katers wrote:Henmasher I think you missed the point. We aren't told to "judge not -- except in areas where you haven't sinned." We are simply told not to judge. And when you all start calling for this girl's bishop to take action, you are judging her.
I'm starting to get annoyed here. Why won't you judge me based on what I actually said rather than what I didn't? "Talk to the bishop" is significantly different than "the bishop had better do something". Am I really the only person on the planet who sees a difference between the two statements? (And while we're on the point of not judging others, when somebody - you know who you are - says that I am under eternal condemnation because I don't accept your analysis of things that is far closer to Oaks' "final judgments" than anything else that has been brought up on this thread. But of course nobody called you on it.)
You have singled out an individual. You can discuss modesty in dress and dance without doing so.
Yes. I singled out a person who sought out a national audience and go out of her way to be, in her words, "really sensual and sexy". Yes. I singled out a person who stated, again, on national TV, "When it comes to dancing I like being a woman and I think when I get up onto the stage I really need to bring that sexuality, that confidence.” Yes. I singled out an 18 year old who - with the full permission and encouragement of her parents (who are known personally by somebody on this board) has been working on being an 18 year old sex object for quite some time now.
But then to call out this girl on a public internet forum in the way that has been done is taking it too far.
It is one thing to call somebody out for private activities. It is quite another to discuss in a public forum the actions and statements of a public figure who is performing in a public forum. Is your suggestion that we bury our heads? Ignore it? Pretend that it doesn't exist? Or acknowledge that it is happening but everybody who doesn't support and condone must bite their tongues?
“You’ve got great technique, great legs, great feet, great back, and add to that this smockin’ hot face that is just performing – your dad is really gonna have to look after you young lady.” - this is an acceptable comment, right? THESE kinds of things can be said but nobody must ever dare challenge or contradict them. Nobody must ever speak out and say "hey - maybe we shouldn't be going out of our way to encourage teenagers to overly sexualize themselves". Is it ok to say that Brittney Spears was too sexy? Or is that going to keep me out of the celestial kingdom as well? Should we never say "Paris Hilton is a bad example for making a sex tape then leaking it so she could launch her career"?
Do you have kids? If/when you do, will you refuse to say "don't be like that person" because to do so would be unrighteous judgment? If you were present in the day, would you have told Samuel the Lamanite to keep quiet because to denounce activity in a public forum is some kind of egregious sin?
My opinion is that church standards are being violated when an 18 year old girl wearing breast-revealing lingerie (a costume that she personally selected for her audition so the claim that she "had" to wear that is absolutely false) while saying that she wants to highlight on sexuality. On an international stage. And in response I am told that unless I shut up and stop discussing the For the Strength Of Youth guidelines I am bringing "more condemnation" upon myself. More. As in I'm already condemned for discussing public figures. But THAT isn't judgment. Oh, no - it isn't judgment to say "God has condemned you" because, well, I can't figure out why it isn't. Or maybe it is judgment but it's the good kind of judgment so that makes it ok?