The Freeman Institute? Was anyone here part of it?

[creator]

I've heard some stories regarding The Freeman Institute and it's "demise". Was anyone here involved in the Freemen Institute when W. Cleon Skousen shut it down? Anyone have any insights on that?

[Darren]

Bruce went over this with me several times. So I asked him to tell me again. The linked MP3 file is his first-hand account of the demise of the Freeman Institute.

http://72.35.183.153/wit/wydner_on_demi ... titute.mp3

11 minutes long.

God Bless,
Darren

[Darren]

I made a transcript of the conversation I had with Bruce about the demise of the Freeman Institute and I added some details in parenthesis.

Basically, the World Mafia ordered the theft and demise of the good things going on in Utah Valley, and they got their lackey business leaders and politicians to do their bidding in ripping off the Mormon Community of the good things being produced in Utah Valley, and pull the legs out from under the fledgling Freeman Movement.

That fiasco really set back the LDS people from the vision that President David O. McKay had for them to lean to work together by the Law.

Here is the transcript for:
http://72.35.183.153/wit/wydner_on_demi ... titute.mp3

Darren: I would appreciate it if you could just go through, what you remember, was the demise of the Freeman Institute.

Bruce: There was this idiot. I met him once. His name was Harmer. Kind of appropriate, that was his name.

When Governor Ronald Reagan of California appointed this Harmer as his Secretary of State there in California. He became kind of a hero with LDS people because he was LDS. Although he was prepared to do any dirty thing for any dirty people.

The thing is, there is no way that… I mean President Kimball was such a devotee of doing everything precisely right for the US Government, and that he guarded the Eyring Research Institute so carefully, until he passed on, in 1985. And the Eyring Research Institute, they were making about 2 million dollars a year from the Air Force until they stole my program and immediately they jumped up to 8 million the first year they stole it from me, that was 1979. And then went up to 18 million (per year) by 1985 (1980 – 1985).

So Harmer needed to be introduced to Carlyle Harmon who ran the Eyring Research Institute. He was the Chairman and the Founder and everything like that. And Carlyle belonged to the Freeman Institute. So this idiot Harmer, he came in and he said to Cleon, “We’re going to do these great things” and so Cleon made him his partner in running the Freeman Institute.

Then what Harmer did, among other things is, he just was watching for the optimum moment there. After President Kimball died, he was watching for the moment to come in and secretly buy up the majority interest from the people who had assisted Carlyle to make Eyring Research work. And then he took that away, and so, when it did the actual Star Wars… final stuff before President Reagan went and told this to Gorbachev those last three years.

I mean, it (the Eyring Research Institute contract with the Air Force) had gone from $8,000,000 (for the year 1979, from $2,000,000 per year before that) to $18,000,000 (for each year 1980 - 1985). They made over $96,000,000 after they stole it (my program) from me. They made a couple of million a year before that (taking my program) but then they made in those six years or so, they made $96,000,000.

And that is what Ray Noorda, when he put in that $100,000,000 cash (from the sell of $100,000,000 in Novel stock given to Angel Partners, Inc.) that was kind of to pay back that (the illicit beginnings of Novel).

So anyway then, I met this idiot Harmer over at a Cleon Skousen, Freeman Institute thing, where he was now the partner of Cleon in running all of this. I mean, that how he was introduced to Carlyle, through the Freeman Institute. And I met him there, and I said, “I hear that you bought out Eyring Research” and he said, “Well, I own it but I don’t control it.” I thought, “what a maniac.”

And then, the next thing I knew is that he (Harmer) had destroyed the Freeman Institute. They needed to make it into the National Center for Constitutional Studies instead. Because Freemen, like the American Freemen of New England, before the First Amendment, and in London to this day, the way that it worked together by the Law there.

People couldn’t understand that anymore so they made it the National Center for Constitutional Studies, and they moved everything up to this steel building right next to Zeldon Nielson’s house on his ranch there in Juniper, Idaho.

Then Zeldon just turned it into a book store. And kept selling it (the materials). That’s the way it survived. And then Zeldon, he still just runs that book store. But Marvin (Marvin Hall) was the one who talked him into meeting Cleon in the first place. And he’s kind of the broader thinker of the two.

Darren: So basically Harmer went in there and…

Bruce: Harmer destroyed, after he did the Eyring Research Institute, then he did a few things that just destroyed the Freeman Institute.

Darren: Because he wanted it to be operated by…

Bruce: He was doing what the Mafia told him to do.

Darren: I see, so he was being told that the…

Bruce: Yea, wreck that stupid Mormon thing. And the way it was able to survive was going up to Juniper, Idaho.

Darren: But when I talked to Zeldon, it seems that the Freeman part of it kind of got dropped off.

Bruce: Yea, see the point of it is, is that Americans, they don’t understand that we’re supposed to continue in the Lord’s goodness. That is what the 86th Section says, of our fathers. That were hid from the world with Christ in God in the London Commonwealth and they were the Freemen of that Commonwealth to this day.

They run the finances of the world, those 500,000 London Freemen who run the world bond market the London Bond Market there.

But, over in New England its an insult in Massachusetts to call it a State, like the Southerners wanted. They still call it the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

And all of my forefathers who lived there in Massachusetts they tried to become American Freemen, down until the First Amendment said, you don’t know how to do that, and they had to admit that they didn’t. But Heavenly Father wanted us to keep doing it.

So, Cleon, to show us how to work together by the Law, he made the Freeman Institute. But after Harmer smacked it in the face, the only thing that people could understand was the Constitution.

Darren: So what he was trying to do, is he was trying to turn it into the…

Bruce: He was so stupid, he was just doing what the Mafia told him to do.

Darren: Ok, because I was reading in Carlyle Harmon’s book and he specifically said in there that Harmer went in there and bought 53% of the shares for Eyring, and basically kicked everyone out, and shut Eyring down.

Bruce: And all of that good stuff was taken away. I mean they were up to $18,000,000 (from the Air Force per year) and those last three years doing that for the Defense Department they probably made $100,000,000.

Darren: So basically, my observation is, is that the Freeman Institute was disrupted in its purpose.

Bruce: Teaching our people how to work together by the Law. It had to drop back one and just talk about the Constitution.

And see, even the word Constitution… We can’t mention this to anybody that’s associated with the National Center for Constitutional Studies.

But, the word Constitution is a filthy, stupid, rotten thing. Because what the Pope does, is when he becomes pope then he has a little squeeze gun made. And on that squeeze gun, it is just like Constantine put on the coins that he was the God of the Roman Empire, under his face on the heads side of the coins.

But the Pope he puts his face on one side, and then he puts the face of that dead body down underneath Saint Peter’s Cathedral that they lie and say its Peter’s body. And then they have another face that is Paul’s face, and that is both sides. And what he (the Pope) does is he will write on a piece of paper, he will say to some Catholic Monk some place, “I hereby constitute you an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ. You are going to be one of our Cardinals, and you are an Apostle. And our Quorum of Apostles is 380 Apostles. And I constitute you an Apostle.”

And then what he does is he punches a little hole in the bottom of the paper, and he puts a ribbon through it. And the two ends of that ribbon are hanging down. And then he takes something like a little lead weight, on a fishing line. Then he puts it up part way on those two dangling pieces of ribbon, then he takes his squeeze gun and he squeezes it onto there. And on one side it is like a little lead coin. But by him squeezing, this is the way that he seals on earth and seals in heaven.

And when he says, “I constitute you an Apostle” that is where the word Constitution comes from, from the filthy, rotten, stinking Baba Ali.

Darren: So instead of a Constitution we call it our Charter. That’s basically what the Constitution is, is a Charter.

Bruce: Yea, basically, the articles of a constitution, they are just… My 10th great grandfather (the Rev. Thomas Hooker, in 1629) invented the idea of written constitutions and basically what it is, is the articles of apprenticeship of a young man, saying what his Major Definite Purpose is, so that he can get into the temple and take his oath to accomplish that, and that oath makes him a Freeman to join one of the 25 gilds of London, a Freeman. We imitated that when we set up New England, to make everybody New England Freemen.

Darren: So basically, it just becomes the charter for a group of people to do the same thing?

Bruce: Yea, basically what it is, it’s just the Law that everybody agrees to. That’s what it is. It is the Law in print, that’s everybody’s understanding of how we’re doing things.

Darren: Yea, because we certainly don’t want the National Center for Constitutional Studies to think that we have come up with some negative about constitutions.

Bruce: No, so we can’t mention how the word constitution is a Roman Catholic word.

Darren: Yea, because that will distract from the real reason why the Constitution actually is this, what I’ll call charter that puts this Law Institution in effect, to help everyone to do their very best in that organization.

Bruce: Yep.

Darren: OK.

Bruce: OK. Good for you.

[ldsff]

Thanks Darren for all the light you shine.

[Darren]

I had another phone conversation today with Boyde Taggard, adopted son of Carlyle Harmon, and a former member of the Freeman Institute. He said, "John Harmer torpedoed the Freeman Institute." I asked him if Harmer was working for the Mafia when he destroyed the Eyring Research Institute and the Freeman Institute. He said that he wouldn't be surprised.

So now I have two accounts that point to the same reason for the demise of the Freeman Institute..

To me the Powers That Be wanted, among many things, to have the Freeman Institute shut down.

Which doesn't surprise me, as I also have a book from the London Translators Organization, wherein they are in writing conspiring to come to Utah and remove the innovative technology from those hick Mormons. Which they did so, in the mid 1990 and presumably continue to do so.

My question is, what would have happened if the Freeman Institute had been allowed to continue to teach our people to work together by the Law of their Ancestors?

Did LDS business and political leaders of the mid 1980s in Utah miss an opportunity to make a difference in Utah and for our people?

Remind me again, what is the cleansing for that "in the midst of My house shall it begin"?

God Bless,
Darren

[creator]

Thank you for your comments on "the demise of the Freemen Institute".

This brings up another question. Many of us feel the need to do something about this awful situation America and the world is in... to do something about the loss of Freedoms... How do we avoid the same demise of the Freemen Institute and other groups?

[Darren]

The work of the Freeman Institute spawned the Township Movement. The Township Movement was also a flop.

Fundamentally the Freeman Institute was inspired, and a directive from President David O. McKay to Cleon Skousen.

I say we pick up the where Cleon Skousen left off, are we not Cleon Skousen's Children in principle, and revitalize the Freeman Institute. We have the internet now with better resources then Cleon Skousen had.

We must also learn from the past, and realize the an evil combination is amoungst us, and be watchful for the dishonesty and greed that contributed originally to the demise of the Freeman Institute.

I have learned so much in recent years, I could easily rehearse the tenants of being a Freeman and the culture of the Freemen. It is the application of Anglo/Saxon law the we need to work on now.

Remember, good displaces evil. So the plan must be to promote goodness, thereby pushing out the awful situation in America and in the world.

I personally believe that the Internet has brought to us from the hands of the lost tribes of Israel, across the bounds of time and space, the words of the prophets of the lost tribes of Israel. And they lay before my eyes daily.

I also believe that God planned for this Internet to do so, and for us to lay hold of these good things from our Anglo/Saxon/Germanic lost tribes of Israel ancestors and be good stewards with this.

Yes it is time to revive the Freeman Institute. But I can't do it alone. It is a work for the strongest and smartest among us. The question is, is it too late?

Ready and Willing,
Darren

[creator]

I say we pick up the where Cleon Skousen left off...We have the internet now with better resources then Cleon Skousen had... Yes it is time to revive the Freeman Institute. But I can't do it alone.

In your mind, What would this revived Freemen Institute look like in real life? (not what it teaches, but how it operates and teaches, etc) What would be the structure and activity of such an organization?

[Jnewby]

I attended several Freeman classes when I was about 20-21 years old, I recall they had several pieces of material and books from which they studied and taught - I would suspect that if one could get their hands on that, that would be a great starting point.

[WYp8riot]

Cleon Skousen discusses in the Audio series, THE MIRACLE OF AMERICA, that the Freemen Institute was renamed to NCCS because of the actions and bad name that some of the Montana Freemen gave to the organization. They were making their own checks and buying goods and people were victims of the fruad etc.

I don't know how that fits into what Bruce Wydner has to say.

-Paul

[lundbaek]

From a former long term employee of the Freeman Institute and the NCCS: "I think the Elders shut it down by going to sleep."

[Darren]

I attended several Freeman classes when I was about 20-21 years old, I recall they had several pieces of material and books from which they studied and taught - I would suspect that if one could get their hands on that, that would be a great starting point.

I have been trying this weekend to call and talk to Marvin Hall, his wife has medical issues so I suspect that is why I am getting his answering machine, Marvin was instrumental in helping Cleon Skousen move the materials from the Freeman Institute to Zeldon Nelson's ranch, where the NCCS is now headquartered. And I may also talk to Zeldon. And I will get to the bottom of where the original Freeman Books may be stored.

Cleon Skousen discusses in the Audio series, THE MIRACLE OF AMERICA, that the Freemen Institute was renamed to NCCS because of the actions and bad name that some of the Montana Freemen gave to the organization. They were making their own checks and buying goods and people were victims of the fruad etc.

I don't know how that fits into what Bruce Wydner has to say.

-Paul

Yes Paul, the Montana Freemen were a big one, an apostate Freeman Institute related group. The Montana Freemen were an effect of the Township Movement. The Township Movement was promoted by a man named Walter P. Mann III. Based on the materials Bruce was producing for Cleon Skousen. Walter went around the country and was promoting his version of how we all could rediscover our Ancestry through a return to Township Organizations. Walter spent time in Jail as a ringleader for the Tax Protest Movement, and many of the folks who got into the Township Movement, turned it into a method to fight the IRS, by starting bogus liens on IRS officials. Then when the IRS fired back, they would claim autonomy of jurisdiction from their private townships. The whole thing back fired, but not until it spawned these little groups of radical patriots.

Bruce’s materials among many things, shows the basis of the IRS Tax to be based on the Tithing and Fast Offerings of the Original Church. And therefore off limits to the Government. If we are just smart enough to operate our society via the Original Church Institutions, something they did for over 200 years in Puritan New England, then we tell the IRS and lackey Politician to go jump in the lake.

Big stuff here.

From a former long term employee of the Freeman Institute and the NCCS: "I think the Elders shut it down by going to sleep."

The same pervasive problem to overcome if the Freeman Institute were to try to revitalize. The sleeping Elders. I agree lundbaek.

I say we pick up the where Cleon Skousen left off...We have the internet now with better resources then Cleon Skousen had... Yes it is time to revive the Freeman Institute. But I can't do it alone.

In your mind, What would this revived Freemen Institute look like in real life? (not what it teaches, but how it operates and teaches, etc) What would be the structure and activity of such an organization?

Brian, I am sure you remember when I met with your group at the Salt Lake Community College in 2006. And you remember how I handed out CD disks of Bruce’s books, and took any available opportunity to talk about them. Something I am still willing to do. But I was received by doubting folks. It is a big stretch to get back and study the information that Thomas Jefferson made the effort to learn Anglo/Saxon so that he could study. The Elders generally are not ready, because of their bias obtained from their youth from Greco/Roman learning and deductive reasoning techniques taught at school.

But we do have an Inductive tool available that just may make up for this lack of readiness by the Elders. We have the Internet tool. If Cleon Skousen would have had the Internet, and all of it’s resources, I don’t think we would have lost the Freeman Institute and the perspective being developed there.

What I think would be a great kick off for the NEW FREEMAN INSTITUTE would be to have a dedicated web Site/Forum perhaps part of Latterday Conservative. Make a clear purpose statement, something I can help with, and begin by allowing interested persons to add their perspective interest there on that site/forum.

And put on that Site/Forum tools to learn and develop as Freemen. And share in that Culture of Freemen over the Internet.

There are already several interested parties on this forum, and it will most likely grow if we give it the tools to do so.

Keep in mind, being a Freeman is a culture you bring home, and incorporate in all aspects of your life. So there will certainly develop a culture and related connections, meetings, and lectures.

I am willing to give to this effort.

It is worth it to do this.

Anyone else ready to do this?


Now I want to insert something Bruce sent me about a month ago, he has specific insights. And I think it is worth a read. I did however cut out a few specifics that are best not shared, as they are some strategies to defeat the Antichrist. But as you are aware, I error on giving details when needed, and prefer to share with everyone as soon as possible. But his words next will give you an idea of how deep this has been thought out.

God Bless,
Darren

THE STRATEGY


Dear Darren,

As I have commented so many times, in the Military Intelligence segment of the Military, where I did my service and where I worked, the ancient word, “Strategy” means, “The Plan to win a War.” Both Sides have a Strategy, but it is THE STRATEGY THAT “WINS” that is, “The Story.”

…as you witnessed, the last time that you and I met with W. Cleon Skousen, about the biggest circumstance that could happen to a person like me was when I first met Brother Skousen, on the BYU Campus, in the Summer of 1973. Because of the way that D&C 86 speaks of how the Saints were told: “blessed are ye if ye continue in my goodness,” since, the Lord spoke to them as: “you, with whom the priesthood hath continued through the lineage of your fathers,” “For ye are lawful heirs, according to the flesh, and have been hid from the world with Christ in God,” the way that “Law” originated in the Scandinavian part of Europe where I was on my Mission, and because that Law was centered on that same Doctrine of the Lord’s Law as that is addressed in the Book of Mormon, and I had tried to get my PhD as a College Teacher of Military History, as told in all of the European Languages which I knew, I had written the First Part of the 1,000-page Course, at Hugh Nibley’s urging, to show how it is that the Lord’s People “continue” in that “essence” of Law as it is presented in the Book of Mormon.

However, what Cleon then said to me has dominated so much, since then.

Again, after I mentioned some of what I had written at Brother Nibley’s urging, Cleon told me of his assignment from President McKay.

President McKay told him, “Brother Skousen, Our People are becoming slaves. They are falling for the same old lures and tricks that all of the rest of the world is. I want you to go down to Provo and work on how Our People can WORK TOGETHER BY THE LAW.” When Cleon asked, “Can’t the University do it?” he told me President McKay, in sadness, said, “No, they don’t have the vision.” Then, when Cleon asked, “But, what can I do?” he said, “HE (President McKay) PROPHESIED TO ME, ‘YOU GO DOWN THERE, AND THE WAY WILL OPEN UP!” Then, when Cleon said to me, about the research that I had done, in so many of the Languages of Europe, “YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THIS IS IT!” you can imagine the effect that that had upon a young man, for whom President McKay had been his Prophet for most of his life, that President McKay HAD PROPHESIED that the work that was a part of my Major Definite Purpose in Life was that which “WILL OPEN UP” “THE WAY” so that Our People can be able to “continue” to WORK TOGETHER BY THE LAW!

So, in his last years President McKay made Two Prophecies that we are involved with. He prophesied, after the US Government gave up on its ability to do the Technology that would make it possible so that Church Members will provide for the World the Services, that will let all of Mankind … communicate with each other ... This “Completion” of the Services of the Internet makes this the Biggest Operation in the World.

[And, then, it was my Textbook’s Explanation of the Language Technology of the Nephites that produced the First Part of that, the Internet and so much of the World’s current Software Industry.] For the Latter-day Saints to be able to serve the entire Human Family in this (trying to find the appropriate word) “complete” way, of course we are going to have to be VERY EXPERT, in relation to what the Leaders of the World know about “the Rules” which Human Society HAS TO OPERATE BY, “THE LAW.” President McKay “prophesied” to Cleon that, “The Way Will Open Up” for “Our People” to do that. And, as you can appreciate from your and my last meeting with Cleon, Cleon had been convinced, throughout the previous near 1/3 of a Century that we worked together, that the procedures that are in our 1,000-page Course ARE THOSE PROCEDURES THAT PRESIDENT MCKAY PROPHESIED WOULD “OPEN UP” SO THAT “OUR PEOPLE” WILL BE ABLE TO “WORK TOGETHER BY THE LAW!

So, now, to our Strategy, our Plan to let this happen.

I may have told you how it was that I requested of all of those who wanted to work on my development of … Cost-effective Machine Translation Software, that the way that they would be allowed to do that was for them to become associated with this work in the way that the Church had tried to “continue in” the Lord’s “goodness,” the Church’s United Order, that was a “continuation” of their English-speaking Forefathers’ Guild System. It seemed that all of them, including my youngest Brother (who had come up with the loans to me to finance the work that we did, first on the Big Computer of the BYU Machine Translation Project and then with the Computers that we rented, and the one that we bought at the Eyring Research Institute, ERI), accepted that requirement and said that they would conduct themselves accordingly.

However, as soon as my Invention was heralded in the Wall Street Journal … and as the beginning of what ERI had been hired by the Government to do ─ they were to develop from Human Language Technology (when it would be discovered) the Intelligent Systems Technology that would be the beginning of the Internet ─ that Invention of mine that the US Defense Department named, “Human Language Technology,” seemed that it was such an instant victim from such seemingly always present influences, such as so many types of Thievery, that began to dominate so much of everything.

“SO, HOW IS IT THAT WE CAN DO WE DO IT RIGHT, THIS TIME?”

We were commanded to “continue in” the Lord’s “goodness,” and our Church Leaders directed us in how to do that until it was time for Utah to become a State; and Federal Government Politicians prohibited our Church Leaders from continuing to promote this “United Order,” that was a “continuation” of “their Forefathers’ Guild System’s way of Working Together By The Law.”

“So, what do we do now?” “How are we going to obey the Lord’s words to us, to continue in His goodness, as our Forefathers did, and Work Together By The Law, as those “Puritan” Forefathers of the First Leaders of the Restored Church tried to do that as they invented “the World’s First Written Constitution,” to work together by, (copied today by every Government in the World but 6 of them) and who said, in their Second Edition of that, “The Articles of Confederation and Perpetual League of the United Colonies of New England” that they had all come to America, “With one and the same end and aim, to advance the Kingdom of Our Lord, Jesus Christ and to enjoy THE LIBERTIES OF THE GOSPEL IN PURITY!” (for which such a holy saying, their Enemies tried to deride them, with their “cooked-up” name for them of, “the Puritans”).

“Seriously, how can ‘the Way’ ‘open up’ for us to keep this, which the LDS people adhered to as a ‘very important instruction to us’ from Our Heavenly Father, when the Politicians who have control of the US Government have forbidden us to adhere to that?” …

As I have told you, I have made the arrangements with a highly recommended … Businessman, who lives in Salt Lake, to incorporate our Headquarters Operation. …by the Headquarters of the Church, will be very respected, and we are assured, by our Co-workers, that there will be no interferences, at all, with our beginning these “… Services,” for the Church, … in the way that “to the very best of our abilities, all of us are trying to ‘continue in’ the Lord’s ‘goodness,’ as the Lord instructed us to do that, as ‘the way’ that ‘will open up’ for us, as President McKay prophesied that it will for ‘Our People’ to be able to ‘continue’ to Work Together By The Law,’” as we begin these Services that President McKay prophesied that “the way will open up” for Church Members to use.

Now for the STRATEGY, TO WIN THE WAR.

In the Booklet that I have e-mailed to you, that you have added to our Booklets that go along with the 1,000-page Course, which is entitled, “THE TWO COUNTERFEITS,” there is a lot of Information there that shows that the Enemy of Mankind is now ready to be defeated.

This Booklet may be helpful to people, to give them confidence …

… our STRATEGY, let’s talk about some of the things that pertain to it.

In our Church Missionary Work for Decades our Missionaries have talked about the concept of, “the Apostacy.” However, there is nowhere in our Scriptures that that word appears. In D&C 86:3 the Lord talks about, “the great persecutor of the church, the apostate … that maketh all nations to drink of her cup, in whose hearts the enemy, even Satan sitteth to reign.”

As I told you, I have an LDS friend who is a National Leader of the John Birch Society. He wrote a Book entitled, “The Hidden Things of Darkness.” That expression came from the words that the Prophet Joseph Smith wrote, while he was imprisoned in the horrors of Liberty Jail, in

D&C 124:13-14:

13. Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in
bringing to light all of the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know
them; and they are truly manifest from heaven─

14. These should be attended to with great earnestness.

By the expression, “the hidden things of darkness,” the Prophet Joseph was referring to all of the horrible evils that the, apparently decent, American People in that part of the Country were subjecting the Members of Our Church to. The issue was, all of the evils that originated from:

7. … the most damning hand of murder, tyranny, and oppression,
supported and urged on and upheld by the influence of that spirit which
hath so strongly riveted the creeds of the fathers, who have inherited lies,
upon the hearts of the children, and filled the world with confusion, and
has been growing stronger and stronger, and is now the very mainspring
of all corruption, and the whole earth groans under the weight of its
iniquity.

My friend, the Leader in the John Birch Society, when he stayed at my place for two days, was very much to the point how that it is the duty of the LDS People to “waste and wear out our lives,” in “great earnestness,” “in bringing to light all of the hidden things of darkness” that were behind all of the horrible evils that were being perpetrated upon the Members of the Church who had come west to Missouri, and continue till today.

The subject came up if I knew who “the Apostate” was. I told him exactly who the Apostate is and I showed him the information about how it is his Organization that is behind so many of the Evils in the World today, and has been that throughout history. My friend, the author, was very alerted, when he learned all of those things that had been the questions that he had been writing about.

In THE TWO COUNTERFEITS we bring “to light the hidden things of darkness” that we are instructed to “waste and were out our lives in bringing to light,” about those things. This gives our Leadership People confidence that we can operate, continue, prosper etc., in this environment that has been dominated by so many evils in the past.

However, in The CONCLUSION (to THE TWO COUNTERFEITS), where we show how the Apostate and his Organization has been destroyed, and won’t be missed, at all, by the righteous people of the World, it seems like that is a thing that can be used as our people “graduate” from our Support Organization (in which they may operate as they are preparing for Leadership Positions in the... like when they are going through the 1,000-page Course etc.), that is when they are ready to become Members of the Gilds which operate and own the... So, let’s conclude this Message by briefly addressing the Topic of these Two Organizations of ours:


The Support Organization

As was mentioned, it seems that there is much wisdom in incorporating … However, it might be well to also incorporate The Support Organization there.

… There may be hundreds of thousands of persons who belong to Organizations like this, made up of mostly LDS people, who are supportive of the Goals that we alone are able, technically and legally, to work toward.

In thinking in relation to the 500,000 London Free Men, who currently operate the London Bond Market, as the Financial Capital of the World, the way that, through the Centuries, they have been prepared for their Responsibilities in the 25 Guilds of the Commonwealth of London, is their traditional method of that preparation through their Apprenticeship Organizations. Our Support Organization will be our “Internet way of training most of those people, around the World, who wish to prepare themselves for Professional Responsibilities in the …” That is, it will be our “Training” or “Apprenticeship” Organization.

Of course all participants in the Support Organization will have to pay for the Services that Train them, which Services will come to them, mostly, through the Internet…

The Main Organization

The Explanation of the Operation of The Main Organization is explained in detail in the 1,000-page Course and in its Support Materials…

[ithink]

Cleon Skousen discusses in the Audio series, THE MIRACLE OF AMERICA, that the Freemen Institute was renamed to NCCS because of the actions and bad name that some of the Montana Freemen gave to the organization. They were making their own checks and buying goods and people were victims of the fruad etc.

I don't know how that fits into what Bruce Wydner has to say.

-Paul

Making their own checks? That is funny, since that is exactly how money is created today -- it is you making a check to the bank, which they turn around and loan back to you. Money changers. The problem is the government wants the bankers to have a monopoly on that business, so if anyone starts doing that, they will react swiftly and violently. Don't steal! The government hates competition!

[Darren]

I was on the phone last night for a couple of hours with a former Freeman Institute member and friend of Cleon Skousen, Marvin Hall.

Marvin said that he did not know the exact reason for the demise of the Freeman Institute, he did however remember hearing that it had something to do with theft or mis-allocation of monies that belonged to the Freeman Institute by someone in the main office, as well as some poor financial decisions by this or other persons. I asked him who that person was, and he said that he was not told who it was.

I asked him about the Freeman Institute original books and materials, and he said that all of them are in Zeldon Nelson’s storage building.

Marvin told me that “Church Leaders” asked Zeldon to discontinue publishing the original Freeman Institute materials. Marvin said that the Church Leaders told Zeldon that the Freeman Institute was causing negative publicity toward the Church, especially after the Montana Freeman and related messes. These things were not good for the Church in its main mission or public image.

Marvin said that Church Leaders counseled Cleon Skousen to tone down his message, and limit his efforts to a more palatable public effort. To stick to the Constitution.

Here is some history of the negative things that happened with Freeman Institute related materials:

http://www.adl.org/mwd/common.asp

By the early 1980s, practitioners of common law ideology had gone so far as to advocate setting up their own court and jury systems, in full defiance of the "de facto" systems they opposed. William Potter Gale, visiting James Wickstrom in Tigerton, Wisconsin, in May 1981, responded to news that a Wisconsin legislator proposed a bill against paramilitary training by saying, "I think you guys ought to hang that son-of-a-&!@$#." Wickstrom replied that the legislator deserved some sort of hearing by a "citizen’s grand jury" first. By December of the following year, Wickstrom had actually formed such a "grand jury," one of the first "common law courts" to begin operation. Nor was it the only one. In January 1983, sheriffs in Kansas received letters from the "Citizens Grand Jury of Kansas," the members of which threatened local judges and said if they were not jailed, Grand Jury members "would take the law into their own hands and the judges would end up buried in a potter’s field." (15)

These self-styled grand juries and courts demonstrated the willingness of Posse members not only to oppose local or federal government, but to go so far as to set up parallel governments of their own. One of the best examples of this growing sentiment in the early 1980s was the "township" movement. The township movement was started by a Utah tax protester named Walter P. Mann III, who sold information packets for $20 detailing how to avoid filing federal income tax returns and offered $1,000 seminars on forming "common law governments." His seminars became popular, as did his ideas about townships. As early as 1980 a group in South Carolina formed a "township" based on common law. Self-described survivalists who were convinced that the United States was about to collapse financially, they wanted to be ready with "an ancillary form of government." (16)

Walter Mann popularized the township concept. He argued for the creation of heavily armed communities based on "common law," which he claimed superseded the laws of the United States. By 1982, Mann boasted of chapters in 40 U.S. cities. The township concept was popular primarily because, according to the strictures, each township was completely autonomous, completely independent--most especially, independent from the federal government. Mann follower Gordan Jenkins established "Zion Township" in southern Utah, while James Wickstrom established the "Township of Tigerton Dells" in Wisconsin. Gordon Kahl was in the process of establishing a township the day marshals attempted to arrest him. Other notorious townships were established in Walla Walla, Washington and Texas. It was no coincidence that a decade later the Montana Freemen named their Montana refuge "Justus Township." These townships, according to Mann's theories, allowed their law to take precedence over the "'equity' court system."

Of course, local and state authorities were not particularly pleased with people setting up autonomous "townships" in their midst, often within the boundaries of other communities. Township advocates said that their townships had no geographical boundaries. Legitimate officials responded by enforcing tax laws, zoning laws and statutes against impersonating public officials. Typically clashes started over traffic tickets. For instance, a member of the "Southern District of Texas Township Court," a "people's court" operating north of Houston in the early 1980s, was issued a traffic ticket in Montgomery County, Texas. The townshipper attempted to pay the traffic fine with a bogus money order--thirteen years before the Montana Freemen would become famous for issuing such fraudulent financial instruments. When the city judge refused to accept the phony money order, the Township Court issued subpoenas and summonses for county officials to appear before it. Instead Texas Rangers and local officials raided the township court and arrested three members for tampering with government records and impersonating a government official.

Common law adherents responded to such moves with their favorite weapon: liens. Richard Cooper, "Supreme Court judge" of the common law court of Zion Township, for instance, filed 41 property liens totaling $12 million in the early 1980s against various federal, state and local officials. In Walla Walla, Washington, Posse members issued "common law liens" totaling $29 million against ten officials. The courts ruled the liens invalid, as always, but the tactic nevertheless proved highly frustrating to public officials trying to perform their duties. Common law court adherents found placing liens a successful tactic because the liens discouraged officials from acting against Posse members, they clogged the legal system, and sometimes had other uses as well. For instance, when Maryland officials decided to dispute the status of a Posse Comitatus group in Maryland that had claimed their posse was legal, the leader of the local group sent his followers to every courthouse in the entire state to file property liens against every district and circuit court judge. Posse members hoped this would disqualify the judges from hearing the case against them. However, they inadvertently missed one judge, who was secretly assigned to hear the case. He threw out the liens and declared the Posse's activities illegal. Another imaginative creation was the notion of "signature liens," used by a common law advocate, Raymond L. Montee, in 1982. Montee filed "common law signature liens" against sixty public officials and their spouses, which he claimed would prohibit officials from signing their name. Montee argued that if they were not allowed to sign their name, they could not vote and would have to be removed from voter lists.

The total amount of bogus liens placed by common law advocates on officials in the early 1980s is not known, but estimates run into the hundreds of millions of dollars. Many if not most public officials were uncertain how to respond to such pseudolegal tactics. The federal government, however, soon made it illegal to place liens on Internal Revenue Service agents. Several states also adopted statues prohibiting the filing of bogus liens.

I personally believe that it is time now to take up the cause of Freemen, in a New Freeman Institute. Based on correct principles, based on the Scriptures of the lost tribes of Israel, that are easily available on the Internet. And commit to a new and fresh effort.

God Bless,
Darren

[pritchet1]

But not this -
Freemen Institute

So what is going on here? NCCS Is it really the "Legacy of Cleon Skousen" or not?

If not, what can I do to help restore what was Cleon Skousen 's original intent? Or are we doing that (attempting to do) here with the LDS Freedom Forum?


Or is it really being done here? The Title of Liberty or here? Latter-day Conservative

[highfive]

Darren says:

I personally believe that it is time now to take up the cause of Freemen, in a New Freeman Institute. Based on correct principles, based on the Scriptures of the lost tribes of Israel, that are easily available on the Internet. And commit to a new and fresh effort.

Maybe we should wait for the church to take the lead. Is there a reason to think that public opinion would be different now? Is there a reason to think the Church leadership would view it differently? And we know it would not succeed if the time is not right.

[pritchet1]

I suggested that "Latter-day Conservative" do online fee-based interactive training, after licensing approval from the Skousen family.

[lundbaek]

Whatever action is decided on, do not wait for the church to take the lead. Anybody else know what Elder Benson had to say about waiting for the Church to come up with a program? See the list of quotes attributed to him. There is no reason to think that public opinion would be different now. But there are surely a few people who would be receptive and responsive to the message. Why should we even care if the Church leadership would view it differently? The Church is quite capable of asking us to discontinue or back off, and has done so in certain instances. And how are we to know if the time is right or not.

Must we be commanded in all things?

[CHH]

Darren says:

I personally believe that it is time now to take up the cause of Freemen, in a New Freeman Institute. Based on correct principles, based on the Scriptures of the lost tribes of Israel, that are easily available on the Internet. And commit to a new and fresh effort.

Maybe we should wait for the church to take the lead. Is there a reason to think that public opinion would be different now? Is there a reason to think the Church leadership would view it differently? And we know it would not succeed if the time is not right.

Yes! We must wait for the Brethren to tell us what to do. We cannot act on our own or we would not be "good" members.

[CHH]

Bruce went over this with me several times. So I asked him to tell me again. The linked MP3 file is his first-hand account of the demise of the Freeman Institute.

http://72.35.183.153/wit/wydner_on_demi ... titute.mp3

11 minutes long.

God Bless,
Darren

I love how he calls the guy that destroyed the Freemen institute an idiot. And Obama is stupid and the IRS agents are dumb and George W. was a moron and all of you taxpayers are smart. LOL

[CHH]

But not this -
Freemen Institute

So what is going on here? NCCS Is it really the "Legacy of Cleon Skousen" or not?

If not, what can I do to help restore what was Cleon Skousen 's original intent? Or are we doing that (attempting to do) here with the LDS Freedom Forum?


Or is it really being done here? The Title of Liberty or here? Latter-day Conservative

Maybe we should listen to a dead prophet when we consider a name?

Prophecy of Joseph Smith, as recorded by Mosiah Lyman Hancock (June 19, 1844), commonly known as the “Hancock Prophecy”:
The next day the Prophet came to our home and stopped in our carpenter shop and stood by the turning lathe. I went and got my map for him. "Now," he said, "I will show you the travels of this people." He then showed our travels thou Iowa, and said, "Here you will make a place for the winter; and here you will travel west until you come to the valley of the Great Salt Lake! You will build cities to the North and to the South, and to the East and to the West; and you will become a great and wealthy people in that land. But, the United States will not receive you with the laws which God desires you to live, and you will have to go to where the Nephites lost their power. They worked in the United Order for 166 years, and the Saints have got to become proficient in the laws of God before they can meet the Lord Jesus Christ, or even the city of Enoch." He said we will not travel the shape of the horse shoe for there we will await the action of the government. Placing his finger on the map, I should think about where Snowflake, Arizona is situated, or it could have been Mexico, he said, "The government will not receive you with the laws that God designed you to live, and those who are desirous to live the laws of God will have to go South. You will live to see men arise in power in the Church who will seek to put down your friends and the friends of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Many will be hoisted because of their money and the worldly learning which they seem to be in possession of; and many who are the true followers of our Lord and Savior will be cast down because of their poverty. There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands, until other nations will say, "Let's divide up the lands of United States." Then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their forefathers, that the land will not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up, when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, "Brethren, we are glad you have come. Give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God." Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when it's liberty hangs by a hair, as it were.
(Sources: The Journal of Mosiah Lyman Hancock, p. 19-20; Autobiography of Mosiah Hancock, typescript, BYU Library Special Collections, p. 29. Compiled by Amy E. Baird, Victoria H. Jackson, and Laura L. Wassell (daughters of Mosiah Hancock).
http://www.math.byu.edu/~smithw/Lds/LDS ... ncock.html and http://www.kingdomofzion.org/doctrines/ ... ournal.txt. See also Crowther, Duane S., Inspired Prophetic Warnings, Horizon Publishers, Bountiful, UT, 1987, pp. 186-187.)

[pritchet1]

Well, I think I might fit in the "poverty" part of that revelation already. I certainly do not fit in the "rich and wealthy" end of it.

[Darren]

But not this -
Freemen Institute

I spent some time on that web site. It has little to no information on Freemen culture that existed and flourished for more than a millennium prior to the time of the founding of the United States. That web site is only one of many Constitution focused websites I have seen, but not a true Freemen website.

So what is going on here? NCCS Is it really the "Legacy of Cleon Skousen" or not?

Yes it is his legacy but in the format Cleon fell back on after the Freeman Institute failed to bring back Freemen culture for our people. But it is not the legacy of Cleon’s “Majesty of God’s Law” book.

If not, what can I do to help restore what was Cleon Skousen 's original intent? Or are we doing that (attempting to do) here with the LDS Freedom Forum?

Cleon Skousen’s original intent came from a calling he received by President David O. McKay, after President McKay had observed how London operated as he served as President of the European Mission. He only knew that there was an untold story of working together only lived at times and in some places by the LDS people.

For you, you can discover the millenniums old Freeman Culture at the New Freeman Institute, that we are now contemplating the beginnings of. And as you digest this perspective of President McKay’s and as begun by Cleon Skousen you can help others to begin to embrace this Freemen culture.

Brian has been a Cleon Skousen devotee. But when Brian was studying with the Skousen family, they no longer were focusing on the message unique to the Freeman Institute’s Purpose. There is no group that I know of that even comes close to the study of Freemen culture as envisioned by Cleon Skousen in his book, “The Majesty of God’s Law.”

So it is up to the few of us who have begun to show some interest to do so.

Or is it really being done here? The Title of Liberty or here? Latter-day Conservative

Not yet, but maybe soon, If you and I do so.

Maybe we should wait for the church to take the lead. Is there a reason to think that public opinion would be different now? Is there a reason to think the Church leadership would view it differently? And we know it would not succeed if the time is not right.

I have no intention to wait. Besides President McKay said that the Freeman Institute had to be done outside the church, as it was the Business Culture lived by the LDS people, that had to return to freemen principles.

I suggested that "Latter-day Conservative" do online fee-based interactive training, after licensing approval from the Skousen family.

Cleon is only one source for Freeman Institute materials. And besides, it really is a project in its infancy, ready for a new group working on a fresh path. The internet opens up so many new opportunities, and resources for Freemen perspective.

Whatever action is decided on, do not wait for the church to take the lead. Anybody else know what Elder Benson had to say about waiting for the Church to come up with a program? See the list of quotes attributed to him. There is no reason to think that public opinion would be different now. But there are surely a few people who would be receptive and responsive to the message. Why should we even care if the Church leadership would view it differently? The Church is quite capable of asking us to discontinue or back off, and has done so in certain instances. And how are we to know if the time is right or not.

Must we be commanded in all things?

I agree.

Yes! We must wait for the Brethren to tell us what to do. We cannot act on our own or we would not be "good" members.

And I also agree with that sarcasm.

Anxiously engaged in a good cause based on the culture of our ancestors can in no way be apostate. The Freemen culture is the utmost in working by goodness, and not outside the directives of the Church. Working together by ancient Nordic culture is in no way outside of Common Law or approved Church culture.

Independent American Party

I know this may seem to be semantics but a Party is a False Religion. There is only one legitimate system of force, and that system of force is the “self-control force” of the gospel of Jesus Christ. From the time Jesus Christ visited the lost tribes of Israel, the only name that the true followers organized under has been the BAND or HANSA (a Germanic word for band) of Christians living and working together by the institutions of LAW. And those folks living by that system were always called Freemen. Living by the law, we are a BAND OF FREEMEN. And I will march side by side with you under that banner.

Alma 51: 6-7
6 And those who were desirous that Pahoran should remain chief judge over the land took upon them the name of freemen; and thus was the division among them, for the freemen had sworn or covenanted to maintain their rights and the privileges of their religion by a free government.

The New Freeman Institute must be for positive learning, and positive action, void of Babylonian ideals. Otherwise it will be divided and must fail.

God Bless,
Darren

[creator]

Brian has been a Cleon Skousen devotee. But when Brian was studying with the Skousen family, they no longer were focusing on the message unique to the Freeman Institute’s Purpose. There is no group that I know of that even comes close to the study of Freemen culture as envisioned by Cleon Skousen in his book, “The Majesty of God’s Law.”

Brother Skousen did, from time-to-time, give us examples of how the Law of Consecration / United Order would be lived, and some tidbits from "The Majesty of God's Law"... unfortunately I have not read the book. I better get to it so I have a better idea of what Darren is talking about.

[creator]

Darren,
As you already know, there are multiple stories regarding the Freemen Institute, depending on who you ask about it.

My father-in-law, Richard, was a student of Brother Skousen at BYU at the time the Freemen Institute was established just outside of campus. Also, Richard's father is Brother Skousen's first cousin, so they also have had interactions due to that relation.

Richard told me that in a speech Brother Skousen gave he said that he originally named the organization after the Freemen in the Book of Mormon and later changed it to NCCS (National Center for Constitutional Studies) because his audience was so varied that many of them did not know what he meant by "Freemen".