The “shortage of Mormon men”

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harakim
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by harakim »

Gage wrote:
Unknown wrote: October 17th, 2017, 6:49 am A serious problem is making poor dating/marriage choices: Many make poor choices, choosing their dates/mates because of superficial things--it's surprising how many men will blindly saddle themselves with a pretty, young, immature high maintenance girl--because they were attracted to her and wanted a wife that would make their friends envious. Then, she turns out to be shallow and selfish, unprepared for the sacrifices needed to make a relationship work, making them and their mate miserable and regardless of whether the marriage survives or not--the man becomes bitter, resentful and makes the mistake of judging all women to be like their wife/exgirlfriend. Then, it's no wonder the men then can't find anyone interested in them--they have such a misogynistic attitude that comes across to women they come in contact with-- so, why would any sane woman want to take that on?

IMO, it's more attractive to remain single than have to settle for marrying a man who's problems prevent him from being a good husband and father and will make your life miserable.



Did you just blame a man for his wife's actions? Did I read this correctly? Men look for superficial things in a woman? So women are going around looking for the fat, ugly, poor guy? As young men in the church it was drilled into us that as long as we stay faithful, pay our tithing, honor our Priesthood, God would send us a beautiful, sexy, loyal wife. This is a load. Women are looking for the hot Alpha guy with the big house, and nice cars, the guy that has plenty of money to give her, if he is a faithful Priesthood holder- well ok that cant hurt anything. So what these Bishops should have been telling us was hey a few of you are gona grow up to be good looking rich men, you will have the beautiful sexy women falling at your feet, dont worry so much about how faithful you are, because you dont have to. For you other average and below average looking guys with temple recommends, good luck nothing in this life is guaranteed.
I've noticed that money and looks are nice, but they are not enough to get a girl. What girls want is social proof. The social proof women seem to seek is a display of dominance. They can display this either directly or by a disregard for something dominant. So men can either be dominated by the women or they can encourage the women in their disregard for other people or institutions such as the church. You don't have to encourage them to leave the church, but you do have to support them when they say the church's stance on gay marriage is wrong.
My theory is many LDS women are still single because they are trying to find someone who meets that criteria AND goes to church every Sunday.

brianj
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by brianj »

harakim wrote: October 21st, 2017, 7:08 am I've noticed that money and looks are nice, but they are not enough to get a girl. What girls want is social proof. The social proof women seem to seek is a display of dominance. They can display this either directly or by a disregard for something dominant. So men can either be dominated by the women or they can encourage the women in their disregard for other people or institutions such as the church. You don't have to encourage them to leave the church, but you do have to support them when they say the church's stance on gay marriage is wrong.
My theory is many LDS women are still single because they are trying to find someone who meets that criteria AND goes to church every Sunday.
I have a competing theory. There are three different phases.

First you need to get a woman's attention. Women are attracted to good looking guys, just as men are attracted to good looking women. But women are also attracted to status and resources. The more money you have, the less attractive you need to be in order to attract women. I sincerely hope that when my divorce is over, if that ever happens, I will find someone who looks beyond how luxurious of a life I can give her.

Second, you have to be the kind of person they are attracted to. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be people like me. I know a couple divorced LDS women who are actively daring, who tell me that I'm what every woman wants because I am kind, caring, respectful, and faithful. I have heard women tell me that they wish they could find a man like me, and that when my divorce is finalized I will be fighting girls off. But then I watch they. They claim that they want a nice guy, but they consistently ignore the nice guys in favor of guys who treat them like crap.

Third, you need to be faithful in the church, but for those who have beliefs contrary to eternal truth (such as the divine role of women or homosexuality) you still have to support her in her beliefs.


When I overhear a woman saying that she can't find a good guy, I am always tempted to interrupt with a sarcastic comment: "Have you checked your friend zone?"

Spaced_Out
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Spaced_Out »

When I overhear a woman saying that she can't find a good guy, I am always tempted to interrupt with a sarcastic comment: "Have you checked your friend zone?"
You are crazy, there are no unmarried active PH holders in our ward, but half the ward is made up of single sisters, The YSA gate crash other stake and even inter state activities to see if there are any guys around. You have become far to bitter and hateful and are no longer able to the forest from the tress, to focused on your micro universe.

brianj
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by brianj »

Spaced_Out wrote: October 21st, 2017, 3:11 pm You are crazy, there are no unmarried active PH holders in our ward, but half the ward is made up of single sisters, The YSA gate crash other stake and even inter state activities to see if there are any guys around. You have become far to bitter and hateful and are no longer able to the forest from the tress, to focused on your micro universe.
You are always welcome to insult me, I don't take it personally. If you honestly knew me, you would have a difficult time finding hate inside me. What you would find in abundance is hurt.

I don't know what part of the planet you live in, but in my Utah ward I know at least three eligible single men. They must be telling me they can't find a woman who is interested in them because they are far too bitter and hateful to not focus on their micro universes.
I attended another ward for a few weeks when first moved here, before I was able to rent an apartment. In that ward I met a bitter and hateful man who had been single for years. He just couldn't find a woman who would look past his lack of disposable income after paying alimony and child support.

And keep in mind that I'm not from Utah. I have spent most of my life in places where LDS people are a small minority. Do you really think I have not met lots of men, of all ages, who try to be the nice and sensitive guy women claim to want, only to be friend zoned by women who go after bad boys then complain there are no good men? Do you believe the many ads I have seen on dating websites from women who want a "generous man" who "knows how to treat a woman" those phrases mean a guy who is generous with his time and showers affirming statements on her?

I get it. You want to believe that all women are "sugar and spice and everything nice," and that any man who says different is full of bitterness and hate. But, believe it or not, there are a lot of women in the world who were told they are princesses as they were growing up, who want a man to treat them as a princess while treating him as a serf. There are many men who have lost their families because the woman they loved left in favor of someone wealthier.

Thankfully I haven't yet seen this in the church, and I sincerely hope you won't take it as further proof that I am full of bitterness and hate, but I have observed women teaching one another - even mothers teaching daughters - to evaluate a guy based on how much money he can spoil them with now and how much alimony he can pay later.


Since you don't know me, let me give you a little bit more information about me. After more than two decades with a woman who must have felt threatened by me having any self confidence, I really don't have much confidence. I sincerely hope to find a woman I find beautiful, who has an unshakable testimony, who will put Heavenly Father first and me second in her life (as I plan to put Heavenly Father first and her second in my life), who will love me instead of loving the idea of what I can give her. Who won't expect a big diamond and would be happy to be married to me even without a ring. Who values the things of eternity more than the things of God. But that kind of hope is hard to hold on to when I hear single guys telling me that very often the first thing a woman asks when he meets her for the first time is: "What kind of car do you drive," "What do you do for work," or a very direct, "How much money do you earn?"

I occasionally browse singles websites out of curiosity. I'm not looking for a date, and I'm not looking for someone I can bookmark in case she's still available when I finally am. I'm just looking to see who wants a good man who honors the priesthood, honors is temple covenants, and sincerely wants an eternal companion. Much of what I find is women who are looking for a guy who can afford them.

I hope I will find what you claim to see when (if) this divorce ends, and some people have told me that's exactly what I will find, but I'm not confident. Last summer I mentioned to a single coworker that I was planning to go to the Manti pageant on a specific Saturday. SHE WARNED ME TO NOT GO AT ALL. She told me, very bluntly, that her singles group was going that Saturday and that multiple singles groups would be there every Saturday of the show. She informed me that if I somehow just happened to end up in the same location as one of those singles groups and was discovered, I could get ostracized before I have a chance to actually participate in single adult activities.

Spaced_Out, since I am so bitter and full of hate that I can't see the forest for the trees, please explain the following:
Why single men in my ward lose romantic interests very quickly after those women find out how little disposable income the man has.
Why women so full of negativity that they would try black listing a guy for going to the same event some singles group decided to attend is a good thing.
Why so many profiles saying "I'll marry any man with a temple recommend only if he has enough money to satisfy me' supporting dozens of anecdotes about single LDS women caring more for money than a good man shouldn't suggest to me that there are many LDS women who take after nonreligious women who only find a man attractive if he has enough money.
Last edited by brianj on October 22nd, 2017, 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spaced_Out
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Spaced_Out »

brianj wrote: October 21st, 2017, 4:11 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: October 21st, 2017, 3:11 pm
You are crazy, there are no unmarried active PH holders in our ward, but half the ward is made up of single sisters, The YSA gate crash other stake and even inter state activities to see if there are any guys around. You have become far to bitter and hateful and are no longer able to the forest from the tress, to focused on your micro universe.
You are always welcome to insult me, I don't take it personally. If you honestly knew me, you would have a difficult time finding hate inside me. What you would find in abundance is hurt
[/quote]It is because you do a lot of blaming on church leadership. The GA are not at fault.

Personally if I was single again I wold stay so. I would rather go to hell and be a sevant of Satan throughout al eternity than live with a woman. I never blame others, look internally to see where I can improve. My wife in her 20ies had medical problems I have gone for years without sex, it is the purpose of life to overcome the natural man. Your wife dragged you down the rabbit hole and you followed, you gave into the blackmail. In the D&C it says we must stand above all creatures and things beneath the celestial kingdom. Marriage falls apart when you accept bad behavior and don't solve the problem.

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Sirocco
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Sirocco »

Spaced_Out wrote: October 21st, 2017, 3:11 pm
When I overhear a woman saying that she can't find a good guy, I am always tempted to interrupt with a sarcastic comment: "Have you checked your friend zone?"
You are crazy, there are no unmarried active PH holders in our ward, but half the ward is made up of single sisters, The YSA gate crash other stake and even inter state activities to see if there are any guys around. You have become far to bitter and hateful and are no longer able to the forest from the tress, to focused on your micro universe.
Man if things don't work out with that girl I am head over heals for I should start going to church lol
(I mean I don't have much faith in myself, I did pray about hoping she would return in my life, long story, and she did... got a part two to that, lets see if that one comes).
I don't pray much, not like that anyways.
God tossed me a bone lol.

Fiannan
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Fiannan »

Not wanting to make this into a polygamy thread but if you read the warnings delivered from leaders during that time period about what happens to a strict monogamous (marriage) soiety you would swear they all climbed into a time machine, visited our period, and then want back to warn the people.

gardener4life
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by gardener4life »

Maybe you could show some of the scriptures sources for that eh, Fiannan?

Fiannan
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Fiannan »

gardener4life wrote: October 22nd, 2017, 4:15 am Maybe you could show some of the scriptures sources for that eh, Fiannan?
I said I did not want to turn this into yet another polygamy thread, but there have been quotes shared in the forum from LDS leaders of the evils of monogamy and how it tears down both genetic health and moral health of a naiton or people.

JohnnyL
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by JohnnyL »

Fiannan,

Extremely proud of you--7 pages in before you brought it up!! :)

simpleton
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by simpleton »

well beings the awful subject (pm)was brought up maybe this has a little to do with the subject at hand... was sent to me today....

"Those who speak against a plurality of wives and in their feelings will not receive it will never inherit the celestial kingdom of God, for it always has been practiced there and always will be. Thousands of women will be saved there who have been trodden under the feet of men, and what will be done with them if men did not have more than one wife? Men are the lords of creation and God will hold them responsible.
--Brigham Young, September 20, 1869, Wilford Woodruff's Journal, Midvale UT: Signature Books 1984, Vol. 6, pg. 493.

Fiannan
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Fiannan »

simpleton wrote: October 22nd, 2017, 3:24 pm well beings the awful subject (pm)was brought up maybe this has a little to do with the subject at hand... was sent to me today....

"Those who speak against a plurality of wives and in their feelings will not receive it will never inherit the celestial kingdom of God, for it always has been practiced there and always will be. Thousands of women will be saved there who have been trodden under the feet of men, and what will be done with them if men did not have more than one wife? Men are the lords of creation and God will hold them responsible.
--Brigham Young, September 20, 1869, Wilford Woodruff's Journal, Midvale UT: Signature Books 1984, Vol. 6, pg. 493.
Let me anticipate the response: "He's just a dead white dude, just like all the past prophets." Oh wait, that would be if it was a SJW attending BYU.

Spaced_Out
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Spaced_Out »

simpleton wrote: October 22nd, 2017, 3:24 pm well beings the awful subject (pm)was brought up maybe this has a little to do with the subject at hand... was sent to me today....

"Those who speak against a plurality of wives and in their feelings will not receive it will never inherit the celestial kingdom of God, for it always has been practiced there and always will be. Thousands of women will be saved there who have been trodden under the feet of men, and what will be done with them if men did not have more than one wife? Men are the lords of creation and God will hold them responsible.
--Brigham Young, September 20, 1869, Wilford Woodruff's Journal, Midvale UT: Signature Books 1984, Vol. 6, pg. 493.
I have addressed the issue about lack of men in the celestial kingdom, as more woman are likely to be saved. It is a fallacy as the majority of the celestial kingdom will be made up of people who died prior to the age of accountability. More men are born than woman.
One can inherit the celestial kingdom without even been married. Polygamy is not required.

Gage
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Gage »

Second, you have to be the kind of person they are attracted to. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be people like me. I know a couple divorced LDS women who are actively daring, who tell me that I'm what every woman wants because I am kind, caring, respectful, and faithful. I have heard women tell me that they wish they could find a man like me, and that when my divorce is finalized I will be fighting girls off. But then I watch they. They claim that they want a nice guy, but they consistently ignore the nice guys in favor of guys who treat them like crap.

When I overhear a woman saying that she can't find a good guy, I am always tempted to interrupt with a sarcastic comment: "Have you checked your friend zone?"
[/quote]



Never ever believe a single woman that says you are going to have women all over you, I wish I could find a man like you, you are so nice, etc. If they believed you were that much of a catch they would catch you themselves. These are classic comments that "friend zoners" get. Its their subtle nice way of telling you "please never ask me out". It kinda gets them off the hook of having to worry about you chasing after them.

Fiannan
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Fiannan »

I have addressed the issue about lack of men in the celestial kingdom, as more woman are likely to be saved. It is a fallacy as the majority of the celestial kingdom will be made up of people who died prior to the age of accountability. More men are born than woman.
One can inherit the celestial kingdom without even been married. Polygamy is not required.
How do you know the sex ratio prior to Noah's flood? If Jesus was indicating the return as when the days were as in Noah's day then we can safely assume that in the future we will employ techniques that favor more girl babies than boys - which were probably employed in those days when, again we can assume, women controlled religion and probably the highest levels of power. And as someone said here the population at the time of the flood was possibly nearly 5 billion people.
Look, the rule of the barnyard is that you only need one healthy man to maintain the breeding of a dozen females. Males seem not to be doing so well in adapting to the new technological/information age. Also, when you have a girl baby you have a much greater chance of having grandkids because even if she never marries she can still have children. So within a generation I predict that bio-tech will be used to create a much greater number of women than men.

Spaced_Out
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Spaced_Out »

Fiannan wrote: October 23rd, 2017, 7:05 am
I have addressed the issue about lack of men in the celestial kingdom, as more woman are likely to be saved. It is a fallacy as the majority of the celestial kingdom will be made up of people who died prior to the age of accountability. More men are born than woman.
One can inherit the celestial kingdom without even been married. Polygamy is not required.
How do you know the sex ratio prior to Noah's flood? If Jesus was indicating the return as when the days were as in Noah's day then we can safely assume that in the future we will employ techniques that favor more girl babies than boys - which were probably employed in those days when, again we can assume, women controlled religion and probably the highest levels of power. And as someone said here the population at the time of the flood was possibly nearly 5 billion people.
Look, the rule of the barnyard is that you only need one healthy man to maintain the breeding of a dozen females. Males seem not to be doing so well in adapting to the new technological/information age. Also, when you have a girl baby you have a much greater chance of having grandkids because even if she never marries she can still have children. So within a generation I predict that bio-tech will be used to create a much greater number of women than men.
In China and India they abort female babies for males, that has been the case in developing countries since the beginning every one wants a male. 5 billion people prior to Noah - rubbish the food technology etc was not no the earth, many parts of the earth like the US were not inhabited. It is really stupid. If they had such technology then Noah would not be on top of a hill making a wooden boat and many of the people would of been able to survive the flood.
Human genetics have not changed - ratio of male to female children bourn is the same is all cultures, and on earth today we have a greater genetic diversity of people than ever before.....

brianj
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by brianj »

Gage wrote: October 23rd, 2017, 6:57 am Never ever believe a single woman that says you are going to have women all over you, I wish I could find a man like you, you are so nice, etc. If they believed you were that much of a catch they would catch you themselves. These are classic comments that "friend zoners" get. Its their subtle nice way of telling you "please never ask me out". It kinda gets them off the hook of having to worry about you chasing after them.
I've already figured this out. I would give almost anything to date then marry one of the women who said that, but I don't believe it will ever happen.

These two women seem to genuinely want to set me up with friends, but I'm going to have a hard time not believing that those women have any real interest in me and aren't just being nice and showing interest to try giving this guy their friend knows some confidence.

Fiannan
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Fiannan »

In China and India they abort female babies for males, that has been the case in developing countries since the beginning every one wants a male.
China outlawed sex-selection aborion quite some time ago. Now there is a growing trend for couples to want girl babies. In a technological world a girl is not only equal to a man, but in many ways better suited for it. We see it in universities from Tehran to Toronto, more female graduates. Males have a harder time with the self-discipline to focus as opposed to females. That is why futurists say that in a couple of generations most people will be female and females will form polyamorous family structures.
5 billion people prior to Noah - rubbish the food technology etc was not no the earth, many parts of the earth like the US were not inhabited. It is really stupid. If they had such technology then Noah would not be on top of a hill making a wooden boat and many of the people would of been able to survive the flood.
You realize how stupid it is to believe that a Stone-Age man dressed as an Arab nomad could build a massive boat as desribed in the Bible without technology? You try to build a rowboat WITH today's tools. Now imagine building something akin to a modern oil tanker with technology akin to the Plains Indians.

I am not sure the 5 billion figure, someone noted it here in the forums. I once saw a documentary where a Hebrew historian said the population of Noah's civilization was somewhere around 100 million. A lot was going on in those days. For instance, who were the giants trying to assasinate Noah? And if they were giants how did he protect himself, with a wooden spear? Rubbish. Also, why do extre-Biblical texts describe a society that was able to alter DNA?

Remember, there was once an expert who said that when the world reached the level of Noah's day then Jesus returns. He is not here yet.
Human genetics have not changed - ratio of male to female children bourn is the same is all cultures, and on earth today we have a greater genetic diversity of people than ever before.....
Strange how you would have such a genetic diversity if all people died but Noah and seven other people. Of course there were many survivors in more primitive areas of the world.

Spaced_Out
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Spaced_Out »

Fiannan wrote: October 23rd, 2017, 10:36 pm
In China and India they abort female babies for males, that has been the case in developing countries since the beginning every one wants a male.
China outlawed sex-selection aborion quite some time ago. Now there is a growing trend for couples to want girl babies. In a technological world a girl is not only equal to a man, but in many ways better suited for it. We see it in universities from Tehran to Toronto, more female graduates. Males have a harder time with the self-discipline to focus as opposed to females. That is why futurists say that in a couple of generations most people will be female and females will form polyamorous family structures.
5 billion people prior to Noah - rubbish the food technology etc was not no the earth, many parts of the earth like the US were not inhabited. It is really stupid. If they had such technology then Noah would not be on top of a hill making a wooden boat and many of the people would of been able to survive the flood.
You realize how stupid it is to believe that a Stone-Age man dressed as an Arab nomad could build a massive boat as desribed in the Bible without technology? You try to build a rowboat WITH today's tools. Now imagine building something akin to a modern oil tanker with technology akin to the Plains Indians.

I am not sure the 5 billion figure, someone noted it here in the forums. I once saw a documentary where a Hebrew historian said the population of Noah's civilization was somewhere around 100 million. A lot was going on in those days. For instance, who were the giants trying to assasinate Noah? And if they were giants how did he protect himself, with a wooden spear? Rubbish. Also, why do extre-Biblical texts describe a society that was able to alter DNA?

Remember, there was once an expert who said that when the world reached the level of Noah's day then Jesus returns. He is not here yet.
Human genetics have not changed - ratio of male to female children bourn is the same is all cultures, and on earth today we have a greater genetic diversity of people than ever before.....
Strange how you would have such a genetic diversity if all people died but Noah and seven other people. Of course there were many survivors in more primitive areas of the world.
A total denial of all fact and fake sudo history. Right throughout civilisation people focused on male heirs a woman who had no male children got her head chopped off. It is only modern political correctness that preaches such things. In Africa and PNG and other developing countries their livestock have more value than the woman. Why did China have to implement laws to prevent female abortions because it is a major issue and they have massive gender disparity.

The scriptures are very clear every livening thing that had breath of life died during the flood except those on the ark.
Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

During Noah’s time the earth was completely covered with water. This was the baptism of the earth and symbolized a cleansing (1 Pet. 3:20–21).

God will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh, Gen. 6:17 (Moses 7:34, 43, 50–52; 8:17, 30).
Noah flood was 2,350BC that is only like 1,000y since Adam it has now been over 4,370y since the flood - that is why there is much greater genetic diversity on the earth today, simple logic...The world starts with two people with no technology and ends up at 5 billion people in 1,000 years it is a mathematical improbability. There is no archaeological evidence of it and it is not scriptural.

How did Nephi build a boat with zero tools - he went to a mountain found some iron ore - melted it and made tools then built a ship..
Stories of giant hunting Noah is a fairy tail - watching a Disney movie will get you more truth..

Fiannan
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Fiannan »

Stories of giant hunting Noah is a fairy tail - watching a Disney movie will get you more truth..

Really?
For one hundred twenty years Noah tried to convince the people to repent. At that time many men who lived on the earth were so tall and powerful that they were called giants. They and others tried to kill Noah, but the Lord was with him and protected him.
https://www.lds.org/friend/1994/06/noah?lang=eng

Fiannan
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Fiannan »

A total denial of all fact and fake sudo history. Right throughout civilisation people focused on male heirs a woman who had no male children got her head chopped off. It is only modern political correctness that preaches such things. In Africa and PNG and other developing countries their livestock have more value than the woman. Why did China have to implement laws to prevent female abortions because it is a major issue and they have massive gender disparity.
You do realize that most Middle Eastern Pagan traditions were female-oriented in their religions, right? The status of women varied according to culture. If you are praying to a goddess I think you will have a somewhat more positive view of women. Look at the booming occult today - many women are leaving traditional religions and going for Paganism. There is a reason and I believe this will become very common as time goes on. I have no reason to believe that women did not rule over the antediluvian world. They were the ones who were lining up to get impregnated by the "Sons of God" so this sort of implies their husbands did not have much say over their sex or sexuality.
The scriptures are very clear every livening thing that had breath of life died during the flood except those on the ark.
I used to think that too until I took institute classes and learned otherwise.

Noah flood was 2,350BC that is only like 1,000y since Adam it has now been over 4,370y since the flood - that is why there is much greater genetic diversity on the earth today, simple logic...The world starts with two people with no technology and ends up at 5 billion people in 1,000 years it is a mathematical improbability. There is no archaeological evidence of it and it is not scriptural.
So you claim, I think you are wrong but let's play with it, that the Flood was 1000 years after Adam. So then there were people alive when it occured that remembered Adam, right? I mean people in that era lived to be 1000 years old. Now considering that you believe that in less than 4 1/2 thousand years we have reached nearly 8 billion people when lifespans are only less than 100, what about a population of near-immortals who were having kids left and right, even with either aliens or exalted beings? I think you could get a big population when women who were 700 years old could greet their husbands with the news that she was pregnant.
On top of that we see that this civilization was at least in an iron age (Genesis 4:22) which totally would contradict modern archeology. Seeing this fact alone suggests that they had entered an industrial age -- and if you accept the Book of Jasher they had the capability of genetic engineering.

Spaced_Out
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Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Spaced_Out »

Fiannan wrote: October 24th, 2017, 8:09 am
A total denial of all fact and fake sudo history. Right throughout civilisation people focused on male heirs a woman who had no male children got her head chopped off. It is only modern political correctness that preaches such things. In Africa and PNG and other developing countries their livestock have more value than the woman. Why did China have to implement laws to prevent female abortions because it is a major issue and they have massive gender disparity.
You do realize that most Middle Eastern Pagan traditions were female-oriented in their religions, right? The status of women varied according to culture. If you are praying to a goddess I think you will have a somewhat more positive view of women. Look at the booming occult today - many women are leaving traditional religions and going for Paganism. There is a reason and I believe this will become very common as time goes on. I have no reason to believe that women did not rule over the antediluvian world. They were the ones who were lining up to get impregnated by the "Sons of God" so this sort of implies their husbands did not have much say over their sex or sexuality.
Woman have never had any status in any civilisation. Be it the Jews/racialists, he Egyptians, the Americas, Africa, Polynesians Mongolians, Chinese, Russian, europeans, greeks etc... etc.... etc... The middle east like the roman used woman as sex slaves in their temples if you call that a woman orientated religion!!. They used to raid the European nations for female sex slaves.
There is no documented evidence of any civilisation ruled by woman, there might be a few queens here an there but the house holds, military and status of woman were always second class.
The so called pagan religions in the Middle east where woman were reported to be able to rise to dominance were very minor sects and by no means a dominant region. Basing your teachings on a very minor sect in a very minor population of the world is king of silly...In those days teh M.East was dominated by Africa

Spaced_Out
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Spaced_Out »

Fiannan wrote: October 24th, 2017, 8:09 am So you claim, I think you are wrong but let's play with it, that the Flood was 1000 years after Adam. So then there were people alive when it occured that remembered Adam, right? I mean people in that era lived to be 1000 years old. Now considering that you believe that in less than 4 1/2 thousand years we have reached nearly 8 billion people when lifespans are only less than 100, what about a population of near-immortals who were having kids left and right, even with either aliens or exalted beings? I think you could get a big population when women who were 700 years old could greet their husbands with the news that she was pregnant.
On top of that we see that this civilization was at least in an iron age (Genesis 4:22) which totally would contradict modern archeology. Seeing this fact alone suggests that they had entered an industrial age -- and if you accept the Book of Jasher they had the capability of genetic engineering.
Modern archaeology does not accept the biblical flood and puts humans much further back in time.

A few of the early patriarchs did live to be very many years old, but that does not say they had children at those advanced ages.
When Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden of Eden Eve's curse was pain in child bearing which includes all the things that go with it including menstrual cycles. Woman are born with all their eggs in place and when they run out they go through menopause. Additional eggs are never produced after birth. How is a 700y old woman still going to have eggs and be fertile. Again the bible only talks of a few male patriarch reaching very advanced ages.

This kind of politically correct type of pseudo insanity, thinking has no biblical or scientific probability.

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by Fiannan »

Modern archaeology does not accept the biblical flood and puts humans much further back in time.
Wait, you argue basing your premise on the Bible being 100% literal and then say it is wrong?
A few of the early patriarchs did live to be very many years old, but that does not say they had children at those advanced ages.
When Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden of Eden Eve's curse was pain in child bearing which includes all the things that go with it including menstrual cycles. Woman are born with all their eggs in place and when they run out they go through menopause. Additional eggs are never produced after birth. How is a 700y old woman still going to have eggs and be fertile. Again the bible only talks of a few male patriarch reaching very advanced ages.
Where do you get your information on human biology of that period? If the DNA was either super-advanced, or medically manipulated, why then assume certain biological features you see today were true then? So did Noah live 900 years or not? Did he reach his 70s and remain an old man for 800 years? Come on now. As for fertility a woman has 200,000+ eggs she is born with. If a woman were to live 900 years (obviously her body is different than women today) then we can assume she could continue having children even when centuries old. Lastly, where is there any evidence only special patriarchs lived for centuries?
This kind of politically correct type of pseudo insanity, thinking has no biblical or scientific probability.
Whatever, you said it was fantasy that giants tried to assasinate Noah and yet I provided an official LDS source to show it happened.

gardener4life
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1690

Re: The “shortage of Mormon men”

Post by gardener4life »

Here's an interesting point.

If you think about the ARK construction, it wouldn't be possible to build the ARK without VERY strong supports because of its weight and size. A lot of science people have pointed out that the only way for this to have occurred is if there was metalwork in the supports, or anchoring those supports together etc, and design work for holding the framework together and so on. This is entirely reasonable. The larger the boat, the stronger the hull and supports would have to be. It's also interesting too that western civilizations couldn't build ships the size of the ARK until recently...within the last hundred years.

Think....the ARK would have been immensely HEAVY! Even without the animals it would have been heavy! (And also there are references that Egyptian cubits did have a realistic more exact measurement now. People had missed this in the past thinking that people of the middle east cubit was an unknown figure...but Egyptian cubit was different. So it's very possible that people meant Egyptian cubits of a fixed length but didn't want to say Egyptian because they thought the Egyptians were sinners and whatever other rivalries they had.)

Hmm that's interesting to think about. You can't build really big ships without a whole plethora of smaller technologies that we take for granted.

This very reasonably suggests that the days of the antediluvian civilizations (there was more than one, they weren't together...Enoch was hunted by the Canaanites etc.) had very good technologies even comparable to our day.

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