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Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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As a therapist one of my least favorite patients was a sociopath who used to brag that he convinced his employer(s) that he would protect their back pocket while he stole them blind from their front pocket.
The Democratic leadership is doing the same thing. They know that the more poor there are, the more likely they will vote Democratic while the wealthier they are the more conservative they become. So the simple solution is to pretend they are protecting the back pocket of people. They make the majority think they are helping them by taxing the 'one percent' while they know that taxing the job producers results in less jobs and more poor people.
It's a brilliant strategy to sucker in the majority which has been used by Mao when he killed millions of farm holders and caused tens of millions to starve because no one wanted to risk owning a farm. It was used by Stalin when he arrested millions of farm owners which cause the Ukraine to go into a famine because no one wanted to risk owning a farm. And now Obama and his compatriots are going to raise taxes on the 'rich' just to stay in power by creating a larger pool of supporters.
History shows that lowering taxes creates wealth. But the problem is that the more wealth is created the more people want to protect the wealth they gained and thus become more conservative. So the answer for those who want to grasp power from the left is to pretend they are helping the poor while they do their best to create more poor.
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Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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myron s 2012,

It's a cheap shot to compare our president to Mao or Stalin. "job creators" is an insipid mind control phrase, thank you Frank Luntz. Rich people don't make jobs. Jobs come when demand increases, and that usually comes from average people spending money. If there were no demand, it would not make any sense to create a job. Your basic premises are incorrect.

Tax Cuts Don't Lead to Economic Growth, a New 65-Year Study Finds

Image

George

P.S. Hint: maybe they really need to raise revenue to pay down the debt and invest in the future.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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You seem to have left out Kennedy and Regan's experience with lowering taxes. It takes a while to change momentum and Bush and Clinton's tax increases took a while to have their effect on the economy.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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myron s 2012 wrote:You seem to have left out Kennedy and Regan's experience with lowering taxes. It takes a while to change momentum and Bush and Clinton's tax increases took a while to have their effect on the economy.

myron s 2012

Why would a tax decrease create a job? If business is doing OK, and people are buying, then you can hire more workers if you need too. On the other hand, if I'm rich, say I get 100K a month. Instead of paying some amount only my accountant knows, I pay a little less. What difference does that make if I run a business? If I invest money into my business instead of taking it as income, that's tax deductible already! What you have is a party of the rich in a coalition with the religious, fooling them into voting against their own best interest and in the interest of rich people who want to be richer (and use their riches to buy a friendly government). That's class warfare at it's worst in that it only helps the elite.

George
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Taxes were heavily cut after WWII and America most likely enjoyed the height of its prosperity in the fifties and sixties. About fifty percent of Americans don't pay taxes. Those whole make six digits and more pay the most taxes.

George, your premise is wrong. If the rich don't create jobs than who does? The poor? Demand just doesn't create jobs but someone who is willing to invest capital. Also, average people spending money doesn't create jobs. Lol! Given your understanding, the government could give everyone a million dollars and magically millions of jobs would be created because the people would be spending the money.

Tax more, regulate more and control more and you will continue to see jobs vanish for good.

There is a reason people go overseas to produce something to then sell here.

Edit: Actually giving the people a million dollars each would temporarily fix our unemployment woes but the destruction of the currency would quickly overtake any worrying about unemployment.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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A world government can come together only after Americans are ready and willing (softened up) to give up their sovereignty. Among the things being done to soften up the United States is spending by every conceivable means of getting rid of ever larger sums of American money as wastefully as possible; deliberate bankrupting of America and the American people. This would logically include higher and much higher taxes, along with an increasingly unbalanced budget despite the higher taxes, and wild inflation and consequent devalution of our currency. Both the Republican and Democrat Parties are controlled by this conspiracy.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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I used to believe as myron s 2012 does until I found that the evidence simply does not support that position.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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As long as we have taxes, it seems there are two choices, have the rich pay their share or try to squeeze it all out of the poor and middle class. Unfortunatley, you can take every penny the poor have and it won't be near enough. That is why we have a deficet. The rich don't want to pay so we borrow instead.

Obama's policies favor the rich. He has threatened to make the rich pay their fair share but has not done so yet. Obama care is a way to make the rich richer.

Both parties favor the rich. Obama is a fake commie. He is really a crony capitalist.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Thomas wrote:As long as we have taxes, it seems there are two choices, have the rich pay their share or try to squeeze it all out of the poor and middle class. Unfortunatley, you can take every penny the poor have and it won't be near enough. That is why we have a deficet. The rich don't want to pay so we borrow instead.

Obama's policies favor the rich. He has threatened to make the rich pay their fair share but has not done so yet. Obama care is a way to make the rich richer.

Both parties favor the rich. Obama is a fake commie. He is really a crony capitalist.

Thomas,

The thing is, Obama doesn't make laws to increase taxes, that's the congress and so far they have been obstructionist.

George
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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That chart is deceiving. All the growth was during the dotcom bubble. Not due to tax policy. To the contrary, taxes were raised so the gov could take more of peoples earnings during the boom.
Where are we going? And, why are we in this handbasket?

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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Also, I don't believe that the rich are necessarily "job creators," and I have to agree with Geo. that it is a Frank Luntz euphemism. These days, the job creators are primarily small businesses started by middle class folks.

Of course, the definition of "rich" is bastardized by both sides of the aisle.

Anyway, it appears that George's side will win this fight. If normal guys take estrogen therapy, maybe we won't be so bummed out about it.
Where are we going? And, why are we in this handbasket?

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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Yeah, congress is the one that "votes" to raise taxes, but if you think the president/ovomit doesn't have influence your living in denial land Again! We know the majority of congressman are bought off too...soooooooo

Just thought I'd throw this in for FUN! :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

Obama’s second-term plan: Let the UN tax Americans
By Dick Morris - 10/08/12 11:09 AM ET
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It should come as no surprise that President Obama will raise taxes if he is reelected. But here’s the shocker: he will invite the United Nations to tax Americans directly. And the proceeds would go directly to the Third World. In this way, Barack Hussein Obama will, indeed, realize the dreams of his father.

In our new book, Here come the black helicopters!: UN global governance and the loss of freedom, Eileen and I describe how there is now pending in the U.N. all kinds of plans to tax Americans and redistribute their wealth — not to other Americans, but to other countries. These taxes will not be like our U.N. dues paid by a vote of our Congress, nor will it be akin to foreign aid that we choose to give. They would be mandatory levies imposed by treaty on American citizens. And because they would be enumerated in a treaty, not an act of Congress, only the president and the Democratic Senate need be on board. The Republican House has no role in the treaty-making process.

Of course, we do not believe that actual black UN helicopters will land in our midst to take over our country. But we use the symbolism to warn that the liberal, bureaucratic elites in the U.N., enabled by Obama and Hillary Clinton, mean to create global governance to override American self-rule and independence.

Here is what we say in Black helicopters that Obama, Hillary and the U.N. are planning for us:
• A “Robin Hood” tax on financial transactions. Every time you buy or sell a stock or bond or exchange money while traveling, you’d be hit with a financial transactions tax, a percentage of your transaction, that would go to the U.N.
• A global tobacco tax with the funds to flow to the World Health Organization (WHO).
• A U.N.-imposed tax on billionaires all over the world. And don’t delude yourself for a moment that it is only the 1,600 current billionaires who will be hit. Once the precedent of a U.N. tax on U.S. citizens is approved, it will gradually grow downwards to cover more and more Americans. Again, the funds will go to the U.N.
• Under the Law of the Sea Treaty, up for Senate ratification in December of the lame-duck session, offshore oil-and-gas wells would have to pay a proportion of their revenues to the International Seabed Authority, a U.N.-sponsored organization, which would distribute the loot to the Third World.
• A carbon tax on all U.S. or other foreign commercial or passenger aircraft flying to Europe. Nominally to fight climate change, these revenues would also go to the Third World.
• A mandatory assessment to be imposed on the U.S. to compensate Third World nations for the costs of reducing their carbon output.

These taxes are, of course, only the first steps. Once the principle is established of U.N. taxation of American citizens, the sky is the limit.

Is there any organizations less worthy of our trust to spend our money wisely than the United Nations? Beset by almost constant scandal, bereft of any in-house oversight or even audit, the U.N. is one of the most corrupt of all international organizations. In Black helicopters, we document how pervasive this corruption really is.

And where would the money go? To so-called less developed countries. The taxes are part of a global plan of redistribution of wealth from the Northern Hemisphere (the U.S., Europe and Japan) to the Southern Hemisphere (Latin America, Africa and South Asia).

But don’t think that this flow of wealth will reduce poverty. Foreign aid doesn’t work. We explain in Black helicopters that it really just puts a pot of money on the table in Third World countries that automatically goes to whoever controls the presidential palace. Coups, civil wars, revolutions and all sorts of violence usually ensue as various factions, tribes or ethnic groups try to get their hands on the money. Real reduction in poverty can come only through foreign direct investment and trade, not via massive exports of Northern Hemisphere wealth to countries controlled by corrupt oligarchs.

Even a victory in the election of 2012 could avert the threat of rampant globalism. Obama and his lame-duck Senate will sign and try to ratify a broad range of global treaties to give away our sovereignty and expose us to U.N. taxation.

Here come the black helicopters!: UN global governance and the loss of freedom is a clarion warning call and a guide to saving our freedom while we still can! Read the book and join the battle for our liberty!


Morris, a former adviser to Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) and former President Clinton, is the author of 2010: Take Back America — A Battle Plan and Outrage, Fleeced and Catastrophe. To get all of his and Eileen McGann’s columns for free by email or to order a signed, advanced copy of his latest book Revolt!, go to dickmorris.com.
http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/d ... -americans
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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The biggest mis-conception is that Republicans would do any better. Bush's so called tax cuts were actually a tax deferment. Spending and borrowing increased. Both parties are corrupt. It doesn't matter who is in office, government continues to get bigger( think Homeland security, Mr. Bush).

That is why I thought it was such a joke people were calling it the most important election ever. I thought it was the most meaningless election ever.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Thomas wrote:As long as we have taxes, it seems there are two choices, have the rich pay their share or try to squeeze it all out of the poor and middle class. Unfortunatley, you can take every penny the poor have and it won't be near enough. That is why we have a deficet. The rich don't want to pay so we borrow instead.

Obama's policies favor the rich. He has threatened to make the rich pay their fair share but has not done so yet. Obama care is a way to make the rich richer.

Both parties favor the rich. Obama is a fake commie. He is really a crony capitalist.


Just cut the poor out of that statement. The poor in this country pay no net taxes. The rich also have a lot of dishonest methods for claiming to pay a lot of taxes. such as "their share" of payroll taxes such as SS, Medicare, etc. The idea that companies pay half of each persons SS is simply a semantic game so that they can claim that they pay millions in taxes. millionaires and billionaires are also the beneficiaries of some of the biggest tax credits, but still they perpetuate the lie that the top 5% pay 95% of the taxes.

The tax burden has always been born primarily by the middle class (when you talk total net taxes). The socialists want to destroy the middle class and leave a large class of poor dependent serfs being ruled over by a rich oligarchy of the top few percent.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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One party is Tax and Spend... the other is Borrow and Spend. Either way you are screwed.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Original_Intent wrote:The tax burden has always been born primarily by the middle class (when you talk total net taxes). The socialists want to destroy the middle class and leave a large class of poor dependent serfs being ruled over by a rich oligarchy of the top few percent.


There is only one Democratic Socialist in our government and that is Bernie Sanders, who I respect tremendously. His focus throughout his career has been building the middle class, so please stop with all the lying and Freudian projection. It's transparently false.

George
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Original_Intent wrote: The poor in this country pay no net taxes.


They also have no net money to pay taxes with. It's absurd to expect they can pay taxes with no money.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Gad wrote:One party is Tax and Spend... the other is Borrow and Spend. Either way you are screwed.


+1. As I have long stated the differences in the Democratic and Republican Parties, is one of magnitude, and not direction. They're both equally socialist. One merely wants Government to rob private industry and reward their friends with positions of prominence, and the other wants to reward their friends with positions of prominence to rob the private industry. Same bird, different wings.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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George Alabaster wrote:
Original_Intent wrote:The tax burden has always been born primarily by the middle class (when you talk total net taxes). The socialists want to destroy the middle class and leave a large class of poor dependent serfs being ruled over by a rich oligarchy of the top few percent.


There is only one Democratic Socialist in our government and that is Bernie Sanders, who I respect tremendously. His focus throughout his career has been building the middle class, so please stop with all the lying and Freudian projection. It's transparently false.

George


I completely agree with OI!

So you respect a self proclaimed democratic socialist...no surprise there ans speaks volumes! Yet you FALSELY ACCUSE Christ for being socialist and communist :))
Why don't you STOP with lying and projecting your crap onto Christ! You should change your avatar, it makes you look like a hypocrite! IF and I do mean IF Sanders tries anything to build the middle class it falls on the floor because EVIDENCE of what is going on with the middle class is PROOF! Plus dummer biden even said before the election that the middle class has been buried the last four years!
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Original_Intent wrote:Just cut the poor out of that statement. The poor in this country pay no net taxes.


Baloney, not everyone receives government handouts, and not everyone gets the kiddie credit. What are you defining as "Poor," and what are you defining as "net taxes?" Federal income tax? Maybe, but the average person in the U.S. last I saw, was close to 50% when all taxes were added up. Our house doesn't get the earned income credit for kids, and currently we pay nearly 6% of annual income on the property tax, alone. Another 3% or so in sales tax. EVERYONE pays property taxes, whether they own or rent, everyone pays sales taxes (so long as it exists in their state).

Whatever else your statements may have had in merit, the idea that the poor don't pay taxes is stupid, and a huge contribution to Romney's election loss.

The fact is that government needs to shrink, and ALL income taxes and socialist goodies be removed forthwith. But the idiotic meme of poor not paying taxes is getting old.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Is it the doctorine of Christ to use government to oppress the poor?
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Let alone the "inflation tax", which hurts the poor the most.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Thomas wrote:Is it the doctorine of Christ to use government to oppress the poor?


Depends which Christ we are talking about...

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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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George Alabaster wrote:
Thomas wrote:Is it the doctorine of Christ to use government to oppress the poor?


Depends which Christ we are talking about...

Image



Since neither of those is the Christ of the Bible, neither is particularly relevant. (Pick and choosing words out of context is poor to base a life philosophy upon).

But no, the Doctrine of Christ is not to oppress the poor, but it's not to redistribute (involuntarily) to them either. People are supposed to give to the poor what God has given them, but not have it taken from someone to do so.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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jdawg1012 wrote:But no, the Doctrine of Christ is not to oppress the poor, but it's not to redistribute (involuntarily) to them either. People are supposed to give to the poor what God has given them, but not have it taken from someone to do so.

I agree but why can't people see it probably even more wrong to use government to take from the poor and give to the rich. Prople can only see socialism when it benefits the poor. If government takes from the poor and gives to the rich, they will call it capatialism.

Example: Poor pereson buys gasoline. He pays approx. 10 percent to the federal government. A select few will get very wealthy off the money, and will be worshipped as job creators and wise capitalist.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Thomas wrote:I agree but why can't people see it probably even more wrong to use government to take from the poor and give to the rich. Prople can only see socialism when it benefits the poor. If government takes from the poor and gives to the rich, they will call it capatialism.

Example: Poor pereson buys gasoline. He pays approx. 10 percent to the federal government. A select few will get very wealthy off the money, and will be worshipped as job creators and wise capitalist.



No need to argue about which is worse. We should all just agree it's wrong to forcibly take from someone and give to someone else.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Thomas wrote:I agree but why can't people see it probably even more wrong to use government to take from the poor and give to the rich. Prople can only see socialism when it benefits the poor. If government takes from the poor and gives to the rich, they will call it capatialism.

Example: Poor pereson buys gasoline. He pays approx. 10 percent to the federal government. A select few will get very wealthy of the money, anjd will be worshipped as job creators and wise capitalist.


I don't think that capitalism is the problem. They're calling it "crony capitalism" these days, but its precisely what you said: Socialism. Both parties are doing it, and both are trying to give it fanciful names.

The fact is, socialism/wealth distribution is Satanism, plain and simple. There is a foundational "Law of the harvest": You reap what you sow.

That entails 3 basic laws.

1) If you sow substance A, you reap substance A, not B. ("You reap the fruit of what you sow.")
2) You cannot reap, if you have not sown. (There's no "something for nothing.")
3) If sow, you MUST reap. (For every action, there is a consequence, you cannot "Not reap.")

Communism/Socialism (same thing in practice), are founded upon Satan's attempt to undermine this fundamental law from God. Ie. You can reap where you have not sown, "you will not surely die" (you won't have consequences from poor financial decisions, or bad work ethic, "Everybody gets the same!"), and if you can do the wrong thing, but have desirable consequences stemming of that act.

This is the big lie, as old as the war in Heaven itself.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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Fairminded wrote:
Thomas wrote:I agree but why can't people see it probably even more wrong to use government to take from the poor and give to the rich. Prople can only see socialism when it benefits the poor. If government takes from the poor and gives to the rich, they will call it capatialism.

Example: Poor pereson buys gasoline. He pays approx. 10 percent to the federal government. A select few will get very wealthy off the money, and will be worshipped as job creators and wise capitalist.



No need to argue about which is worse. We should all just agree it's wrong to forcibly take from someone and give to someone else for any reason.


Exactly. People keep thinking that justice is to swing a pendulum from one side to another. The true solution is to get rid of the pendulum.
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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jdawg1012 wrote:But no, the Doctrine of Christ is not to oppress the poor, but it's not to redistribute (involuntarily) to them either. People are supposed to give to the poor what God has given them, but not have it taken from someone to do so.


It's fascinating which behavior we feel should be legislated against (homosexual) and which should not (helping the poor).

G
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Re: Why it's so important for the Democrats to raise taxes

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George Alabaster wrote:
jdawg1012 wrote:But no, the Doctrine of Christ is not to oppress the poor, but it's not to redistribute (involuntarily) to them either. People are supposed to give to the poor what God has given them, but not have it taken from someone to do so.


It's fascinating which behavior we feel should be legislated against (homosexual) and which should not (helping the poor).

G

Good point. The only reason socialism is wrong is because people are forced to do the right thing. Evidently, it's OK to force compliance of all other commandments.
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