city of enoch/venus

[sushi_chef]

joseph smith was said to have said city of enoch is in the planet venus, according to eliza et al....so, should be subterranean/underground city.

"Zion — Returning to the Gulf of Mexico?"
http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/Zion-Enoch ... %20Mex.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

now my question is: is that true that in ancient heavenly-bodys-maps/celestial-charts/uranometry etc in the world, venus suddenly comes up around bc 3rd millennium, before that no mention about venus at all, just sun, moon, mercury, mars, jupiter and saturn??

does "Worlds in Collision"(1950) by Velikovsky,Immanuel mention it, or not??
*-:)

[marc]

http://www.amazon.com/Prophecy-Trilogy- ... y+e+larson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A lot about Venus and its origin.

[bethany]

you live in a 3rd dimensional reality. they live in a 5th dimensional reality. they would more likely be above the surface. 3rd dimensional beings are not capable of seeing 5th dimensional beings unless those 5th dimensional beings choose to lower their vibrations to accomodate them. which applies to their cities & structures also.

[sushi_chef]

elaborate on, please, 5th dimension stuff....am all ears, will be teachable, promise....
(*)

[bethany]

vibrations. we cannot see 5th dimensional realities because of our condition. there are higher dimensions than 5th, but the 5th would be the next level that we would attain. as for where the city of Enoch is actually located right this minute, i cannot say. however i can say that i am aware of 3 people that i know personally that have seen cities that reside about a mile above us. a friend's daughter was one day looking up & in awe explained to her mother what she was seeing... the mother then looked up & saw the same thing. it was a massive city up in the atmosphere of the earth. when i used to read a lot of near death stories & other similar stories, i read many where a child would be gazing at heaven at night trying to go to sleep & witness a sparkling city sitting among the clouds so to speak.

they are not subject to our laws so they are not obligated to the surface of a planet.

the 4th dimension is where we create things. this is what people tap into when they witness/envision an event from the future, they have merely tapped into the mental creations of those who plot & plan either for the good or the bad. so if you have a vision of something that could happen in the future, you have tapped into the 4th dimension. those things are always in flux & can be altered. i would have to think hard about what i ought to say on an lds board. there won't be any scripture verses to cite here ;)

[North_Star]

I think the 5th Dimension was a singing group.

http://thefifthdimension.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bethany]

I think the 5th Dimension was a singing group.

http://thefifthdimension.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

my husband thought 'mormons' were a singing group, you know, like 'osmonds'. boy was he shocked when he found out what he had fallen for... (as in me, a mormon)

[sushi_chef]

ummm....interesting....but, wouldnt that be the spirit world they saw than city of enoch???

[bethany]

ummm....interesting....but, wouldnt that be the spirit world they saw than city of enoch???

They were told otherwise.

[bethany]

I don't post this with an expectation of ppl believing it, I post it with the expectation that you will soon see & learn something & go wow, I read that once some time back... ;)

[mes5464]

I don't post this with an expectation of ppl believing it, I post it with the expectation that you will soon see & learn something & go wow, I read that once some time back... ;)

Can you recommend any websites or books to read about this?

[bethany]

I don't say this to be rude or condescending in anyway. I spent decades... As in nearly 5 in the Mormon bubble of straining my sources through lds filters & discounting all else. So if I shared resources, they would be tossed aside thru that filter. This information will be apparent in the not so distant future is all I am saying. I have found many lds ppl on a path that seeks this & is finding those venues acceptable. For me, the information is integral to the type of knowledge that I have sought for years & is useful to my purposes.

But I don't think I feel like the rest of this thread should be dedicated to ripping the info apart because 'only the prophet is privy to such information'. Just park it somewhere with a lets wait & see attitude.

[shestalou]

I have always heard that the city of Enoch was the Heaven that the people from the Tower of Babel was trying to reach with their tower, does anyone know this to be true???? :-\

[bethany]

I had heard/read that. That the ppl could see it about a mile up in the atmosphere & sought to obtain it. Can't remember if that was from Nibley or not.

[mes5464]

I have always heard that the city of Enoch was the Heaven that the people from the Tower of Babel was trying to reach with their tower, does anyone know this to be true???? :-\

I remember hearing the same thing.

[SempiternalHarbinger]

I have always heard that the city of Enoch was the Heaven that the people from the Tower of Babel was trying to reach with their tower, does anyone know this to be true???? :-\

I remember hearing the same thing.

It's true. Coachmarc already pointed the way.

http://www.amazon.com/Prophecy-Trilogy- ... y+e+larson

A lot about Venus and its origin.

And I might add that all three books are heavily influenced by Immanuel Velikovsky.

So basically, Joseph taught that the purpose of the people of Babel was not to build a tower to reach some distant star, but rather to build a tower to reach Zion, which stood in a fixed position (pole star position) in close proximity to the earth, and so close was this city (planet) that the people of Babel thought it was feasible to build a tower to reach it. The truth of this can be found in comparative mythology of all ancient cultures the world over. Often times it is called the "radiant city" or "temple of god". One Egyptian text calls it "the City of the Firstborn." The entire ancient world built their earthly temples to replicate the "radiant city" or "temple of god" [archetype] which stood close above between heaven and earth. Thus, as it is above, so it is below... The center of all ancient civilization was the temple and all were designed as small scales of the heavens. One of the more popular myths that have the same origins as the city of Enoch is Atlantis. Plato's description of Atlantis is steeped in imagery of world mythology and no doubt draws it's imagery from the same source as Enoch and the Tower of Babel.

“About the time of Abraham, the Tower of Babel was built. … They thought that the City of Enoch was caught up a little ways from the earth, and that the city [planet] was within the first sphere above the earth; and that if they could get a tower high enough they might get to heaven where the City of Enoch and the inhabitants thereof were located.” (Orson Pratt; Journal of Discourses, 16:50.)

“… the object of the people who built the Tower of Babel (was) to reach heaven, to attain one of the starry planets, one of the heavenly bodies. … I cannot conceive how … a race of people … could cherish the idea that they could actually reach the sun, moon, or one of the stars simply by piling brick upon brick and stone upon stone. But the Prophet Joseph Smith, whose job it was to shed light upon the darkness of this generation, is said to have declared that it was not their intention to reach heaven, but to reach Zion, which was then suspended in mid-air between heaven and earth, or at such a height as to render the project feasible. This certainly is more reasonable.” (Collected Discourses, Vol. 1, p. 359.)

A Knowledge of the Stars; What Joseph Smith Taught the Early Saints
http://mormonprophecy.blogspot.com/2008 ... stars.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"G.A. Ahlstrom says there are two basic symbols of the temple are in general 1.)it's cosmic symbolism, and 2.) the paradise motif, setting it aside as a sort of half-way house that stood between heaven and earth. (-Hugh Nibley; Temple and Cosmos)

===============

joseph smith was said to have said city of enoch is in the planet venus, according to eliza et al....so, should be subterranean/underground city.

"Zion — Returning to the Gulf of Mexico?"
http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/Zion-Enoch ... %20Mex.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

now my question is: is that true that in ancient heavenly-bodys-maps/celestial-charts/uranometry etc in the world, venus suddenly comes up around bc 3rd millennium, before that no mention about venus at all, just sun, moon, mercury, mars, jupiter and saturn??

does "Worlds in Collision"(1950) by Velikovsky, Immanuel mention it, or not??
*-:)

Yes, the great Jewish scholar does mention it, but I believe he was mistaken. He also makes no connection between Venus and Enoch. Velikovsky has the planet Mercury as the agent of the Tower of Babel catastrophe, not Venus. But I don't believe he discusses this in Worlds in Collision.

I know Eliza R Snow said Joseph taught her that both the City of Enoch and the lost tribes departed on different planets, (so did many others) but none make the Venus Enoch connection as far as I know. I could be wrong. Do you have a reference to the quote? You may be referring to the Philo Dibble facsimile, a drawing of the ancient heavens by Joseph Smith where he depicts 3 planets sharing the same polar axis and where Joseph is to have said the 3 planets were Earth, Mars, and Venus.? Philo Dibble could also have been mistaken on the names though I tend to believe he got it right. Anthony Larson believes Dibble was mistaken.

If I have you correct, (please correct me if I'm wrong) but If Velikovsky is correct that Venus is new to the scene and was born out of Jupiter during the mid-2nd millennium BCE, than how could Venus possibly be the residence of Enoch??

Velikovsky chronology is wrong. Also, his observation that “in the third millennium only four planets could have been seen, and that in astronomical charts of this early period the planet Venus cannot be found” has been proven wrong to my satisfaction.

Having said that I believe Velikovsky hit on many eternal truths that have since been built upon by some of the best scholars in modern times. His interpretation of some events in the Bible based on astronomical events that occurred in antiquity are significant and worth looking into including the biblical history and in the chronology of Egypt. If you haven't already may I suggest I you take a look at Anthony Larsons books and website as well as the Thunderbolt Project. (Electric Universe) Also check out the works of comparative mythologist David Talbott, Dwardu Cardona and Ev Cochrane.

For those interested in more check out these two videos by the Thunderbolt Project. Well worth the time.

[Jason]

Glad to see you continue to post your treasures Semp!!!

[sushi_chef]

alas, so, no connections between city of enoch and venus uttered by those early church members....absolute zero....

http://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=%22c ... 3_sa&x=wrt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:-B

[SempiternalHarbinger]

alas, so, no connections between city of enoch and venus uttered by those early church members....absolute zero....

http://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=%22c ... 3_sa&x=wrt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:-B

You are putting words in my mouth. Did you read my post? I didn't say there was no connection between the two, I said I have never seen one lds quote that makes the connections.

The google search you provided above does not provide a single quote (as you seem to think) making the connection between Enoch and Venus. And every link with the words Enoch and Venus refers to one source, one quote, here it is…

Wait! There's more! You have read about the City of Enoch, that was taken up bodily? Well, That's the planet VENUS! Joseph Smith said (according to his plural wife Eliza R. Snow, as reported in Charles Lowell Walker's diary report about a conversation he had with her in 1881) that the earth was ninety times smaller now than it was when created. So, it MUST BE that part of it was taken away - when Enoch's city was taken? - of course! - and became the planet Venus. Wow!

All the links refer to this one quote. But Eliza Snow as reported never mentions Venus. Whoever wrote the above paper is the one that draws this conconclusion not Eliza Snow. Notice... "Joseph Smith said that the earth was ninety times smaller now than it was when created." So ERS reported that the Earth is 90x smaller now than when it was created. Nothing more. Notice what follows..."So, it MUST BE that part of it was taken away - when Enoch's city was taken? - of course! - and became the planet Venus. Wow!"

"So it must be" is the authors conclusion not Eliza R Snow. I have never read Charles Lowell Walker’s diary report so I have no idea what was said. I need more. But I bet there is no mention of Venus.

I also told you Velikovsky chronology about Venus has been proven to be wrong. I also believe there is some truth to the ERS quote...

“The stars [planets] which will fall to earth are fragments, which have been broken off from the earth from time to time in the mighty convulsions of nature …. These all must be restored again at the ‘times of restitution of all things.’ …When these fragments (some of which are vastly larger than the present earth) are brought back and joined to this earth, it will cause a convulsion of all nature …. The mountains will flow down, the valley rise, the sea retire to its own place, the islands and continents will be removed, and the earth be rolled together as a scroll.” (Parley P Pratt; The Millennial Star, 1:258.)

A Knowledge of the Stars; What Joseph Smith Taught the Early Saints
http://mormonprophecy.blogspot.com/2008 ... stars.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SempiternalHarbinger]

Glad to see you continue to post your treasures Semp!!!

Thanks Jason. Like you I rarely post these days. How are you doing my brother? I have been meaning to PM you, i hope you and the family are well. -Matt

[sushi_chef]

hithere....urrr....have been reading, will be reading by and by.... anyhow, am pretty much interested in that book, to see authors explanation why and how he connected it to venus, "People in Space"(1990/9) by John Heinerman.

so, presume and propose that me and most other viewers would very much appreciate and praise forever or as long as their memories last, if you, may i call sempi san, might be kind, generous, and gracious enough to be able to go to your local library with some happiness perhaps, since seems living in salt lake, which some call zion, other might call s & g presumed, and then to pick that book, copy that chapter or paragraphs which explains it with sources if there are and load/quote(write/type etc) them with your some thoughts and comment in this thread.

btw, does your avater connect to these??

http://image.search.yahoo.co.jp/search? ... hunderbolt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"BILL MULLEN: Visual Intuition and the Ancient Sky | EU 2013"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQkGVRRoDt4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.theplasmaverse.com/verse/squ ... lyphs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
*-:)

[SempiternalHarbinger]

hithere....urrr....have been reading, will be reading by and by.... anyhow, am pretty much interested in that book, to see authors explanation why and how he connected it to venus, "People in Space"(1990/9) by John Heinerman.

so, presume and propose that me and most other viewers would very much appreciate and praise forever or as long as their memories last, if you, may i call sempi san, might be kind, generous, and gracious enough to be able to go to your local library with some happiness perhaps, since seems living in salt lake, which some call zion, other might call s & g presumed, and then to pick that book, copy that chapter or paragraphs which explains it with sources if there are and load/quote(write/type etc) them with your some thoughts and comment in this thread.

btw, does your avater connect to these??

http://image.search.yahoo.co.jp/search? ... hunderbolt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"BILL MULLEN: Visual Intuition and the Ancient Sky | EU 2013"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQkGVRRoDt4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.theplasmaverse.com/verse/squ ... lyphs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
*-:)

Yes indeed, my avatar is connected with the thunderbolts of the gods. If you notice, the video you posted by Bill Mullen took place at the Electric Universe conference, which is the thunderbolt project. The two documentary videos I posted above are by the thunderbolt project which expounds immensely on Bill Mullen presentation. fwiw.

All of the depictions of the ancient gods weapon of choice, the thunderbolt are correct depictions of what we now know as a plasma discharge. The link you provided above has this image of the epic myth of the celestial battle between the beast, the Babylonian creation goddess Tiamat and the thunderbolt god, Marduk,. Notice feet, hands, head. (how can you miss it.) One of the most profound archetypes of the early cultures is also among the most enigmatic.



In the ritual of the Babylonian Akitu Festival, the enemy is the dragon Tiamat, subdued by the god Marduk. For the Egyptians it was the dragon Apep, defeated by Ra or his agent Horus. For the Greeks it was the fiery serpents Typhoon or Python, vanquished respectively by Zeus and Apollo. Hindu accounts similarly recalled the attack of the sky-darkening serpent Vritra, felled by Indra. But these are only a few of hundreds of such accounts preserved around the world.

Here is a close up of the photo above of the god Marduk's thunderbolt...


Now here is a plasma discharge from Anthony Peratt...



Now the amount of energy to be able to produce a small image of Marduk thunderbolt requires almost 80x the amount of the entire worlds electrical output. The Z-Machine. (Z pinch machine)



Thanks for the response and your welcome to call me whatever you like. I do live in salt lake but I promise you it is one of the furthest places from zion on earth. It is the heart of babylon the great. I will also try and find the book "People in Space" at the library this week and will report back to you. Take care.

[sushi_chef]

thanks sempi san, seems you have lots of lecture series of plazma....will try harder to read some of your....

now, although lost url and the source/english sentences, according to my memo/note, around 2007 may, there was a homepage or something that wrote, from the diary of charles l walker, while his visiting eliza r snow, she said she was informed by joseph that city of enoch is in venus which was separated from the earth.


conversation took place around 1881 march 10?!
"City of Enoch, Lost Ten Tribes, Moon Shall Turn to Blood; Earth Shall Reel To and Fro by Robert C. Fillerup
Last modified: October 24, 2000 "
http://www.code-co.com/rcf/mhistdoc/enoch.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

seems charles lowell walker (1832–1904) s diary is preserved in byu provo library. anyone wants go and check to see?? please??
:-B :YMAPPLAUSE:

[jackthe]

If you have the time and money to take this course it will explain it all: http://www.instantpresenter.com/anthonyelarson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sushi_chef]

would like to really focus on venus/city-of-enoch connection right now....seems he, mr larson san, didnt quote either from walkers diary, supposedly there is such, meant by, elizas saying about that connection is in that journal.

"Thurs., Mar. 10 (1881) … at night paid Sister Eliza R. Snow a short visit and had some conversation with her on the dividing of the earth. She told me.... ‘Earth reel to and fro like a drunken man.’ She also stated that he said the Earth was now ninety times smaller now than when first created or organized. (Journal of Charles Walker, p. 38.)
"
http://mormonprophecy.blogspot.jp/2008/ ... ction.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so, jackt san, can you devulge/share some relevant info/elizas saying of the connection from the course you recommend and had taken presumably??
if cant, its ok, anyway.
:-B