Why do “Conservatives” support the patriot act?

[armedtotheteethcaptain of 100]

Should we fear or support the PATACT and homeland surveillance, or is it something that we should embrace for our protection?

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

What do you perceive as the real purpose of the Patriot Act?

How can the Patriot Act further the interests of those who created it?

How can the Patriot Act interfere with our pursuit of life, liberty and control of property?

I suppose many so-called conservative people believe the Patriot Act is necessary to protect our pursuit of life, liberty and control of property. What are they missing?

These are the questions one has to be able to answer when opposing the Patriot Act in discussion with people who approve of it. Answering these question for people who have not done their homework is futile.

[MercynGracecaptain of 100]

Learned this recently from a defense attn'y friend. Previously federal judges could go below the sentencing range dictated by the guidelines as the judge saw fit from examining the evidence of the case. According to my friend, the Patriot Act took that liberty away and now the judge can only go below if the prosecutor agrees. So... the court can only extend mercy if the people who want you behind bars in the first placeyour accusers decide that such is okay. Basically, federal judges are now just rubber stamps. They are handed a sentencing range and they have no room for downward departure. Oh and if they do try to depart - the US district attn'y auto appeals. This procedure is being used on citizens - not terrorists.

My advice to everyone is steer as clear of the courts as you can - you literally will pay the uttermost farthing.

Can any lawyers in the forum confirm this?

[skmocaptain of 1,000]

On some issues I'm so conservative that I make Charlemagne look like a Marxist, and I've been opposed to the Patriot Act since it's very beginning. I also very clearly remembering the first time I heard the phrase "Department of Homeland Security" and figured they'd issue Brown Shirts as an official uniform.

(That's a Nazi-type reference, in case you missed it.)

[ChelCThe Law]

I don't support the Patriot Act. I also think it's stated purpose is not true, the fact that our borders are such a mess demonstrates to me that it isn't about keeping us safe.

I think many Republicans supported it because generally Republicans would err on the side of kicking terrorist butt and saving innocent lives. That's what most thought it was about - allowing the PTB more leeway to save Americans. I think they were naive.

[Cowellcaptain of 100]

Because people are brainwashed
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It came about during the Bush era
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And it helps protect us against "terrorism"

A perfect recipe for American no-it-alls who will have to answer to God one day as to why they don't have the guts to discern between right and wrong.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

IMO, the same people who have been giving us terrorism have given us the Patriot Act.

I'd like to know what some of you think about how the Patriot Act can interfere with our pursuit of life, liberty and control of property.

[ChelCThe Law]

Well for starters, it gives them the ability to label anyone and take away life, liberty and property without the ability for retribution and with very little justification. If we ended up having civil war again and a tyrant emerged as our leader, they'd hardly have to change a thing to control our every move.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

And the LDGs have already begun to label certain groups of people as potential terrorists. Supporters of government compliance with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, supporters of the right to private possession of guns, opponents of abortion, opponents of legalizing gay marriage, opponents of formation of a North American Union, opponents of U.S. subservience to the U.N., opponents of amnesty for illegal immigrants, opponents of a global government are being labeled "extremists" of "potentially dangerous militia members".

Elimination of oppostion. Elimination from society of those Americans who fit any of the above would certainly make things easier for the LDGs who have given us the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act gives the LDGs oppportunity to begin persecuting and imprisoning large groups of their opponents. And I think there are people in our FedGov who would like to begin that now.

Give it a rest, Lundbæk! You're just paranoid!

[buffalo_girlcaptain of 1,000]

Give it a rest, Lundbæk! You're just paranoid!

Shortly after the 'Patriot Act' was passed, I read an online journalist's opinion about it, "If you aren't paranoid, you aren't paying attention!"

I believe she had it right.

I've also heard the Department of Homeland Security - which had a website in February of 2001, by the way - called the Department of Human Sacrifice. Could be working up to that.