Green Tea: Your thoughts?

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laronius
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby laronius » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:20 pm

Stella Solaris wrote:
DrJones wrote:The use of a beverage from which the deleterious ingredients have been removed would not be considered as breaking the Word of Wisdom. This would include Sanka coffee.
DrJones wrote:Please note, Stella, that Sanka (de-caf) coffee is not "banned".

Would de-caf green tea be OK also?
So nice to have my erroneous belief corrected - especially in big, bold print. They should really make a footnote (or 20) to the WoW, shouldn't they? I wonder what the deleterious ingredients (plural) were? Any information on that? Is Sanka brand any different than any other brand of decaff coffee?

Just so you know, I could care less about any of this for myself personally. I drink water - plain ol' filtered water - that's it. I just don't believe for one second caffeine is the ONLY deleterious ingredient in coffee/tea.
A couple issues I have with this statement thought to have been put out by the Church. 1. I find it hard to believe the church would specifically sanction a certain brand of beverage as acceptable. 2. As you state, caffeine is not the deleterious ingredient in these beverages. 3. If caffeine was the main issue, I would have thought they would say more about other caffeinated beverages. Just a couple things that make me raise my eyebrow. But I too haven't found anything official to state either way so it must be another thing left up to us to decide what is best. :-\
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby JohnnyL » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:42 am

DrJones wrote:
Stella Solaris wrote:If caffeine was the only reason tea and coffee are banned per the WoW, then we should be able to drink decaffeinated coffee with no problem, but it is still banned. \\\.
I have heard that decaf coffee is OK, per the Church, but I don't have a reference for that. IIRC, this was important to my mother-in-law, a convert to the church.
Does anyone have a definitive statement? (NOT that I'm interested in decaf-coffee!)
"The use of a beverage from which the deleterious ingredients have been removed would not be considered as breaking the Word of Wisdom. This would include Sanka coffee."
And there's the crux--excuse my assumption--they were assuming that caffeine is the ONLY "deleterious ingredient". Whoops! Guess what?
Which gets back to my previous post.

As has been mentioned, the Japanese have known green tea isn't right; the Taiwanese, too, for years and years. It's very simple: tea plant = WoW tea.

BTW, a 52oz Dr. Pepper isn't a very good choice, either.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby gruden2.0 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:53 pm

It's interesting how people get worked up about tea & caffeine, yet continue to dump far worse substances into their bodies without a single thought.

A while ago I posted an article showing how soda (high fructose corn syrup in particular) has the same effect on the body - particularly the liver - as beer (minus the buzz, of course). Doesn't seemed to have registered. HFCS wasn't made for the body - it is an industrial sweetener that taxes the body and contributes to obesity. But who cares - it doesn't stop me from getting a temple recommend so why not?

I managed to kill a thread a while ago posting an experience I once had a few years ago when I was drinking a Pepsi and the Spirit whispered to me that this drink damages ones spirituality. I asked & prayed if it was the whole drink or an ingredient. The answer I eventually got was... HFCS.

And then there's the artificial sweeteners. Despite reams of (largely suppressed and marginalized) research showing how damaging it is to the body, people keep drinking their Diet Cokes. But life is meant to be enjoyed, even if it has a strange chemical aftertaste. We're drowning in our addictions.

The very beginning of the WoW speaks of the evil designs of conspiring men in the last days. What are they conspiring? Look around at all this junk that passes for food. If anything supports the need for continuing revelation, it is what we should eat and what to avoid. What Adam & Eve ate in the garden is no longer good enough, so we need to be reminded by more rules what we should be doing.

Nevertheless, the WoW is a key for the true seekers of knowledge. For those seeking to go further, this is one key to unlocking more mysteries of the Spirit, which is why it is not given by constraint. Those who wish to find new avenues of growth will give up their Cokes and Pepsis, while those who won't... can have what they're willing to have. There is a mind-body-spirit connection. If you damage your body, it inhibits your spirit's ability to act upon it. It is a choice for each.

Interestingly, I read a while ago how, while in Carthage jail, Joseph sent for some wine to lift their depressed spirits. The man who received the WoW having a little wine for comfort. Maybe this is food for thought as to what these things mean to us. Heck, even the sacrament allows for real wine.
The time will come when this people will be led onto the very brink of hell by their leaders, then the one mighty and strong will come to set the house of God in order. Brigham Young, Mosiah Hancock journal, pg. 19

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby Meili » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:03 pm

Strong drinks, not alcohol, is what we are advised against in the Word of Wisdom. Wine traditionally had very little alcohol, as did beer, and so they were totally acceptable according to the Word of Wisdom. However, rumor has it that in our day, the stuff at the grocery store has been made purposely to be addictive. I believe wine and beer were actually good for you traditionally, but I wouldn't trust today's alcoholic beverages. Hence the reason it was okay for Jesus to drink wine but isn't okay for us to do it now.
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby JohnnyL » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:45 am

gruden 2.0,

check out Pres. Packer's talk on the WoW. You'll enjoy! :)

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby Ribble » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:29 am

gruden 2.0,

I enjoyed your take. I find it amusing that members get so worked up over substances like green tea, yet have no problem with far more dangerous ingredients that many are consuming on a daily basis. Not to mention the toxic pharmaceuticals that are becoming a way of life.

You can't drink green tea, but as long as you have an RX you can indulge in amphetamines, opiates, etc., to your hearts content. Where's the logic in this?

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby mingano » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:31 am

If not for been human civilization would not have been possible. Beer provided drink that would not kill you (the fermentation process helps purify the water) and encouraged farming and settlements. A wonderful book is A History Of the World In Six Glasses and studies how beverages shaped the course of human history.
A History of the World in 6 Glasses tells the story of humanity from the Stone Age to the 21st century through the lens of beer, wine, spirits, coffee, tea, and cola. Beer was first made in the Fertile Crescent and by 3000 B.C.E. was so important to Mesopotamia and Egypt that it was used to pay wages. In ancient Greece wine became the main export of her vast seaborne trade, helping spread Greek culture abroad. Spirits such as brandy and rum fueled the Age of Exploration, fortifying seamen on long voyages and oiling the pernicious slave trade. Although coffee originated in the Arab world, it stoked revolutionary thought in Europe during the Age of Reason, when coffeehouses became centers of intellectual exchange. And hundreds of years after the Chinese began drinking tea, it became especially popular in Britain, with far-reaching effects on British foreign policy. Finally, though carbonated drinks were invented in 18th-century Europe they became a 20th-century phenomenon, and Coca-Cola in particular is the leading symbol of globalization.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby JohnnyL » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:57 pm

mingano wrote:If not for been human civilization would not have been possible. Beer provided drink that would not kill you (the fermentation process helps purify the water) and encouraged farming and settlements. A wonderful book is A History Of the World In Six Glasses and studies how beverages shaped the course of human history.
A History of the World in 6 Glasses tells the story of humanity from the Stone Age to the 21st century through the lens of beer, wine, spirits, coffee, tea, and cola. Beer was first made in the Fertile Crescent and by 3000 B.C.E. was so important to Mesopotamia and Egypt that it was used to pay wages. In ancient Greece wine became the main export of her vast seaborne trade, helping spread Greek culture abroad. Spirits such as brandy and rum fueled the Age of Exploration, fortifying seamen on long voyages and oiling the pernicious slave trade. Although coffee originated in the Arab world, it stoked revolutionary thought in Europe during the Age of Reason, when coffeehouses became centers of intellectual exchange. And hundreds of years after the Chinese began drinking tea, it became especially popular in Britain, with far-reaching effects on British foreign policy. Finally, though carbonated drinks were invented in 18th-century Europe they became a 20th-century phenomenon, and Coca-Cola in particular is the leading symbol of globalization.
No, not human civilization---just human civilization as we know it. Big difference. And much worse because of those things, than not.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby Redfeather » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:32 am

I have been a member most of my life. Green Tea-cold-decaf, if drank for medical reasons is not against the Word Of Wisdom. Ask you Bishop or Stake Presidency. Have you ever drank a soda? Picked up a bottle of Nyquil? Soda has caffeine. Nyquil has alcohol. End of discussion. Judge not lease Ye will be judged.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby buffalo_girl » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:08 pm

I have been a member most of my life. Green Tea-cold-decaf, if drank for medical reasons is not against the Word Of Wisdom. Ask you Bishop or Stake Presidency. Have you ever drank a soda? Picked up a bottle of Nyquil? Soda has caffeine. Nyquil has alcohol. End of discussion. Judge not lease Ye will be judged.

Hello, Redfeather!

No one needs to judge another person for any reason, but it is important to understand that there can be serious health risks for any of the 'products' you have listed.

Since I stopped drinking regular (not diet) sodas (maybe 3-4 cans a week) two years ago, my blood pressure has decreased from very high to normal, and I have had no more tooth decay problems. My blood pressure was such that a cardiologist prescribed medication I would have been required to take the rest of my life! I decided I would rather take matters to the Lord and see what I could do to bring it down rather than to rely on expensive prescription drugs the rest of my life.

Nyquil has acetaminophen besides alcohol which may be even more troublesome than just having a shot of brandy when you have a cold. The combination of acetaminophen & alcohol can cause increased blood pressure, liver & kidney damage.

http://health.ucsd.edu/specialties/gast ... ophen.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Green tea - even without caffeine - has high levels of flouride and tannin - both toxic when used frequently.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby caddis » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:25 pm

buffalo_girl wrote:Caffeine In anything seems to become an addiction issue.

Although green tea appears to have some health benefits along with the caffeine amp, I am also concerned about the fluoride content of it. From what I've read, fluoride is NOT healthy.

Look into the use of Yerba Mate as a mild stimulant with real health benefits...

http://www.yerbamateassociation.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Modern science is shedding light on the many benefits of yerba mate, including its: robust nutrition profile; high level of antioxidants; balanced and sustained stimulation; boost to the immune system; ability to enhance mental clarity; effect in relieving allergy symptoms; role in weight management and elimination; and its relationship to help control or limit other common modern ailments including diabetes, poor circulation, cholesterol and halitosis.

Studies of Antioxidant Properties of Yerba Mate Yerba mate has significant antioxidant activity. In 2005, researchers at the University of Illinois at Champaign –Urbana analyzed 25 different kinds of yerba mate and found that mate contained higher levels of antioxidants than green tea and, and based on cellular studies, reported that there was a correlation between yerba mate’s polyphenol content, antioxidant capacity and human topoisomerase inhibition that may help prevent oral cancer.

Prior to this most recent research, researchers in 1995 published a study in Biochemical and Molecular Biology International in which they concluded that water extracts of yerba mate “were more potent antioxidants than either ascorbic acid (vitamin C) or butylated hydroxytoluene.” A few years later, a group of researchers embarked on a study to again investigate the antioxidant properties of Ilex paraguariensis infusions. Those findings were published in March of 2000 in the Journal Biochemical and Biophysica Research Communications. Their results suggest “that ingestion of extracts of Ilex paraguariensis could contribute to an increase in the antioxidant defense of an organism against free radicals attack.” In a more recent study, published in the November 2001 issue of Fitoterapia, researchers took a look at seven different plant species in South America. They found that yerba mate “contained a higher content of flavonoids and caffeoyl derivatives than any other assayed species.”

Sustains Energy
Yerba mate is a central nervous system stimulant that provides a unique sustaining energy due to its complex combination of xanthine alkaloids including caffeine, theophylline (also found in green tea) and theobromine (the “euphoriant” also found in chocolate), as well as pantothenic acid - which prevents over-stimulation of the central nervous system. Yerba mate is also a rich source of magnesium, which has been proven to ease anxiety without over-stimulating
.
+1 for Yerba Mate.
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby caddis » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:27 pm

InfoWarrior82 wrote:It's really about the tanic acids in tea and coffee. I'm not sure if that's included in green tea. Herbal teas are OK... so we just have to find out if green tea is considered an herbal tea.
I hear this a lot. Source?
All truth goes through three phases: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self evident.
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby rewcox » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:52 pm

At LDSFF, beer, coffee, wine, tea are fashionable.

Polygamy is still under discussion...

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby FSM » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:43 pm

Green tea is a violation of the word of wisdom. I think......well maybe not but I'm staying away from the stuff. It drives the spirit away. BYW if anyone sees the spirit can you tell it we need to talk. It knows where to find me.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby OCDMOM » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:45 pm

All I know is it tastes like hay.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby uglypitbull » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:59 pm

To me this is all semantics.... if you want to know the reason for the Word of Wisdom, read D&C 89:4. Its very telling.....

Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby kidsmoke » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:39 pm

Christ cares about this?

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby JohnnyL » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:01 am

It's against the WoW. Absolutely. So are other real teas.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby Matchmaker » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:31 am

I know that black tea is against the WOW. Its leaves come from the camillia sinenses shrub. Green tea leaves also come from the same camillia sinenses shrub and will become black tea leaves if they are processed and oxidized a little bit longer. Green tea is black tea that has not been oxidized as long, but it is still tea.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby Desert Roses » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:21 am

BroJones wrote: Here is a letter from the First Presidency found on the net stating that Sanka (de-caf) coffee is OK:
The Church has not officially taken any other attitude on this matter. Leaders of the Church have advised against the use of any beverage containing harmful, habit-forming drugs or ingredients under the circumstances that would result in the acquiring of the habit.
This is how I was taught the principles...so to me, sodas, teas, etc. are out because I've experienced and seen people when they withdraw from caffeine and other substances in coffee/tea. I agree green tea has less of these than soda (by far!) but anything that becomes habit-forming can be a problem for health overall.

As far as MS, my readings have indicated that going to a plant-based, whole food diet (as outlined in the OTHER verses of the WoW) have been successful in overcoming the symptoms of this disease. In particular, I'd look at the video, "Forks over Knives" and read Dr. John McDougall's book, The Starch Solution, as well as Jane Birch's book (an LDS author) Discovering the Word of Wisdom.
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby braingrunt » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:42 am

Part of me says the 'why' of the word of wisdom doesn't matter. Just do it. Forget the health benefits you may be missing from wine/green tea. Those benefits are none of my business, they're God's business as soon as he told me what to do. Similarly, the "deleterious ingredients" are none of my business; apparently God has done the figuring out, which ought to be good enough; and though human wisdom may approximate or even nail the right answer, we can't rely on the arm of flesh to declare "this coffee is now safe" or "this tea is now safe" no matter what we remove from it.

It's kinda like with sexuality, modern society has decided how to make it 'safe' and built up its own doctrines about sexuality. And maybe they get some benefit from their practices. But no matter what society says or does in relation to sexuality, you trust god instead.

As the temple says "what do you think of the world's teaching, Adam"? (paraphrase) Well nothing. It doesn't say he analyzed the teaching for flaws. Adam simply said, (again a paraphrase) "I'm waiting to hear what God has to say instead."

Of course the other part of me, being addicted to discussion--as evidenced by my slow but steady presence on LDSFF--wants to study everything out and know the "why". I think this is good as long as you don't get too attached to your conclusions; and in fact, lack of desire to understand implies lack of spirit or closeness to God. If you study the reasons and begin to act on them, the original command can become a starting point for further blessings and understanding.

Well clearly the WOW is far from a complete health code or pharmacopoeia. And reasonable extrapolations of the "why" will lead to further restrictions; and some of them have been confirmed by church leadership. IMO these become legal amendments to WOW and should be part of the line we don't allow science or opinion to move; and which we hold out as expectations to those we can influence. But we can go well beyond this unmoving line, and very reasonably restrict DR Pepper or whatnot in our personal lives, possibly even encourage others to do the same. But though I may be right about Dr Pepper, and some people might be willfully darkening their minds about it (which will damning in some small way, but you know we all do this in some areas of our lives) I can't demand anyone live the "gospel according to braingrunt" or any other gospel for that matter; and we have to allow God to choose which areas of peoples lives he convicts them to work on. God very well may have no interest in getting Dr Pepper out of someones life right now, because he wants them to focus on something else instead; and for goodness sake I have to repress my desire to freak out about it.

Just share, maybe debate a little, then let it go for a while; and make sure there are continually enough positives in your interactions so that the person you debated with can not be bitter about it.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby minorityofone » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:06 am

Ask God and see what He says.

You may be surprised what the Spirit tells you. Especially with what is recorded in "official canonized scripture" (whatever that means).
I'm pretty sure it was not given by way of commandment. I think brigham young started adding to the scriptures if my recollection of history serves right so if you believe everything he said and did was correct (or any other man) than you can take their words for it, or you can go to the Source of Truth and learn for yourself. Good luck and God bless.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby davedan » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:10 am

I know not save the Lord commanded me.

You want antioxidants? Eat a piece of fruit. According to ORAC database, any piece of fruit beats tea and coffee x 10. The issue with tea and coffee may come down to what you are not eating instead.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby Desert Roses » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:40 pm

caddis wrote:
InfoWarrior82 wrote:It's really about the tanic acids in tea and coffee. I'm not sure if that's included in green tea. Herbal teas are OK... so we just have to find out if green tea is considered an herbal tea.
I hear this a lot. Source?
Herbal "teas"aren't tea at all. Tea is a particular plant; all herbal infusions have garnered the name from the longstanding practice of infusing tea leaves with hot water. Many medicinal plants are infused the same way, leading to being categorized as teas. Taken too hot, these also aren't good, but warm or cold, there's a lot of proven benefits to many plant infusions.
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby LucianAMD » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:07 am

EmmaLee wrote:Yes, green tea and black tea both have tannin. Bad stuff. Far worse than caffeine, IMO, since tannin is a natural pesticide. Herbal teas do not contain tannin. Green tea is not considered an herbal tea.
I've always heard this and until recently assumed it must be true. But as I've gotten more into herbalism I've come to find that the good majority of plants and herbs we use have tannins in them. And some to very high degrees. If tannins were the reason we do not consume tea and coffee then here are some other things you should not consume, as they have fairly decent amounts of tannins: Strawberries, blueberries, nuts, beans, and most things herbel teas are made out of. Add them to your list.
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby Matchmaker » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:25 am

I worked in the food business for a few years, and we lived by the statement, "If in doubt, throw it out." That's what I do with products that have green tea in them, in any form.

Two of the reasons I do this is because green tea comes from the same tea leaf as black tea, it's just processed differently, and because my husband asked the Stake Presidency about it during his temple recommend interview last year and was counseled to give it up.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby lgr3065 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:29 am

Teas are herbs. Not partaking of "tea"/coffee would be contrary to the herbs. As mentioned in above post, caffeine and tannin are in numerous foods (which are allowed in the WoW). Perhaps, it is really the temperature of the drink. Hot drinks can be harmful to the delicate tissues of the throat. The Church's recent PR release did not clarify the situation at all. To ban coffee/tea but to say sofa drinks (colas) are ok is contradictory at best.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:15 pm

In my view both green and black tea are contrary to our understanding of the word of wisdom.

If you want a pick me up, try peppermint tea.
Last edited by Robin Hood on Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby BrianM » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:20 pm

Joseph and Hyrum Smith both clarified that "hot drinks" in the Word of Wisdom meant tea and coffee. That's what I follow.

Herbal "tea" is fine. It's not actually "tea", we just call it that.

From personal experience I learned for myself why green/black tea is not so great. I drank some ice tea drinks for a short while and realized I had become addicted and had withdrawal headaches when not drinking it.
All my opinions are tentative pending further data...

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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Postby EmmaLee » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:21 pm

LucianAMD wrote:
EmmaLee wrote:Yes, green tea and black tea both have tannin. Bad stuff. Far worse than caffeine, IMO, since tannin is a natural pesticide. Herbal teas do not contain tannin. Green tea is not considered an herbal tea.
I've always heard this and until recently assumed it must be true. But as I've gotten more into herbalism I've come to find that the good majority of plants and herbs we use have tannins in them. And some to very high degrees. If tannins were the reason we do not consume tea and coffee then here are some other things you should not consume, as they have fairly decent amounts of tannins: Strawberries, blueberries, nuts, beans, and most things herbel teas are made out of. Add them to your list.
Dang, going back FOUR YEARS ago with that comment of mine that you quoted, Lucian. My thoughts/information/knowledge has changed on a LOT of things since 2012. Yours probably has, too.
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