Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

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Separatist
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

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David13
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

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There are those worried that now Ecuador is going to go just the same way.
dc

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gclayjr
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

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Because of the carnage of Venezuela, I don't think most people are aware of just how much Socialist wreckage both Brasil and Argentina are coping with.

Regards,

George Clay

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Joel
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Unrest in Venezuela Worsens, 'We Have a Humanitarian Crisis Here'

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"We have a humanitarian crisis here. People die and it's as if nothing was happening."
Thousands of people in Venezuela are taking to the streets and facing off riot police, angered by what they say is a slide toward authoritarianism.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

Post by BeNotDeceived »

gclayjr wrote: April 5th, 2017, 2:14 pm Simpleton,
So here is some "conspiracy " thinking.....

What are the fabrics holding our economy in america together? What is stopping our "economy" from imploding or exploding?
Why do our trillions of digitally produced and printed dollars still have value, with simply just being backed by the faith and trust in the government of the United States of America?
What is stopping us from becoming like Venezuela financially speaking?
Our dollar has most definitely lost purchasing power over the years, but why does it still have world dominance?
Well 100s of articles of our worthless money system could be quoted but what's the point. Just some rambling "conspiracy" thoughts...
After all of the rants I have read here about Rothschild's and the crashing of an airplane into the Pentagon being an illusion, I would not apologize for your question.

There is a lot that could explain it, but I would start with 2 words,

Breton Woods

After WW2, the US Dollar became the World Currency. If the French want to buy Oil from Venezuela, they don't pay in Francs, Euros, or Bolivars, the deal is consummated in US Dollars. Also as many dollars as we have printed there is still more trust in the USD than in just about any other currency. Foreigners are hoarding dollars, because they trust them more than their own currency. They are supporting our over inflated dollar, and we are reaping the benefits of this.

How long will this continue?

Quien Sabe

George Clay
Currency backed by energy, who woulda thunk. :-o

Silver
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

Post by Silver »

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-2 ... -car-plant

Venezuela Seizes General Motors Car Plant

by Tyler Durden
Apr 20, 2017 8:59 AM

While the US has a habit of invading or attacking sovereign nations any time the president's approval rating dips below a certain threshold, Venezuela has a similar, if less dramatic mechanism to provide a brief boost to Maduro's popularity: it nationalizes foreign plants on its soil.

It did so last July, when the country was once again suffocating under a wave of violent protests, when just hours after Kimberly-Clark said it will shutter its Venezuela operations after years of grappling with soaring inflation and a shortage of hard currency and raw materials, Venezuela retaliated by announcing it would seize the factory.

It did so again overnight, when General Motors said on Wednesday that Venezuelan authorities had illegally seized its plant in the industrial hub of Valencia; as a result the carmaker said it would immediately halt operations in Venezuela.

"Yesterday, GMV's (General Motors Venezolana) plant was unexpectedly taken by the public authorities, preventing normal operations. In addition, other assets of the company, such as vehicles, have been illegally taken from its facilities," the company said in a statement.

The automaker said the seizure showed a "total disregard" of its legal rights. "[GM] strongly rejects the arbitrary measures taken by the authorities and will vigorously take all legal actions, within and outside of Venezuela, to defend its rights."

GM's subsidiary in the country - General Motors Venezolana - has operated in Venezuela for nearly 70 years. It employs nearly 2,700 workers and has 79 dealers in the country. GM said it would make "separation payments" to its workers.

DesertWonderer
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

Post by DesertWonderer »

Will there be a legitimate civil war in Venezuela? I guess there could only be IF the military split in half and took sides?

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Joel
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

Post by Joel »

During protests in Venezuela a woman stood in front of an armored vehicle. Protesters are calling for Venezuelan president, Nicolas Maduro, to step down.

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gclayjr
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

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BeNotDeceived,
Currency backed by energy, who woulda thunk. :-o
I'm not sure if I suffer from Internet Asrbergers or not. Are you just being silly, or did you think that my explanation of Breton Woods actually had anything to do with energy? It merely was an agreement that all international business trades wold be in USD, which benefits us, because it was based upon the idea of the Solid Yankee Dollar...which of course is not true, but we do benefit from that illusion.


Regards,

George Clay

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

Post by BeNotDeceived »

gclayjr wrote: April 21st, 2017, 6:00 am BeNotDeceived,
Currency backed by energy, who woulda thunk. :-o
I'm not sure if I suffer from Internet Asrbergers or not. Are you just being silly, or did you think that my explanation of Breton Woods actually had anything to do with energy? It merely was an agreement that all international business trades wold be in USD, which benefits us, because it was based upon the idea of the Solid Yankee Dollar...which of course is not true, but we do benefit from that illusion.


Regards,

George Clay
Energy would be a good choice to back currency i.e. an Energy Dollar.

Precious metals are mostly precious because you think they're precious when really they aren't much better that our current fiat situation made necessary by limited supply which can't support a growing population and a fluid economy.

Energy has real value and is not of limited supply. Some methods of production pollute or are dangerous and must be regulated. An Energy Dollar would represent so many Kilo-Watt Hours (KWHr), joules, etc., with conversion ratios needed in practice.

A quart of wheat was used in pioneer days as a unit of barter; food is what might be argued as the most valuable life-sustaining form of energy. A barrel of oil is almost a de-facto currency on the world market that is gradually slipping from US valuation.

Anyway, I find it an intriguing idea that may come into play when our fiat currency finally does collapse.

Brenton Woods was unfamiliar to me and googling it I found this:

End of Bretton Woods Agreement
The Bretton Woods Agreement was dissolved between 1968 and 1973. An overvaluation of the U.S. dollar led to concerns over the exchange rates and tie to the price of gold. President Richard Nixon called for a temporary suspension of the dollar’s convertibility. Countries were then free to choose any exchange agreement, except the price of gold. In 1973, foreign governments let currencies float, which put an end to the Bretton Woods system. ... http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bre ... eement.asp

When the illusion of floating currencies does collapse, replacing them with something based on real value may become necessary to instill confidence. :-)

Silver
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

Post by Silver »

BeNotDeceived wrote: April 21st, 2017, 7:19 am
gclayjr wrote: April 21st, 2017, 6:00 am BeNotDeceived,
Currency backed by energy, who woulda thunk. :-o
I'm not sure if I suffer from Internet Asrbergers or not. Are you just being silly, or did you think that my explanation of Breton Woods actually had anything to do with energy? It merely was an agreement that all international business trades wold be in USD, which benefits us, because it was based upon the idea of the Solid Yankee Dollar...which of course is not true, but we do benefit from that illusion.


Regards,

George Clay
Energy would be a good choice to back currency i.e. an Energy Dollar.

Precious metals are mostly precious because you think they're precious when really they aren't much better that our current fiat situation made necessary by limited supply which can't support a growing population and a fluid economy.

Energy has real value and is not of limited supply. Some methods of production pollute or are dangerous and must be regulated. An Energy Dollar would represent so many Kilo-Watt Hours (KWHr), joules, etc., with conversion ratios needed in practice.

A quart of wheat was used in pioneer days as a unit of barter; food is what might be argued as the most valuable life-sustaining form of energy. A barrel of oil is almost a de-facto currency on the world market that is gradually slipping from US valuation.

Anyway, I find it an intriguing idea that may come into play when our fiat currency finally does collapse.

Brenton Woods was unfamiliar to me and googling it I found this:

End of Bretton Woods Agreement
The Bretton Woods Agreement was dissolved between 1968 and 1973. An overvaluation of the U.S. dollar led to concerns over the exchange rates and tie to the price of gold. President Richard Nixon called for a temporary suspension of the dollar’s convertibility. Countries were then free to choose any exchange agreement, except the price of gold. In 1973, foreign governments let currencies float, which put an end to the Bretton Woods system. ... http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bre ... eement.asp

When the illusion of floating currencies does collapse, replacing them with something based on real value may become necessary to instill confidence. :-)
Everything you need to know about precious metals:
Doctrine & Covenants 98:
4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.

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gclayjr
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Posts: 2727
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

Post by gclayjr »

BeNotDeceived,
When the illusion of floating currencies does collapse, replacing them with something based on real value may become necessary to instill confidence.
I get it now, you are suggesting what otta happen. I haven't thought it through, but I'm sure it's better than what is today.

Regards,

George Clay

DesertWonderer
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Posts: 1178

Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

Post by DesertWonderer »

Silver wrote: April 21st, 2017, 9:03 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: April 21st, 2017, 7:19 am
gclayjr wrote: April 21st, 2017, 6:00 am BeNotDeceived,
Currency backed by energy, who woulda thunk. :-o
I'm not sure if I suffer from Internet Asrbergers or not. Are you just being silly, or did you think that my explanation of Breton Woods actually had anything to do with energy? It merely was an agreement that all international business trades wold be in USD, which benefits us, because it was based upon the idea of the Solid Yankee Dollar...which of course is not true, but we do benefit from that illusion.


Regards,

George Clay
Energy would be a good choice to back currency i.e. an Energy Dollar.

Precious metals are mostly precious because you think they're precious when really they aren't much better that our current fiat situation made necessary by limited supply which can't support a growing population and a fluid economy.

Energy has real value and is not of limited supply. Some methods of production pollute or are dangerous and must be regulated. An Energy Dollar would represent so many Kilo-Watt Hours (KWHr), joules, etc., with conversion ratios needed in practice.

A quart of wheat was used in pioneer days as a unit of barter; food is what might be argued as the most valuable life-sustaining form of energy. A barrel of oil is almost a de-facto currency on the world market that is gradually slipping from US valuation.

Anyway, I find it an intriguing idea that may come into play when our fiat currency finally does collapse.

Brenton Woods was unfamiliar to me and googling it I found this:

End of Bretton Woods Agreement
The Bretton Woods Agreement was dissolved between 1968 and 1973. An overvaluation of the U.S. dollar led to concerns over the exchange rates and tie to the price of gold. President Richard Nixon called for a temporary suspension of the dollar’s convertibility. Countries were then free to choose any exchange agreement, except the price of gold. In 1973, foreign governments let currencies float, which put an end to the Bretton Woods system. ... http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bre ... eement.asp

When the illusion of floating currencies does collapse, replacing them with something based on real value may become necessary to instill confidence. :-)
Everything you need to know about precious metals:
Doctrine & Covenants 98:
4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
(said in the best Mr Rogers voice I could muster) Boys and girls: Can you say gospel hobby? Sure. Sure you can.
Last edited by DesertWonderer on April 21st, 2017, 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Silver
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Posts: 5247

Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

Post by Silver »

DesertWonderer wrote: April 21st, 2017, 11:49 am
Silver wrote: April 21st, 2017, 9:03 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: April 21st, 2017, 7:19 am
gclayjr wrote: April 21st, 2017, 6:00 am BeNotDeceived,



I'm not sure if I suffer from Internet Asrbergers or not. Are you just being silly, or did you think that my explanation of Breton Woods actually had anything to do with energy? It merely was an agreement that all international business trades wold be in USD, which benefits us, because it was based upon the idea of the Solid Yankee Dollar...which of course is not true, but we do benefit from that illusion.


Regards,

George Clay
Energy would be a good choice to back currency i.e. an Energy Dollar.

Precious metals are mostly precious because you think they're precious when really they aren't much better that our current fiat situation made necessary by limited supply which can't support a growing population and a fluid economy.

Energy has real value and is not of limited supply. Some methods of production pollute or are dangerous and must be regulated. An Energy Dollar would represent so many Kilo-Watt Hours (KWHr), joules, etc., with conversion ratios needed in practice.

A quart of wheat was used in pioneer days as a unit of barter; food is what might be argued as the most valuable life-sustaining form of energy. A barrel of oil is almost a de-facto currency on the world market that is gradually slipping from US valuation.

Anyway, I find it an intriguing idea that may come into play when our fiat currency finally does collapse.

Brenton Woods was unfamiliar to me and googling it I found this:

End of Bretton Woods Agreement
The Bretton Woods Agreement was dissolved between 1968 and 1973. An overvaluation of the U.S. dollar led to concerns over the exchange rates and tie to the price of gold. President Richard Nixon called for a temporary suspension of the dollar’s convertibility. Countries were then free to choose any exchange agreement, except the price of gold. In 1973, foreign governments let currencies float, which put an end to the Bretton Woods system. ... http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bre ... eement.asp

When the illusion of floating currencies does collapse, replacing them with something based on real value may become necessary to instill confidence. :-)
Everything you need to know about precious metals:
Doctrine & Covenants 98:
4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
(saidi in the best Mr Rogers voice I could muster) Boys and girls: Can you say gospel hobby? Sure. Sure you can.
I suppose your last comment was addressed to me. If so, thank you very much.

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BeNotDeceived
Agent38
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Silver wrote: April 21st, 2017, 9:03 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: April 21st, 2017, 7:19 am
gclayjr wrote: April 21st, 2017, 6:00 am BeNotDeceived,
Currency backed by energy, who woulda thunk. :-o
I'm not sure if I suffer from Internet Asrbergers or not. Are you just being silly, or did you think that my explanation of Breton Woods actually had anything to do with energy? It merely was an agreement that all international business trades wold be in USD, which benefits us, because it was based upon the idea of the Solid Yankee Dollar...which of course is not true, but we do benefit from that illusion.


Regards,

George Clay
Energy would be a good choice to back currency i.e. an Energy Dollar.

Precious metals are mostly precious because you think they're precious when really they aren't much better that our current fiat situation made necessary by limited supply which can't support a growing population and a fluid economy.

Energy has real value and is not of limited supply. Some methods of production pollute or are dangerous and must be regulated. An Energy Dollar would represent so many Kilo-Watt Hours (KWHr), joules, etc., with conversion ratios needed in practice.

A quart of wheat was used in pioneer days as a unit of barter; food is what might be argued as the most valuable life-sustaining form of energy. A barrel of oil is almost a de-facto currency on the world market that is gradually slipping from US valuation.

Anyway, I find it an intriguing idea that may come into play when our fiat currency finally does collapse.

Brenton Woods was unfamiliar to me and googling it I found this:

End of Bretton Woods Agreement
The Bretton Woods Agreement was dissolved between 1968 and 1973. An overvaluation of the U.S. dollar led to concerns over the exchange rates and tie to the price of gold. President Richard Nixon called for a temporary suspension of the dollar’s convertibility. Countries were then free to choose any exchange agreement, except the price of gold. In 1973, foreign governments let currencies float, which put an end to the Bretton Woods system. ... http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bre ... eement.asp

When the illusion of floating currencies does collapse, replacing them with something based on real value may become necessary to instill confidence. :-)
Everything you need to know about precious metals:
Doctrine & Covenants 98:
4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
Where are metals mentioned? I seem to recall the roads of Zion are paved with gold, which begs the question:

What happens to the value when large amounts are recovered from the earths molten core?

Even metals are produced by nuclear fusion which may one day come under man's control.

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Joel
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

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Image

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Joel
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

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gclayjr wrote: April 21st, 2017, 11:45 am BeNotDeceived,
When the illusion of floating currencies does collapse, replacing them with something based on real value may become necessary to instill confidence.
I get it now, you are suggesting what otta happen. I haven't thought it through, but I'm sure it's better than what is today.

Regards,

George Clay
The Parable of the Good Samaritan, better described as an Allegory, suggests that Work in those days was the basis of money i.e. One Dinero for one days work. KWHrs, BTUs, Barrels of light sweet crude all represent an amount of Work (power output for a specified amount of time) that can be expressed as an aptly named metric unit of Joules, or Giga Joules is 1 billion Joules, and better fits common amounts of exchange. 5-20% conversion charge form real Joules into eJoules or vice-versa, would be needed in practice to cover losses inherent in the conversion processes. Certified production capability could serve in place of actual stores, by applying block-chain algorithms, for absolute accountability of real resources.

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BeNotDeceived
Agent38
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Re: Venezuela: End Stage Socialism

Post by BeNotDeceived »


Turkey, Israel and doomsday clock now set at two minutes to midnight.

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