaic law regulated both practices. Yet when the LDS people practiced polygamy marriage to two sisters, marriage to a woman and her mother, was okay.

Now with all the changes in what is considered moral and immoral in God's eyes the one thing that has remained consistent is the importance of having children and maintaining the population. I have explained this in detail and still, a man and woman who marry in this life and refuse to have kids, even if they are healthy and intelligent, are just living as virtual homosexuals who don't have kids. Yet a couple that is gay that wants kids...you say that is worse than the ultimate act of selfishness?

[Fiannan]

Thank you Tim. Ultimately family is vital to the Church. Sometimes we see "official policies" but then have to ask if they are the right thing to do or not in light of the commandment to have families. For instance, some of Mitt Romney's grand kids were created with surrogacy. And even on an official Church page we read:

currently work at BYU for the Men's track team, as their bio electric massage therapist. I love my job! After having 5 beautiful children of my own, I was Utah's first legal surrogate in 2005, giving birth to twins for my sister in law. I adopted two children from underprivileged moms shortly thereafter. My youngest has special needs and is a ray of sunshine in our home. I have held the titles of Miss Teen of Utah 1996, Mrs. Utah 2010, now Ms. Utah Spirit 2012. My greatest honor though, was acheiving Mother of the year in 2011. Who could ask for more? I've learned that my work at home is priceless and changes 7 worlds everyday! My titles opened many doors to service. ."Mom" does that just as much or more!

http://www.mormon.org/me/9sj6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;