Could so called "Dark Matter" really be Spiritual matter????

[KalelIsbell]

I have been watching shows and reading about the universe, I find Gods creations awe inspiring. But I always come across scientist who can’t explain the gravitational pull and influence on the rest of the known physical matter, science cannot find this matter or explain what it is, so they call it dark matter. while I was watching one of these science shows, most of which is dumb science (the saying come to me “Knowledge without Wisdom is Foolishness”), the thought came to me that the matter that they can’t find is spiritual matter; and that it is more refined and not visible to us but still excerpts a force of our physical matter, the scientist say that dark matter constitutes 80% of the matter in the universe, while ordinary matter makes up only 20%. Do any of you out there have any thoughts or something to add that my shed some light on this for me…

[pjbrownie]

My brother the physicist thinks so. There is also dark energy that is associated with dark matter. The interesting this is if energy is exhibited at one end of the universe, the harmonics of that energy is felt at the other end of the universe. Don't ask me how they know that. The important thing is that dark energy travels instantaneously over dark matter, no need for speed of light constraints. It also helps one understand how God the Holy Ghost may be omni-present, or omniscient, everywhere at once.

[SempiternalHarbinger]

I never bought into what our history books, and scientist teach us, especially about space and the Universe. This is an area where Satan has worked overtime. You convince the world that there was a beginning it means there has to be an end. This contradicts everything in the scriptures. In fact, mainstream science contradicts everything in the scriptures. If scientist don't know what over 99% of the universe is created of and the are wrong about the big bang, how planets are created, how are sun operates, it makes me think, just how much do they really know or how much they don't know. What if they are wrong all together? I believe there is zero truth in what we are taught about the heavens. Something i recommend checking out is "Thunderbolts of the Gods" on google video. or anything on the electric universe or plasma cosmology. I think it is more on tract than anything we are thought.

As for Dark Matter being Spiritual Matter..... There is no evidence whatsoever that dark matter, dark energy, and black holes even exist. They made these Words and phrases up to fill in the many gaps to support there weak theory about gravity holding the universe together. =)) Without these lies and made up concepts,there theories are garbage. So they have create something invisible to support there lies. They can't have that happen. So to say dark matter is spiritual matter is wrong. There is no such thing as dark matter.

[2wet2burn]

I read Joseph Smith as Scientist by Widstoe. It talks about this very thing. I had a lot of fun researching concepts because of it. If you can find it, you'll enjoy what you learn.

[KalelIsbell]

I read Joseph Smith as Scientist by Widstoe. It talks about this very thing. I had a lot of fun researching concepts because of it. If you can find it, you'll enjoy what you learn.

where can i find this book??

[EmmaLee]

where can i find this book??

Amazon.com - many copies of several editions to be found there.

[EmmaLee]

Something i recommend checking out is "Thunderbolts of the Gods" on google video. or anything on the electric universe. I think it is more on tract than anything we are thought.

I agree wholeheartedly! Here are some websites well worth looking into on the subject -

http://www.thunderbolts.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mormonprophecy.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://web.me.com/kipfarr1/KipWorld/Welcome.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.holoscience.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.electricuniverse.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Darren]

Energy is intelligence. Energy as it is organized, by forces that can organize, as that intelligence becomes organized, by manifesting that organization as a type of Energy, Quality and Matter. The most simple or principle level is the most infinitely elemental energy. An intelligence destined to be a human spirit is of a particular type or organization of Energy, God and only God can differentiate them, just like one magnate is attracted to another. God being endowed with organizing power organizes that intelligence into a being of Quality, a spirit. If that intelligence, now also a spirit, keeps true to it's design and inherent plan, by choosing to continue to be driven by its type and design, by continuing to seek the everlasting intelligence of God, as it did as an intelligence, in the face of all persuasion by the adversary, then it has kept it's first estate. Intelligence organized as spirits and keeping their first estate are, by God again organized, via his plan of happiness, to be given a mortal/material existence. That mortal/material existence receives a fullness of design, by doing what is inherent to its intelligence's type, drive and plan, if then continuing as this composite being of intelligence/spirit/mortal, by seeking God, then God gives to that being his organizing power.

Energy or Intelligence that is of some other inherent destination will not become spirit, man or god, but may be acted upon by stronger and more organized intelligence, the Energy of some other type occupies all dimensions and space, manifesting their inherent drive, type and plan.

It would not be appropriate to speculate or say that energy, as perceived by man's limited material view, is energy of any spiritual or intelligent type. Although material eyes can see material types, spiritual eyes can see spiritual types and the sense inherent in the intelligence can be attracted or repelled by an inherently sensory means.

God Bless,
Darren

[creator]

@KalelIsbell, reminds me of some things I've heard from W. Cleon Skousen and others...

The Lord said that the thing which "acts " is called an intelligence and that which is acted upon" is called "element" or primal mater. He said these building blocks always existed. They are eternal. (D&C 93:29,33) They cannot be created and they cannot be destroyed, But they can be organized, DISorganized and REorganized.

I recommend that you listen to Skousen's talk on the meaning of the atonement.

[KalelIsbell]

Brian,
I love that talk by W. Cleon Skousen in fact it is one of my favorites. :ymhug:
But are you saying that intelligence is the missing “matter” (for use of a better word) that is acting on the known physical matter?
I know alot of this is deep and not really important to our salvation, but I find it fasinating so thanks for being interested as well.. :-B

Also I have just bought the book from Amazon.com “Joseph Smith as Scientist by Widstoe” so thanks for that information. I can’t wait to read it. I will also look into the video that a few of you have recommended.
Thanks for the directions into these areas

[nvr]

"Birkeland currents are drawn toward each other in a linear relationship, with a long-range attraction potential 39 orders of magnitude greater than gravity. Dark matter and dark energy influences can be dismissed when electric currents flowing through dusty plasma are recognized as that which energizes and sustains clusters, galaxies, and stars."

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2010/ ... minate.htm

I'm not much of a big poster, but saw this topic and thought I'd interject. I think plasma cosmology (a recognized discipline within the electrical engineering profession through the Institute for Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE)) does a much better job of explaining the quirks of our universe without having to resort to gimmicks such as dark matter to equalize orbital equations. From what I understand, the universe is like 99% plasma by mass - it exists between galaxies and electrically connects them all. The phenomenon we witness can be explained using the physical principles of plasma and electromagnetic interactions between charged bodies (galaxies stars and planets). This is a pretty good intro to the topic:http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=wxse6f8q

Seeing how God follows his own laws I do wonder what would constitute spiritual matter.

[nvr]

Something i recommend checking out is "Thunderbolts of the Gods" on google video. or anything on the electric universe. I think it is more on tract than anything we are thought.

I agree wholeheartedly! Here are some websites well worth looking into on the subject -

http://www.thunderbolts.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mormonprophecy.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://web.me.com/kipfarr1/KipWorld/Welcome.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.holoscience.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.electricuniverse.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whoa, just realized the plasma cosmology topic was already brought up.
Great info there, agreed.

[creator]

Brian,
I love that talk by W. Cleon Skousen in fact it is one of my favorites. :ymhug:
But are you saying that intelligence is the missing “matter” (for use of a better word) that is acting on the known physical matter?
I know alot of this is deep and not really important to our salvation, but I find it fasinating so thanks for being interested as well.. :-B

I also find this stuff to be fascinating

Yes, I am saying that perhaps this missing matter referred to as "dark matter" could very well be the intelligence that exists in all matter. It's the aspect of matter that science hasn't figured out how to measure or detect, but they seem be realizing that there is something there.

Like you said it could also be the spiritual realm that exists all around us. We know that the spirit world is here on earth, it's all around us, so that could be part of it too, but I would lean much more towards thinking that "intelligence" is "dark matter", because it's much more interconnected and part of all physical things.

[rlyman44]

Is dark matter what black holes are made out of? I've always been curious about black holes. They are at the center of galaxies - near the brightest portions of each galaxy. They are filled with very dense matter. I've always kind of thought that you could make a lot of worlds out of whatever is in a black hole. Could they be the building materials used by the Gods? Just a possibility I've thought about a little.

[HeirofNumenor]

Is dark matter what black holes are made out of? I've always been curious about black holes. They are at the center of galaxies - near the brightest portions of each galaxy. They are filled with very dense matter. I've always kind of thought that you could make a lot of worlds out of whatever is in a black hole. Could they be the building materials used by the Gods? Just a possibility I've thought about a little.

"Earth: In the Beginning" by Eric N. Skousen, P.h.D has a good discussion of this. Dr. Skousen draws heavily from his grandfather Cleon's teachings. The Skousens give an interesting discussion of this point: dark dust clouds surrounding the center of the Milky Way is a shield that prevents the blazing glory of God, Kolob, and other celestialized planets from destroying everything in the rest of the galaxy.

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

All things have matter or they don't exist. We cannot see spirit matter by any earthly means, ergo it is dark to us. Not hard really, rather common sense. Neutrinos are in and through all things.... No mystery here.

[davedan]

I think "dark matter" is molecular hydrogen (H2). As light passes through this molecular hydrogen it is redshifted. This would mean the universe is not accelerating apart. When light passes by massive stars and galaxies, it is blueshifted.

Solar wind is protons and electrons or ionized hydrogen (H = 1 p + 1 e).

[iamse7en]

Energy is intelligence. Energy as it is organized, by forces that can organize, as that intelligence becomes organized, by manifesting that organization as a type of Energy, Quality and Matter. The most simple or principle level is the most infinitely elemental energy. An intelligence destined to be a human spirit is of a particular type or organization of Energy, God and only God can differentiate them, just like one magnate is attracted to another. God being endowed with organizing power organizes that intelligence into a being of Quality, a spirit. If that intelligence, now also a spirit, keeps true to it's design and inherent plan, by choosing to continue to be driven by its type and design, by continuing to seek the everlasting intelligence of God, as it did as an intelligence, in the face of all persuasion by the adversary, then it has kept it's first estate. Intelligence organized as spirits and keeping their first estate are, by God again organized, via his plan of happiness, to be given a mortal/material existence. That mortal/material existence receives a fullness of design, by doing what is inherent to its intelligence's type, drive and plan, if then continuing as this composite being of intelligence/spirit/mortal, by seeking God, then God gives to that being his organizing power.

Energy or Intelligence that is of some other inherent destination will not become spirit, man or god, but may be acted upon by stronger and more organized intelligence, the Energy of some other type occupies all dimensions and space, manifesting their inherent drive, type and plan.

It would not be appropriate to speculate or say that energy, as perceived by man's limited material view, is energy of any spiritual or intelligent type. Although material eyes can see material types, spiritual eyes can see spiritual types and the sense inherent in the intelligence can be attracted or repelled by an inherently sensory means.

God Bless,
Darren

Darren, you are spot on. I believe we have read similar things on intelligence.

[Darren]

The highest order of intelligence is intelligence endowed with the organizing power. The atonement provided that endowment to be available to all mankind.

Christ is called the anointed one, that is what Messiah means. At the foundations of the plan, God the Father put that anointing, that organizing power, upon Jesus, and we shouted for joy, because that was the first step for us all to become like God.

From that anointing by God, Christ had within himself that organizing power, but not until the atonement, that culminated from his experiences of suffering in the garden and then hanging on the cross, and when he said, "It is finished," could that organizing power be made available to mankind. That power within himself, that was anointed upon him, produced and activated in such a way, through that suffering and intense pain, as if in a pressure cooker, was produced for us, and became available to those of us from without of Himself. With that highest order of organizing, with whom God can also anoint the sons and daughters of Adam, as Gods and Goddesses.

The Fruit of the resurrection is that gift from God produced by Christ into what makes available to mankind the organizing power, by which they may have a fullness.

God Bless,
Darren

[sbsion]

Energy is intelligence. Energy as it is organized, by forces that can organize, as that intelligence becomes organized, by manifesting that organization as a type of Energy, Quality and Matter. The most simple or principle level is the most infinitely elemental energy. An intelligence destined to be a human spirit is of a particular type or organization of Energy, God and only God can differentiate them, just like one magnate is attracted to another. God being endowed with organizing power organizes that intelligence into a being of Quality, a spirit. If that intelligence, now also a spirit, keeps true to it's design and inherent plan, by choosing to continue to be driven by its type and design, by continuing to seek the everlasting intelligence of God, as it did as an intelligence, in the face of all persuasion by the adversary, then it has kept it's first estate. Intelligence organized as spirits and keeping their first estate are, by God again organized, via his plan of happiness, to be given a mortal/material existence. That mortal/material existence receives a fullness of design, by doing what is inherent to its intelligence's type, drive and plan, if then continuing as this composite being of intelligence/spirit/mortal, by seeking God, then God gives to that being his organizing power.
Energy or Intelligence that is of some other inherent destination will not become spirit, man or god, but may be acted upon by stronger and more organized intelligence, the Energy of some other type occupies all dimensions and space, manifesting their inherent drive, type and plan.
It would not be appropriate to speculate or say that energy, as perceived by man's limited material view, is energy of any spiritual or intelligent type. Although material eyes can see material types, spiritual eyes can see spiritual types and the sense inherent in the intelligence can be attracted or repelled by an inherently sensory means.
God Bless,
Darren

Nope

[iamse7en]

I just read this quote while going through Drew Briney's book and I thought of this thread:

"In the resurrection, men who have been faithful and diligent in all things in the flesh, have kept their first and second estate, and worthy to be crowned Gods, even the sons of God, will be ordained to organize matter. How much matter do you suppose there is between here and some of the fixed stars which we can see? Enough to frame many, very many millions of such earths as this, yet it is now so diffused, clear and pure, that we look through it and behold the stars" (Brigham Young, JD 15:137, Saturday p.m. 8/24/1872).

Then Drew had a footnote: "As an interesting side note - scientists have only recently discovered, relatively speaking, that there is a significant amount of matter in space - in places where they previously believed no matter existed - they refer to it as "dark matter" because they cannot see it - they have only been able to prove it exists because it bends light."

So another theory regarding "dark matter," could be that it is unorganized matter. If true, the name is fitting because it has yet to be associated with light or energy needed to organize it into something, therefore is currently 'dark' or diffused, so that we can look through it and behold the stars. I know nothing of the science, but it's food for thought.

[AshleyB]

I personally agree with the thought that there is matter we cant behold with our earthly eyes. We already know that. But I also think modern Physicists are wrong about many things. They assume the weaker force of gravity controls the universe and is mainly in charge of creating things. They dont account for other greater forces the way they ought. Wouldn't it make more since that Electro Magnetism and Electricity as a whole has more to do with creations then the weaker force of Gravity? Seems to make sense to me. Personally I feel that Electricity is the life giving spark throughout the Universe. And when I think about it, I think that Electricity is one of the forms of God's Power if not the form. My Anatomy and Physiology teacher talked about how the heart and body has an "electrical" side to it that keeps it running. And that the heart is started with an "electrical" sort of spark but that science cannot explain where this life "spark" comes from. I feel like just how we get our light here on earth through Electricity in space is works the same just on larger scales. Scientists are now finally admitting that their current model of the sun as a nuclear reactor that produces its energy through nuclear fusion is flawed and doesn't explain so many things and that they now think that the sun has an iron core. And if thats the case the implications for current theory's about star formation and death have some serious problems. But there are many things about current theory's that have problems. But the model of the electric Universe fits in nicely with observable phenomena and through plasma physics many of the newer theory's regarding the electric Universe are being proven and are scalable in the laboratory. Interestingly enough the restored Gospel and the teaching of Joseph Smith seem to fit extremely nicely with plasma physics and the electric universe model. If you really want to have your mind blown and be opened up to more understandings then check out Anthony E. Larsons Website: http://www.mormonprophecy.com/prophecy, ... el_002.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is an example of a monograph from his blog although when I copied and pasted the wonderful pictures that went along with it didnt copy and paste to so you will have to go to his blog to really see the pictures and understand what he is talking about. I'll post a few videos of his as well for anyone who is interested.

Prophets and Plasmas
“It is the thunderbolt that steers the universe,” wrote the Greek philosopher Heraclitus. Today’s scholars and scientists dismiss such statements as simpleminded nonsense, based in ignorance.

But, as we have seen, electricity probably plays a far greater role in the universe than modern science recognizes. What if Heraclitus actually knew much more than we do about the nature of the power that organizes and drives the universe?

To illustrate this notion, let’s look at a glaring example from history.

Zeus throwing a thunderbolt

Notice the object Greek sculptors put in Zeus’ hand.



No, it’s not a football or a stalk of corn. The Greek sources tell us this was the appearance of those fabled thunderbolts Zeus was said to have launched from Olympus, the sacred mountain on which he resided. Clearly, it looks nothing like anything we would call a thunderbolt. Yet the Greeks were unwavering. These, they insisted, were thunderbolts. There were many variations, but none of them look like a bolt of lightning to our eyes.

More thunderbolts

The most elementary form was that of a simple missile with a corkscrew configuration.


Numerous illustrations of the weapon show it sending forth leaf-like sepals, then “flowering” into a lotus form. The petals of the lotus/thunderbolt are also elaborated in tradition as horns or wings, a fact that appears absurd today, until we perceive the underlying structure.



Though they differ somewhat, these patterns are, in fact, surprisingly consistent. And that consistency is a vital key to understanding what we see in these sculptures.

So, what are these thunderbolts of the gods?

To answer that question, we must look to a surprising source: the most recent images of similar features in distant galaxies and stars. We must also consider the nature of something called plasma and its electrical properties.

Plasma and electricity

Plasma permeates space. Our entire Milky Way galaxy consists mainly of plasma. It is the fourth state of matter. We are all familiar with the first three, most common states of matter: gas, liquid and solid. We experience them every day. Yet, we are also surrounded with plasmas, though we don’t recognize them for what they are. In fact 99% of the entire universe is plasma!

An electrical plasma is a cloud of ions (positively charged particles) and electrons (negatively charged particles) that can sometimes light up and behave in some unusual ways when ‘excited’ or activated by applying electrical and magnetic fields. The most familiar examples of electrical plasmas on Earth are the neon sign, lightning, and the electric arc welding machine. The ionosphere of Earth is an example of a plasma that does not emit visible light. Fire is a plasma. The cloud of particles that constitutes the solar “wind” is a plasma.

Birkeland

During the late 1800’s, a Norwegian physicist, Kristian Birkeland, explained that the reason we could see Earth’s polar auroras was that they were plasmas. Birkeland also discovered the twisted corkscrew-shaped paths taken by electric currents in plasmas.

Plasma behavior continues to astonish the specialists who study it, and it is radically different from the familiar behavior of solids, liquids, and gasses. It is self-organizing, paring into filaments that intertwine or ‘braid’ into pairs that attract each other at long distances and repel each other at short distances.



Sometimes those twisted shapes are visible and sometimes not — that depends on the strength and the current density being carried by the plasma. Today these braided streams of ions and electrons are called “Birkeland currents” after their discoverer. The mysterious “sprites”, “elves”, and “blue jets” associated with electrical storms on Earth are examples of Birkeland currents in the plasma of our upper atmosphere.

In a plasma, these filaments evolve into braided ropes that can act as electrical transmission lines, much as braided, twisted cable is used to carry electrical power to our homes. As a practical matter, we’ve learned that wound or braded cable carries electricity more efficiently. The apparent reason is that this is the natural configuration for electrical current, as discovered by Birkeland.

Birkland currents form braided filaments

On a cosmic scale, that means they can carry electric power across galactic and intergalactic space, while organizing and driving secondary systems, including stars and planets. Electric current in space, passing through plasma, will take on the corkscrew (spiral) shape discovered by Birkeland (see above).

There are three distinctly different steady state modes in which plasma can operate:

Dark Current Mode - The strength of the electrical current (flow of charged particles) within the plasma is very low. The plasma does not glow. It is essentially invisible. We would not know plasma was there at all unless we measured its electrical activity with sensitive instruments. The present day magnetospheres of the planets are examples of plasmas operating in the dark current mode, as are the giant, but quite indiscernible, Birkland currents that carry the prodigious power throughout the galaxy to light our sun and all the stars.

Normal Glow Mode - The strength of the electrical current (flow of charged particles) is significant. The entire plasma glows. The brightness of the glow depends on the intensity of the current in the plasma. Examples are any neon sign, emission nebulae and the Sun’s corona.

Arc Mode - The strength of the electrical current in the plasma is very high. The plasma radiates brilliantly over a wide spectrum. Current tends to form twisting filaments. Examples of this mode of operation are an electric arc welding machine, lightning or the Sun’s photosphere.

Such filaments have already been discovered in our own solar system. For example, it is known that million ampere currents flowing down the Earth’s magnetic field lines at the northern and southern poles cause the Earth’s aurora to glow. A similar glowing vortex, astronomers dubbed a “flux tube,” was found by planetary explorer spacecraft to connect the planet Jupiter with its closest satellite, Io.

Langmuir

In the early 20th century, Nobel laureate Irving Langmuir studied electric plasmas in his laboratory at General Electric. He further developed the body of knowledge Birkeland had pioneered and was the first to use the name ‘plasma’ to describe the almost lifelike, self-organizing behavior of these ionized gas clouds in the presence of electrical currents and magnetic fields.

Langmuir identified a plasma phenomenon called a “double layer,” a boundary that forms around charged objects immersed in plasma. This boundary, now called a “Langmuir sheath,” surrounds our planet. Invisible to the naked eye, it electrically isolates our world from the Sun’s plasma, called the solar wind, and interacts with it in ways we have yet to fully understand.

Laboratory experiments and simulations on supercomputers reveal that plasma discharge formations, under the influence of electric currents, are remarkably similar to formations observed in remote space. The patterns of plasma behavior are said to be scalable. That is, a high energy electric discharge in plasma will produce the same formations irrespective of the size of the event. The same basic patterns will be seen at laboratory, planetary, stellar, and galactic levels.

Duration is proportional to size as well. A spark that lasts for milliseconds in the laboratory may persist for years at planetary or stellar scales, or for thousands of years at galactic or intergalactic scales.


Because Birkeland currents most often occur in pairs, they tend to compress between them any material (ionized or not) in the plasma. This is called the “z-pinch” effect. Thus, when we look at nebulas in space such as the one pictured above, we are looking at glowing plasma — a celestial thunderbolt of prodigious size — showing the z-pinch effect on a galactic scale.

The most striking feature of the central part of this nebula is its polar symmetry, looking much like those Greek “thunderbolts” pictured on the first page. The central ‘neck’ is where the galactic electrical currents, “pinch” down to create the hourglass figure.

Once again in the photo above, we see the similarities between galactic plasma structures and the lotus-like illustrations from ancient art of the gods’ thunderbolt weapons.


These shapes are uncannily similar to those of Zeus’ thunderbolts drawn by ancient astronomers because such electric phenomena are scalable through several orders of magnitude.

That is, microcosmic or macrocosmic, they always take on the same appearance. They exhibit the same forms and characteristics whether the discharge occurs over a fraction of a millimeter in a laboratory, over thousands of kilometers in Earth’s heavens or across many light-years in the galaxy. In fact, computerized simulations of high-energy electrical discharges in the laboratory indicate that the same patterns can be scaled up yet another 100 million times to galactic size.

A revised view of the past heavens

In the electric model, the actual history of our solar system does not resemble the currently accepted theories of the sciences. Abbreviated “first glimpses” of these discoveries may provoke incredulity, shock, and irritation. Therefore, the reader must be asked to suspend all prior beliefs on the subject, including matters thought to have been settled decades, or even centuries ago in order to give this evidence a proper hearing.

The implications of these new discoveries for aiding in our understanding the scriptures are profound.

The Roman historian Tacitus wrote that the catastrophe of Sodom and Gomorrah was caused by a thunderbolt — the plain was “consumed by lightning.” And he added, “Personally I am quite prepared to grant that once-famous cities may have been burnt by fire from heaven.” Also Josephus asserted that the cities had been “consumed by thunderbolts.” Philo wrote that “lightnings poured out of heaven,” destroying the cities.

Such observations dovetail with the Greek traditions of thunderbolts. Accounts in scripture of what might otherwise be considered ‘miraculous’ become understandable phenomena, without detracting from the gospel message they also convey.

In the later years of his life, Nobel Laureate Hannes Alfven, the founder of plasma science, reached a startling conclusion about the nature of the universe. He said that today’s gravitational systems are the “ashes” of prior electrical systems. This remarkable idea and the revelations we’ve seen about plasmas in a near Earth environment requires that we read our scriptures from an entirely new perspective, however unnerving. It raises the possibility that the ancient heavens looked nothing like the skies we see now, and accounts of events from that time must be re-read with this new perspective to more fully appreciate the message they contain.

This is the new perspective Latter-day Saints should keep in mind while re-reading their scriptures — not only prophetic passages but historic accounts such as Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price. These can only be fully understood when read with the following in mind:

As recently as several thousand years ago, planets moved under the influence of electrified plasma, a medium that can easily overwhelm gravity. Orbits changed, and catastrophic electrical encounters altered the terrain, the climates, and the atmospheres of planets, including our Earth.

Though the duration of instability is unknown, the final episodes of catastrophe occurred in the time of our early ancestors, who witnessed celestial wonders beyond anything imagined today. Charged planets and moons were held in a close array by electrical forces and were seen as huge spheres in the sky. In periods of instability, plasma discharges passed between planets, capturing the obsessive attention of human witnesses. Ancient sky worshippers observed the resulting plasma configurations as these discharges mutated from one unstable phase to another, seemingly alive, intelligent and habitually combative. It was such events, often earthshaking, earsplitting and terrifying, that supplied the raw content of world mythology and inspired the great religious and symbolic traditions of antiquity.

Claims for such a scenario can be substantiated by comparing the forms taken by plasmas in the laboratory and the symbolic religious art of antiquity — etched on tomb and temple walls, carved on rock, illustrated on religious icons and even painstakingly embedded in vast landforms.

Plasma forms in sacred art worldwide

Plasma physicist Anthony Peratt, the foremost authority in the world on the forms exhibited by laboratory plasmas under the influence of electrical forces, recognized this ancient form of iconography as illustrations of plasmas in space, much as we have identified the thunderbolts of the Greek gods as plasma. That is, Peratt insists that what looks to our eyes as though they were myth-inspired icons, nonsensical doodling or just plain gibberish are actually accurate representations — facsimiles in stone, if you will — of what the ancients saw in their skies. He points out that he has seen all these same forms in plasmas generated in his lab experiments at Los Alamos National Laboratories.



What follows is only a minute sampling of Peratt’s published work, comparing ancient rock art with laboratory experiments and simulations on supercomputers of plasma discharge formations under the influence of electric currents. You will agree that the similarities are stunning.



These are graphic representations of one plasma configuration produced in Peratt’s laboratory that he affirms gave rise the examples of rock art from around the world seen below that he calls “squatter man.”




Note that the squatting position illustrated above is strongly reminiscent of the posture or stance taken by Polynesians in their sacred ritual dances and by Hindu ritual dancers, a connection not previously made by anthropologists.

These images suggest two other possibilities for interpretive use beyond the more common squatting figure. The many arms of the Hindu god, Shiva and the spider, found on the plain of Nazca in Peru
are likely derivatives of the same plasma image.

Most of the symbols and petroglyphs found the world over are probably illustrations of things seen in Earth’s heavens anciently, further demonstrating the universality of these images, as in this Chinese glyph.

This worldwide commonality argues convincingly that there is only one place all ancient cultures could have seen these images: in Earth’s ancient skies.

Another plasma arrangement discovered in the laboratory by Peratt is here illustrated below.


Called a “Peratt Instability,” this plasma configuration takes the shape of a stack of donuts. These graphic and computer generated illustrations of experimentally created plasmas look remarkably like the mythic “backbone of god.”

A multitude of petroglyphs appear to depict Peratt’s stacked toruses. These are only a few among thousands of such examples. So all those squiggly drawings on rocks were based in rock-solid reality.

The stacked toruses, seen from an oblique angle, also took on the appearance of the mythical “chain of arrows.” These can be seen in similar illustrations from sacred art of widely separated cultures.

Heretofore inexplicable rock art that was generally thought to have no basis in the physical world can now be seen as a heroic attempt by ancient cultures to record the plasma phenomenon they saw in the heavens, something they considered to be sacred imagery.

Without the insight these plasma configurations offer, anthropologists are at a loss to explain the origin or the motivation for such bizarre images. They frankly admit that the meaning of such glyphs is a mystery, such as the Egyptian illustration below.

Yet, when seen in light of cutting edge plasma science, the explanation is quite simple, though unexpected. These were things seen overhead in Earth’s ancient heavens. Those that saw them felt compelled to record what they saw in order to preserve what they considered to be sacred. These petroglyph sites were subsequently considered sacred as well, a place to recall the images of the gods and perform rituals.

A more complete and elaborate version of the Peratt Instability is seen here (left) in a computer simulation of an actual plasma experiment in the laboratory.

Compare it to a reproduction of an Arizona petroglyph (right).
The correlation is stunning, and it leaves no doubt about the original subject for this Native American petroglyph.

The computer simulation (left) shows where the increase in current strength begins to “warp at the edges.” The petroglyph (right), precisely reflects those same details. Like the “squatter man” seen above, this is clearly an illustration in stone of a plasma configuration seen in the heavens.

Peratt identifies the parts of the stone glyph that correspond to those elements of a Peratt Instability (below).


Taking a closer view at the torus seen at the base of the Peratt Instability, we see an entirely new figure.

This plasma image (left) figures prominently in the mythology of the past, where it was call the “sky mask,” giving rise to the universal practice of wearing masks in conjunction with religious ceremonies and stacked divinity icons in “totems.” The obvious relationship of these plasma images to sacred imagery leads to only one conclusion: Earth’s ancient inhabitants recorded by every means possible what they could see in the skies above them during an epoch of intense electrical plasma activity in the heavens.

Coming full circle

Having only briefly explored the nascent field of plasma science and its relationship to ancient iconography, there is only one more comparison to make in order to complete our journey.

Like the thunderbolt wielding Greek god, Zeus, the Sumerian god Ninurta is said to have thrown thunderbolts across heaven as he battled the celestial monster, Anzu. A side-by-side comparison of the Sumerians’ illustration of their god’s weapon (far left) with one of Peratt’s electrical “hourglass” formations in plasma (near left) puts a lock on the thesis of this paper.

A cross-cultural comparison of celestial thunderbolts, as in the Hindu vajra (top) and the Greek thunderbolt (bottom) reveals a whole new perspective of the religious iconography of the past and its unexpected, but exciting, connection to plasma physics.

And a comparison of a variety of Greek thunderbolt images (nine images below) to some primary plasma constructs seen in computer simulations of laboratory plasma (five images below) leaves little doubt what the ancient Greeks saw.

The astounding relevance of plasma phenomenon in space to the iconography of the ancients forces Latter-day Saints to consider the likelihood that if these manifestations were so impressive as to motivate cultures worldwide to record what they saw by any method available to them, then this same imagery must have found its way into scriptural accounts recorded by the prophets of God and into the iconography of temples, ancient and modern.

This is the test. And Joseph Smith and the gospel he restored pass it with flying colors.

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[SempiternalHarbinger]

thebestsun, Great, great, post my friend. I have notice in this thread there is two conversations going on. I was thinking about expounding on the Electrical Universe/plasma cosmology but glad you took time to expound.. I have never studied Anthony Larson’s works, But am a big believer that Electricity runs the Universe rather than gravity. I watched those videos of Anthony Larson and was quite fascinated. One reason I never listened to Anthony is because I read a few papers by him in which he insists the Gadianton Robbers of our day are Osama Bin Ladan and his band hiding out in some caves in the middle east. Which I 100% disagree. So he lost credibility with me . But that is not his expertise. But after watching those videos I think I might go buy some of his books. Because even though I disagree with him on one thing it seems we agree 100% on another and I think I could learn some valuable stuff from him. Put the stuff we disagree on to the side.

Like I said before in my earlier post, I never bought into what our history books teach us about space and the Universe. This is an area where Satan has worked overtime. There is way too many phenomenal s and anomalies that contradict what we are thought. Anything that doesn't fit in the model (big-bang) they just throw it by the wayside. And there is so many. NASA and scientist just say they don’t have enough information yet, there not far along to understand it but insist it fits into there theories even though they cant explain it. They never even consider that they might be wrong all together. These anomalies prove to me they are all together wrong. They systematically exclude legitimate alternatives that threaten the status-quo. What they do is not science. they try and make it fit into their model of thinking. Much like how the bible came about, so many disregard the dead sea scrolls and apocrypha writings because much of it contradicts what they have been taught. Like those who decided what to include and what not to include in the Bible, if it did not fall into their line of thinking they just threw it by the wayside. Same thing with scientist and the Big-Bang.

The way we are told the Universe was formed was the big bang. The theory says there was beginning to our Universe so there has to be an end to it. We are told billion of years ago our Universe look very different from the way it does now. That before the big bang there was nothing. We know from scriptures you cannot make nothing out of nothing. We are told the law of gravity formed the universe not God.. I think these are lies handed down from the devil. For I believe there was no beginning and that our Universe looks very similar now as it did billions of years ago. So if this theory is wrong (which I believe) how does the Universe go about its business.

Here are a few of the countless modern scientific assumptions that don't fit into there line of thinking.
Black Holes
Dark Matter
Sun
Suns Corona during a Eclipse
The Moon
Comets ( are NOT made of ice)
Creation of planets
planetary scarring and many other 'mysterious' phenomena.

Plasma cosmology/electrical universe has great, easy explanations that make so much more sense to me. Eric Skousen book "In the Beginning" is majorly flawed as well as the "Kolob Theorem" which I have read both and use to love them. What these writers, NASA, and Scientist fail to consider is the known principles of electricity. Albert Einstein admits to not ever considering electricity in his model.

I don't know how much I could learn from Anthony Larson with regards of plasma cosmology but seems I could learn a tone about how the Electrical Universe redefines ancient history, future prophecy, linking rock art images carved in basalt 5,000 years ago with identical images found only in Hubble photographs of deep space or in photographs of recently declassified high-energy plasma discharge experiments generated in a billion dollar lab. He seems to have been able to tie the scriptures and words of the prophets with this model. Correct? In fact I am in quite a bite of shock how much the scriptures are matching up.

Thunderbolts Of The Gods
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zixnWeE8A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AshleyB]

thebestsun, Great, great, post my friend. I have notice in this thread there is two conversations going on. I was thinking about expounding on the Electrical Universe/plasma cosmology but glad you took time to expound.. I have never studied Anthony Larson’s works, But am a big believer that Electricity runs the Universe rather than gravity. I watched those videos of Anthony Larson and was quite fascinated. One reason I never listened to Anthony is because I read a few papers by him in which he insists the Gadianton Robbers of our day are Osama Bin Ladan and his band hiding out in some caves in the middle east. Which I 100% disagree. So he lost credibility with me . But that is not his expertise. But after watching those videos I think I might go buy some of his books. Because even though I disagree with him on one thing it seems we agree 100% on another and I think I could learn some valuable stuff from him. Put the stuff we disagree on to the side.

Like I said before in my earlier post, I never bought into what our history books teach us about space and the Universe. This is an area where Satan has worked overtime. There is way too many phenomenal s and anomalies that contradict what we are thought. Anything that doesn't fit in the model (big-bang) they just throw it by the wayside. And there is so many. NASA and scientist just say they don’t have enough information yet, there not far along to understand it but insist it fits into there theories even though they cant explain it. They never even consider that they might be wrong all together. These anomalies prove to me they are all together wrong. They systematically exclude legitimate alternatives that threaten the status-quo. What they do is not science. they try and make it fit into their model of thinking. Much like how the bible came about, so many disregard the dead sea scrolls and apocrypha writings because much of it contradicts what they have been taught. Like those who decided what to include and what not to include in the Bible, if it did not fall into their line of thinking they just threw it by the wayside. Same thing with scientist and the Big-Bang.

The way we are told the Universe was formed was the big bang. The theory says there was beginning to our Universe so there has to be an end to it. We are told billion of years ago our Universe look very different from the way it does now. That before the big bang there was nothing. We know from scriptures you cannot make nothing out of nothing. We are told the law of gravity formed the universe not God.. I think these are lies handed down from the devil. For I believe there was no beginning and that our Universe looks very similar now as it did billions of years ago. So if this theory is wrong (which I believe) how does the Universe go about its business.

Here are a few of the countless modern scientific assumptions that don't fit into there line of thinking.
Black Holes
Dark Matter
Sun
Suns Corona during a Eclipse
The Moon
Comets ( are NOT made of ice)
Creation of planets
planetary scarring and many other 'mysterious' phenomena.

Plasma cosmology/electrical universe has great, easy explanations that make so much more sense to me. Eric Skousen book "In the Beginning" is majorly flawed as well as the "Kolob Theorem" which I have read both and use to love them. What these writers, NASA, and Scientist fail to consider is the known principles of electricity. Albert Einstein admits to not ever considering electricity in his model.

I don't know how much I could learn from Anthony Larson with regards of plasma cosmology but seems I could learn a tone about how the Electrical Universe redefines ancient history, future prophecy, linking rock art images carved in basalt 5,000 years ago with identical images found only in Hubble photographs of deep space or in photographs of recently declassified high-energy plasma discharge experiments generated in a billion dollar lab. He seems to have been able to tie the scriptures and words of the prophets with this model. Correct? In fact I am in quite a bite of shock how much the scriptures are matching up.

Thunderbolts Of The Gods
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zixnWeE8A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmm I haven't read any of his unrelated papers about other things but Im sure that Anthony and I dont agree 100 percent on everything myself, But on that note: I still believe, and infact I know that he has a lot of great information and truths to share. It kind of goes with my way of thinking in that I will accept truth from whence it may come. Not sure which prophet said that but thats how I tend to be. These are things he has studied for about 30 years. I first came across his blog I think as an answer to some questions I had earnestly asked in prayer. I have been a huge space geek since I was a little girl. I have always loved and have been fascinated with the Universe and Gods creations and His majesty. I also love prophecy. I was reading a lot of things regarding prophecy when I discovered that much of our church prescribes to a lot of the false notions of Christendom. The more things I read the more confused I came so I asked a very specific prayer about finding the answers I was looking for. An lo and behold I found Anthonys Blog that same day and felt the spirit testify to me many things as I read. As you said, I dont necessarily agree with every aspect of his writings but I have found a mass amount of truth in what he says regarding our Earths History, the restored gospel, the temple experience, and prophecy. A lot of what he talks about on his blog and in his classes have to do with the writing of Velikovsky, Talbott, and Electrical Universe and Plasma Physics advocates. So He hasnt come up with all of this stuff on his own but I think he is the first to fit it all together with the restored gospel and it all fits together quite beautifully IMO. Has answered so many questions for me and opened my eyes to a whole new paradigm. I wrote him an e-mail one evening and to my surprise he wrote me back the very next day and thats when I found out he offers online classes to teach the things he has learned in the last 30 years. It has been extremely rewarding for me to say the least and I am currently retaking them with my hubby. As far as his books go, In some ways I have found his blog to be even more informative because its more up to date and recent. But, I purchased his Prophecy trilogy and read them all in one night. Really great stuff.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Black holes are simply the destruction mechanism that God uses to dispose of wicked worlds and people.