Power4Home/ Power4Patriots -- don't buy!

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BroJones
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Power4Home/ Power4Patriots -- don't buy!

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A friend of mine sent the link to Power4Home and asked,
So, I ask once again: is this "free energy" device real or not?

Rick
My answer:
I listened to the spiel, and a neighbor payed for the information, so I looked at that too.

First, it is not "zero-point" or "free energy". The "Power4" guy is talking about DIY solar panels and a wind turbine for your home. Very common stuff, but he is claiming you can do it yourself following his detailed instructions for less money. That's all, nothing new really.

Here's one comment I found about the claims --
Submitted by d landry on Fri, 08/17/2012 - 13:38

"My education is mechanical and electrical engineering. I have operated on a solar system for years for a cottage. Implying that you can heat a family house in Minnesota, let alone Seattle or SFO, in the winter, with a few homemade solar panels... purchased for $190 something dollars, is beyond misleading, it is fraudulent to the extreme. No mention of the first and most important of critical design spec??? 5KW 10KW 25KW? "
I totally agree. My neighbors paid about $97 (price now reduced to $49.97 if you HURRY!! see attached) for the information but when you look at it, it turns out to be very difficult to build your own wind turbine and solar panels. For example, he says buy 6" PVC pipe 24" long, easy, then cut it according to his drawing on pg. 4-17 across the length at an angle -- this is very difficult! Then there is the mounting of these blades on a hub, and balancing them. This is way beyond the typical DIY-er.

My friends were more interested in the solar panels. They checked his recommended sources for "cheap" (not finished) panels -- and they were no longer available. Dan said the sources this guy used have dried up or are not so readily available -- he check.

Had they been available, one still has to build frames and mount, rivet, encapsulate, solder and so on.

For example, p. 2-20: "...if you make any mistakes in the rivets placements you can remove the rivets with a drill." "If you have cut angles with a miter box and they still don't seem to align correctly when lined up with the carpenter's square then use a metal file and file it down to match correctly." "Take your time with this step, as the strength of the panel depends on good, tight rivet connections and flush angles."

Now, do you have a mitre box, metal file, drill, riveting tools? and lots of time? If you do, you can build your own solar panels! oops, there's more to do:

"The encapsulate you have already poured will help keep the cells in place while you do the final soldering. ... wire each string together in series with the bus ribbon... Wire the strings together with bus ribbon to ensure you have completed series connection through all 36 cells... Solder the bus ribbon on to connect each string to each other and then solder enough bus ribbon to the home runs to allow you to pull the bus ribbon through the bond paper and plastic back sheets and into the junction box that will be connected later on.... Once all 36 cells are completely wired together in series and the home runs have been made place another bead of caulk around the perimeter of the cells and just under the lip of the c-channel. This will prevent the encapsulate from oozing out the sides of the panel."

So how good are you at doing all this detail work, in order to save a few bucks on solar panels which you can buy already made at Harbor Freight? Do you really want to solder lots of wires together? and be careful: "Be careful soldering on top of the glass, as too much direct heat on the heat may crack or discolor the face of the panel." (direct quotes, pages 2-28, 29).

Got that? like the 37-minute advertisement says, "Easy!" yeah, right...
This guy has a racket going -- 102,000 sales of INFORMATION (better info on-line, free!) -- we see, at 50 bucks each -- a cool FIVE MILLION DOLLARS. Sure, there is a money back guarantee; but the salesman here limits it to 60 days.

Conclusion: rip-off.

Steve

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Rensai
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Re: Power4Home/ Power4Patriots -- don't buy!

Post by Rensai »

I agree, the internet is full of complaints about this "product". I've looked into this before too hoping that I could find an affordable way to get off the grid. So far I've found many scams like power4Home, but nothing legit. If you know of a reasonably affordable way to do this please share. :)

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BroJones
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Re: Power4Home/ Power4Patriots -- don't buy!

Post by BroJones »

Will do, Rensai. There are solar-power systems available, price is coming down, but still very costly for many of us.

Image below is from the 37-minute advertising spiel...

My neighbor just called -- she is going to try to get her money back! (about $97 in her case). I hope she succeeds in that!
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Power4HomePowerNazi.jpg
Power4HomePowerNazi.jpg (53.06 KiB) Viewed 7600 times

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BroJones
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Re: Power4Home/ Power4Patriots -- don't buy!

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Another scam is the Howard Johnson motor/generator; review by S. Allan at PESWIKI:
I can tell you with 100% certainty that the "The Johnson Motor" plans at http://johnsonmotor.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; being sold through ClickBank by johnmot12 are a SCAM.


Over-the-top Claims

Here are some of the totally bogus claims made in their landing page presentation:
• cost a little under $100 to make
• could power your house completely
• build in as little as 2 hours
• easy to build for a complete newbie
• changing thousands of lives
• sell power to the grid

You don't have to have a high IQ to see the blatant fallacy of these claims. It's super simple accounting. An inverter, alone, that enables grid tie, costs several hundred dollars, and that's one of the most cheap components in a home power capability. Not very many states will pay you for power you send back. It's the exception, not the rule. Just installing an already-built home power device takes several hours by highly-trained people. It's certainly not something "newbies" could do. Would you want "newbies" playing with kilowatts of electricity?

To use an analogy, it's like saying the average three-year-old could build a 7-tiered wedding cake in half an hour for just under $10 in supplies. Absurd. Overall, the claims are about as believable as Obama's birth certificate. No matter how much someone wants to believe it, it's a fraud, as anyone who honestly looks will see.

Howard Johnson himself did not have a robust device able to power a home. His unusually-shaped and composed magnets are very expensive (thousands of dollars) and difficult to source (China?). Some of the most brilliant people I know have been unsuccessful in replicating his device.

In the decade I've been tracking these things, I only know of one person allegedly powering an entire house with an all-magnet motor (2+ years continuous); and it wasn't based on Howard Johnson's design, and it cost in the region of $10,000 in parts. He values it at $150 million for someone to buy him out and take it to market, otherwise he'll do it himself, and he's not in a hurry.

That's the ONLY device I know of that is allegedly powering a house (I've not personally witnessed it). There aren't "thousands" of people out there powering their houses with such a technology. If there were, I would be the most likely person to know about it.

Here are a couple of ads they use on websites for their affiliates to send traffic to their sales page:
[see http://pesn.com/2012/03/17/9602058_Howa ... Clickbank/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ]


Obviously, that is not an actual photo of their alleged device. It is of a standard motor -- a stock photo they found somewhere on the web. Can you think for a second that that device could be built for less than $100 in parts sourced from the local hardware and electronics store, taking a couple of hours to build, and be assembled by "newbies"? That is an example of the over-the-top exaggerations made by this scam.
I looked into the Ho-Jo generator claims and agree.

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gkearney
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Re: Power4Home/ Power4Patriots -- don't buy!

Post by gkearney »

What are solar electrical systems for houses costing in the U.S.? Here in Australia where they are popular and have become rather mainstream it runs about $2000 installed. The utilities will not buy back your power here but the meters will run backwards giving you a credit on your electric bill. Over time this results in credits of many 100s of dollars. At this time that's acceptable to the utilities here but as these systems become more common, we get various tax breaks for installing them, something going to have to give. The utilities have fixed costs and if everyone is running credits on their bills the business model falls apart.

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BroJones
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Re: Power4Home/ Power4Patriots -- don't buy!

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gkearney wrote:What are solar electrical systems for houses costing in the U.S.? Here in Australia where they are popular and have become rather mainstream it runs about $2000 installed. The utilities will not buy back your power here but the meters will run backwards giving you a credit on your electric bill. Over time this results in credits of many 100s of dollars. At this time that's acceptable to the utilities here but as these systems become more common, we get various tax breaks for installing them, something going to have to give. The utilities have fixed costs and if everyone is running credits on their bills the business model falls apart.
$2000 for a full solar electrical system (SES) installed? that's pretty good! Does that include batteries? or just hooked into the grid?

So let's do some checking for the US (and elsewhere) -- how much are SES costing these days where you live? I have seen the cost of solar panels coming down, to close to $1/watt which for $2000 would be 2000W = 2 KW, marginal for a house in the US I think. And that's just for the panels.

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Re: Power4Home/ Power4Patriots -- don't buy!

Post by theblazingtruth »

They have made the cost high since 1970's so that people would have to stay on the grid... oil big oil and coal buy washington, Romney is big oil and coal also, they don't want
you independent.

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Money
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Gleen Beck

Post by Money »

Wasn't this advertise on Glenn Beck somewhere? If so, that confirms what I've felt for some time, he's taking advantage of us Mormons. He went from offering his tv program for free on Fox, with some commercials. Now, you pay $100+ a year for his tv program with even more commercials!

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gkearney
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Re: Power4Home/ Power4Patriots -- don't buy!

Post by gkearney »

DrJones wrote:
gkearney wrote:What are solar electrical systems for houses costing in the U.S.? Here in Australia where they are popular and have become rather mainstream it runs about $2000 installed. The utilities will not buy back your power here but the meters will run backwards giving you a credit on your electric bill. Over time this results in credits of many 100s of dollars. At this time that's acceptable to the utilities here but as these systems become more common, we get various tax breaks for installing them, something going to have to give. The utilities have fixed costs and if everyone is running credits on their bills the business model falls apart.
$2000 for a full solar electrical system (SES) installed? that's pretty good! Does that include batteries? or just hooked into the grid?

So let's do some checking for the US (and elsewhere) -- how much are SES costing these days where you live? I have seen the cost of solar panels coming down, to close to $1/watt which for $2000 would be 2000W = 2 KW, marginal for a house in the US I think. And that's just for the panels.

That price is for a 5kw system the most common here. As a rule most people do not have batteries but capacitors are popular. Most household with solar systems endup not paying any electric bills. Most of Our pannels are made in Australia it has become a rather thriving business here.

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Rensai
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Re: Power4Home/ Power4Patriots -- don't buy!

Post by Rensai »

gkearney wrote:
DrJones wrote:
gkearney wrote:What are solar electrical systems for houses costing in the U.S.? Here in Australia where they are popular and have become rather mainstream it runs about $2000 installed. The utilities will not buy back your power here but the meters will run backwards giving you a credit on your electric bill. Over time this results in credits of many 100s of dollars. At this time that's acceptable to the utilities here but as these systems become more common, we get various tax breaks for installing them, something going to have to give. The utilities have fixed costs and if everyone is running credits on their bills the business model falls apart.
$2000 for a full solar electrical system (SES) installed? that's pretty good! Does that include batteries? or just hooked into the grid?

So let's do some checking for the US (and elsewhere) -- how much are SES costing these days where you live? I have seen the cost of solar panels coming down, to close to $1/watt which for $2000 would be 2000W = 2 KW, marginal for a house in the US I think. And that's just for the panels.

That price is for a 5kw system the most common here. As a rule most people do not have batteries but capacitors are popular. Most household with solar systems endup not paying any electric bills. Most of Our pannels are made in Australia it has become a rather thriving business here.
Do you have links? I just did some quick searching for australian solar power kits and the average is about 10k for a 5kw system. I even found an article saying much the same, and thats with government rebates. Still, its a lot better than what most the kits are going for here in the US. Ours are more like 20-30k.
In Australia, the average retail price of a standard solar PV system installation of reasonable quality currently stands at just above $2 per watt, after federal government solar rebates are taken into account. This means that at the time of writing, the cost of such a 5kW solar system is just around $11,000–less than half of what it would have been 4 years ago.

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gkearney
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Re: Power4Home/ Power4Patriots -- don't buy!

Post by gkearney »

They advertise on tv all the time with the $2000 price I'll get the URL next time I see it.

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Re: Power4Home/ Power4Patriots -- don't buy!

Post by tominfl »

In 1986 I retired from a career in electronics and military and medical laser development. Five years ago I studied, designed, purchased, installed a working (2007-2013) 5KW solar power generation system for my home . This 5 Kw system produces about 1/2 to 1/3 of the power we (2 of us) need to live conservatively. I also bought his $27 book when studying the solar generation info. This man describes doing something which will make 90% of his customers very disappointed. Too small to be meaningful, not practical to build from scratch for the average person to ever possibly "get off the grid," the numbers just don't work. We use between 600 and 1500 KWhrs per month from Florida Power here in central FL after subtracting (net metering) the amount our 5 KW system generates on the average day -- about 20KWhr per day or 600 KWhr per month. To get off the grid I would have to double my solar output and stop A/C comfort. My system's cost was $24,500 for parts plus 2,000 for contract labor, in 2007. Prices have dropped since then. But the cost to have this system as a turn key job was bid at over $45, 000 in 2007. So, if you built what he descripbes, how can you hope to do more than run one refrgerator or some lights. To convert Photocell DC electric to AC for home use runs between $2,500 and $6,000 for the inverter alone. Batteries to only take you through one or two days without full sun will cost $2,000 to $4,000 You can't build any of these in the size required and I wouldn't call even that "grid independant". Be independant from the grid? Nah!

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