No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by EmmaLee »

http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/m ... h-sinners/

"I was recently informed by a fellow Christian that it’s perfectly OK for a follower of Christ to march in a gay pride parade because, as he explained it, “Jesus hung out with sinners.” It was far from the first time that I’ve heard a clearly objectionable act justified on these grounds. This is just one of the many dubious slogans that has overwhelmed and suffocated the faith in our country. For many of us, our faith is really nothing more than a collection of these empty mantras, which we confidently shout over and over again, hoping repetition will make them true.

Of course, “Jesus hung out with sinners” is a loaded statement. There’s always some erroneous insinuation or conclusion attached to it. “Jesus hung out with sinners, therefore [xyz].” Jesus hung out with sinners, therefore it’s OK for me to do whatever it is I’m doing right now. Jesus hung out with sinners, therefore I need not follow whatever commandment or moral teaching we’re currently discussing. Jesus hung out with sinners, therefore this sin that we’re discussing isn’t as bad as you suggest.

I’ve heard “Jesus hung out with sinners” as a sincere justification for going to strip clubs and gay bars. I’ve seen “Jesus hung out with sinners” trotted out during debates about pornography. Somehow “Jesus hung out with sinners” tends even to enter discussions of abortion. “Jesus hung out with sinners, therefore killing babies is alright.” Generally, whatever the application, the argument is always that Jesus “hung out with” such and such a sinner, which means He didn’t mind such and such a sin.

Last week I wrote a piece about misconceptions around the idea of Christian compassion, and many of the critical responses hinged on this theme. One example:

“Matt, this was nothing but a badly disguised anti-gay diatribe. Jesus would have hung out with the people you are judging. Jesus wasn’t judgmental and in your face like you. He didn’t shove religion down people’s throats. Jesus hung out with sinners….” Etc. and so forth.

Leaving aside the bizarre contention that any discussion of Christian morality is automatically “anti-gay” (I didn’t mention gays in the post at all), what we have here is just your standard “Jesus hung out with sinners” formulation. Jesus “hung out” with people who sinned, ipso facto Jesus had no problem with the sins they committed. And if it were true that Christ merely “hung out” with people, this line of logic would hold a little water.

After all, “hanging out” is an inherently accepting, or at least indifferent, act. It’s casual and trivial. It has no purpose beyond itself. The phrase “hanging out” is almost never used to describe a deep, meaningful, or intimate interaction between two people. We use it precisely to signify the opposite. “Oh, we just hung out.” In other words, there wasn’t much going on. There was no agenda. We were just sort of occupying the same space together.

There’s a reason why many people in my generation, as deathly afraid of commitment as we tend to be, will often reject the term “dating” and instead say of our romantic partners, “We’re just hanging out.” Meaning, this isn’t necessarily going anywhere, nor do I intend it to. So, if that’s the only reason Christ came to Earth — to “just hang out” with us — then, sure, I guess your favorite sin isn’t so bad. If the Son of God didn’t mind “hanging out” around it, how terrible could it be?

But that’s not what happened. That’s not what Jesus did. Jesus didn’t hang out with sinners, and since we’re all sinners, it must be said that Jesus didn’t hang out with anyone. This is not semantics. The phrase has certain connotations, and those connotations are dangerous and misleading. Let’s look at the two most dangerous implications of this popular saying:

1) “Hanging out” implies approval or indifference.

If I first learned about Jesus from the people who typically put forth this vision of the “hanging out” Christ, I’d come away with the impression that He was a super chill dude who meandered around Galilee constantly flanked by rowdy drunks and scantily clad hookers. I’d think that Our Lord was some sort of deadbeat who ran with an edgier crowd because He was bored and it was something to do. I’d imagine Him sitting on the curb with His posse making banal small talk and watching the day go by.

Ultimately, I’d conclude that Christ was not someone who shepherded the lost and the aimless, but who actually was lost and aimless. This is the conclusion I’m meant to draw. It’s why these people rather conspicuously choose the phrase “hung out with” instead of more accurate options like “taught” or “guided” or “ministered to.”

It’s true that Scripture tells us of Christ eating with sinners (Luke 15:1) and publicly coming to their defense, as was the case with the adulteress who faced public stoning. And, yes, in simply speaking up for them, or to them, He was defying social customs of the time and causing heart palpitations in the poor Pharisees who’d never before witnessed such a thing. The New Testament tells several stories along these lines. But it certainly doesn’t tell any stories where Christ accompanies a sinner in his sin, or sits by while a sin is being committed, or forgoes an opportunity to call a sinner to a life of holiness.

Christ dined with sinners in order to draw them closer to the truth. To the adulteress He said, “Sin no more.” To anyone who came to Him, He said, “Pick up your cross and follow me.” Christ instructed. He exhorted. He commanded. He showed the way. He did not “hang out.” There was a purpose to all of these encounters, and the purpose was always to bring the sinner out of his sin. The purpose, in other words, was to heal them.

If we say that Christ “hung out” with sinners, then we must say that a doctor “hangs out” with his patients. But we wouldn’t say that about a doctor, would we? You may enjoy making friendly conversation with your physician, but that’s not why you schedule an appointment with him. You go to him to be treated. And it’s for the same reason that we sinners go to Christ. “They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” (Luke 5:31)

Something else to keep in mind: Christ dined with and interacted with those sinners who came to him. They were repentant. They sought Him because they desired holiness. Jesus was not ever seen fraternizing with unrepentant evildoers who had no interest in salvation. Really, Our Lord wasn’t even polite to those types of people. He excoriated them as “hypocrites” and “vipers.” Christ wouldn’t so much as speak a word to Herod. When He came across the money changers in the temple, He drove them out violently. He rebuked and corrected at many other points, often using the sort of language that would earn Him a stern lecture from the weak-kneed Christians of today.

Remember, also, that St. Paul tells us not to eat with someone who is “guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater or drunkard.” Is the Apostle contradicting Jesus? Or is he contradicting our silly ideas about Jesus? I’d say the latter. St. Paul is warning us against consorting with those who are impenitent and boastful in their sin. Christ would not have shared a table with those sorts, and neither should we. And that means Christ would not have dined at a strip club, and, no, he would not have accompanied homosexuals as they were marching in a gay pride parade. He would not have walked compliantly along as people were literally announcing their “pride” in their sin. He would not have “hung out” while sin was committed and promoted in His presence. And neither should we.

2) It makes our relationship with Jesus seem trivial and casual.

This is one of the great problems in the church today. We have created such a casual image of Christ that it borders on profane. We portray our Lord and Savior as just one of the guys. There is no awe, or fear, or submission in how we approach Him. We speak of Him like we’re His equals.

I think a lot of this stems from the “Jesus is my friend” idea that’s grabbed a hold of western Christendom in recent decades. And there’s truth to it, in one sense. Jesus calls us His friends on several occasions in Scripture, most notably in that beautiful line from John: “Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” But Jesus is entitled to call us whatever He wants to call us. It is through His radical humility and perfect compassion that He deigns to dignify us with such a label. We should not take it as a license to treat Christ as we would treat one of our friends here on Earth. Yes, He chose to be a friend to us, but He is still, first and foremost, our God and our Master.

Look at it like this: I would say that I’m a “friend” to my children, but I’m not “one of their friends.” I’m a friend to them in that I care for them and want what is best for them. In that way, I’m more their friend than any friend they have or will have, until they get married. But I’m still their father, and my “friendship” with them will always be in that context. If my son ever introduced me to his friends as “My buddy, Matt,” I would pull him immediately to the side and reprimand him. And if he said, “Well, I thought you were my friend,” I would respond, “Yes, but I’m your father first, and never forget it, son.”

We, as Christians, have forgotten it. That’s why there is so little reverence in our modern Christianity. Even in our churches you see few hints that those assembled understand that they are assembled to worship the Lord of all Creation. From the plucky, ridiculous music, to the way they’re dressed, to the way the pastor carries himself, you can find scant evidence that anyone involved has even the faintest appreciation for what’s taking place. It’s all so casual. We’re just there to hang out, I guess.

I wonder, how do we think we’d react if Jesus appeared before us in the flesh? Do we imagine we’d saunter over to Him, confident and casual, and give Him a high five like some drinking buddy we haven’t seen in a few years? “Hey, Jesus, my man! Great to see you!”

Or would we fall to our knees in wonder and terror, feeling unworthy to look upon the face of the living God? And, if we were able to speak at all, would we only be able to stutter the words of St. Thomas, “My Lord and my God”? Would we greet him like a “friend,” or would we tremble in His glorious presence? Would we stand before Him as equals, or would we collapse on the ground in total submission? Would we want to “hang out” with this Almighty Being, or would we desire only to lie at His feet and worship Him for all eternity?

Well, I suppose we’ll find out soon enough. We’ll all be brought before the throne of God one day. And there will be nothing casual about our interaction with Him then. God won’t be sanitized or made “safe” with dumb slogans and bad music and bland sermons. All of that will be stripped away, and there will be only Him there before us, bigger than the universe itself, with eyes like planets and a face like the Sun. If the thought of this moment doesn’t fill you with an indescribable mix of fear and joy, then I question whether you even believe in God at all. That’s the problem with an irreverent and casual faith: it’s not a faith. At least, it’s not a faith in the God that actually exists.

There is nothing casual about any of this. The Christian mission has nothing to do with “hanging out.” The only kind of hanging that Christ did was on the Cross, for the redemption of mankind. That’s what He did for filthy sinners like you and me. He didn’t just “accompany” us or chill out in the background while we marched headfirst into Hell. He died in agony to release us from our sin. How quickly and how often we seem to forget that fact." ~ Matt Walsh

User avatar
David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by David13 »

Amen.
I was thinking about this for the past week.
Many people have this image of Jesus Christ, that he was some sort of "cool cat" or "hippie" or "dude'" that was all about "peace and love, man!"
And that he walked around handing out "spare change" to any doper or drunk looking for their next fix or bottle.
None of that is reflected anywhere in the scriptures.
To the contrary, as pointed out in this article, what he did with sinners was preach to them.
"Go forth and sin no more" he said to the prostitute. Not "hey man, that's cool."

I wonder if it is stimulated by the graven images seen in so many places. The depiction of Jesus Christ as a long haired, bearded man. If it's conducive then I definitely think those images should be abandoned.

But I actually believe that we are commanded to make no image of God the Father, nor his son Jesus Christ.
dc

EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by EmmaLee »

I know more Mormons that have this attitude than anyone else. Without exception, they use it to justify something.

User avatar
kittycat51
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1791
Location: Looking for Zion

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by kittycat51 »

I love Matt Walsh

User avatar
Sarah
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6702

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by Sarah »

A good reminder on the importance of reverence.

User avatar
Rensai
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1340

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by Rensai »

David13 wrote: May 13th, 2017, 4:11 pm Amen.
I was thinking about this for the past week.
Many people have this image of Jesus Christ, that he was some sort of "cool cat" or "hippie" or "dude'" that was all about "peace and love, man!"
And that he walked around handing out "spare change" to any doper or drunk looking for their next fix or bottle.
None of that is reflected anywhere in the scriptures.
To the contrary, as pointed out in this article, what he did with sinners was preach to them.
"Go forth and sin no more" he said to the prostitute. Not "hey man, that's cool."
Exactly. Christ was not a Hippie and he is not tolerant of sin. He is kind and loving, but not tolerant, yet many people think tolerance is a great virtue, maybe the greatest. Which is really just another lie used to convince Christians we can/should do nothing to combat sin lest we offend someone or seem intolerant.
D&C 1:31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;
another related blog post from Matt Walsh.
http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/04/07/ ... hould-you/

User avatar
Yahtzee
captain of 100
Posts: 710

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by Yahtzee »

Buddy Jesus. Cousin to Butler Jesus.
Ugh!
I'm glad he wrote this. It needed to be said.

User avatar
David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by David13 »

Rensai wrote: May 14th, 2017, 1:11 am
David13 wrote: May 13th, 2017, 4:11 pm Amen.
I was thinking about this for the past week.
Many people have this image of Jesus Christ, that he was some sort of "cool cat" or "hippie" or "dude'" that was all about "peace and love, man!"
And that he walked around handing out "spare change" to any doper or drunk looking for their next fix or bottle.
None of that is reflected anywhere in the scriptures.
To the contrary, as pointed out in this article, what he did with sinners was preach to them.
"Go forth and sin no more" he said to the prostitute. Not "hey man, that's cool."
Exactly. Christ was not a Hippie and he is not tolerant of sin. He is kind and loving, but not tolerant, yet many people think tolerance is a great virtue, maybe the greatest. Which is really just another lie used to convince Christians we can/should do nothing to combat sin lest we offend someone or seem intolerant.
D&C 1:31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;
another related blog post from Matt Walsh.
http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/04/07/ ... hould-you/

Amen again.
"Nice Jesus". Nicey, nice. And tolerance as the most important thing. i agree. That's where things start to go wrong.
dc

User avatar
Silver Pie
seeker after Christ
Posts: 8989
Location: In the state that doesn't exist

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by Silver Pie »

It sounds like the thing that is overlooked is that Jesus did hang out with sinners, but he didn't sin. He did not participate in their sins. He loved and accepted them in spite of their sins. He showed them a better way. And, it seems like, many of them were touched by his willingness to accept them and repented - while the "righteous" condemned him for hanging out with sinners and performing miracles on the wrong day (Sabbath). There is a world of difference between hanging out with those who need the Lord, and doing their sins with them.

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by inho »

Silver Pie wrote: May 14th, 2017, 6:34 pm It sounds like the thing that is overlooked is that Jesus did hang out with sinners, but he didn't sin. He did not participate in their sins. He loved and accepted them in spite of their sins. He showed them a better way. And, it seems like, many of them were touched by his willingness to accept them and repented - while the "righteous" condemned him for hanging out with sinners and performing miracles on the wrong day (Sabbath). There is a world of difference between hanging out with those who need the Lord, and doing their sins with them.
The only times I have heard someone to say that Jesus hang out with sinners is when they meant exactly what Silver Pie wrote.

The OP says:
EmmaLee wrote:http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/m ... h-sinners/
...
1) “Hanging out” implies approval or indifference.
I guess I use those words differently, since I disagree with this.
If we say that Christ “hung out” with sinners, then we must say that a doctor “hangs out” with his patients. You may enjoy making friendly conversation with your physician, but that’s not why you schedule an appointment with him. You go to him to be treated. And it’s for the same reason that we sinners go to Christ.
The relationship between Jesus and the sinners wasn't a professional one. He truly loved them and was their friend. He didn't participate in the sinning, nor did he accept it. But he didn't treat them like patients either. Loving people and being friendly to them is part of helping them to repent.

User avatar
David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by David13 »

inho wrote: May 15th, 2017, 1:40 am "Loving people and being friendly to them is part of helping them to repent."
Or not. Or just enabling and encouraging their sin.

There is absolutely no evidence that Jesus Christ "hung out", loitered, or otherwise spent time "doing nothing" in an immoral situation.

We ourselves are admonished to stand in holy places, are we not? Just what does that mean?

Jesus Christ did not "spend time" with the prostitute. He did not go to her room and "chill". Or sit around and chit chat, small talk and all.

He strictly admonished her. He told her to go forth and sin no more. He gave her a direct and personal commandment.

Tell me, are commandments part of the usual "hanging out" or loitering?

Or "chilling". I don't think so.

I don't think there is any evidence anywhere in the bible that Jesus Christ was a "non-judgmental" hipster, or "cool cat".

What I see is directly to the contrary.

He was 100% morality. And admonition.
dc

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by inho »

Mark 2

14 And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphæus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.

15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?

17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Jesus ate with sinners. Pharisees couldn't understand that he had anything to do with them. It is true that these sinners were among the followers of Jesus, but regardless they were sinners. Unlike the Pharisees, Jesus understood that it is better to show them love while they still are sinners and not just wait that they will repent and then accept them as friends.

User avatar
David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by David13 »

inho wrote: May 15th, 2017, 7:58 am
Mark 2



17 ... "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
What does that mean? Does it mean "chill" or "hang out", or "soothe them in their sin"?
dc

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by inho »

Mark 2
17 ... "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
David13 wrote: May 15th, 2017, 8:07 am What does that mean? ... or "soothe them in their sin"?
dc
I have never suggested anything like that.

15 ... Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus
What does that mean? Does it mean "chill" or "hang out"?
I would say so.

User avatar
David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by David13 »

inho wrote: May 15th, 2017, 8:24 am
Mark 2
17 ... "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
David13 wrote: May 15th, 2017, 8:07 am What does that mean? ... or "soothe them in their sin"?
dc
I have never suggested anything like that.

15 ... Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus
What does that mean? Does it mean "chill" or "hang out"?
I would say so.

I disagree. I do not believe Jesus Christ was an idler or a slacker. He had a mission to preach the Gospel and I believe he did so.
dc

User avatar
Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by Alaris »

Jesus hung out with sinners like a doctor hangs out with sick people.

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by inho »

David13 wrote: May 15th, 2017, 9:08 am I disagree. I do not believe Jesus Christ was an idler or a slacker. He had a mission to preach the Gospel and I believe he did so.
dc
I actually agree with you. When he ate his dinner with sinners, he wasn't being idle. Maybe the phrase 'building relationships of trust' that missionaries used to use, describes what Jesus was doing.

Serragon
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3444

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by Serragon »

inho wrote: May 15th, 2017, 11:05 am
David13 wrote: May 15th, 2017, 9:08 am I disagree. I do not believe Jesus Christ was an idler or a slacker. He had a mission to preach the Gospel and I believe he did so.
dc
I actually agree with you. When he ate his dinner with sinners, he wasn't being idle. Maybe the phrase 'building relationships of trust' that missionaries used to use, describes what Jesus was doing.
The original article said that "hanging out" gave the implication that Christ actually tolerated the sin and was cool with it. It is in this context that many people use that phrase; to justify some indulgence of the natural man.

It appears that your definition of "hang out" is different. You seem to mean that Christ went to the sinner and ministered to them which seems to be an accurate representation.

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by inho »

Serragon wrote: May 15th, 2017, 11:11 am It appears that your definition of "hang out" is different. You seem to mean that Christ went to the sinner and ministered to them which seems to be an accurate representation.
Yes. That is exactly what I tried to say in my first post in this thread.
inho wrote: May 15th, 2017, 1:40 am
I said that I have never seen the phrase "Jesus hung out with sinners" used as is described in the OP.

User avatar
BTH&T
captain of 100
Posts: 906

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by BTH&T »

This shows how "words" get twisted.

The purposeful twisting of language to soften or gain acceptance from those that want to justify sin is really what this is all about.
We do live in an age where good is called evil, and evil called good.
To me it is because of things like political correctness we are sliding down the STEEP slippery slope!

Jesus was the perfect example of one who always shows love for the person while at the same time never accepting or tolerating sin.
We live in an age that showing love means we accept the sin. Most people today do not think there are many sins.
"It's all good" ... "no big deal", such casual attitudes towards sin.

Reminds me of the scripture.. 2 Nephi 28: 8-9
"And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.
Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark."

How do WE properly take the example the Savior gave us and love all, while at the same time not tolerate sin?

Trial of our day!

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by Finrock »

Personally, I've never heard anyone subscribe to the ideas that the OP is speaking to. Meaning, I've never heard anyone use the phrase, "Jesus hung out with the sinners" as a way to justify sinful behavior like abortion, etc. I think most people would agree that using the phrase in such a way is distorted.

If Jesus didn't hang out with sinners, then He wouldn't hang out with any mortal. The fact is that God (Jesus) condescended to hang out with, to speak to, to interact with, and to atone for all sinners. Shoot, God even condescended to speak with Cain, a murderer. To this day God condescends to hang out with, to speak to, and interact with sinners.

-Finrock

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by Finrock »

David13 wrote: May 15th, 2017, 7:46 am
inho wrote: May 15th, 2017, 1:40 am "Loving people and being friendly to them is part of helping them to repent."
Or not. Or just enabling and encouraging their sin.

There is absolutely no evidence that Jesus Christ "hung out", loitered, or otherwise spent time "doing nothing" in an immoral situation.

We ourselves are admonished to stand in holy places, are we not? Just what does that mean?

Jesus Christ did not "spend time" with the prostitute. He did not go to her room and "chill". Or sit around and chit chat, small talk and all.

He strictly admonished her. He told her to go forth and sin no more. He gave her a direct and personal commandment.

Tell me, are commandments part of the usual "hanging out" or loitering?

Or "chilling". I don't think so.

I don't think there is any evidence anywhere in the bible that Jesus Christ was a "non-judgmental" hipster, or "cool cat".

What I see is directly to the contrary.

He was 100% morality. And admonition.
dc
I've been a pretty horrible sinner in the course of my life. I make mistakes and screw up even to this day because of my weaknesses. When I was a gross sinner God came down and "hung out with me" when I decided to call for His help. He said that He's been with me all along, even when I thought that He wasn't or when I thought that I wasn't worthy or good enough. He said that He's never left my side and that it was I who turned my back on Him and it was my own unbelief that caused me to feel Him as being distant or somehow not approachable. God has hung out with me several times since on a daily basis. In fact, unless I push Him away, He hangs out with me every day. He goes where I go and is there coaching me and helping me along the way.

God is very jovial. He doesn't stress out. If that means He's "chill" then I would think that He's pretty chill. He isn't that big on judging, actually. Most people don't need to be judged by someone else, they usually have already judged themselves and know pretty well where they stand. Jesus has spent a lot of time with all sorts of people, prostitutes, etc. He doesn't think like us humans. Even though He is superior to us, He doesn't treat us that way or really even think that way. He is humble and very kind. He doesn't want to hurt us in any way. He loves truth, though. He is truth. But, His direction is always filled with immense compassion and understanding. He knows exactly what it feels like to be mortal. He has no expectations of us never doing anything wrong. He gets it. He understands the human condition perfectly. He isn't interested in punishing us or anything of the sort. He wants us to be happy and so that is His primary objective. To be saved is to be with Him and to be with Him means that we will have to rely on His mercy and His grace. That's the only way. We will never be righteous enough to hang out with Him on that basis.

-Finrock

User avatar
BTH&T
captain of 100
Posts: 906

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by BTH&T »

Finrock wrote: May 15th, 2017, 2:05 pm Personally, I've never heard anyone subscribe to the ideas that the OP is speaking to. Meaning, I've never heard anyone use the phrase, "Jesus hung out with the sinners" as a way to justify sinful behavior like abortion, etc. I think most people would agree that using the phrase in such a way is distorted.

If Jesus didn't hang out with sinners, then He wouldn't hang out with any mortal. The fact is that God (Jesus) condescended to hang out with, to speak to, to interact with, and to atone for all sinners. Shoot, God even condescended to speak with Cain, a murderer. To this day God condescends to hang out with, to speak to, and interact with sinners.

-Finrock
I may not have heard it put in the words "hang out" but more in a general sense I've heard that tone.
The LGBT types seem to use Jesus' love for all as "accepting" all. This is an evil tool to make wrong things seem right, IMO.

EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by EmmaLee »

I've heard it with those exact words - "Jesus hung out with..." too many times to count - including here on LDSFF, usually by people who have left the Church or claim to still be members, but constantly complain about aspects of it, etc. My sister (who served a faithful LDS mission, and was married in the temple) also uses it to condone her adultery. In her mind (and yes, I know what's in her mind, because she's told me repeatedly), Jesus "hanging out" with people who are overtly sinning with no desire to repent (or even admitting they have anything to repent for - which is absurd, as we all do) is Jesus' way of saying, "Ah heck, what you're doing is not so bad - it's a rough world - no probs." To the people who I personally know who use this exact phrase and connotation as in Matt's article above - that is the overriding theme, and they view it just as he described in his write-up.

User avatar
Silver Pie
seeker after Christ
Posts: 8989
Location: In the state that doesn't exist

Re: No, Jesus didn’t ‘hang out’ with sinners

Post by Silver Pie »

Now I understand, better, where you're coming from, EmmaLee. The difference is in how we view the phrase "hang out."

When I was a teenager in the 60s and 70s, we used the word all the time. It was the language of our generation. The definition was, "spend time with." It did not mean, "Do what they're doing all the time." It did not mean, "Do something wrong because the person you're with is doing it." You could leave if you were invited to go to some sin (a bar, drinking, drugs). To hang out did not mean to be with someone 24/7. I have hung out with people who did not share my standards of what I thought was right, but I did not do what they did. Sometimes they got mad at me. Sometimes we stopped being friends. But most of the time, they accepted that we were different, and they were okay with that.

Post Reply