Constitution Saved? HOW

Discussion of principles relating to God's Law, Agency, Freedom, Liberty, the US constitution, and the Proper Role of Government.

Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby dennis » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:56 pm

The nation that up holds secret combinations will be destroyed. At this point , the prospects for Liberty look slim . Since 9/11 The Gadiantons have been tightening their grip. Political, economic and military power is in their control. Increasingly , Patriots are being silenced. Most Americans dont realize the war is being fought. There are statements to the effect that the constitution could be saved. It was established by great sacrifice and by divine inspiration. It remains to be seen if Liberty will be reenshrined as the law of the land.. If so How and when?
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Constitution Saved? HOW

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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby Original_Intent » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:58 pm

dennis wrote:The nation that up holds secret combinations will be destroyed. At this point , the prospects for Liberty look slim . Since 9/11 The Gadiantons have been tightening their grip. Political, economic and military power is in their control. Increasingly , Patriots are being silenced. Most Americans dont realize the war is being fought. There are statements to the effect that the constitution could be saved. It was established by great sacrifice and by divine inspiration. It remains to be seen if Liberty will be reenshrined as the law of the land.. If so How and when?


It will be destroyed on a national scale and hopefully be upheld and followed on the local level. I think it is what is going to allow us to become a place of relative calm during the chaos. I hope.
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby Legion » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:02 pm

The Constitution is a set of legal constraints on government....relatively easy to save in the collapse of control. Government not so much!
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby lundbaek » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:02 pm

I cannot envision constitutional principles being restored to government until after the cleansing of America. The only thing I really hope to accomplish in that connection is to help prepare part of the "remnamt" that will have the task of establishing government under the principles of the original Constitution. To do that, we need to get on with educating our kids and grand kids in American history and those principles of the original Constitution.

I frequently hear from LDSs that we need not concern ourselves with this now, as when "the time is right" members of the Church will know what to do. Can somebody explain how that could be possible?
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby SwissMrs&Pitchfire » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:05 pm

The pertinent quote is that we "shall be found holding it up."

Turning to our timeline: First the Lord cleanses the inner vessel and purifies His people. Next He separates them as the judgments go abroad and a "curtain" or "gulf" separate "us" and "them." In our isolated state we continue with good governance and good law. Eventually, having had "mobocracy to their hearts content" they will be compelled to flee to us for safety ("despised as we are now"). We will never let it go (good constitutional government) and the U.S. nation will fall apart like broken glass without us.
"The rich can only get them (keys, signs, words, etc...) in the temple, the poor may get them on the mountaintop as did Moses." Joseph Smith HC 4:608
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby lundbaek » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:28 pm

Anybody, please!

Who is that "will never let it go (good constitutional government)? I sure don't see the "Elders of Israel" holding on to good constitutional government.

How will we "continue with good governance and good law" when we don't have such now, and most of what I think of as the "Elders of Israel" don't know what "good governance and good law" is.

I'll accept the idea that a "remnant" of the members of the Church may accomplish this, but not the general body of the Priesthood. Unless they get on the stick PDQ.
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby SwissMrs&Pitchfire » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:52 pm

I don't mean to imply all of the Elders of Israel pre-cleansing. But it has been prophesied that it will be the Elders that will be found holding it up, from whence it will eventually go to all the world. The beauty is that it doesn't take the whole, or even the majority. It just takes a remnant.

As to good governance and law, my point was that they will then do so in their isolated and later open state. It does not have to now exist in abundance and can easily be righted in isolation (especially when the rest of the nation crumbles and we are no longer shackled to it's rotting corpse).

The early saints brought government with them, it didn't take hundreds of millions of informed, just a few good, wise, honest decent men.
"The rich can only get them (keys, signs, words, etc...) in the temple, the poor may get them on the mountaintop as did Moses." Joseph Smith HC 4:608
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby patriotsaint » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:55 pm

lundbaek wrote:Anybody, please!

Who is that "will never let it go (good constitutional government)? I sure don't see the "Elders of Israel" holding on to good constitutional government.

How will we "continue with good governance and good law" when we don't have such now, and most of what I think of as the "Elders of Israel" don't know what "good governance and good law" is.

I'll accept the idea that a "remnant" of the members of the Church may accomplish this, but not the general body of the Priesthood. Unless they get on the stick PDQ.



I think that as the church is purified via the calamaties and persecutions that will happen, and as the forces of good an evil continue to polarize along lines that are increasingly defined, that we will repent as a people (Church) and turn back to constitutional principles.

I have seen amazing changes among my own family. My father, father-in-law and brother-in-law used to laugh me to scorn when we discussed politics. Now, more often than not, I find them listening respectfully and agreeing in many instances with what I have to say. I think many of us will be privileged to share the political knowledge we have worked for and will be able to righteously influence many in the Church and in our families when the right time comes.

In fact, I believe that when we turn back to the Constitution as a Church, that persecutions will be intensified or in other words, that our political unity may by a catalyst for persecution. People will be afraid of our political influence, just as they were in Missouri and they don't want a religious voice in the political arena. I think both Elder Oaks and Elder Cook have hinted that there may by trouble ahead when it comes to politics or "public discourse."
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!"- Patrick Henry
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby lundbaek » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:34 pm

Thus far I have not seen any changes in anybody that I would consider a turning about. But I have found and keep finding people who seem to have had the seeds planted in them at some point and are now awakening, or blossoming. For example, a week ago I was introduced to an inactive member of our ward from England who is really keen on our Constitution and its principles, and is hoping to study constitutional law when he finishes his current college studies. I think the tea parties around here are bringing people out of the woodwork who's seeds are beginning to blossom.
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby bobhenstra » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:37 pm

During the initial part of the cleansing the Elders will protect the ideas and principles of the constitution, and the constitution itself (The type and shadow is Alma 43-46) The "title of Liberty" our "type" to our constitution. When the cleansing is complete our political leadership will continue to be established under correct constitutional principals. and we'll be governed under those same principals.

We should distinguish between between righteous political leadership, righteous military leadership and righteous religious leadership. Captain Moroni (Start with Alma 43) was the righteous military leader, Alma, then Helaman, the righteous religious leaders, but who, in their time was the righteous political leader? Anybody know?? King Hezekiah in Isaiah is the type and shadow we have in the Bible, Who in Helaman's day?

during and after the cleansing We'll continue to have political leaders, just not on the same basis as they are distinguished now, they'll be righteous people, a far cry from what we have now.

No matter how bad things get, the country and the constitution will persist, we have that promise. We also have the promise that only 50 percent of us will persist!

Bob
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby dennis » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:21 pm

So are we saying. after a cleansing, some will desire liberty and start living by constitutional principles. The lord will hand liberty to the few righteous survivors. Sounds like wishful thinking. First , wishful we survive, and second, wishfull the Lord will intervene. History or the scriptures teach differently. That is not how Liberty is won. Liberty or any blessing has to be earned by obedience to the law on which it is predicated. Through our trial; what is it the Lord wants us to learn.? and what will be the trial?
A law of Technical analysis says; A trend will continue until it ends. The trend today is: more control for them and less freedom for us. I see this trend continuing. The trial could be Slavery. or a complete loss of freedom. Under that senario, It will be more difficult in the future to reinstall the constitution and liberty. It is my theory that we should be doing things today instead of waiting until after the cleansing trial. Doing now, could save a lot of pain, in the future.
Bad guys are wimps The great enemy of lies is the Truth. In time of universal deceit, telling truth is a revolutionary act PASSIONATE CHRISTIAN for LOVE: Only Love can defeat the Devil NO PILLS NO Banks No Money All-natural-high CURED NOT BAND-AIDED
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby Original_Intent » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:31 pm

bobhenstra wrote:

We should distinguish between between righteous political leadership, righteous military leadership and righteous religious leadership. Captain Moroni (Start with Alma 43) was the righteous military leader, Alma, then Helaman, the righteous religious leaders, but who, in their time was the righteous political leader? Anybody know?? King Hezekiah in Isaiah is the type and shadow we have in the Bible, Who in Helaman's day?


Bob


Nephihah, then Pahoran. The point where Pahoran took over is where I read to this morning :)
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby sbsion » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:10 pm

the Lords way, via famine, pestilence, disease, earthquake and priesthood power to move mountains, heal the sick and raise the dead with freedom as their reward
There are no mysteries, only undiscovered truths, have you found one today?
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby Legion » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:28 pm

dennis wrote:So are we saying. after a cleansing, some will desire liberty and start living by constitutional principles. The lord will hand liberty to the few righteous survivors. Sounds like wishful thinking. First , wishful we survive, and second, wishfull the Lord will intervene. History or the scriptures teach differently. That is not how Liberty is won. Liberty or any blessing has to be earned by obedience to the law on which it is predicated. Through our trial; what is it the Lord wants us to learn.? and what will be the trial?
A law of Technical analysis says; A trend will continue until it ends. The trend today is: more control for them and less freedom for us. I see this trend continuing. The trial could be Slavery. or a complete loss of freedom. Under that senario, It will be more difficult in the future to reinstall the constitution and liberty. It is my theory that we should be doing things today instead of waiting until after the cleansing trial. Doing now, could save a lot of pain, in the future.


How did the Jews escape from the Egyptians? What happened prior to Christ's visit to America?
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby lundbaek » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:39 pm

I am just trying to stimulate or provoke thought and discussion with this question, but IF
"we should be doing things today instead of waiting until after the cleansing trial" why then are not more members engaged in this, and why are stake presidents and bishops not promoting such actions?

Truth be known, at least once a day I consider just throwing the fight. Until I get thinking of our kids and grandkids. Then I feel like....well, never mind.
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby AussieOi » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:07 pm

Stake prresidents are administrators
bishops are too busy counselling depressed housewives and way too afraid to mention something as controversial as the constitution
but shucks.

you know the answer
won't someone please post it

everyone is waiting for a program from the brethren
i guess when you are a big church you need handbooks for all the programs

and people aren't likely to take up such a cause

bishop wants stake pres to tell him to do it.
a stake pres wants for area president, and so on up
but we are a global church now. well, apparently.
it won't happen
you read the secular authority thread.
there was your answer
all these george washington wannabees demanding pre-emptive justification.

thankfully your founders had nads sufficient to do it
but theyde be excommunicated by their local leader today so there's another answer.

justify me!!!!!!!!!!
tell me what to do!!!!!
compell me!!!!!!!
what do i need the holy ghost for...those scriptures "likened to our day"!!
we have living prophets
god does nothing except he tells the prophet
i am an obedient law abiding member.
i will for certain heed the call.
but we tweak not the tail of the beast lest our missionary programs get affected.


if it really was important they would tell us what we need to do

some say a test, a test is coming.
a sifting. gay marriage, obeying TSA sexual assaults and laws we don't like and obeying unconstitutional laws the local leader tells us we have to obey. yes, "a test is coming" and so on

lundbaek, don't ever stop. THAT, is the test

will you be neutralised?

that is the test.

if you don't oppose it you ARE it.

that's why you teach your grandchildren.
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby dennis » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:16 pm

Thank you Aussie, so profound , so simple, so libertad. I vote for you. what does OI mean?
Bad guys are wimps The great enemy of lies is the Truth. In time of universal deceit, telling truth is a revolutionary act PASSIONATE CHRISTIAN for LOVE: Only Love can defeat the Devil NO PILLS NO Banks No Money All-natural-high CURED NOT BAND-AIDED
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby Wilford » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:20 pm

I really like this quote from President Benson. It is powerful and very much to the point:

"And now as to the last neutralizer that the devil uses most effectively—it is simply this: “Don’t do anything in the fight for freedom until the Church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution.” This brings us right back to the scripture I opened with today—to those slothful servants who will not do anything until they are “compelled in all things” [D&C 58:26]. Maybe the Lord will never set up a specific church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. Perhaps if he set one up at this time it might split the Church asunder, and perhaps he does not want that to happen yet for not all the wheat and tares are fully ripe.

The Prophet Joseph Smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, not the Church. And have we elders been warned? Yes, we have. And have we elders been given the guidelines? Yes indeed, we have. And besides, if the Church should ever inaugurate a program, who do you think would be in the forefront to get it moving? It would not be those who were sitting on the sidelines prior to that time or those who were appeasing the enemy. It would be those choice spirits who, not waiting to be “commanded in all things” [D&C 58:26], used their own free will, the counsel of the prophets, and the Spirit of the Lord as guidelines and who entered the battle “in a good cause” [D&C 58:27] and brought to pass much righteousness in freedom’s cause. . . .

Brethren, if we had done our homework and were faithful, we could step forward at this time and help save this country. The fact that most of us are unprepared to do it is an indictment we will have to bear. The longer we wait, the heavier the chains, the deeper the blood, the more the persecution, and the less we can carry out our God-given mandate and worldwide mission. The war in heaven is raging on the earth today. Are you being neutralized in the battle?" (”Not Commanded in All Things” 538-39; also in GFC 385-89)
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby dennis » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:30 pm

Yes Hallelujah!! Yea Wilford!!!! Even more profound than Aussie if thats possible. thats great for starters , Give us MORE the best response ever. General Wilford for President. In the great tradition of Mormon.
Bad guys are wimps The great enemy of lies is the Truth. In time of universal deceit, telling truth is a revolutionary act PASSIONATE CHRISTIAN for LOVE: Only Love can defeat the Devil NO PILLS NO Banks No Money All-natural-high CURED NOT BAND-AIDED
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby Mark » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:45 pm

AussieOi wrote:Stake prresidents are administrators
bishops are too busy counselling depressed housewives and way too afraid to mention something as controversial as the constitution
but shucks.

you know the answer
won't someone please post it

everyone is waiting for a program from the brethren
i guess when you are a big church you need handbooks for all the programs

and people aren't likely to take up such a cause

bishop wants stake pres to tell him to do it.
a stake pres wants for area president, and so on up
but we are a global church now. well, apparently.
it won't happen
you read the secular authority thread.
there was your answer
all these george washington wannabees demanding pre-emptive justification.

thankfully your founders had nads sufficient to do it
but theyde be excommunicated by their local leader today so there's another answer.

justify me!!!!!!!!!!
tell me what to do!!!!!
compell me!!!!!!!
what do i need the holy ghost for...those scriptures "likened to our day"!!
we have living prophets
god does nothing except he tells the prophet
i am an obedient law abiding member.
i will for certain heed the call.
but we tweak not the tail of the beast lest our missionary programs get affected.


if it really was important they would tell us what we need to do

some say a test, a test is coming.
a sifting. gay marriage, obeying TSA sexual assaults and laws we don't like and obeying unconstitutional laws the local leader tells us we have to obey. yes, "a test is coming" and so on

lundbaek, don't ever stop. THAT, is the test

will you be neutralised?

that is the test.

if you don't oppose it you ARE it.

that's why you teach your grandchildren.



Best be careful mate. You may find someday with that cynical attitude you constantly display about the church and its membership that it is you that goes thru that sifting process by failing the ultimate test of charity.
You are a true nothing Mark.
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby Wilford » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:53 pm

dennis wrote:Yes Hallelujah!! Yea Wilford!!!! Even more profound than Aussie if thats possible. thats great for starters , Give us MORE the best response ever. General Wilford for President. In the great tradition of Mormon.

Well, shucks, let's not go there! :wink:

But, as you wish. Here is more. Love this stuff!!


"For years we have heard of the role the elders could play in saving the Constitution from total destruction. But how can the elders be expected to save it if they have not studied it and are not sure if it is being destroyed or what is destroying it?

An informed patriotic gentile was dumbfounded when he heard of Joseph Smith’s reported prophecy regarding the mission our elders could perform in saving the Constitution. He lived in a Mormon community with nice people who were busily engaged in other activities but who had little concern in preserving their freedom. He wondered if maybe a letter should not be sent to President McKay, urging him to release some of the elders from their present Church activities so there would be a few who could help step forward to save the Constitution.

Now it is not so much a case of a man giving up all his other duties to fight for freedom, as it is a case of a man getting his life in balance so he can discharge all of his God-given responsibilities. And of all these responsibilities President McKay has said that we have “no greater immediate responsibility” than “to protect the freedom vouchsafed by the Constitution of the United States.”

There is no excuse that can compensate for the loss of liberty.

Satan is anxious to neutralize the inspired counsel of the Prophet and hence keep the priesthood off balance, ineffective and inert in the fight for freedom. He does this through diverse means, including the use of perverse reasoning. . . .

The cause of freedom is a most basic part of our religion. Our position on freedom helped get us to this earth and it can make the difference as to whether we get back home or not. . . .

Now part of the reason why we do not have sufficient Priesthood bearers to save the Constitution, let alone to shake the powers of hell, is, I fear, because unlike Moroni, our souls do not joy in keeping our country free and we are not firm in the faith of Christ, nor have we sworn with an oath to defend our rights." (”Our Immediate Responsibility” 10-11; also in Enemy 313-15)
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby ChemtrailWatcher » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:53 pm

I really like this quote from President Benson. It is powerful and very much to the point:

"And now as to the last neutralizer that the devil uses most effectively—it is simply this: “Don’t do anything in the fight for freedom until the Church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution.” This brings us right back to the scripture I opened with today—to those slothful servants who will not do anything until they are “compelled in all things” [D&C 58:26]. Maybe the Lord will never set up a specific church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. Perhaps if he set one up at this time it might split the Church asunder, and perhaps he does not want that to happen yet for not all the wheat and tares are fully ripe.

The Prophet Joseph Smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, not the Church. And have we elders been warned? Yes, we have. And have we elders been given the guidelines? Yes indeed, we have. And besides, if the Church should ever inaugurate a program, who do you think would be in the forefront to get it moving? It would not be those who were sitting on the sidelines prior to that time or those who were appeasing the enemy. It would be those choice spirits who, not waiting to be “commanded in all things” [D&C 58:26], used their own free will, the counsel of the prophets, and the Spirit of the Lord as guidelines and who entered the battle “in a good cause” [D&C 58:27] and brought to pass much righteousness in freedom’s cause. . . .

Brethren, if we had done our homework and were faithful, we could step forward at this time and help save this country. The fact that most of us are unprepared to do it is an indictment we will have to bear. The longer we wait, the heavier the chains, the deeper the blood, the more the persecution, and the less we can carry out our God-given mandate and worldwide mission. The war in heaven is raging on the earth today. Are you being neutralized in the battle?" (”Not Commanded in All Things” 538-39; also in GFC 385-89)



Wow!!! That is an amazing quote!! You can't get much clearer than that.
“The best example of democracy I can recall is five wolves sitting down to dinner with one sheep.” -- unknown
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby lundbaek » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:59 pm

I'm afraid those statements by Ezra Taft Benson don't count for much at this time, just like the statements years ago by Prophets telling us to not use government welfare.

We generally have not done our homework as admonished, we have not been faithful to the principles of the US Constitution, and we are in no condition to help save this country from the murderous combinations that have gotten above us. A battle to save this country is raging. But American Latter-day Saints generally, who have a divinely mandated responsibility to the US Constitution and its preservation, and who should be leading the charge in returning the principles of the Constitution to our government seem to have been neutralized.

I am becoming increasingly convinced that most LDSs failed or refused to engage in that battle when it might have been won. In large part because of that, the LDGs have been winning to the extent that if the Church were to take an active part in trying to direct that battle now it would sustain severe persecution that could very possibly disrupt our missionary and building programs, whcih are heavily dependent on the good will of a lot of different government officials in different countries, who themselves are possibly beholden to varying extents to the LDGs.

Having said that, I am pleased at the increading numbers of church members I find involved in the battle thru other organizations like the John Birch Society, the Constitution Party, tea parties, etc.
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby AussieOi » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:29 am

dennis wrote:Yes Hallelujah!! Yea Wilford!!!! Even more profound than Aussie if thats possible. thats great for starters , Give us MORE the best response ever. General Wilford for President. In the great tradition of Mormon.

settle down son
that's the very answer i was asking someone to post.
i have the greatest legend ever here CHH/ Wiiki to thank
for that quote.
there's 6 others that come with it.
i've posted them 20 times.
i don't do it anymore, time for someone else to step up

Oi means nothing at all. it is pronounced Oy.
Every australian knows what it means though.
its part of a stupid chant.
The shelf said enough. AussieOi@hotmail.com
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby lundbaek » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:43 am

I think I understand Aussie’s frustration with and apparent attitude toward members and certain leaders of the church, although maybe from a different perspective. This may be hard for some to believe, coming from me, but I do try to consider the various reasons for members and church leaders remaining inactive and silent in this battle. Although it's not easy when a member of the stake presidency tell me that he considers the book “None Dare Call It Conspiracy” by Gary Allen “mostly a bunch of bunk”.
And I have held back from saying certain things. On a fast and testimony Sunday a few months ago I was prepared to testify that “...the Lord established the Constitution of this land by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose, and as President Packer said about a year ago, "To honor the Constitution and to honor freedom is a sacred duty for all of us." “ I felt the Spirit tell me “Don’t say that”, and I skipped over that part of my testimony. But 2 months later, on the first Sunday in September, I felt impressed to say exactly that, loud and clear, after a member of our bishopric had just announced a Constitution Week activity in a neighboring town, and the stake president and other stake leaders were present.
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby AussieOi » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:49 am

lundbaek wrote:I think I understand Aussie’s frustration with and apparent attitude toward members and certain leaders of the church, although maybe from a different perspective. This may be hard for some to believe, coming from me, but I do try to consider the various reasons for members and church leaders remaining inactive and silent in this battle. Although it's not easy when a member of the stake presidency tell me that he considers the book “None Dare Call It Conspiracy” by Gary Allen “mostly a bunch of bunk”.
And I have held back from saying certain things. On a fast and testimony Sunday a few months ago I was prepared to testify that “...the Lord established the Constitution of this land by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose, and as President Packer said about a year ago, "To honor the Constitution and to honor freedom is a sacred duty for all of us." “ I felt the Spirit tell me “Don’t say that”, and I skipped over that part of my testimony. But 2 months later, on the first Sunday in September, I felt impressed to say exactly that, loud and clear, after a member of our bishopric had just announced a Constitution Week activity in a neighboring town, and the stake president and other stake leaders were present.



Heres a new take
why not say you were recently communicating with an Australian LDS who used to detest the USA (for its in his words militaristic foreign policy)
then, as he saw his own freedoms being whittled away under the guise of this phoney "war on terror" he expressed how he only wishes he had protections that the US citizens have under their constitution.
his 14yr old son can be strip searched in the street by the police with no parent or lawyer being present.
and on and on
if only he had a 1st amendment, or a 4th
he says he can understand how the constitution HAD to be there to enable the church to be established and flourish
sadly, he shares my (im speaking for you here presumptuously now- apol) concerns that seeing how your freedoms are being similarly eroded, they dont seem to mean much anymore
at least we have the holy ghost to guide us through these awful times, and such quotes as Pres McKay, or others...that insert defending constitution is most important thing


no one can begrudge you that way to put it


yeah, church wont risk its tax free status, nor will it go on a limb.
its very republican too
more to the point tho, it knows if it says something then you go watch idiot LDS like some of the jokers here go out and shoot some abortionist doctor or politician

anyway, glad Wilford posted it.
its obvious anyway

we have a church of 3 groups
the inactives
the must be compelled, who are good at telling everyone else what to do
the others
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby AussieOi » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:53 am

Mark wrote:
Best be careful mate. You may find someday with that cynical attitude you constantly display about the church and its membership that it is you that goes thru that sifting process by failing the ultimate test of charity.



weren't we here in 2006 Mark?

heres a thought

the church is its membership
im a member despite the apathy to all things freedom of a great bulk of its members (indeed they applauded Darth Cheney 22 times with standing ovations)
and they're a member despite people like me

any minute now, right? isn't that the next line...ive seen many people ra ra, like you, ra ra, they were critical of the leaders, ra ra, all went apostate, ra ra, but not me, im perfect

isn't that the next post?

if the Pres can say the church goes on despite the missionaries, am i allowed to say i remain a member despite half its members?

why do you assume i am critical of the leadership?
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby Darren » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:02 am

Only one thing can save the Constitution. A return to the principles of the free enterprise system and of the original constitution, that was the original contract between the church and Jesus Christ.

Either Jesus Christ will bring us back to the basis of that contract with the upcoming cleansing or, we will step forward and reclaim the basis of our Constitution.

A few of us are stepping forward, but is it too little too late?

God bless,
Darren
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby AussieOi » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:48 am

Darren wrote:Only one thing can save the Constitution. A return to the principles of the free enterprise system and of the original constitution, that was the original contract between the church and Jesus Christ.

Either Jesus Christ will bring us back to the basis of that contract with the upcoming cleansing or, we will step forward and reclaim the basis of our Constitution.

A few of us are stepping forward, but is it too little too late?

God bless,
Darren



not too late, but too many have to give up (to them) too much to return to that system
it means no safety net
the "system" as it were then , is not what we see today
today is govt programs. works for infrastructure building and investment thanks to the public nipple
but as maggie thatcher said, socialism only works until you run out of other peoples money
methinks that too many have been seduced by the spoils of the system
there is no going back, just decay now
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Re: Constitution Saved? HOW

Postby lundbaek » Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:50 am

As I said recently, IMO it is too late to reverse course and return to the principles of the free enterprise system and of the original constitution this side of the "cleansing". That's why I am focusing now on what I hope will be the "remnant" that will establish government based on the principles of the original Constitution.

The success of establishing a post-cleansing government based on the principles of the original Constitution will require a "remnant" that espouses and abides by all the principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And that includes “befriending” only laws which square with the original US Constitution and support the principles of fundamental or unalienable rights for all persons. It includes the determination to oppose efforts to circumvent those principles. It includes a willingness, even the desire, to make time participate in establishing and maintaining such government.

We would do well to begin and get on with the education of that "remnant" now. They have a tough task ahead of them.
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