Mark of the Beast 667

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Mark of the Beast 667

Postby e-eye » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:41 am

I was just thinking about this a little lately. I know I am probably off base but there are some similarities if you look at it.

Could the mark of the beast be your credit score?

If you look at your credit and see how integrated it is in your life why wouldn't the mark of the beast be your credit score? It is getting to the point to where you can't borrow any money unless you have a good score. It affects your insurance, interest rate on cars, homes, credit cards. Employers pull your credit before they hire you in a lot of cases.

Did you know that the only way to not have a credit score is to go 6 months without any bills? All you have to do is close your credit cards and not have any installment loans or other debts and you go to a NA for a credit score.

I correlate this because I have thought why the Prophet would tell us to get out of debt and to stay out of debt. If you follow the advice then you would have no credit score.

Just food for thought but it makes more sense than someone implanting a chip in my head.
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Mark of the Beast 667

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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby Carlos » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:55 am

Credit score is too narrow. Consider debt. The world's financial system is built upon the foundation of debt and trust in man's government. Fiat currency is founded in debt. It is a false foundation, Satanic. Literally no man in the world buys or sells without debt. All people are burdened with this mark of debt. Either because of personal failure or collective governmental debt. The world trusts and worships our fantastic monetary system. Currencies carry the 'image' of the nation who created it. People pay homage to the 'image' of their nation. People are imprisoned and killed if they don't respect the 'image' (try making your own currency).

There is one currency in the world which is dominate, by which all other currencies are measured. It is the United States Dollar. One might say the USD is the 'image if the beast'. The greatest beast is man, the greatest nation is the United States. What is the number of it's name? United States Dollar. Each word in the name has 6 letters. The number of it's name, USD, is 666.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

This is not an ironclad explanation of the mark, but it seems to cover a good part of the puzzle. Also we can relate to this explanation as we strive to place our devotions in God and not materialism. We can strive to avoid the mark now, and not wring our hands over some future implant scheme.

Fortunately, when Zion is built, saints will not be burdened in debt and will not wear the mark of the beast. They will have the ability to opt out of Babylon. For now, we have the option to follow the counsel of the prophets and put our financial 'house' in order (free of personal debt).

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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby Original_Intent » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:47 am

Carlos wrote:Credit score is too narrow. Consider debt. The world's financial system is built upon the foundation of debt and trust in man's government. Fiat currency is founded in debt. It is a false foundation, Satanic. Literally no man in the world buys or sells without debt. All people are burdened with this mark of debt. Either because of personal failure or collective governmental debt. The world trusts and worships our fantastic monetary system. Currencies carry the 'image' of the nation who created it. People pay homage to the 'image' of their nation. People are imprisoned and killed if they don't respect the 'image' (try making your own currency).

There is one currency in the world which is dominate, by which all other currencies are measured. It is the United States Dollar. One might say the USD is the 'image if the beast'. The greatest beast is man, the greatest nation is the United States. What is the number of it's name? United States Dollar. Each word in the name has 6 letters. The number of it's name, USD, is 666.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

This is not an ironclad explanation of the mark, but it seems to cover a good part of the puzzle. Also we can relate to this explanation as we strive to place our devotions in God and not materialism. We can strive to avoid the mark now, and not wring our hands over some future implant scheme.

Fortunately, when Zion is built, saints will not be burdened in debt and will not wear the mark of the beast. They will have the ability to opt out of Babylon. For now, we have the option to follow the counsel of the prophets and put our financial 'house' in order (free of personal debt).

Carlos

Nice stab but verse 18 says the number is six hundred, threescore and six. this does not mean three sixes, such as three words with six letters each (Unless it is a mis-translation, possible but I certainly wouldn't base anything on it.) Much more likely is it is the translation of a name into numbers using Gematria.
http://www.inner.org/gematria/gemchart.htm
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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby Carlos » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:57 am

Original_Intent wrote:Nice stab but verse 18 says the number is six hundred, threescore and six. this does not mean three sixes, such as three words with six letters each (Unless it is a mis-translation, possible but I certainly wouldn't base anything on it.) Much more likely is it is the translation of a name into numbers using Gematria.
http://www.inner.org/gematria/gemchart.htm

Sorry, people have been using gematria combinations for almost 2 thousand years and haven't come up with anything comprehensive and inclusive enough to satisfy all the pieces of the puzzle. People have pointed fingers at Popes, Nero, Ronald Regan, and dozens of other leaders since John wrote. But they are just that...finger pointing without explaining how those accusations blend with the rest of the scripture. In reality, 666=USD is not as strong as I'd wish, but it fits our current world monetary system, something John would probably consider apocalyptic.

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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby Original_Intent » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:26 pm

I read an article years ago saying that VISA was the number of the beast (as in the credit card). I don;t remember the details but it was something to the effect that "VI" is obviously the Roman numeral 6, and the claim was that the "S" character related to the number 60 in some other language and the "A" was 600 in another language.

And yes, I know there a gazillion Gemtria interpretations out there, again I think many of them hold more water than "United States Dollar" based on 6 letters in each word - that's very, very thin.
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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby Carlos » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:20 pm

Original_Intent wrote:And yes, I know there a gazillion Gemtria interpretations out there, again I think many of them hold more water than "United States Dollar" based on 6 letters in each word - that's very, very thin.

Ok, I respect your knowledge of other ideas. I'm not that well read. What better ideas out there incorporate:
An 'image' which the everyone worships.
Severe consequences to those who do not respect (worship) the image.
A 'mark/name/number of the name' connected to a world wide system of trade.
All people who engage in commerce must participate in the system.

What I briefly presented in the first post tries to incorporate all of these elements. I have yet to find something that believably incorporates more than one or two (VISA, barcodes, and implants are wild guesses which hold no continuity with the rest of the criteria). Whereas, modern fiat currency matches much better.

Interestingly, for me, the 'Beast' is man's government designed to be the 'Savior of men'...the anti-christ. The current flavor of that system of government which has infiltrated all nations of this globe is Utopian Socialism. The hope of mankind. The thing which keeps this beast alive is fiat currency, plain and simple. Without the ability to easily take and spend other peoples money, socialism dies. Our monetary system was created by the international bankers (a shadow government. if you will, the 2 horned lambbeast), specifically at Bretton Woods spearheaded by the US and GB in an effort to 'heal' the wounded European nations and firmly entrench socialism as the 'miracle government system'. It worked well and has shown the world fantastic miracles by materialistically funding and motivating technology, wars, and personal wealth. This is the governmental system Satan endorses in our time. It replaced the conquering empires of olden times and is subduing the righteous through the pocket book. I would venture to say that even the very elect are deceived by this modern anti-christ.

Look, I know there are lots of ideas put out by lots of people. I happen to like this one. Besides the USD, what parts of this scenario don't fit Rev 13?

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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby e-eye » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:54 pm

An 'image' which the everyone worships.
Severe consequences to those who do not respect (worship) the image.
A 'mark/name/number of the name' connected to a world wide system of trade.
All people who engage in commerce must participate in the system.


This is why I posed this question and I know I am probably not right but there are some similarities

An image which everyone worships - just about everybody worships thier credit score. Think about it... It's a status thing. Just about everybody seeks after good credit.

A 'mark/name/number of the name' connected to a world wide system of trade.- ever heard of global fico - worldwide

All people who engage in commerce must participate in the system.[/color] - well you can't borrow without good credit nor can you borrow if you have no credit.

If you take the prophets advice to stay out of debt you would have no credit scores.

Serioysly though I am just posting as I really don't know what exactly the mark is and you know what, if it's such a big deal most of the later day saints probably won't know what it is either until it's all said and done.
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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby Original_Intent » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:23 pm

Look at verse 15. How do either of these ideas apply to the beast being givent he power to speak, and all who would not worship the image of the beast be killed?

I thought (and I could be very easily mistaken) that it was well established that the beast, the antichrist and his prophet represented Lucifer (beast), a person who would embody the spirit of antichrist, and another person that would be his (the antichrist's) prophet.

Revelation clearly talks about a mark in the hand or in the forehead without which one cannot trade. I don;t see how that applies to either the USD or the credit score.

Enlighten me :)
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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby shadow » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:29 pm

e-eye wrote:If you take the prophets advice to stay out of debt you would have no credit scores.

Honestly, I don't mean to argue all your points (from the mortgage threads) :lol: ! The prophets recognize things like home loans, car loans, student loans etc. In fact, the church has the perpetual education fund that loans money to LDS's to go to school. They are then required (asked to) pay it back. A prophet will not on one hand say don't go into debt, but on the other hand say here, borrow this money.

Clark Howard sides with you on having no credit score, even if he has to pay more on things like insurance. Personally, I'm done with the "system".
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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby e-eye » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:36 pm

Original_Intent wrote:Look at verse 15. How do either of these ideas apply to the beast being givent he power to speak, and all who would not worship the image of the beast be killed?

I thought (and I could be very easily mistaken) that it was well established that the beast, the antichrist and his prophet represented Lucifer (beast), a person who would embody the spirit of antichrist, and another person that would be his (the antichrist's) prophet.

Revelation clearly talks about a mark in the hand or in the forehead without which one cannot trade. I don;t see how that applies to either the USD or the credit score.

Enlighten me :)


I can agree with that. I was just putting some ideas out there and wanted some feedback. Thanks
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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby e-eye » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:42 pm

shadow wrote:
e-eye wrote:If you take the prophets advice to stay out of debt you would have no credit scores.

Honestly, I don't mean to argue all your points (from the mortgage threads) :lol: ! The prophets recognize things like home loans, car loans, student loans etc. In fact, the church has the perpetual education fund that loans money to LDS's to go to school. They are then required (asked to) pay it back. A prophet will not on one hand say don't go into debt, but on the other hand say here, borrow this money.

Clark Howard sides with you on having no credit score, even if he has to pay more on things like insurance. Personally, I'm done with the "system".



No I agree with you I am really not pushing this thread as a conviction of mine like I was about mortages and defaulting on them on the other thread. I don't post here on this forum very often but I have followed it pretty close over the past year and half so I know if you post something get ready to have some thick skin. I don't take offense to it like many people who show up and get mad and dissapear. I think a portion of the stuff that is posted is just out in left field but their is some really valuable stuff here too.
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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby Carlos » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:40 am

Original_Intent wrote:Look at verse 15. How do either of these ideas apply to the beast being givent he power to speak, and all who would not worship the image of the beast be killed?

I thought (and I could be very easily mistaken) that it was well established that the beast, the antichrist and his prophet represented Lucifer (beast), a person who would embody the spirit of antichrist, and another person that would be his (the antichrist's) prophet.

Revelation clearly talks about a mark in the hand or in the forehead without which one cannot trade. I don;t see how that applies to either the USD or the credit score.

Enlighten me :)


Yes there are 3 beasts. The red dragon from heaven (Satan), a beast which looks like the dragon but came up out of the sea, and a 2 horned lamb beast which came up out of the earth. I believe that the sea is a metaphor for the gentile nations and the earth is a representation of the promised land, United States. The beast from the sea is worshiped by the whole world. Given our time, I really doubt there will be an individual (anti-christ) which will command that kind of worldwide devotion. Think Chinese, Muslims, Christians, atheists. It is highly unlikely that everyone will look to one man as their Savior. On the other hand, the vast majority of the world has already been conditioned to admire the power of modern governments to solve their problems. We even expect our governments to do great miracles like change the climate.

Think imagery and symbolism. When you see the word 'worship' don't think of church, think devotion, respect, trust. In our day money is a god because of our very materialistic system. Money comes from government. Today's form of democratic socialism in effect elevates humanity to godhood because government is created by people (democracy). Rev. speaks of people worshiping the Beast from the sea and the image of the beast; socialist government and money.

When Christ was asked about taxes he pointed to a coin and asked whose 'image' was on it...Caesars. Today, whose image is on currency? The government who created it. Who created modern fiat curency? International bankers at Bretton Woods at the end of WWII. How does the image speak? Metaphorically money talks. It motivates, it is a 'language' of it's own...think imagery and symbolism.

Verse 15 says people are killed if they don't worship. In real life people are destroyed if they don't respect the 'image of the beast'/currency. On a personal level, try counterfeiting, try money fraud, there are countless laws protecting a government's currency. On an international level, try crossing the IMF and World Bank. Nations are literally enslaved because of their lack of respect for money (debt). Look at the mess in Zimbabwe, or (allegedly) Iraq tried to opt out of receiving USD in payment for oil. If you liken the scripture to our time, I think you can see the correlation. If you want to be literal, I think you'll be waiting a long time for fulfillment.

Rev speaks of the mark on the hand and forehead. During the 6th seal in Rev 7 it says that the elect will be marked on their foreheads. Marking is a symbol of devotion. My personal opinion is that the mark on the hand is a symbol of your eagerness to acquire material things, a mark on the forehead represents a life whose priority is acquisition of wealth. Unlike the righteous who wear the mark on their foreheads and humbly place their love of God first in their lives.

If we are living in the time John saw then our world can be 'likened' to his vision. If not, then we can continue to speculate on what the future may bring. They've been doing that for 2000 years and there are thousands of ideas. We, in 2010, uniquely have the ability to look at the Rev of John as symbolic reality.

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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby Original_Intent » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:49 am

Carlos,

I seriously don;t intend to be rude, but I don;t know how to say this without coming across rude. If most of your explanations were a decent fit and on one or two things you had to make a stretch, that would be one thing, but to me it seems like every aspect of what you are saying is a huge stretch. It seems like you have decided in advance what you want something to mean and then you torture the meaning that you want out of the words.

Certainly there is nothing wrong with throwing theories around, I'd say it is one of the primary functions of the forums. And I am sorry to be so critical, but it really seems like you are wrestling the meanings that you want out of the words.

Here is an example:

Rev speaks of the mark on the hand and forehead. During the 6th seal in Rev 7 it says that the elect will be marked on their foreheads. Marking is a symbol of devotion. My personal opinion is that the mark on the hand is a symbol of your eagerness to acquire material things, a mark on the forehead represents a life whose priority is acquisition of wealth. Unlike the righteous who wear the mark on their foreheads and humbly place their love of God first in their lives


It also says that those who do not receive the mark are UNABLE to buy or sell. So according to your idea this means that unless a person is "eager to acquire material things" (your interpretation for the mark on the hand) they will be unable to buy or sell. That doesn't make sense.
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Re: Mark of the Beast 667

Postby hedgehog » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:23 am

Mark of the Beast 616

Sorry if this was mentioned earlier.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/11134

The tiny fragment of 1,500-year-old papyrus is written in Greek, the original language of the New Testament, and contains a key passage from the Book of Revelation.
...
Where more conventional versions of the Bible give 666 as the “number of the beast,” or the sign of the anti-Christ whose coming is predicted in the book’s apocalyptic verses, the older version uses the Greek letters signifying 616.

“This is very early confirmation of that number, earlier than any other text we’ve found of that passage,” Dr. Aitken said. “It’s probably about 100 years before any other version.”

The fragment was part of a hoard of previously illegible manuscripts discovered in an ancient garbage dump outside the Egyptian city of Oxyrhynchus. Although the papyrus was first excavated in 1895, it was badly discoloured and damaged. Classics scholars at Oxford University were only recently able to read it using new advanced imaging techniques.
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