What if the mark of the Beast is NOT an RFID chip?

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

I wonder if Mark will weigh in on what the mark is.

If you ask some people on this forum mate they will tell you that I am the mark of the beast and my DNA will somehow get implanted into your forehead or right hand if you aren't careful.

Actually the truth of the matter is that I think Apostate Christianity has literalized those spiritual prophesies and figurative signs to the point of argumentum ad ridiculum. (Hows that three?) John clearly says that those who worship the beast and receive the mark will be tormented forever with fire and brimstone. In other words they will be BBQing with thermite for a long long time. Now for this to happen I would say someone would have to have done something much more dramatic than take a flu shot or get a Visa card implant to buy groceries.

[Rosabellacaptain of 1,000]

I wonder if Mark will weigh in on what the mark is.

Actually the truth of the matter is that I think Apostate Christianity has literalized those spiritual prophesies and figurative signs to the point of argumentum ad ridiculum. (Hows that three?) John clearly says that those who worship the beast and receive the mark will be tormented forever with fire and brimstone. In other words they will be BBQing with thermite for a long long time. Now for this to happen I would say someone would have to have done something much more dramatic than take a flu shot or get a Visa card implant to buy groceries.

I concur. Though if it is made clear that you have to take initiations (oaths and covenants) with Lucifer and denounce that there is a God to be a recipient of such visa card implant than we have the dramatic version that we are looking for. That is what the occult has planned in the initiations that they have well documented. It will not be a mark that is easily confused. Just as our endowments are not easily confused to be something else when we receive them. It is hard to imagine a world so wicked that people would choose to take oaths and covenants with Lucifer but they are already doing it. We sadly have entered that time. Now it is being done privately but soon when the world is more ripe they plan on doing it on a world scale. See my earlier post.

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

I wonder if Mark will weigh in on what the mark is.

Actually the truth of the matter is that I think Apostate Christianity has literalized those spiritual prophesies and figurative signs to the point of argumentum ad ridiculum. (Hows that three?) John clearly says that those who worship the beast and receive the mark will be tormented forever with fire and brimstone. In other words they will be BBQing with thermite for a long long time. Now for this to happen I would say someone would have to have done something much more dramatic than take a flu shot or get a Visa card implant to buy groceries.

I concur. Though if it is made clear that you have to take initiations (oaths and covenants) with Lucifer and denounce that there is a God to be a recipient of such visa card implant than we have the dramatic version that we are looking for. That is what the occult has planned in the initiations that they have well documented. It will not be a mark that is easily confused. Just as our endowments are not easily confused to be something else when we receive them. It is hard to imagine a world so wicked that people would choose to take oaths and covenants with Lucifer but they are already doing it. We sadly have entered that time. Now it is being done privately but soon when the world is more ripe they plan on doing it on a world scale. See my earlier post.

Indeed Bella. Hey have you heard anymore about that spooky Maitreya dude? I had thought that Creme was going to make him more visable. Also anything more about "The Elders" (talk about an adversarial imitation!) brought together by Mandela of which Peanuts Carter was one of the chosen ones? Calm before the storm?

[Rosabellacaptain of 1,000]

Mark

Here is something interesting. The Elders is scary just as the group that is known to the world by that name:

http://www.theelders.org/"

"The Elders do not hold public office and have no political or legislative power. Because they are not bound by the interests of any single nation, government or institution, they are free to speak boldly and with whomever they choose on any issue, and to take any action that they believe is right."

When undertaking initiatives, the Elders are committed to listening to the views of all groups and individuals – and especially women and young people. The Elders work both publicly and behind the scenes and at all levels - local, national and international - lending support and advice when invited, and sometimes when it is not."

They are above the nations of the world? And even lending support and advice when it is not asked for and behind the scenes.


Check this reference out that Barbara Marx Hubbard says about people she calls the Elders:

http://watchmannewsletter.typepad.com/news/2009/02/citizens-solutions-for-the-new-era-barbara-marx-hubbard-video.html

Pastor Joe Schimmel, in his article "The Coming Persecution" explains:

http://www.blessedhopechapel.org/articl ... ution.html

I own Barbara Marz Hubbard's books and this quote by Joe Schimmel is quite accurate.

New Age leader, Barbara Marx Hubbard has stated, "people will either change or die," for "that is the choice." According to those who would concur with Hubbard, Christians will need to be more open minded so they too can receive the mark of the Antichrist. If they will not join with the global community and its agenda, they will be killed by the "opened minded" New Agers. She states that, "This act is as horrible as killing a cancer cell. It must be done (or the sake of the future of the whole. So be it; be prepared for the selection process which is now beginning. We, the elders, have been patiently waiting until the very last moment before the quantum transformation, to take action to cut out this corrupted and corrupting element in the body of humanity. It is like watching a cancer grow; something must be done before the whole body is destroyed.... The destructive one fourth must be eliminated from the social body."


She talks about the "elders" in her books. They are the ones that will decided the selection process (who lives and who dies) It is very interesting that we have The Elders that are now out in the open.... I think there is much more to this then just a simple Coincidencec of in names. I have been waiting for a group called "The Elders" to emerge. I find it more than interesting that it has been created and who is part of it.

As for Maitreya his still up to his old stuff. No emergence yet, but still says it will be soon. He is mostly focusing on the destruction of governments and the "Space Brothers/Aliens comming to be known outwardly in the world.

http://www.share-international.org/maga ... revelation

He says:

"Far from quiet acceptance of unpopular laws, peoples in many countries now demonstrate and demand change. With the exception of those countries under tight military rule, the people, more and more, are demanding to be heard, to have their needs addressed, and bad laws righted. As the beneficent energies of Aquarius gain in potency, this growing power of the people will multiply and become the most powerful voice on Earth. So much is this the case, even now, that governments of all kinds are forced to take account of the peoples’ reaction to laws which deeply concern their welfare. It becomes increasingly difficult for governments to govern along strictly factional lines. Much government action is secretive and obscure, much is done ‘behind the scenes’ of which the people never hear, but generally, governments, at least in the so-called ‘democratic’ world, are careful not to rouse the ire or discontent of the people.'

Major area

There is one major area in which this is assuredly not the case. For over sixty years, governments worldwide have withheld from the people the reality of ‘UFOs’ or ‘flying saucers’. Further, they have sought by all means to denigrate the occupants of these visiting craft as ‘aliens’, destructive and harmful to the people of Earth. To keep their populations under control, and to avoid ‘panic’, they have denied the experience of hundreds of thousands of intelligent, open-minded citizens. They have thus created a major myth: “‘flying saucers’ do not exist but they are dangerous and rapacious to men of Earth”! Likewise, they have taught the people to deride the notion that crop circles are a legacy from Space, yet every government has unassailable proof of the existence, creativity and superior technology of these brave and harmless visitors from the sister planets of our System. Our profound ignorance of the subtle planes of matter has allowed the major governments of the world to maintain this deception for so long.

Revelation

At last the time of revelation has arrived. For no longer will government agencies hide the truth from men of Earth: their brotherhood with the far-off planets of our Solar System. Already, the “star-like luminary”, the Herald of Maitreya’s emergence, is showing people worldwide that for years they have been deceived by their governments. You may be sure that Maitreya will reveal the truth of our relationship with the other planets, and of the co-operation which for long has continued between us. It is in truth the time of revelation."

Maitreya believes in the distruction of Governement of the world. To tear down the old to build "his" new governmental structure. That will be done with the assistance of the Space Brothers. They are explained to be the fallen angels, not just merely extratrestrials as many think they mean. They admit they are the Masters of Wisdom that include Lucifer as the God of the planet.

[LDSNZcaptain of 100]

“No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation.”

David Spangler is Director of Planetary Initiative for the United Nations.

[Rosabellacaptain of 1,000]

“No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation.”

David Spangler is Director of Planetary Initiative for the United Nations.

If you could share the reference for this I would appreciate it. There are many locations on the internet and in books that refer to him holding this title but I have not found one that is an original, just hearsay. I have lots of data on David Spangler, but no true foundation for this title. He was with Findhorn Foundation and they are connected with the UN.

Quote from http://www.Findhorn.org

"On December 8, 1997 the Findhorn Foundation was approved for formal association with the United Nations, through the Department of Public Information, as a recognised Non-Governmental Organisation. This was the culmination of a series of official collaborations between the UN and the Findhorn Foundation."

Quote from http://www.Findhorn.org under history;

'In 1970 a young American spiritual teacher named David Spangler arrived in the community and with his partner Myrtle Glines helped to define and organise the spiritual education processes that have been a central pillar of the Findhorn community ever since. A curriculum was established and the work of the ‘University of Light’ began. David and Myrtle lived in the community for three years, during which Findhorn Press published many of David's visionary writings. Today we run almost 200 week-long courses every year as well as conferences, trainings and our busy Outreach programme of educational workshops taken around the world by our workshop leaders.'

http://www.Lorian.org
This is from Lorian Association regarding David's Bio.

"Who is David Spangler?

Since 1964 David Spangler has been an author and teacher of spirituality. He began his career at nineteen as the keynote speaker at a national conference in Phoenix, Arizona, on "Youth and the New Age." The success of that talk led to other invitations, and a year later he left college, where he was studying molecular biology, and under guidance from inner sources, moved to Los Angeles where he became a featured speaker at the Fellowship of Universal Guidance.

This led to further invitations from other groups, and in 1966 he moved to Redwood City on the San Francisco peninsula where he taught classes and lectured on spirituality, the Western Esoteric Tradition, and practical mysticism.

In 1970 he visited the Findhorn Foundation community in Northern Scotland where he was invited to become its co-director and to be a teacher-in-residence. He lived and worked in the community until 1973, becoming the founder of its educational program.

Along with several friends and colleagues from Findhorn, he returned to the United States in 1973, and in 1974 he joined with them to create the Lorian Association, a non-profit spiritual educational foundation, which remains to this day the organization for which he works. In 1984, the Lorian Association moved to Issaquah, Washington where it is today.

In the years following his return from Scotland, David has developed and taught classes at a number of institutions, including the University of Wisconsin, Seattle University, Bastyr University, and the California Institute of Integral Studies. Also, since 1974 he has been a Fellow of the Lindisfarne Association—an association of scientists, artists, philosophers, economists, and spiritual leaders working at the cutting edge of scientific and cultural transformation.

His current work involves developing and teaching a spiritual practice called Incarnational Spirituality. His books include Emergence; The Call; Everyday Miracles; Parent as Mystic, Mystic as Parent; Blessing: The Art and the Practice; The Story Tree; Manifestation: Creating the Life You Love; and The Incarnation Card Deck.

David is happily married to Julia Manchester whom he met at Findhorn in 1971. They have four children ranging in age from twenty-five to fourteen. He considers being a parent his primary spiritual practice."



If you have any other data backing that he was the Director of Planetary Initiative for the United Nations that would be very helpful. Right now there does not appear to be verifiable data in support of this common claim. It would be tremendously momentous if it can be verified. This does not in anyway negate the centrality of his role in the establishment of a world wide Luciferian Church and global government.

Thanks for your help.

[kathyncaptain of 1,000]

Thanks again Bella for new information. I had not heard of "the elders" before. It seems like we're approaching some winding up scenes for the NWO now.

[ready2preparecaptain of 1,000]

If you have any other data backing that he was the Director of Planetary
Initiative for the United Nations that would be very helpful. Right now
there does not appear to be verifiable data in support of this common
claim. It would be tremendously momentous if it can be verified. This
does not in anyway negate the centrality of his role in the establishment
of a world wide Luciferian Church and global government.

Thanks for your help.

I have evidence that Spangler was a Board member of Planetary
Initiative For the World We Choose at this link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=cYg6H2 ... er&f=false

The address of this group at one time was:
Planetary Initiative for the World We Choose
c/o Planetary Citizens
777 United Nations Plaza
New York, New York 10017
U.S.A.

Info obtained at this link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=JRhl-v ... 22&f=false

More info to follow shortly.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Sharon (Making the Best of Basics) in Mississippi

[ready2preparecaptain of 1,000]

OK Bella, here's some more good stuff for 'ya:

In early 1982 Planetary Citizens and several other groups kicked
off a consciousness-raising project called "Planetary Initiative for
the World We Choose," a "coalition effort which involve[d] literally
hundreds of groups and organizations, large and small, worldwide."
Study groups were formed, a newspaper called The Initiator was
published and much attention was drawn to the world order
movement.

Founded in 1972 by Donald Keys, a long-time consultant to United
Nations delegations and committees, Planetary Citizens attracted a
huge and impressive roster of leaders--such as New Age Luminaries
David Spangler and Peter Caddy (both formerly of Findhorn
Community), William Irwin Thompson, Willis Harman (futurist), Edgar
Mitchell (ex-astronaut) and Michael Murphy (of Esalen Institute).

Distinguished members have included Isaac Asimov, Rene Dubos and
the current honorary chairman (as of 1986) Norman Cousins.

The Planetary Initiative culminated in a Planetary Congress in Toronto
in June of 1983. Nearly five hundred people (including New Age notables
Barbara Marx Hubbard and Ram Dass) from twenty countries met for
the four-day event. The congress published its results in the Initiator
as the "Declaration on the World We Choose." The document covered a
gamut of topics concerning ecology, economics, politics, spirituality, etc.,
and also trumpeted the need for a new economic order, a stronger
United Nations and a centralized global government.

Hmmm maybe at least some of this "New World Order" conspiracy stuff
has some basis, after all, huh?

More info at this link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=cYg6H2 ... 22&f=false

Best Regards,
Sharon (Making the Best of Basics) in Mississippi

[ready2preparecaptain of 1,000]

The information below will hopefully clarify what Spangler was
referring to as the "Luciferian Initiation."

"The true light of Lucifer cannot be seen through sorrow,
through darkness, through rejection. The true light of
this great being can only be recognized when one's own
eyes can see with the light of the Christ, the light of the
inner sun. Lucifer works within each of us to bring us to
wholeness, and as we move into a new age, which is the
age of man's wholeness, each of us, in some way is brought
to that point which I term the Luciferic Initiation, the
particular doorway through which the individual must pass if
he is to come fully into the presence of his light and his
wholeness..

Lucifer comes to give us the final gift of wholeness. If we
accept it, then he is free and we are free. That is the
Luciferic Initiation. it is one that many people now, and in the
days ahead, will be facing, for it is an initiation into the New
Age. It is an initiation of leaving the past and moving into the
new, shedding our guilts and fears, our anxieties, our needs, our
temptations, and becoming whole and at peace because we have
recognized our inner light and the light that enfolds us, the
light of God."
-- David Spangler, Reflections on the Christ

Source:
http://www.skepticfiles.org/aj/newage.htm

Best Regards,
Sharon (Making the Best of Basics) in Mississippi

[LDSNZcaptain of 100]

Awesome. Good stuff Sharon

[ithinkcaptain of 1,000]

I wonder if Mark will weigh in on what the mark is.

If you ask some people on this forum mate they will tell you that I am the mark of the beast and my DNA will somehow get implanted into your forehead or right hand if you aren't careful.

Actually the truth of the matter is that I think Apostate Christianity has literalized those spiritual prophesies and figurative signs to the point of argumentum ad ridiculum. (Hows that three?) John clearly says that those who worship the beast and receive the mark will be tormented forever with fire and brimstone. In other words they will be BBQing with thermite for a long long time. Now for this to happen I would say someone would have to have done something much more dramatic than take a flu shot or get a Visa card implant to buy groceries.

I agree that caution is required in defining the Mark -- er, mark (small m). John says nobody could buy or sell unless they had the mark of the beast, but I can buy and sell in ways that do not require a visa card or a chip. However, there are "universal" systems that could be expanded so that they are the only way to buy or sell, and with the technology of the day, what seemed impossible certainly is not any longer.

[reesecaptain of 1,000]

I wonder if Mark will weigh in on what the mark is.

Actually the truth of the matter is that I think Apostate Christianity has literalized those spiritual prophesies and figurative signs to the point of argumentum ad ridiculum. (Hows that three?) John clearly says that those who worship the beast and receive the mark will be tormented forever with fire and brimstone. In other words they will be BBQing with thermite for a long long time. Now for this to happen I would say someone would have to have done something much more dramatic than take a flu shot or get a Visa card implant to buy groceries.

I concur. Though if it is made clear that you have to take initiations (oaths and covenants) with Lucifer and denounce that there is a God to be a recipient of such visa card implant than we have the dramatic version that we are looking for. That is what the occult has planned in the initiations that they have well documented. It will not be a mark that is easily confused. Just as our endowments are not easily confused to be something else when we receive them. It is hard to imagine a world so wicked that people would choose to take oaths and covenants with Lucifer but they are already doing it. We sadly have entered that time. Now it is being done privately but soon when the world is more ripe they plan on doing it on a world scale. See my earlier post.

So I have a question. How can, as we are told in the parable of the ten virgins and others, it be possible that 50% of "good, active, assuming they are worthy to be with the Lord" members of the LDS chuch be so blinded as to take a satanic oath? I agree that it will be a line drawn in the sand sort of thing and we will all have to chose whom we serve. I just wonder how members of this chruch can be so fooled that they would actually be on satans side when the Lord comes and not know it. And as Mark said earlier the punishment for being on satans side is severe, which makes one think that the Lord expects us to be aware of what we are doing and what is happening so we are not fooled by satan. What do you think?

[Rosabellacaptain of 1,000]

Well from my perspective I sadly can see it happen. For it is happening right now. Many members are fully embracing new age occult teachings as truth. At first they are unaware of what these teachings really are, then once they have gotten deep enough in they start believing it over the LDS faith. I was told by the GAs that this would be a major cause of the seperation of the wheat and tares. I can not even count the amount of people that have already left the church or have started to doubt basic doctrines due to their readings of books and watching self-help DVDs etc.

When you add the persecution against being LDS which will occur in the near future (and has just started), the number of members that have the strength to endure decreases further. When your life is on the line you can tend to want to believe in what can save your life, deceiving yourself that you have changed your mind.

The new age occult (the fastest growing Spritual way of thinking) has clearly written that they plan to destroy all those that believe in the God of the Christians, Jews, and Muslims. They intend to kill them if they do not give up their religions. But first they plan to convert as many as possible to their "Spirituality" Which they are readily doing. They do not tell you right off their full plans, but the plans are nevertheless right their in their writtings, they just do not advertise that part. It is said to be for the good of the whole planet that some have to be killed off, it is like killing cancer cells. It is for the good of all. People are getting blind enough to believe that. So yes 50% of the active members could easily be lost.

There are sadly many that will not be able to live the law of consecration (even ones that thought they could) for it is not an easy law to live as we were shown when it was attempted to be established during the time of Joseph Smith. With all these things combined we are easily at 50%.

Keep in mind it is a slow boiling that takes place to change the hearts of people. Sin sneaks in, fear, pride, etc. If the world starts to have "miracles" that seem to be from a "Christ" figure, many will choose to follow what is a sign over what is based on faith.

We have not in recent generations felt the pains of poverty, disease, persecution, etc. These kinds of trials will test the elect to their core. Some will not withstand the pressures and will curse God or lose all faith in a God. Once they have done that and have lost the Spirit they are easy prey to Lucifer's plan and his lies. They will readily take his initiations for they will be promised relief from their sufferings or be threatened with their lives. If men choose to join Lucifer to save their mortal life they will lose their eternal life.

If we read the tribulations that are on our horizons we are told that the faithful will cry day and night to God for relief from their sufferings.

Heber C Kimball prophesied that after the Saints have put themselves in financial bondage because of their extravigance and financial speculation.

"Persecution comes next and all true Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. Many will apostatize and other will be still not knowing what to do. Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to tests that will try the integrity of the best of them. The pressure will become so great that the more righteous among them will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes."

Deseret News, Church Department, page 3 May 23, 1931

During the testing Lucifer will be appearing as an angel of light. Not a dark scary demon. That is why many will follow him as they are right now. He will teach peace, love and security. All he will ask is that we abandon our antiquated belief in a Father in heaven and believe that we ourselves are all collectively god and the he is our teacher of this truth, therefore he becomes our God.

[Rosabellacaptain of 1,000]

ready2prepare

Thanks for all your hard work and research! I will research this data and see what qualifies as verifible documentation. In authoring I have to be very careful that everything is well documented and not use any hearsay. Thank you for all your great infromation!

Bella

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

I can not even count the amount of people that have already left the church or have started to doubt basic doctrines due to their readings of books and watching self-help DVDs etc.

I am just to tired to get into this tonight but Bella is hitting on something that is very important. Much of the millions of self help stuff out there is based upon the philosophy that you are the master of your own ship and you can accomplish anything or make any amount of money with proper attitudes and focus. God begins to lose His importance and focus in your life and personal achievement based on ones own accomplishments takes presidence. Therefore we are lulled into a carnal security thinking that all our successes in life are a result of our own efforts and hard work. We stop confessing Gods hand and become Gods unto ourselves. Wealth and achievement becomes our focus and priority pushing out the need for a Savior. It is a vicious cycle of pride and lack of credit given to our Creator for even the very breath we take.

In 3 Nephi 6:15 it says regarding the Nephites that Satan had obtained great power over the people by tempting them to seek for power and authority and the riches and vain things of the world. Have things changed much since then?

[reesecaptain of 1,000]

When you add the persecution against being LDS which will occur in the near future (and has just started), the number of members that have the strength to endure decreases further. When your life is on the line you can tend to want to believe in what can save your life, deceiving yourself that you have changed your mind.



There are sadly many that will not be able to live the law of consecration (even ones that thought they could) for it is not an easy law to live as we were shown when it was attempted to be established during the time of Joseph Smith. With all these things combined we are easily at 50%.

Yes I can see what you are saying. I guess you are just opening my mind to things I have never considered before. I do not want to be decieved by satan. It sounds as though its not going to be as simple as black and white, which side are you on? I have pondered that quote from Heber C. Kimball a lot, trying to imagine what types of things could try the saints to their very limits.

[reesecaptain of 1,000]

I can not even count the amount of people that have already left the church or have started to doubt basic doctrines due to their readings of books and watching self-help DVDs etc.

I am just to tired to get into this tonight but Bella is hitting on something that is very important. Much of the millions of self help stuff out there is based upon the philosophy that you are the master of your own ship and you can accomplish anything or make any amount of money with proper attitudes and focus. God begins to lose His importance and focus in your life and personal achievement based on ones own accomplishments takes presidence. Therefore we are lulled into a carnal security thinking that all our successes in life are a result of our own efforts and hard work. We stop confessing Gods hand and become Gods unto ourselves. Wealth and achievement becomes our focus and priority pushing out the need for a Savior. It is a vicious cycle of pride and lack of credit given to our Creator for even the very breath we take.

In 3 Nephi 6:15 it says regarding the Nephites that Satan had obtained great power over the people by tempting them to seek for power and authority and the riches and vain things of the world. Have things changed much since then?

I am beginning to understand. I read 'The Secret' a year or so ago. It sounded good, you know, you make things happen in your life. Anything, even healing yourself. I thought a lot about it but something was off. I could not quite make it fit with the gospel so all of its "potential" got put on the back burner of my mind, until now. I can see how it is satan's twist on truth. But I obviously did not recognise it as satanic. That is frightening to me. If I remember correctly it was quite a hot topic for a while, I think I watched something on Oprah about it.

[Rosabellacaptain of 1,000]

Mark: yes that is what I am saying thank you for explaining it.

Reese:

You really do understand it. Yes "The Secret" is twisted truth or you could say doctrines of devils, most of the writings of the Law of Attraction were channeled by spirit entities. There is a difference between the Law of Attraction and the Law of the Harvest or The Law of Restoration. The Law of Attraction is something we “will” into accruing but the true principle is we reap what we sow, that means the Lord can bless us or not bless us based on our actions in this life. It does not mean we can tap into a power of natural laws to focus our wills, desire and dreams on and just visualize their manifestations. Ken Bowers and I just talked about that a week ago. In his research he has understood the same lie in the Law of Attraction. He and I discussed how witches use the Law of Attraction in magic and call it the same name. They use it to invoke demons to do their bidding (which works by the way). If we see any fruits when using the Law of Attraction to direct our lives, those fruit are not from God, but from the same source from which witches get their power. This idea is a twisted truth, a counterfeit to lead us astray. It misses the most important part of the Lord’s plan - “Fathers will” - and is using powers not from God but from the adversary. These are not natural laws that we tap into that are neutral. Either we are working through the power of God doing his Will or we are working through the powers of the adversary, for he can do miracles too. But man on his own is nothing for we are told that by Moses and King Benjamin.


Moses 1: 10

10 And it came to pass that it was for the space of many hours before Moses did again receive his natural strength like unto man; and he said unto himself: Now, for this cause I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed.

Mosiah 4:5

5 For behold, if the knowledge of the goodness of God at this time has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness, and your worthless and fallen state—


The Secret was promoted on Oprah along with many other occult teaching she promotes continually. The Secret has gone through the LDS Church like wildfire. It still is destroying trees in the vineyard of the Lord.
All this self-help stuff leaves God and His will out of the picture and makes ourselves “gods” unto ourselves. It gives no credit for blessings from Father or any judgments, which are the true Law of the Harvest. We are in a generation where we are obsessed with self, and worship ourselves instead of worshiping a God - our will only.


Resse

It is wonderful that you sensed through the Spirit that something was off. It is difficult to recognize something like this as evil or satanic, but you felt something was not right and that is what counts. That will be the vital thing we must have to make it through these times. We truly must have the Spirit with us at all times to discern truth from Lies. The Spirit must be our guide. The teachings of today are diametrically opposed to the idea of a Father in Heaven that we are to submit our will to. The world insists that we are the ones to direct ourselves and actually call it evil if we believe in a Father in Heaven that we are to submit our will to. They say that the only “sin” or “evil” in the world is To Believe In A God.

As Christ said at the great council in heaven over the two plans "Father Thy Will Be Done".

The only logical key I can share for catching deceptions that works is those very words. Father, Thy will be done or Thy will not mine. We must be willing to completely submit our will to Father in all things always, becoming like a child should be to a Father. We must look to His will in all that we do. We must let go of Pride in all of its forms. We must become Humble before Father in all things.


Matthew 18: 1-4

1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.


We tend to think of spiritual things in the way we think of mortal maturity as growing into adulthood where we begin to act as adults making our own decisions, choices and finding our own truths, with no one to answer to but ourselves. But this is not what the goal is spiritually. The goal is to become more and more like a Child, submitting our will to Father in all things. The purpose of this life is not to grow up and become a God here. It is merely a test if we will fully submit to Father here, to become like a Child, humble, obedient, teachable etc. Therefore we must be willing to say “Thy will not mine” in all things and endure to the end. We must not try to grow up too fast upon our own will or we find ourselves where Lucifer found himself. There is no short cut to reach Godhood by going around Father. It must be taught directly by Father each and every step. We are not to go out and find ways to become like God that he is not teaching us in our Church. All we need is the teachings of our Church. It is not the fast track to independent Godhood. It is the track of being one with Father which takes us more than a lifetime of submitting our will in all things to Him. The goal is never to be independent but to be One with Him.

Notice in the following talk that becoming a child takes time, it is a process in life. We are not told to become a child then start trying to become Gods. We are told to just submit our will to Father in all things and all of our growth will be taken care of through that process.

http://tiny.cc/child314

Henry B. Eyring, “As a Child,” Ensign, May 2006, 14–17

“Here is King Benjamin’s stirring description of what that change to become like a child is and how it comes to us:

“For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.”

We are safe on the rock which is the Savior when we have yielded in faith in Him, have responded to the Holy Spirit’s direction to keep the commandments long enough and faithfully enough that the power of the Atonement has changed our hearts. When we have, by that experience, become as a child in our capacity to love and obey, we are on the sure foundation.

From King Benjamin we learn what we can do to take us to that safe place. But remember: the things we do are the means, not the end we seek. What we do allows the Atonement of Jesus Christ to change us into what we must be. Our faith in Jesus Christ brings us to repentance and to keeping His commandments. We obey and we resist temptation by following the promptings of the Holy Ghost. In time our natures will change. We will become as a little child, obedient to God and more loving. That change, if we do all we must to keep it, will qualify us to enjoy the gifts which come through the Holy Ghost. Then we will be safe on the only sure rock.”



Lucifer can appear as an angel of light and deceive us with things that “appear good”.

2 CORINTHIANS 11:14-15

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

2 Nephi 9:9

9 And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness.


We should not be searching the world for “secret doctrines”. The world has them. They are Lucifer’s ancient secret doctrines which he has taught since the beginning of time. All we need is in the gospel of Jesus Christ.


Dieter F. Uchtdorf, “The Way of the Disciple,” Ensign, May 2009, 75–78

…… the gospel of Jesus Christ has the answers to all of our problems. The gospel is not a secret. It is not complicated or hidden. It can unlock the door to true happiness. It is not someone’s theory or proposition. It does not come from man at all. It springs from the pure and everlasting waters of the Creator of the universe, who knows truths we cannot even begin to comprehend. And with that knowledge, He has given us the gospel—a divine gift, the ultimate formula for happiness and success.


As we can see we are not to seek our own will, but Father’s will. We do not find Father’s mysteries out in the world. The mysteries of the gospel, or rather the deeper understanding of the gospel comes through living the basic truths of the gospel and contemplating them in holy places. It is through personal revelation that the Lord reveals these mysteries to the obedient. They are not discoverable through books DVDs made by and for the world. Non LDS philosophers, no matter how good they may seem cannot be a source of divine knowledge. This truth comes through the power and gift of the Holy Ghost and only through that power. Look to the scriptures, the prophet and only then to personal revelation that is consistent with what they have taught. Do not seek for mysteries in the archives of Babylon, then try to make them fit into the Church. They will never fit, for they are the secrets of Babylon not Zion, therefore lies not truths.

[reesecaptain of 1,000]

Bella,
Thank you. You have hit on the head, a thought that has been in my mind a lot as of late. Its a simple truth we all know yet many do not of us don't practice it as we should. It is simply that we must have a personal relationship with our Savior and Father in Heaven. We must worship and submit to them, not to the bishop, or elders quorum pres., or stake pres., or even the prophet. My husband and I have had many a talk about how foolish some members are in their efforts to 'brown nose' people in leadership positions. So many people are so distracted by the popularity games played at church, that they seem to forget that it is Jesus Christ's chruch and we are to worship him. I wonder how popular he would be in most wards if he showed up incognito. I think most people would be offended by him.

I am becoming more and more aware that if we are to obtain salvation, we must be actively seeking it each day. Not abstractly thinking about it occasionally. You are right, we must submit to our Father in Heavens' will. If we won't we will not be with him. It is very cut and dry actually. The more we allow ourselves to be distracted or decived, the further away from him we will become. Making it much harder to return, or even recognise that we have even wandered away from him. I feel as though the Lord is 'feeling' after us right now. More so than ever because we are fast approaching a day when we will have to make a choice between him and satan, and so many of us members (who should know better) are unprepared to make that choice. So many of us do not see things as they really are. We do not understand that 'satans great and abominible church' is so much more that just personal sin.....and so much more dangerous as well. He is organized in his plan of attack, and the majority of us have no idea that we are at war!

[Rosabellacaptain of 1,000]

Bella,
Thank you. You have hit on the head, a thought that has been in my mind a lot as of late. Its a simple truth we all know yet many do not of us don't practice it as we should. It is simply that we must have a personal relationship with our Savior and Father in Heaven. We must worship and submit to them, not to the bishop, or elders quorum pres., or stake pres., or even the prophet. My husband and I have had many a talk about how foolish some members are in their efforts to 'brown nose' people in leadership positions. So many people are so distracted by the popularity games played at church, that they seem to forget that it is Jesus Christ's chruch and we are to worship him. I wonder how popular he would be in most wards if he showed up incognito. I think most people would be offended by him.

I am becoming more and more aware that if we are to obtain salvation, we must be actively seeking it each day. Not abstractly thinking about it occasionally. You are right, we must submit to our Father in Heavens' will. If we won't we will not be with him. It is very cut and dry actually. The more we allow ourselves to be distracted or decived, the further away from him we will become. Making it much harder to return, or even recognise that we have even wandered away from him. I feel as though the Lord is 'feeling' after us right now. More so than ever because we are fast approaching a day when we will have to make a choice between him and satan, and so many of us members (who should know better) are unprepared to make that choice. So many of us do not see things as they really are. We do not understand that 'satans great and abominible church' is so much more that just personal sin.....and so much more dangerous as well. He is organized in his plan of attack, and the majority of us have no idea that we are at war!

I agree with much that you have said though I would like to clarify a point. We are told to follow the Prophet in all things and he has told us to follow the leadership of the Church that have been given the keys over us. I agree that we should not be involved in pandering for popularity to these presiding officers, but quietly obeying what they say. If we have an issue with directions we should go up the chain of leadership to deal with such matters. It is first and foremost to follow Father and His will, but when we have been told through the mouth piece of God (Prophet)to do such and such it is to be obeyed as if God came to you directly with the order. We should not worship any Church leader as you have said. But obedience and worship are not the same thing. We have been promised if we did follow a leader and he lead us wrongly, it would be on him, not us, and our obedience would count for righteousness. Of course this may not relate to clear laws of God broken such as the ten commandments. If we truly believe in the LDS Faith we must also believe in the Prophet and all that he directs the Church in. If not we may find ourselves lost over something we just did not see the point or purpose of at the time. But the Lord will not allow the Prophet to misguide us.

Again I very much agree with the things you have said. I just differ on the "submit" part to the Leadership of the Church. But do completely agree with the "Worship" issue. Many have lost sight of whose Church we belong to. All the scriptures we have been given to us by prophets of the Lord. So they are his mouth piece on Earth. I am sure what you were trying to say when you said "worship and submit" was merely pointing out not to worship men instead of God. I hope I only clarified what you were saying.

[ready2preparecaptain of 1,000]

Is it possible that modern-day Christendom is "looking
beyond the mark" in attempting to put a modern-day
meaning on a very ancient concept?

As is stated in Alma 3:18–19, one marks, or curses,
himself by disobedience to God. Are we keeping
ourselves more fully . . . “unspotted from the world”
(James 1:27) by separating from it in all that is evil?

When we are marked (spotted) from the world by our
failure to believe and obey Christ, we receive the mark
of the world (Babylon, the Beast) and are forced to buy
and sell by its rules to provide for our wants and needs.

When we are unmarked (unspotted) from the world
through faith in Christ and obedience to His laws, we
receive the mark of Christ and we learn how to fully
trust in Him to provide for our wants and needs.

In a truly Christ-centered society where all things are
had in common, why would there even be any need to
buy and sell?

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all
men, as every man had need." (Acts 2: 44-45)

"And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were
all converted unto the Lord...and there were no contentions and
disputations among them, and every man did deal justly with
one another.
And they had all things common among them; therefore there
were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made
free, and partakers of the heavenly gift." (4 Nephi 1: 2-3)

"And there were no envyings, nor strifes, nor tumults, nor whore-
doms, nor lyings, nor murders, nor any manner of lasciviousness;
and surely there could not be a happier people among all the
people who had been created by the hand of God." (4 Ne. 1: 16)

"Every man seeking the interest of his neighbor, and doing all
things with an eye single to the glory of God." (D&C 82:19)

Those who refuse to receive the mark, or seal of Christ
receive the "mark of the Beast" by default. They are
forced to receive it because they choose to disobey God
and thus lose their agency.

You may also want to read this article on the LDS.org website:
Revelation: The Plainest Book Ever Written
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h ... 82620aRCRD

Best Regards,
Sharon (Making the Best of Basics) in Mississippi

"From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body
the marks of the Lord Jesus." --The Apostle Paul (Galations 6:17)

[reesecaptain of 1,000]

I agree with much that you have said though I would like to clarify a point. We are told to follow the Prophet in all things and he has told us to follow the leadership of the Church that have been given the keys over us. I agree that we should not be involved in pandering for popularity to these presiding officers, but quietly obeying what they say. If we have an issue with directions we should go up the chain of leadership to deal with such matters. It is first and foremost to follow Father and His will, but when we have been told through the mouth piece of God (Prophet)to do such and such it is to be obeyed as if God came to you directly with the order. We should not worship any Church leader as you have said. But obedience and worship are not the same thing. We have been promised if we did follow a leader and he lead us wrongly, it would be on him, not us, and our obedience would count for righteousness. Of course this may not relate to clear laws of God broken such as the ten commandments. If we truly believe in the LDS Faith we must also believe in the Prophet and all that he directs the Church in. If not we may find ourselves lost over something we just did not see the point or purpose of at the time. But the Lord will not allow the Prophet to misguide us.

Again I very much agree with the things you have said. I just differ on the "submit" part to the Leadership of the Church. But do completely agree with the "Worship" issue. Many have lost sight of whose Church we belong to. All the scriptures we have been given to us by prophets of the Lord. So they are his mouth piece on Earth. I am sure what you were trying to say when you said "worship and submit" was merely pointing out not to worship men instead of God. I hope I only clarified what you were saying.

Bella,
We definitley see eye to eye. I should not have included the submit part in my rant on not worshiping church leadership. We must be willing to submit, or follow, the prophet. After all he does speak for the Lord. I just get so tired of listening to comments, or testimonies in church all about the bishop this, the elders quorum pres. that, or even "I met the prophet....", and no one seems to talk about Jesus Christ. And unless we have a very personal relationship with him we cannot be saved. Even if we go to church every week, and do our callings faithfully.

As ready2prepare said just above, I too think we often look past the mark. I think this church membership resembles the jews during Jesus' time. So many members are so punitive, and are so concerned with the outward show, that Christ gets put in the back. Rarely talked about or discussed on the level he deserves. This is more on the local level of wards and stakes, not on the leadership level of the prophet and apostles.
I just get sooooo tired of all the games played at church! If you can't tell . It makes me sad for the Lord.

[kathyncaptain of 1,000]

So many members are so punitive, and are so concerned with the outward show, that Christ gets put in the back. Rarely talked about or discussed on the level he deserves

This is not the case in our ward. I feel very privileged to live in a spiritual ward where Jesus Christ and the Atonement are very much a part of our meetings. Our Stake President is also very in tune. For that I am so grateful. If it is not that way in your ward, I feel bad for you.

[ndjilicaptain of 100]

I grew up in a ward that wasnt the greatest. I left the church over it. Really it only hurt me but I've come back and I am so grateful that my husband decided to follow. I know this is not the case for MOST people who convert after they marry. I'm also lucky to be in Kathyn's ward and it really is a great ward. I think that is why the church is trying so hard to work on the spiritual side right now. Temporal affairs are not forgotten and always are mentioned but the spiritual is really been the focus. Loving our fellow man, loving God, attending the Temple, being true Christians and above all looking to and studyuing the scriptures for the "ancient" knowledge that was given to us from God. Not a twisted version from Satan. All these tools are being given to us for a reason. We WILL need them. It's sad when so many get irritated at the "lack" of temporal preparedness being spoken of by the Prophet and GA's, or they're not exposing of LDG's in the governments of the world. In God's infinite wisdom he IS giving us the tools we need. Really everything is there in the scriptures. It amazes me every time I read them just what is contained within. We are being warned and we are being given the tools. It's just up to us to listen and apply.
And as usual I dont think I can thank Bella enough for all the work and time she has put into what she has done. Also all the opposition she suffers for it. Thank you.

Reese-it's crazy how many people (including myself) who has come to the same conclussions that you have. I was joking to my mom that I think the Holy Ghost is working triple overtime right now trying to warn all who would listen. It makes me feel very loved that the Godhead care enough about us to do all this for us.

Sharon-it's funny you posted that verse from Alma. I was just reading that last night.

[Kurtcaptain of 100]

I should not have included the submit part in my rant on not worshiping church leadership. We must be willing to submit, or follow, the prophet. After all he does speak for the Lord. I just get so tired of listening to comments, or testimonies in church all about the bishop this, the elders quorum pres. that, or even "I met the prophet....", and no one seems to talk about Jesus Christ. And unless we have a very personal relationship with him we cannot be saved. Even if we go to church every week, and do our callings faithfully.

As ready2prepare said just above, I too think we often look past the mark. I think this church membership resembles the jews during Jesus' time. So many members are so punitive, and are so concerned with the outward show, that Christ gets put in the back. Rarely talked about or discussed on the level he deserves. This is more on the local level of wards and stakes, not on the leadership level of the prophet and apostles.
I just get sooooo tired of all the games played at church! If you can't tell . It makes me sad for the Lord.

Thanks for the comments Reese. I see more than a few Rameumptons in my ward metaphorically speaking as the downtrodden are cast off and persecuted with prideful judgements... People can fall into the trap of believing that if they are prospered they are better than those who are not. About the popularity contests, I have seen many occur within the local levels. It is like a corporation where those who want to rise up above others use brownosing, manipulation, and trodding on others to get gain. The problem is that when those who do these things actually do rise up into positions of power, they are built on a false foundation and do a terrible job of leading the saints with any compassion or love, mostly rules and beuracracies. Letter over spirit, like the saducees and pharisees.

We must cleanse the inner vessel to be worthy of leading others.

[ldsfireguycaptain of 100]

Sharon,

You said:

When we are marked (spotted) from the world by our
failure to believe and obey Christ, we receive the mark
of the world (Babylon, the Beast) and are forced to buy
and sell by its rules to provide for our wants and needs.

When we are unmarked (unspotted) from the world
through faith in Christ and obedience to His laws, we
receive the mark of Christ and we learn how to fully
trust in Him to provide for our wants and needs.

...

Those who refuse to receive the mark, or seal of Christ
receive the "mark of the Beast" by default. They are
forced to receive it because they choose to disobey God
and thus lose their agency.

You have some interesting and valuable ideas in here. However, I do think that the mark of the beast in the last days will be some form of real mark that is willfully accepted. There are several reasons that I have for this:

1. Rev 14:9 says "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, ...", & Rev. 20:4 says "neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands". These references to receipt of a mark in the forehead or hand sound literal to me.

2. Rev 13:17 says "no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." It would be very difficult to implement a restrictive system that disallows buying and selling without a very real mark or indication of some kind; but WITH such a mark it would be simple to implement.

3. There is a history for such marking in the past - the Lamanites were marked for their willingness to follow Lucifer, likewise the followers of Cain, and the Gadiantons; the Jews were marked by the Nazis in perverted mimicry of the other markings, etc... Followers of Lucifer today often mark themselves with specific tattoos as a means of identification and even communication.

4. In order to incur the penalties and judgments specified in scripture, I think that the mark must be very definite and physical, representing a conscious and willful subscription to the principles and worship of the Luciferian system. Anything less could be repented of, or turned around; but those who subscribe and receive the mark cannot repent during the remainder of earth's mortal history - at least that is the way I read it. I think, in effect, they share culpability for the mass martyrdom that occurs under the authority of the regime, essentially helping in or agreeing at least implicitly to the mass shedding of innocent blood.

5. There are testimonies available (including Aaron Russo, before his death) from defectors of the NWO, and from those who have documented it, that very clearly describe that the stated aim of the NWO is to "chip everyone on earth." Aaron's stuff is particularly interesting ... he was a friend of Nick Rockefeller, and someone who was kind of on the edge of being one of the NWO elite, and he was told many times by Nick that this was the end goal. When he asked why, he was told it was to control the masses.

6. Some of the new age "spiritual gurus" also refer to this marking, and also speak very bluntly about the purging or cleansing that will occur for anyone who refuses to participate. The scariest thing here is that many of these gurus are active in NGO's or even in government sponsored boards, or the guru's own organizations receive official government support and/or recognition. Somehow, it never gets reported that these same gurus who are so close to government are openly talking about or advocating a "cleansing" like this ...

7. In order to achieve the cleansing, and even just to segregate or persecute the peoples who refuse to participate in the new system, some quick and easy means of sorting and recognizing the protesters must be implemented. Think of 1930's Germany here, and Jews wearing the Star of David and eventually the camp tattoo; except in this case reversed - those without the mark are persecuted.

Also, for these and other reasons, it has been my own opinion and feeling for almost 30 years that this would be the case.

My thoughts ... thanks for reading.

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

I still tend to believe the mark will be a chip, or something similar implanted.

Have you guys watched the recent stock movement of Verichip, the guys who make the RFID chip? Here is their stock chart for the past month:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/ch ... playForm=1

Hmm they have been granted an exclusive right to produce a system for H1N1 virus detection...

Then there is the lady on Youtube who claims they are being trained in the military to set up raod blocks and people that have the scannable bracelt that they have been vaccinatted will be allowed thru, but those without the bracelet will be given the option ot either get the vaccination there at the roadblock or will either not be allowed to pass or will be taken to a detention facility.

If there is a huge outbreak of a contagious disease, will it not be perfectly reasonable and expected that you will not be allowed in public places (such as grocery stores) without providing proof that you have been immunized? Unable to buy or sell without the mark of the beast ring any bells? And don;t these prophesies always unfold not in glaring obvious ways, but always in ways that the spiritually asleep do not notice, only the watchful will see it for what it is.

[ldsfireguycaptain of 100]

I agree that there is a subtle and sometimes not-so-subtle slide into this thing as you say, and that it takes a certain spiritual awareness to be awake to it.

But I also believe that the final implementation of the actual mark will be a very open thing. It may even have some kind of ceremonial component ... but anyhow, public and not at all secret. It actually represents a swearing of allegiance.

The whole idea of forced vaccinations though scares me to death. We in my family are against vaccincations generally, and believe that they are used to subjugate the population.

Did you know that the new vaccine for H1N1 actually contains Thimerasol (it says so right on the outside label), which is basically mercury, one of the most toxic neurotoxins known?

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

I am not so sure about the ceremonial aspect, I think sometimes we visualize how things will unfold so many times in our heads, that certain aspects that we have imagined become ingrained. It may very well be an open thing that people will clearly know what they are doing/refusing to do.

Ultimately, as I spoke to my family about possible forced vaccinations etc, I told them that if they are voluntary, I am against them but I will allow each person to decide if they want the shots (my sons are 12 and 16). However, my feeling is if the shots and bracelets or whatever are mandatory then I will not take them and will strongly counsel against taking them because if you accept a MANDATORY vaccination then you have basically acknowledged that you are no better than cattle and are the property of whoever declared them mandatory.

People look at Revelation and see the mark as the ultimate and final decision of people either following Satan or Christ. Again, i don't think it will be as blatant as stepping into a voting booth and marking either "Jesus" or "Satan". I believe that taking a mandatory vaccination is bending the knee to the State, it is conceding to the use of FORCE as opposed to gentle persuasion and convincing. In my book this is exactly the choice of receiving the mark. People that don't receive the mark are going to be persecuted and hated, and be unable to buy or sell. If you don;t receive the mark and also try to convince others not to receive the mandatory mark on the grounds that it is demeaning to their innate human rights, how is that going to make those that receive the mark feel? They will feel resentment and hatred because at the deepest levels they will know they sold their birthright and that they are cowards.

I will keep my eyes open and watch what develops. I heard on the radio (99.5) they said that on Oct 15 that school nurses will be administering shots "classroom by classroom". It does not sound voluntary to me and at the very least I expect school kids are going to be highly pressured to "just do it." I hope I am dead wrong, in which case I will continue to be watchful and as ready as possible.