THE call out

[Cowboy]

Hey gang,
I have read several interesting threads recently that all end up dealing with the "big call out" in one way or another. Then just last week I had a very spirited discussion with a fellow ward member about the subject. I just wanted to ask a couple of questions which will also explain my personal feelings about said "call out". Being an ex-RKY board member for years, I really take an exception to this one point amongst the many iffy points of doctrine taught amongst that group over the years.

Exactly how will this call out be administered?

I am personal friends with my current Bishop. Respect him very much. He does not believe for a minute that a call out will ever come to be. He has studied it in depth. I am also a personal friend with my current Stake President. He does not believe in any sense of the phrase that a call out will ever come to be. With this in mind, knowing it won't come through that channel, exactly where will the call out come from for me and my family? There is no Church Government between the Stake President and the General Authorities, so how would this happen? If it came from the General Authorities, it would come over the pulpit and would be received by a populous of Mormons that is 99.5% unprepared for such an event. ( maybe the .5% number is way too generous )

How will it happen?

If it came tomorrow, or next conference, where would we go and how would we get there? We recently moved and took our food storage along. It took a whole truck just for my family. A whole truck! (A large U-Haul). So when we talk about the whole membership of Saints in Utah, as an example, heading to the Heber Girls Camp with nothing more than our food storage, Army tent and our foam sleeping bags, The sheer volume of that notion is to suggest a scale of operation that would be literally impossible. Ask anyone who has been tasked with logistics for the Stake Trek for just our young men and young women once and they will tell you that it would be impossible.

This all leads back to my main contention that when the call out happens, it will come from an avenue the Church does NOT travel. A small group from "The board" that truly is ready and it will be quietly done so as to not alarm the "aints" that cannot live the higher law and it will not be to a church camp but to some special place someone in the group has prepared that will handle the select numbers of the select group. Disaster always follows as things fall apart and someone, somewhere ends up fixing a large vat of Koolaid. ( not the kind the liberals drink )
It always feels great to be a part of the special inside group that lives the higher law but it never seems to work out.
The best way to be special is to pay ALL of your tithing, visit ALL of your home teaching and visiting teaching families, magnify your calling ALL the time, keep ALL the commandment and especially watch Glenn Beck everyday! ( har har ) Do ALL of this All of the time and Enoch will visit you personally and suck you up ahead of everyone else for a special interview with your personal savior.

My thoughts......

[jsk]

Cowboy,

I don't completely discount a call out, but I think it's highly unlikely. When I contemplate such a thing, I can't help but remember that ours is a worldwide Church...these call out visions and dreams only ever seem to involve those of us in the United States...I can't help but feel that those of us in the US tend to forget there are millions of members in other countries (kind of validates Aussie OI's diatribes about Americans being arrogant)...would we receive a call out but they wouldn't? I don't know....hard for me to reconcile...

Good post!

[Nan]

I think that many people who get sucked into this type of thing desire desperately to feel special. To feel like they are more righteous or more aware then other members of the church. All satan has to do is get us on a side path. He doesn't even have to get us that far off the path at all to be happy. And he doesn't care what the path is as long as it isn't the correct one.

[e-eye]

Call out- doubt it will happen, actually I am pretty sure it won't happen. I think we will lift where we stand.

Here is the best part. If you are living righteously and there were a call out you would be ready and you don't even have to worry about where when or if it is going to happen. So the cool things is as long as I am doing what I am supposed to do I don't have to worry about things that probably won't happen but if they do I would be ready.

[pjbrownie]

Isaiah predicts a call-out or at least removal of the body of Zion to the wilderness. It will be directed by the church. The trek into Utah from Missouri is a type for the this future call-out, IMO. I'll look up the reference for anyone who's interested.

[drjme]

Cowboy,

I don't completely discount a call out, but I think it's highly unlikely. When I contemplate such a thing, I can't help but remember that ours is a worldwide Church...these call out visions and dreams only ever seem to involve those of us in the United States...I can't help but feel that those of us in the US tend to forget there are millions of members in other countries (kind of validates Aussie OI's diatribes about Americans being arrogant)...would we receive a call out but they wouldn't? I don't know....hard for me to reconcile...

Good post!

I don't know either way, I think The church membership may at some point be called to gather in groups for safety, though I dont think it will necessarily mean being called to head for the hills. Like you said the church is actually bigger outside the US, So I don't know how everyone outside of America are supposed to jump on a plane in a economic catastrophe and head for the mountain west...

[Mary]

.

[Rose Garden]

Isaiah predicts a call-out or at least removal of the body of Zion to the wilderness. It will be directed by the church. The trek into Utah from Missouri is a type for the this future call-out, IMO. I'll look up the reference for anyone who's interested.

I'm interested.

[NoGreaterLove]

Call out or no call out, it is not the stewardship nor responsibility of anyone other than the prophet to warn of such a thing.
Just like someone said earlier, if we are prepared we shall not fear. Preparedness needs to go no further than what the church has taught us and our own personal revelation concerning our own families.

[Raindrop]

I don't agree with the call-out the way it is described by most.

That being said, Lehi's 'call-out' did not come through Jeremiah who was the prophet at the time and who apparently had stewardship over him. Just sayin'.

Did the brother of Jared's 'call-out' come through presiding priesthood channels? Could he have understood it if it did? Or was it more a matter of personal desires and prayer?

Like I said, I'm not buying the 'call-out' as 99% of people have explained it.

[Zowieink]

I'm with you all on this. Now the question, I believe it was prophecied that Zion will gather to New Jerusalem. Does anyone have an idea of time tables. Obviously, we will (the selected ones) go to Missouri and the Church will build the city (with the help of angels). So how big is this city going to be and then to all the Saints living outside the US, how will their "call-out" happen.

This has always been of tremendous interest to me (being an architect) and thinking of the millions that will be gathering in that place.

[Spence]

I think that many people who get sucked into this type of thing desire desperately to feel special. To feel like they are more righteous or more aware then other members of the church. All satan has to do is get us on a side path. He doesn't even have to get us that far off the path at all to be happy. And he doesn't care what the path is as long as it isn't the correct one.

[serenitylala]

My PB is right and there will be a call out.

That's interesting. Mine says something similar as well.

[serenitylala]

I don't agree with the call-out the way it is described by most.

That being said, Lehi's 'call-out' did not come through Jeremiah who was the prophet at the time and who apparently had stewardship over him. Just sayin'.

Did the brother of Jared's 'call-out' come through presiding priesthood channels? Could he have understood it if it did? Or was it more a matter of personal desires and prayer?

Like I said, I'm not buying the 'call-out' as 99% of people have explained it.

I agree.

[InfoWarrior82]

Of course instructions will come to us via proper channels AFTER a scenario such as: complete economic collapse where the dollar is worth nothing we have total anarchy in the streets... or nuclear blasts that devastates the nations... etc, etc. It's hard to imagine any call-out happening before this occurs. We already have been warned of scenarios like these and the Lord will now preach his own sermons because the times of the gentiles has been fulfilled. The remnant of the righteous will gather in the wilderness and will coordinate the construction of the New Jerusalem. The Lord said this is when the parable of the five virgins will be fulfilled.

[LukeAir2008]

THE call out? For the 99th time, what do you or anybody else think that actually means? Pres. Monson tells all 13 and a half million of us to go and hide in the woods maybe? Or go and camp in the hills?

You say there is no church officers between Stake Presidencies and the General Authorities? Have you ever heard of Area Authorities? They were once called Regional Representatives. The clue is in the title. 'Area'. They only have responsibility for a specific area, not the whole church.

I had an experience which you would probably refer to as a 'call-out'. I spoke about it on another thread. http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =2&t=11352

It involved the First Presidency giving instructions to the Area Presidency who gave instructions to the Stake Presidency (thats how it happens!) to personally instruct the members to have food and clothing and tents and sleeping bags and be prepared to move by a specific date. It was given to the Saints in Holland in 1994. The American Saints knew nothing about it. Neither did any other group of Saints apart from the Dutch. I was there. It did happen. I was there the day the Stake President came to tell us personally to prepare. He didn't know why other than it had come from the First Presidency. A couple of days after the deadline there were massive floods in Holland and thousands were made homeless and were evacuated. Thats why we were told. It wasn't the end of the world. We weren't going to Zion. Christ hadn't returned. Holland was going to be devastated by floods and the Prophet knew about it months before. And something else - I don't think anyone took a blind bit of notice of the warning. Those who were prepared before were still prepared on that day. And those who had ignored the counsel before ignored it again even though it was specific and timely and had come directly from the Prophet.

Im sure there have been lots of these situations all over the world and you have known nothing about it. Remember the church is larger outside the US than inside. American Saints are now, at least on paper, the minority group.

The 'call-out' happens every general conference, twice a year, every year. The call out is to leave the world. The call out is to be pure, to give up your carnal thoughts and your lusts and your addictions. To give up your pornography and your internet and your movies. To be honest and honorable and holy. To be dedicated to God. To love and serve others. To always be ready so that whenever your day comes, whether through death or disaster, you'll be prepared. Thats the 'call-out'.

Your physical location is usually irrelevant. If you are worldy and carnal in your home, you'll be worldly and carnal in your tent up in the mountains. We have already been told to prepare for famine and crisis so the onus is on us as to how much food we have and where we live etc.

When we are pure and holy in our homes, then maybe the Lord can warn us or use us in the future. That might involve escaping death or disaster...or it might involve building holy cities and mingling with God's and Angels.

Only the pure in heart can go to the City of Zion. The worldy and carnal can't be there and won't want to be there!

[drjme]

THE call out? For the 99th time, what do you or anybody else think that actually means? Pres. Monson tells all 13 and a half million of us to go and hide in the woods maybe? Or go and camp in the hills?

You say there is no church officers between Stake Presidencies and the General Authorities? Have you ever heard of Area Authorities? They were once called Regional Representatives. The clue is in the title. 'Area'. They only have responsibility for a specific area, not the whole church.

I had an experience which you would probably refer to as a 'call-out'. I spoke about it on another thread. http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =2&t=11352

It involved the First Presidency giving instructions to the Area Presidency who gave instructions to the Stake Presidency (thats how it happens!) to personally instruct the members to have food and clothing and tents and sleeping bags and be prepared to move by a specific date. It was given to the Saints in Holland in 1994. The American Saints knew nothing about it. Neither did any other group of Saints apart from the Dutch. I was there. It did happen. I was there the day the Stake President came to tell us personally to prepare. He didn't know why other than it had come from the First Presidency. A couple of days after the deadline there were massive floods in Holland and thousands were made homeless and were evacuated. Thats why we were told. It wasn't the end of the world. We weren't going to Zion. Christ hadn't returned. Holland was going to be devastated by floods and the Prophet knew about it months before. And something else - I don't think anyone took a blind bit of notice of the warning. Those who were prepared before were still prepared on that day. And those who had ignored the counsel before ignored it again even though it was specific and timely and had come directly from the Prophet.

Im sure there have been lots of these situations all over the world and you have known nothing about it. Remember the church is larger outside the US than inside. American Saints are now, at least on paper, the minority group.

The 'call-out' happens every general conference, twice a year, every year. The call out is to leave the world. The call out is to be pure, to give up your carnal thoughts and your lusts and your addictions. To give up your pornography and your internet and your movies. To be honest and honorable and holy. To be dedicated to God. To love and serve others. To always be ready so that whenever your day comes, whether through death or disaster, you'll be prepared. Thats the 'call-out'.

Your physical location is usually irrelevant. If you are worldy and carnal in your home, you'll be worldly and carnal in your tent up in the mountains. We have already been told to prepare for famine and crisis so the onus is on us as to how much food we have and where we live etc.

When we are pure and holy in our homes, then maybe the Lord can warn us or use us in the future. That might involve escaping death or disaster...or it might involve building holy cities and mingling with God's and Angels.

Only the pure in heart can go to the City of Zion. The worldy and carnal can't be there and won't want to be there!

good post and good example of the 'callout' in holland.

you'll be worldly and carnal in your tent up in the mountains.

[NoGreaterLove]

Luke Air

Great post! I love the example, but was sad when I read that many ignored the warning.

Info

times of the gentiles has been fulfilled

The prophecies concerning this contain elements that have not occurred yet. What do you base this on? We have many years before this occurs.

This is a good scripture to use to determine when the times of the gentiles is fulfilled.
D&C 107
33 The Twelve are a Traveling Presiding High Council, to officiate in the name of the Lord, under the direction of the Presidency of the Church, agreeable to the institution of heaven; to build up the church, and regulate all the affairs of the same in all nations, first unto the Gentiles and secondly unto the Jews.
34 The Seventy are to act in the name of the Lord, under the direction of the Twelve or the traveling high council, in building up the church and regulating all the affairs of the same in all nations, first unto the Gentiles and then to the Jews;

This is still happening.

Watch where the missionaries go!

[friendsofthe]

I don’t believe in a general call out of all members of the church. For the most part I think we will do as e-eye said above and lift where we stand. However, I do believe that when all hell breaks loose it will commence in the form of WWIII and it will be nuclear. The US will get the worst of it, and so the strategic re-location of some members of the church would make good sense to me.

[NoGreaterLove]

so the strategic re-location of some members of the church would make good sense to me.

I think that is why some stakes have made plans for this to happen. My parents stake designated a members land with a well etc., and sent out an emergency evacuation plan to the wards years ago. So I do feel that Stake Presidents are being inspired in various areas to prepare.

[friendsofthe]

From the Cardston, Alberta Canada Temple statement we read:

I saw the international world war automatically break down, and national revolution occur in every country, and complete the work of chaos and desolation. I saw geological disturbances occur, which helped in this work as if it were intended to do so. I saw the Cardston Temple preserved from all of this geological upheaval. I saw the international boundary line disappear as these two governments broke up and dissolved into chaos. I saw race rioting upon the American continent on a vast scale.

I saw hunger and starvation in this world; I saw disease produced by hunger, strife and chaos complete the end of this present order or epoch. How long these events were in reaching this consummation I do not know, but my impression was from the outbreak of the international war these things developed into a continuous procession, and almost ran concurrently, as it is with a sickness, the various symptoms are all in evidence at one and the same time, but in different stages of development.

My intensified thought was "What of the Church," if such is to become of the Kingdoms of the earth? Was immediately answered by a subconscious statement. "As it is in the church today," and I saw these higher spiritual beings throughout the length and breadth of the air, marshalling their spiritual forces, and concentrating them upon the high officials of your church upon earth.

I saw the spiritual forces working upon those officers, impressing and moving them, influencing and warning them. I saw the spiritual forces begin to unfold these things into the minds of your elders and other high officials, especially during their spiritual devotions and official duties, and those activities which exalt the mind of the individual or groups. I saw the impressions take hold and inspire the more receptive and spiritual men, until it was all clearly revealed to them in the way the spiritual patriarch desired.

[John Adams]

"Personal Plan of Salvation" is one of my favorite topics to discuss.

Why did Jeremiah stay behind when Lehi and his family were "called out"? Can't we just be at peace that some of us will have different roles in the months/years ahead?

I agree with Cowboy that if we're obeying the general commandments that we've all been given (tithing, home teaching, etc., etc., etc.,); then hopefully we'll be worthy of the Spirit to do what Heavenly Father needs us each do with our talents to serve one another.

I get annoyed with the RKY crowd (and actually anyone for that matter) when they start taking the "holier than thou" approach, but my experience has been that this isn't all of them. Many of the acquaintances I've met through some of the RKY seminars are doing their best and just seeking additional information on how they can better their talents in associating with some people that know a whole bunch about "preparation." It seems to me that as we all seek to follow the inspiration we receive (i.e., why I continue to have a lot of respect for Brian for starting this site even though there sure is a lot of "holier than thou" attitudes here as well), that at the proper times we can share these talents to help one another.

If you're living the commandments and feel that you can learn some new information for your life from the RKY group - more power to you. If you feel that it's a detriment to you, then by all means stay away.

However, if/when a "call out" may happen as needed to accomplish God's plans, I hope we all can put aside our personal "opinions' and share the talents we have developed to further help God's purposes move forward.

[serenitylala]

Why did Jeremiah stay behind when Lehi and his family were "called out"? Can't we just be at peace that some of us will have different roles in the months/years ahead?

Great statement.

I think many people are horrified at the thought of members being "left behind." So hence the hope of a widespread call out.

The thought that perhaps the President of the Church won't openly state to the masses that they need to pick up and leave to avoid disasters/dangers, thus leaving people to hear the Spirit for themselves and thus causing many "good but unhearing" members to remain behind to suffer trials... is a horrifying thought. Why would a Heavenly Father full of love and compassion do such a thing? Why would He spare some and not others when they all believe in His Gospel? Also, add to that the need to hear these things firsthand from the general authorities to believe them (which I love the example of Lehi: It Jeremiah, the Presiding Prophet, that told him to flee Jerusalem. Instead, it was the Lord.) Therefore the idea of a general call out remains.

I personally believe that there will come a time when the membership will make their way back towards Missouri, which is mentioned explicitly in my PB, but I also adhere to the notion that the Lord will call people to at different times and to different places beforehand. It will be done quietly and orderly according to the will and mind of the Lord.

Many have had dreams of tent cities, others have had dreams of moving to towns in other states. Some have had dreams of church migrations to the rockies.

Who is to say that all aren't correct? Just because we are given a small view of what will happen to us, it doesn't mean that different things won't happen other people.

[InfoWarrior82]

Luke Air

Great post! I love the example, but was sad when I read that many ignored the warning.

Info

times of the gentiles has been fulfilled

The prophecies concerning this contain elements that have not occurred yet. What do you base this on? We have many years before this occurs.

This is a good scripture to use to determine when the times of the gentiles is fulfilled.
D&C 107
33 The Twelve are a Traveling Presiding High Council, to officiate in the name of the Lord, under the direction of the Presidency of the Church, agreeable to the institution of heaven; to build up the church, and regulate all the affairs of the same in all nations, first unto the Gentiles and secondly unto the Jews.
34 The Seventy are to act in the name of the Lord, under the direction of the Twelve or the traveling high council, in building up the church and regulating all the affairs of the same in all nations, first unto the Gentiles and then to the Jews;

This is still happening.

Watch where the missionaries go!

Oops! Thank you NGL, I meant to say: is in the process of being fulfilled.

[Mary]

.