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Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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I have been wondering this for a year or more, but never remember to come here and ask when I am near a computer. So, looking over the bullet points that are presented to us from this prophecy (I'm not sure who wrote it down, him or someone he told it to...any clarification would be greatly appreciated) we are after point one and still waiting on point two.

• The Big economic collapse which leads to chaos will occur in the last year of the 2nd term of the son of George Bush who will become president.
- we're here -
• There will be a great drought at about this same time all over the
country.
• Many in the 'Church' will become unrighteous and apostatize.
• There will be a nuclear bomb or bombs go off in Northern Utah that will
affect as far south as the Salt Lake Valley.
• Hundreds of millions of foreign troops (Chinese, Russians, Germans, Latin Americans, etc. according to other prophecies) will invade America.
• The main foreign force (in the Nevada/Utah/Rocky Mountain area) will be Chinese or Chinese looking troops mixed with Latin American troops.

BTW, am I missing any bullet points?

Does anybody know when he gave this? When it was written down? First time any of you heard about it, more specifically, did any of you hear about it before president GWB became president?

Thanks!
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Do a board search for 'Wolfgramm' (second text box in the upper right-hand corner above). There have been several threads on this. The results should get you everything you need, including the complete text as it was written.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Could anyone please post the full text of this prophecy?
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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AFAIK the vision was explained as things that he saw and was written down in the bullet format that you see below. This is the most complete thing I have found. I have several notes from people talking about it, but nothing more that was actually said.

Iohani Wolfgramm prophecy - Tongan Patriarch



Dream of the Cleansing of America


A dream that he had in 1989 seeing the future of America as told to a close friend. It was a dream of the cleansing of America. Here are a few salient points that he mentioned:



* The Big economic collapse which leads to chaos will occur in the last year of the 2nd term of the son of George Bush who will become president.
* There will be a great drought at about this same time all over the
country.
* Many in the 'Church' will become unrighteous and apostatize.
* There will be a nuclear bomb or bombs go off in Northern Utah that will
affect as far south as the Salt Lake Valley.
* Hundreds of millions of foreign troops (Chinese, Russians, Germans, Latin Americans, etc. according to other prophecies) will invade America.
* The main foreign force (in the Nevada/Utah/Rocky Mountain area) will be Chinese or Chinese looking troops mixed with Latin American troops.
* He said that in the third year of the second term of President Bush, the U.S. economy would collapse, which in turn would cause a series of events, including an invasion of foreign troops on U.S. Soil.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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You can read it all on BYU's family history site http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/docum ... SHOW=31478
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Thank you!
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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NamasteMama wrote:You can read it all on BYU's family history site http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/docum ... SHOW=31478


Downloaded the whole thing....not finding it....
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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I'm still reading the 32 pages of the prophecy section, so I can't say where it is yet.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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NamasteMama wrote:I'm still reading the 32 pages of the prophecy section, so I can't say where it is yet.


I read through the whole thing and did multiple searches for key words without success.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Jason

I have the PDF file somewhere, have read the whole thing. It is not there.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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So, I'm still hoping someone out there can answer these questions of mine:

Does anybody know when he gave this?
When it was written down?
First time any of you heard about it, more specifically, did any of you hear about it before president GWB became president?


I read through every post on here about IW and these are the closest answers I found to the above questions, most are about tracking down the authenticity of the bullet points. Let me know if you have more information.

-------------------------------------

He did not reveal his dreams and visions to the world. He gave the information to his daughter to be kept for the family history and someone published it.
The vision spoken of in this blog does not appear to be in his book, but my research shows it was supposedly told to one of his close friends who leaked. This particular vision can not be verified at all as coming from him. -naturelovertoo

Sat Dec 29, 2007
About last April, I spoke to a friend in Idaho Falls with first-hand acquaintance with Johani Wolfgramm ABOUT A DOZEN YEARS AGO. He confirmed this part of the prophecy:
* The Big economic collapse which leads to chaos will begin in the third year of the 2nd term of the son of George Bush who will become president, with effects clearly noted in Spring of the following year.
He spoke to Bro. Wolfgramm while Clinton was president as I recall him saying.
My family, many of us any way (7 children, 4 married now) are preparing, trying to be ready by April 2008 at the latest. - Dr. Jones

I want to let you know that I have verified this prophecy. Meaning that I have spoken to people that knew him and know his family. -proud 2b peculiar

Allan South who had received this blessing where in brother Wolfgram had mentioned the event... and then who had asked brother Wolfgram some details about it. He was very clear on every point. -mullenite

I Know Allan and he recounted this blessing to me, but he told me it was a friend of he and his wife that received this blessing. I'll ask him again just to make sure it wasn't his blessing. As far as Allan goes, I can vouch for him. He's a great guy, down to earth and slow to speculation and hype. By the way, if you haven't purchased his survival manual " Sense of Survival", you better, VERY SOON!! -n8-r

I just got off the phone with Allan and he told me that it WAS NOT him who received that blessing. It was a friend of theirs that received that blessing. Just to clarify, this blessing was never intended to be shared with the masses, but somehow got out and got circulated. -n8-r

I've never been able to find this prophecy or find its source. All Internet sources point to someone who's copied someone and its all a bullet point presentation as this one. Never have seen the entire prophecy, I wonder if it exists. -pjbrownie
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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I read through the whole family history and was unable to find it. My mistake I assumed it would be there. I do not doubt that a man as great as he sounds in his history would have a vision of this nature though.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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I thought for sure I remembered seeing the complete text posted. I couldn't find it either so I guess my memory has short-circuited. Here's what I have:

A dream that Yohani Wolfgramm had in 1989 of seeing the future of America - as told to a close friend of mine.

"Many of you are familiar with the great Tongan patriarch, Yohani Wolfgramm, who died recently. On a recent trip, I talked to someone who was a close friend of Brother Wolfgramm's, and who recounted to me an experience that she had had around 1989, with Brother Wolfgramm. It was a dream of the cleansing of America.

A few years ago, I met an elderly lady. She had come to hear me speak and to see if I had the right spirit about me. After she felt that she could trust me, she invited me to her house to show me a few interesting things. Her late husband had worked for the church and had been the head of a unique historical church documents that were not available to the public. After his death, his wife was asked to help finish some of his work. She was assigned one of the apostles to help her. She had the same access to those same documents and allowed me to read through them. I visited her multiple times to read and discuss the documents. On one of those visits, she told me an interesting story about Patriarch Wolfgramm. She was acquainted with the patriarch, and during a serious illness somewhere around the year 1989, she asked him to give her a blessing. In the blessing, he told her that she would recover and yet have a great work to do. He foretold other things as wel, which prompted some questions in her mind about the future. So, after the blessing, she began asking him to clarify some of the things he said in the blessing.

He said in the third year of the second term of President Bush, the U.S. economy would collapse, which in turn would cause a series of events, including the invasion of foreign troops on U.S. soil.

This lady then commented to the patriarch that it must mean that President Bush (the first President Bush) would be re-elected. Patriarch Wolfgramm then replied (remember, this is 1989) that it wasn't that Pres. Bush, but that it was the son of Pres. Bush who would become president that he was referring to.

Here are a few salient points that he mentioned:

a. The big economic collapse which leads to chaos will occur in the last year of the 2nd term of the son of George Bush who will become president.

b. There will be a great drought at about this same time all over the country.

c. Many in the Church will become unrighteous and apostatize.

d. There will be a nuclear bomb or bombs go off in NOrthern Utah that will have an effect as far south as the Salt Lake Valley.

e. Hundreds of millions of foreign troops will invade America.

f. The main foreign force in the Utah area will be Chinese or Chinese-looking troops mixed with Latin American troops.

g. Great upheavals will occur all over. In the Wasatch front area, a tremendous earthquake will occur. The mountains and valleys will be rearranged.

h. The righteous will be spared while the unrighteous will be cleansed from the land by earthquake, flood and plague.

i. The rocky mountain area will then become a sacred, fruitful place where the righteous will gather.

Also, I just remembered something more of Wolfgramm's dream that was passed on. He said that there would come a time when most of America would be in ruins except one place. That place would be the Rocky Mountain area where there had been cleansing but some normalcy of society had returned. The President of the United States would come to the area and turn the Presidency of the United States over to the Prophet of the church saying something to the effect that there is no United States anymore except here."
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Allan South who had received this blessing where in brother Wolfgram had mentioned the event... and then who had asked brother Wolfgram some details about it. He was very clear on every point. -mullenite

I Know Allan and he recounted this blessing to me, but he told me it was a friend of he and his wife that received this blessing. I'll ask him again just to make sure it wasn't his blessing. As far as Allan goes, I can vouch for him. He's a great guy, down to earth and slow to speculation and hype. By the way, if you haven't purchased his survival manual " Sense of Survival", you better, VERY SOON!! -n8-r


With what Gruden said, we have two people saying they heard the story first hand from the person that received it from Iohani.

1-Gruden from that lady (therefore second hand to us as they recount it)
2-Mullenite (kind of) and n8-r from Allan who heard it from the person that received the blessing from Iohani (therefore third hand to us as they recount it)
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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http://wolfgramm.blogspot.com/

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?v ... &hideNav=1

http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com/20 ... story.html

http://contentdm.byu.edu/cdm4/document. ... SHOW=31478

http://books.google.com/books?id=ROp_24 ... al&f=false

http://aliitama.blogspot.com/

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library ... =undefined

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Post subject: Re: Wolfgram Prophecy of Economy Collapse !!
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I served as a councilor to Ensign Wolfgramm, Iohanni's nephew, throughout the 80's and early 90's. As a result of my relationship with Ensign, my wife and I had the wonderful opportunity to receive a blessing from Iohani.

I knew that Iohani had raised at least 2 people from the dead. One was his daughter, and Elder Oakes speaks of the event in one of his talks. (Also in the June 2001 Ensign http://lds.org/Static%20Files/PDF/Magaz ... Ensign.pdf Pages 13-14) I had the opportunity to talk to this daughter of Iohani and she told me about her experience of being run over by a car, having her head crushed, dieing, receiving a blessing from her father and coming back to life without any physical evidence that her head was crushed.

Another story I was told was that a relative of Iohani was in the LDS hospital and had died, It took over 2 days to get Iohanni to come and give him a blessing, as he was in California when his relative died. The staff at the LDS Hospital told the family of the dead man that they could not keep the dead body any longer in the hospital room and they were about to move him to the morgue. Finally Iohani got there and revived the dead relative.

The reason that Iohani had the gifts that he had is that he was so very humble and a true follower. He went on eight full time missions to Tonga. He told me that he visited the huts or doors of every person in Tonga, even the King and Queen. Tonga is now predominately Mormon, and some of that success is due to the efforts of the Lord working through Iohani.

My wife and I each received blessings from Iohani, my wife was told in her blessing that she would see the Savior and that she would witness the return of the city of Enoch. Mine was equally wonderful.

Iohani Wolfgramm did not mention to us the coming economic collapse when we met with him, but he did mention getting our lives ready for the Savior's return as he told us that His return would happen very soon.

Iohani's words have sunk deep into my heart. It was a great blessing.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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gruden wrote:Also, I just remembered something more of Wolfgramm's dream that was passed on. He said that there would come a time when most of America would be in ruins except one place. That place would be the Rocky Mountain area where there had been cleansing but some normalcy of society had returned. The President of the United States would come to the area and turn the Presidency of the United States over to the Prophet of the church saying something to the effect that there is no United States anymore except here."

If this is true, it explains why the Presidency of the church makes sure they meet the Presidents of the United States.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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I'm still waiting for the drought to happen.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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we had five inches ABOVE normal for the month of January.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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roserum wrote:
gruden wrote:Also, I just remembered something more of Wolfgramm's dream that was passed on. He said that there would come a time when most of America would be in ruins except one place. That place would be the Rocky Mountain area where there had been cleansing but some normalcy of society had returned. The President of the United States would come to the area and turn the Presidency of the United States over to the Prophet of the church saying something to the effect that there is no United States anymore except here."

If this is true, it explains why the Presidency of the church makes sure they meet the Presidents of the United States.



If this were true,would it not seem that Pres.Monson would have an opinion,insite, or something on this matter..........anyone heard any thing?
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Here was the source that I found:

Iohani's Tape from the Mission field
From Iohani Wolfgramm: Man of Faith and Vision, pp. 113-121
Compiled by: Tisina Wolfgramm Gerber
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Thanks PJ, I have that so I'll go back and look at those pages.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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pjbrownie wrote:I'm still waiting for the drought to happen.


You mean this one?
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Proud 2b Peculiar,
I went through all of those links, and like many of the others they do a good job of establishing the credibility of the amazing man Iohani Wolfgram, but none of them cite the vision/blessing in question here. I would love to get more information on the actual occurrence and some first hand documentation. For example, who is that lady that said she received it and can anyone get a confirmation from her. Or, who is the friend of Allan South (hopefully the same lady) and can we get a confirmation from that person?

I'll let you know what I find....

Gruden,
not to be the wet blanket here, but you should look at the current drought situation, not one that is old...http://drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html I think we still have some dry times to come if this vision is true and not something someone made up and attributed to an amazing person.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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My 2 cents. When I first read this, I had the impression that the drought mentioned was not one of water, if that makes sense. I ended up with that impression 3 times now.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Echo Lamoni's BFF....I would love to see link or source for the vision!
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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I have not been able to find any documentation so far on any link given in this thread or any thread on this entire forum that mentions Iohani. :(

proud 2b peculiar,
You said on another post I believe, "I want to let you know that I have verified this prophecy. Meaning that I have spoken to people that knew him and know his family." Could you elaborate on that? Who did you speak to, when, who did they say received it, when was it given?

Gruden,
You posted a story above about a Lady that works for church archives having been the person that received the blessing from Iohani. Did you write that yourself, or is it copied from somewhere? If you did write that, when did you talk to the lady? Who is she?
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Here is what my research has turned up on doing all the google searches I could think of for the various combinations of Yohani/Iohani Wolfgram prophecy/vision...

1 - Posted here http://216.92.158.36/Biblecodes/discus/ ... /1373.html on March 2005 by Richard Baldwin who's email is x@xx.com. I emailed him to see what he had to say about it.

2 - Found a reference to this URL http://www.pressie.org/DreamsJulyAugust2004.doc here http://www.ourchurch.com/view/?pageID=200868 showing the prophecy was available back in late summer of 2004

There are many places that have a reference to the document put together in the above link. I can't find anything further back than that. I did find a couple of people trying to provide authentication for the prophecy, but they all made money off something dealing with the prophecy or were friends of someone who did....
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Lamoni'sBFF wrote:Gruden,
not to be the wet blanket here, but you should look at the current drought situation, not one that is old...http://drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html I think we still have some dry times to come if this vision is true and not something someone made up and attributed to an amazing person.


2008 is after 1989, is it not? 2009 is very similar to 2008, which is similar (although expanded) from 2007... We really don't know precisely what year he was talking about, so to see what things look like in any of the last few years shows that we are facing serious drought conditions, both here and abroad. Is the one he's referencing worse than now? Maybe. Hard to say. Some people don't think the economy crashed in 2007-2008 in the final years of the Bush presidency either.

My source was a collection of stories. When you read up on Wolfgramm, you know his English wasn't the best, and he often gave blessings in his native tongue, and a family member (wife, I think) would bullet-point the highlights. So if you're looking for a word-for-word transcription, I don't think you're going to find it (how many write down each blessing they receive? Not many). Your best best is probably to study the scriptures and obtain the revelation for yourself, just like Wolfgramm did. He didn't achieve anything that no one else can do.

I posted a comparison between Wolfgramm's blessing/revelation and Sarah Menet's NDE description of latter-day events. They're quite similar, and you can search for it. If you're looking for something in-depth that generally agrees with Wolfgramm, that's the way to go.
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Thanks for the reply Gruden. I'll be honest and tell you that I put very little stock in what Menet has written, sorry. I personally put a lot more stock in what is attributed to Iohani (since I can't verify it for myself, I'll say attributed for now). I understand what you are saying about the drought, but I'm am looking for a cataclysmic drought. IE-one that "leads to chaos." Unless things get worse, I'm not seeing that in what we are or have been in recently. I'm not saying it won't occur, just that you can't point to what we have had and say that was it! You can say we are building to it though.

Just to clarify, you didn't speak to that lady that works for the church archives yourself, but that was one of the stories in your collection? Do you have any more information on her or whoever wrote that? I would love to follow up on those leads. My attempts here are to prove, not disprove BTW. I just don't feel comfortable accepting something so paradigm shifting w/o some verification. Also, I'm not looking really for the original text unless there is more than what I have.

Thanks
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Re: Iohanni Wolfgramm Prophecy questions

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Lamoni'sBFF

I admire your search for truth. I too had the same desire you have now a few years back. I searched and searched but could not find the true source of this quote. It is attributed to a conversation he had with one of his friends and then went all over the internet. I can not even find the original poster of the quote.
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