David,
You mentioned the homosexual agenda. It has been a strategic plan to sway public opinion by force - by bullying, by calling names, lying - anything that is required to psychologically undermine anyone who disagrees, so that those mentally weak will submit and go along. It explains why otherwise intelligent people are falling for ridiculous nonsense, that even defies their own undeniably true means of existence and reproduction.
"The homosexual propaganda campaign in America's media
The powerful, sophisticated psychological techniques that the homosexual movement has used to manipulate the public in the media.
From the 1989 book, "After the Ball - How America will conquer its fear and hatred of Gays in the 90s" (Penguin Books) which immediately became a beacon for the then-emerging homosexual movement.
Building on the basic strategies outlined in Marshall Kirk's groundbreaking 1987 article, "The Overhauling of Straight America", this book puts forth the very sophisticated psychological persuasion and propaganda mass media techniques that we've all seen and been affected by over the years -- but never understood what was happening....
A founding work of the modern homosexual movement, this book covers a wide discussion of tactics and observations relating to the homosexual movement. But the overall main psychological strategies are well summarized in a ten-page section (pp. 147-157) titled "Pushing the right buttons: halting, derailing, or reversing the 'engine of prejudice'". Reprinted below, this is the meat of the book which has been re-used and referred to by the homosexual movement countless times.
It discusses (1) Desensitization, (2) Jamming, and (3) Conversion."
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/issu ... _ball.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Homosexuality: Disorder
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Thinker
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David13
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Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
Recognizing a disorder as a disorder, a mental disorder, is NOT prejudice. It's basic knowledge.
The "engine of prejudice" in reality is a part of the vast campaign to bring about the acceptance as normal, of a perversion.
Another perversion of the homosexual agenda is to define anyone who opposes defining perversion as normal as a ... -phobe. Fearful. Afraid of the perversion.
No, there are just people who refuse to redefine the difference between right and wrong. And they continue to see homosexuality as a wrong and an abomination.
dc
The "engine of prejudice" in reality is a part of the vast campaign to bring about the acceptance as normal, of a perversion.
Another perversion of the homosexual agenda is to define anyone who opposes defining perversion as normal as a ... -phobe. Fearful. Afraid of the perversion.
No, there are just people who refuse to redefine the difference between right and wrong. And they continue to see homosexuality as a wrong and an abomination.
dc
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Thinker
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Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
I have been called such names - put down and even threatened anonymously, because I presented inconvenient truths about the glaring statistics revealing consequences of homosexual practices.David13 wrote:Recognizing a disorder as a disorder, a mental disorder, is NOT prejudice. It's basic knowledge.
The "engine of prejudice" in reality is a part of the vast campaign to bring about the acceptance as normal, of a perversion.
Another perversion of the homosexual agenda is to define anyone who opposes defining perversion as normal as a ... -phobe. Fearful. Afraid of the perversion.
No, there are just people who refuse to redefine the difference between right and wrong. And they continue to see homosexuality as a wrong and an abomination.
dc
Part of the reason is due to herd mentality - stoning anybody who objects to harmful behavior. But it could also be that people who are in the depth of some addiction - whether it is alcohol, food, sex, etc. - will sometimes act in very evil ways when they feel their idol of addiction is threatened. They project their fear, by calling out "homophobe."
It's kind of funny because I am probably less afraid of people with homosexual preferences than most.
Throughout my life, I've had many good friends with such preferences and a couple of people in my extended family have developed homosexual preferences. At times, I've reached out to them when others haven't - and I've even stood up for some who have been put down. I honestly believe in loving people, no matter if they prefer artichoke soup or sexual substitutes or any other preference. But I also feel morally obligated to point out harmful - sometimes FATAL - behavior for what it is, especially when so many are attempting to paint it as happy rainbows.
If I really love someone, I want what's best for them - not what's best for me in appearing "nice."
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Thinker
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Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
Again, it's important to remember that we ALL have some imperfection.
If someone were to tell a bone-skinny anorexic, "Yes, YOU are fat" - out of fear of disagreeing with them, how loving is that?
It's loving to call harm what it is, not pretend that it's healthy and "gay rainbows" when so often it proves otherwise.
The greatest commandment is to love others - and love God -God is the HIGHEST GOoD.
As we love others, we love GOoD.
Love the sinners - all of us - but don't love the sin.
If someone were to tell a bone-skinny anorexic, "Yes, YOU are fat" - out of fear of disagreeing with them, how loving is that?
It's loving to call harm what it is, not pretend that it's healthy and "gay rainbows" when so often it proves otherwise.
The greatest commandment is to love others - and love God -God is the HIGHEST GOoD.
As we love others, we love GOoD.
Love the sinners - all of us - but don't love the sin.
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simpleton
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Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
let the scriptures speak for themselves......
Romans 1King James Version (KJV)
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
King James Version (KJV)
Romans 1King James Version (KJV)
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
King James Version (KJV)
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simpleton
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Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
Leviticus 18:20
Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour’s wife, to defile thyself with her.
21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)
28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God.
Again more scriptures...but I suppose we could excuse ourselves and say the law of Moses was done away...
Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour’s wife, to defile thyself with her.
21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)
28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God.
Again more scriptures...but I suppose we could excuse ourselves and say the law of Moses was done away...
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simpleton
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Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
For the life of me (and no I am not blasting my own horn or in thinking I am any better than anybody else) all this dilly dallyin around with nice words is not going to solve the problem ....Repent Repent ...go thy way and sin no more...but if not then we will suffer the consequences...
Disorder.....call it what it is and face the music...we have brought it upon ourselves. ..the inner vessel is filthy...as in our houses ..our society. ..etc etc..and unless we repent it is just going to get worse and worse. ..and according to our lovely beautiful book of Morman, we get worse until a big fat spanking comes our way...and then it seems that part of the spanking is in the form of the remnant of Jacob that comes among us like a lion among sheep...
But back to the point...is "happy boy" ( that's what a friend calls it) syndrome a disorder...absolutely. ..actually a sin unto death so says Apostle Paul ....and now dont go jumping all over me... he said it not me ....but you can get on my case because frankly i agree with him...and also no excuses as he is from the new testament after Christ... one of my many hero's .....but my observations tell me that unless we as a people repent and get our heads out of the clouds it's just going to get worse until we make Sodom and Gomorrah look like a picnic...
Go do just a little research into crime statistics in the state of Utah in the 1800s then compare them to today's statistics...it is literally the brightest of day to the darkest of nights...so be sensible ...what happened ...why wasn't there practically nothing in the way of crime or adultery or anything for that matter then and now today...no such a thing as homosexuality then ...today rampant...why? (Among other things)...but it's getting to be rampant in our church...something tells me something is dreadfully wrong...but if you dare say anything...you are self-righteous. ...
Now what's good for the finger pointing goose is good for the gander...my children? I have 15 ...8 boys 7 girls...if anyone of them gets into that garbage of same sex crap...they know I love them but will absolutely not tolerate it in my home....my castle...my house, that was dedicated for my family to live in ...in peace and protection from the adversary....so if I let that garbage into my house I give the adversary power over me and my children...Isaiah says who will be saved in the last days...those that hide their eyes and close their ears to the hearing of evil and violence...and I have a question ...how many people here have seen a live murder on the street ..me ? never in my 55 yr life ....and then how many murders have we watched on television....movies...novels. etc.how about adultery ....homosexuality...pornography.....molestation....abuse... swearing...and also swearing using our Lords name in vain....etc etc etc...there is no end or countless are the ways to sin....so says the good book
So I just reread....makes for a depressing gloomy outlook...
But is there hope? Absolutely ...and what is the hope?...repent ye repent ye for the kingdom of God is at hand...yea come unto me ye weary and heavily laden and bare my cross it is light and pleasant..etc
Now if we truly want and desire to go into the celestial kingdom...like Joseph Smith said it requires a sacrifice of all earthly things and even life itself...or at least the willingness to forfeit our personal life.
How many are truly willing?
This has gone on way to long ...apologies if I have insulted the innocent ...but no apologies for the homosexual....adiós
Disorder.....call it what it is and face the music...we have brought it upon ourselves. ..the inner vessel is filthy...as in our houses ..our society. ..etc etc..and unless we repent it is just going to get worse and worse. ..and according to our lovely beautiful book of Morman, we get worse until a big fat spanking comes our way...and then it seems that part of the spanking is in the form of the remnant of Jacob that comes among us like a lion among sheep...
But back to the point...is "happy boy" ( that's what a friend calls it) syndrome a disorder...absolutely. ..actually a sin unto death so says Apostle Paul ....and now dont go jumping all over me... he said it not me ....but you can get on my case because frankly i agree with him...and also no excuses as he is from the new testament after Christ... one of my many hero's .....but my observations tell me that unless we as a people repent and get our heads out of the clouds it's just going to get worse until we make Sodom and Gomorrah look like a picnic...
Go do just a little research into crime statistics in the state of Utah in the 1800s then compare them to today's statistics...it is literally the brightest of day to the darkest of nights...so be sensible ...what happened ...why wasn't there practically nothing in the way of crime or adultery or anything for that matter then and now today...no such a thing as homosexuality then ...today rampant...why? (Among other things)...but it's getting to be rampant in our church...something tells me something is dreadfully wrong...but if you dare say anything...you are self-righteous. ...
Now what's good for the finger pointing goose is good for the gander...my children? I have 15 ...8 boys 7 girls...if anyone of them gets into that garbage of same sex crap...they know I love them but will absolutely not tolerate it in my home....my castle...my house, that was dedicated for my family to live in ...in peace and protection from the adversary....so if I let that garbage into my house I give the adversary power over me and my children...Isaiah says who will be saved in the last days...those that hide their eyes and close their ears to the hearing of evil and violence...and I have a question ...how many people here have seen a live murder on the street ..me ? never in my 55 yr life ....and then how many murders have we watched on television....movies...novels. etc.how about adultery ....homosexuality...pornography.....molestation....abuse... swearing...and also swearing using our Lords name in vain....etc etc etc...there is no end or countless are the ways to sin....so says the good book
So I just reread....makes for a depressing gloomy outlook...
But is there hope? Absolutely ...and what is the hope?...repent ye repent ye for the kingdom of God is at hand...yea come unto me ye weary and heavily laden and bare my cross it is light and pleasant..etc
Now if we truly want and desire to go into the celestial kingdom...like Joseph Smith said it requires a sacrifice of all earthly things and even life itself...or at least the willingness to forfeit our personal life.
How many are truly willing?
This has gone on way to long ...apologies if I have insulted the innocent ...but no apologies for the homosexual....adiós
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simpleton
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3080
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
Well I couldn't stand it as this topic has been talked around.....discussed...dissected. ..in our family
But this applies:
Vice is a monster of so frightful mien, As, to be hated, needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, We first endure, then pity, then embrace.
That's what is happening with our society. .
I've read a few articles recently ...1 about a study in I think it was done by the government of Sweden or Switzerland that did about the effects on people of all the chemicals in our foods in our lives houses..factories...pvc...fuels..vaccines. ..Gmo ...very interesting ..the study was done with a huge group of people seemed like the whole nation...their conclusión was that it was making men effeminate and that one of the signs was your boys wanting to play with dolls...lol...and girls becoming masculine. ..
So there must be a conspiracy
J.S. said so ...I guess it must be true..
" A band of evil conspiring men would poison our food supply"
But this applies:
Vice is a monster of so frightful mien, As, to be hated, needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, We first endure, then pity, then embrace.
That's what is happening with our society. .
I've read a few articles recently ...1 about a study in I think it was done by the government of Sweden or Switzerland that did about the effects on people of all the chemicals in our foods in our lives houses..factories...pvc...fuels..vaccines. ..Gmo ...very interesting ..the study was done with a huge group of people seemed like the whole nation...their conclusión was that it was making men effeminate and that one of the signs was your boys wanting to play with dolls...lol...and girls becoming masculine. ..
So there must be a conspiracy
J.S. said so ...I guess it must be true..
" A band of evil conspiring men would poison our food supply"
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Ezra
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4357
- Location: Not telling
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
You mean we have the wow to fight aginst gayness?
Make sence.
And really as a body of lds. Do we follow the wow??? Not even close. I know of maybe 1% that do. I talking about the diet.
Make sence.
And really as a body of lds. Do we follow the wow??? Not even close. I know of maybe 1% that do. I talking about the diet.
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simpleton
- captain of 1,000
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Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
Also another interesting thing is B Y believed and practiced the "" blood atonement" ...as in the ecclesiastical church which I guess technically was under the umbrella of the literal "Kingdom of God" ...so yes it was enforced...
That would resolve mucho problemas
Actually I shouldn't say "he practiced it" the whole kingdom of Deseret did...
That would resolve mucho problemas
Actually I shouldn't say "he practiced it" the whole kingdom of Deseret did...
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Ezra
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Jamescm
- captain of 100
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Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
It confuses me why one would reject homosexuality as a "disorder". You may embrace it, you may build your identity and entire political face on it, you may attempt to weild government into forcing all others to support it, but that doesn't make it "not a disorder".
Aberrant, unusual, not normal, indifferent or contrary to the actual purpose and drive of the original. Objectively and non-pejoratively, homosexuality is a disorder. It is not insensitive to say so, and a rejection of such a notion is a terrible disservice to those actually experiencing same-sex attraction who are trying to better understand themselves.
Aberrant, unusual, not normal, indifferent or contrary to the actual purpose and drive of the original. Objectively and non-pejoratively, homosexuality is a disorder. It is not insensitive to say so, and a rejection of such a notion is a terrible disservice to those actually experiencing same-sex attraction who are trying to better understand themselves.
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zionminded
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1438
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
It is a terrible disservice to label people as broken or flawed, when they may just be different than you, based on your culture and beliefs. The statistics behind homosexual reparative therapy has become very controversial, because it simply doesn't work.Jamescm wrote:It confuses me why one would reject homosexuality as a "disorder". You may embrace it, you may build your identity and entire political face on it, you may attempt to weild government into forcing all others to support it, but that doesn't make it "not a disorder".
Aberrant, unusual, not normal, indifferent or contrary to the actual purpose and drive of the original. Objectively and non-pejoratively, homosexuality is a disorder. It is not insensitive to say so, and a rejection of such a notion is a terrible disservice to those actually experiencing same-sex attraction who are trying to better understand themselves.
http://www.josephnicolosi.com/what-is-r ... erapy-exa/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Thinker
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: The Universe - wherever that is.
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
Zionminded,
I agree that name-calling is wrong, and that is why I have not called anyone names, rather focused on BEHAVIOR.
And why I've encouraged us all to remember that we ALL are sinners - and to love all sinners (all of us) but to NOT love sin.
I've gone to different 12-step programs and I do see some wisdom in acknowledging they have a problem but I don't like labeling themselves, "My name is.... and I am an alcoholic."
It is important to NOT identify oneself by one's behavior.
I may have done this at times - because it's easier to state - but really, homosexuality is behavior independent of the identity of an individual.
When you label yourself something, self-fulfilling prophecy can happen and it basically makes people stuck either in their minds or in those doing the labeling.
But behavior must be labeled for what it is - if it causes harm and proves to be a disorder (state of confusion) then it is important to not deny the truth, for the sake of well-being of those who believe whatever you say.
I agree that name-calling is wrong, and that is why I have not called anyone names, rather focused on BEHAVIOR.
And why I've encouraged us all to remember that we ALL are sinners - and to love all sinners (all of us) but to NOT love sin.
I've gone to different 12-step programs and I do see some wisdom in acknowledging they have a problem but I don't like labeling themselves, "My name is.... and I am an alcoholic."
It is important to NOT identify oneself by one's behavior.
I may have done this at times - because it's easier to state - but really, homosexuality is behavior independent of the identity of an individual.
When you label yourself something, self-fulfilling prophecy can happen and it basically makes people stuck either in their minds or in those doing the labeling.
But behavior must be labeled for what it is - if it causes harm and proves to be a disorder (state of confusion) then it is important to not deny the truth, for the sake of well-being of those who believe whatever you say.
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zionminded
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1438
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
Thinker wrote:Zionminded,
I agree that name-calling is wrong, and that is why I have not called anyone names, rather focused on BEHAVIOR.
And why I've encouraged us all to remember that we ALL are sinners - and to love all sinners (all of us) but to NOT love sin.
I've gone to different 12-step programs and I do see some wisdom in acknowledging they have a problem but I don't like labeling themselves, "My name is.... and I am an alcoholic."
It is important to NOT identify oneself by one's behavior.
I may have done this at times - because it's easier to state - but really, homosexuality is behavior independent of the identity of an individual.
When you label yourself something, self-fulfilling prophecy can happen and it basically makes people stuck either in their minds or in those doing the labeling.
But behavior must be labeled for what it is - if it causes harm and proves to be a disorder (state of confusion) then it is important to not deny the truth, for the sake of well-being of those who believe whatever you say.
Thank you.
Heterosexuality is a behavior too. Clearly heterosexual copulation is needed for making babies, but most sex has nothing little to with making babies. Does that mean that heterosexual outside of this normal biological function is bad? Of course not, because we've approved its use in the bounds of marriage.
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Thinker
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- Posts: 13111
- Location: The Universe - wherever that is.
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
Your response has so many relative logical fallacies: firstly because you didn't respond to my reponse, strawmen and red hering, but also argumentum ad populum, observational selection, non sequitur and bandwagon fallacy.zionminded wrote:Thinker wrote:Zionminded,
I agree that name-calling is wrong, and that is why I have not called anyone names, rather focused on BEHAVIOR.
And why I've encouraged us all to remember that we ALL are sinners - and to love all sinners (all of us) but to NOT love sin.
I've gone to different 12-step programs and I do see some wisdom in acknowledging they have a problem but I don't like labeling themselves, "My name is.... and I am an alcoholic."
It is important to NOT identify oneself by one's behavior.
I may have done this at times - because it's easier to state - but really, homosexuality is behavior independent of the identity of an individual.
When you label yourself something, self-fulfilling prophecy can happen and it basically makes people stuck either in their minds or in those doing the labeling.
But behavior must be labeled for what it is - if it causes harm and proves to be a disorder (state of confusion) then it is important to not deny the truth, for the sake of well-being of those who believe whatever you say.
Thank you.
Heterosexuality is a behavior too. Clearly heterosexual copulation is needed for making babies, but most sex has nothing little to with making babies. Does that mean that heterosexual outside of this normal biological function is bad? Of course not, because we've approved its use in the bounds of marriage.
With all due respect, as a therapist, it would be good for you to educate yourself on basic cognitive distortions (many of which are logical fallacies) so you can help your clients think, and thereby feel and act better.
Obviously, a lot of hetersexual (man/woman) sexual intercourse does not produce children, but ALL children come from heterosexual union (sperm & egg). This is why common sense told law makers for centuries that the society (& future societies) are all founded and come from the union of a man and a woman, so it is in society's interest to recognize, honor & support that union.
Marriage is primarily for the future society - to make sure children are given a comitted relationship in which to be raised.
Sex is healthy - as long as it doesn't hurt either.
But the choice for 2 men is to resort to sexual substitutes - anal sex - which is NOT healthy because (besides risks of AIDS/HIV and STDS), anal sex has risks of anal fissures, anal cancer, colon rupture and bacterial infection. These are medical FACTS.
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zionminded
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1438
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
All good points, but homophobic positions are based largely on the distain for homosexual sex. These facts are very small statistics in comparison to much larger issues, like the prevalence of HIV in reckless behaviors, suicide rates, stable families, acceptance etc.Thinker wrote:Your response has so many relative logical fallacies: firstly because you didn't respond to my reponse, strawmen and red hering, but also argumentum ad populum, observational selection, non sequitur and bandwagon fallacy.zionminded wrote:Thinker wrote:Zionminded,
I agree that name-calling is wrong, and that is why I have not called anyone names, rather focused on BEHAVIOR.
And why I've encouraged us all to remember that we ALL are sinners - and to love all sinners (all of us) but to NOT love sin.
I've gone to different 12-step programs and I do see some wisdom in acknowledging they have a problem but I don't like labeling themselves, "My name is.... and I am an alcoholic."
It is important to NOT identify oneself by one's behavior.
I may have done this at times - because it's easier to state - but really, homosexuality is behavior independent of the identity of an individual.
When you label yourself something, self-fulfilling prophecy can happen and it basically makes people stuck either in their minds or in those doing the labeling.
But behavior must be labeled for what it is - if it causes harm and proves to be a disorder (state of confusion) then it is important to not deny the truth, for the sake of well-being of those who believe whatever you say.
Thank you.
Heterosexuality is a behavior too. Clearly heterosexual copulation is needed for making babies, but most sex has nothing little to with making babies. Does that mean that heterosexual outside of this normal biological function is bad? Of course not, because we've approved its use in the bounds of marriage.
With all due respect, as a therapist, it would be good for you to educate yourself on basic cognitive distortions (many of which are logical fallacies) so you can help your clients think, and thereby feel and act better.
Obviously, a lot of hetersexual (man/woman) sexual intercourse does not produce children, but ALL children come from heterosexual union (sperm & egg). This is why common sense told law makers for centuries that the society (& future societies) are all founded and come from the union of a man and a woman, so it is in society's interest to recognize, honor & support that union.
Marriage is primarily for the future society - to make sure children are given a comitted relationship in which to be raised.
Sex is healthy - as long as it doesn't hurt either.
But the choice for 2 men is to resort to sexual substitutes - anal sex - which is NOT healthy because (besides risks of AIDS/HIV and STDS), anal sex has risks of anal fissures, anal cancer, colon rupture and bacterial infection. These are medical FACTS.
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Thinker
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13111
- Location: The Universe - wherever that is.
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
Zionminded,
I have presented plenty of objective data from sources like the United States Center for Disease Control. You have made assertions based on logical fallacies & of course no data to support it.
It is absurd for you to suggest you somehow KNOW what I fear - as if you were a mind reader, and as if feelings trump facts (emotional reasoning logical fallacy). When I hear the ad hominem attack, “homophobe” - it’s been a couple things:
1) People repeating jargon they heard others say - continuing the mind control systematically created by a researcher in neuropsychiatry & implemented so well by leftists that many blindly preach such lies without realizing how they were manipulated.
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/issu ... _ball.html ... &/or...
2) The person is projecting their own fear of facts like anal sex risks, high rates of STDs, HIV/AIDs & mental illness among those practicing homosexuality.
“Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.”
I have presented plenty of objective data from sources like the United States Center for Disease Control. You have made assertions based on logical fallacies & of course no data to support it.
It is absurd for you to suggest you somehow KNOW what I fear - as if you were a mind reader, and as if feelings trump facts (emotional reasoning logical fallacy). When I hear the ad hominem attack, “homophobe” - it’s been a couple things:
1) People repeating jargon they heard others say - continuing the mind control systematically created by a researcher in neuropsychiatry & implemented so well by leftists that many blindly preach such lies without realizing how they were manipulated.
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/issu ... _ball.html ... &/or...
2) The person is projecting their own fear of facts like anal sex risks, high rates of STDs, HIV/AIDs & mental illness among those practicing homosexuality.
“Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.”
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eddie
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2405
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
It's difficult to understand taking a tolerant stand on homosexuality, even sympathetic . It is an unhappy lifestyle with a high incidence of suicide.
It doesn't mean we hate the sinner, just the sin.
It doesn't mean we hate the sinner, just the sin.
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Daniel2
- captain of 50
- Posts: 78
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
"Homosexuality" isn't a behavior... it's "sexual attraction to people of one's own sex." Sexual behavior is behavior.Thinker wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2016, 2:10 pm but really, homosexuality is behavior independent of the identity of an individual.
When you label yourself something, self-fulfilling prophecy can happen and it basically makes people stuck either in their minds or in those doing the labeling.
But behavior must be labeled for what it is - if it causes harm and proves to be a disorder (state of confusion) then it is important to not deny the truth, for the sake of well-being of those who believe whatever you say.
While we cannot and do not choose to whom we're attracted, we can choose how and when to act upon them.
How we choose to define ourselves may or may not be congruent with our inherent sexual orientation.
Many of us who have denied our innate attractions for a long time and dealt with them in unhealthy and dysfunctional ways find a sense of peace and fulfillment in acknowledging that we are, in fact, gay. Doing so isn't always defining ourselves by our sexual behavior, because many of us identify as gay whether we're acting on it or not. Our invocation of the identity as 'gay' or 'lesbian' is a relief, because we finally feel we no longer have to pretend to be or seem like someone we're not.
Even as it cautions people not to define themselves by their homosexuality, the LDS church recognizes that coming out can be valuable and healthy for at least some people and even some of it's own members.
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David13
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 7083
- Location: Utah
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
Daniel2 wrote: ↑October 12th, 2017, 5:44 pm"Homosexuality" isn't a behavior... it's "sexual attraction to people of one's own sex." Sexual behavior is behavior.Thinker wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2016, 2:10 pm but really, homosexuality is behavior independent of the identity of an individual.
When you label yourself something, self-fulfilling prophecy can happen and it basically makes people stuck either in their minds or in those doing the labeling.
But behavior must be labeled for what it is - if it causes harm and proves to be a disorder (state of confusion) then it is important to not deny the truth, for the sake of well-being of those who believe whatever you say.
While we cannot and do not choose to whom we're attracted, we can choose how and when to act upon them.
How we choose to define ourselves may or may not be congruent with our inherent sexual orientation.
Many of us who have denied our innate attractions for a long time and dealt with them in unhealthy and dysfunctional ways find a sense of peace and fulfillment in acknowledging that we are, in fact, gay. Doing so isn't always defining ourselves by our sexual behavior, because many of us identify as gay whether we're acting on it or not. Our invocation of the identity as 'gay' or 'lesbian' is a relief, because we finally feel we no longer have to pretend to be or seem like someone we're not.
Even as it cautions people not to define themselves by their homosexuality, the LDS church recognizes that coming out can be valuable and healthy for at least some people and even some of it's own members.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step in resolving the problem, and returning to normality.
dc
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Daniel2
- captain of 50
- Posts: 78
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
Agreed! That’s why it was healthy for me to finally admit I was suffering from LDS-delusion before I was able to return to normality.David13 wrote: ↑October 13th, 2017, 9:00 amDaniel2 wrote: ↑October 12th, 2017, 5:44 pm"Homosexuality" isn't a behavior... it's "sexual attraction to people of one's own sex." Sexual behavior is behavior.Thinker wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2016, 2:10 pm but really, homosexuality is behavior independent of the identity of an individual.
When you label yourself something, self-fulfilling prophecy can happen and it basically makes people stuck either in their minds or in those doing the labeling.
But behavior must be labeled for what it is - if it causes harm and proves to be a disorder (state of confusion) then it is important to not deny the truth, for the sake of well-being of those who believe whatever you say.
While we cannot and do not choose to whom we're attracted, we can choose how and when to act upon them.
How we choose to define ourselves may or may not be congruent with our inherent sexual orientation.
Many of us who have denied our innate attractions for a long time and dealt with them in unhealthy and dysfunctional ways find a sense of peace and fulfillment in acknowledging that we are, in fact, gay. Doing so isn't always defining ourselves by our sexual behavior, because many of us identify as gay whether we're acting on it or not. Our invocation of the identity as 'gay' or 'lesbian' is a relief, because we finally feel we no longer have to pretend to be or seem like someone we're not.
Even as it cautions people not to define themselves by their homosexuality, the LDS church recognizes that coming out can be valuable and healthy for at least some people and even some of it's own members.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step in resolving the problem, and returning to normality.
dc
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Serragon
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3459
Re: Homosexuality: Disorder
The act of labeling oneself is behavior.
If you take upon yourself the title of homosexual, you are taking an action to separate yourself from everyone else. Your carnal desire becomes your identity.
It is not healthy. It does not heal. It simply elevates something that should be subdued to become the defining characteristic in your life.
