Prophets have said that he appeared to them in latter-day temples. Their words represent scripture to me. There is other scriptural evidence that the Lord appeared to others in the Old Testament, New Testament, and Book of Mormon, other than during the 33 years he lived on earth.GrandMasterB wrote:Where is that scriptural evidence that he time travels? Pray tell.Matchmaker wrote:I will not put Jesus in a box. He can do whatever he wants. We have scriptural evidence already that he time travels. Why couldn't he appear to us in the Conference Center in a suit and tie with his hair trimmed, if he so chose to? If he did not want to draw attention to himself and wanted to mingle among his Saints unnoticed, the suit would work better. I think he would look more out of place in open toed sandals and long hair.
"Visions of Glory" a false book
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2266
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
- inho
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3286
- Location: in a galaxy far, far away
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
Please, elaborate more. How are the appearances of Christ time travel?Matchmaker wrote:Prophets have said that he appeared to them in latter-day temples. Their words represent scripture to me. There is other scriptural evidence that the Lord appeared to others in the Old Testament, New Testament, and Book of Mormon, other than during the 33 years he lived on earth.GrandMasterB wrote:Where is that scriptural evidence that he time travels? Pray tell.Matchmaker wrote:I will not put Jesus in a box. He can do whatever he wants. We have scriptural evidence already that he time travels. Why couldn't he appear to us in the Conference Center in a suit and tie with his hair trimmed, if he so chose to? If he did not want to draw attention to himself and wanted to mingle among his Saints unnoticed, the suit would work better. I think he would look more out of place in open toed sandals and long hair.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2266
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
Additional information - I think of our timeline on earth as being vertical and not horizontal.inho wrote:Please, elaborate more. How are the appearances of Christ time travel?Matchmaker wrote:Prophets have said that he appeared to them in latter-day temples. Their words represent scripture to me. There is other scriptural evidence that the Lord appeared to others in the Old Testament, New Testament, and Book of Mormon, other than during the 33 years he lived on earth.GrandMasterB wrote:Where is that scriptural evidence that he time travels? Pray tell.Matchmaker wrote:I will not put Jesus in a box. He can do whatever he wants. We have scriptural evidence already that he time travels. Why couldn't he appear to us in the Conference Center in a suit and tie with his hair trimmed, if he so chose to? If he did not want to draw attention to himself and wanted to mingle among his Saints unnoticed, the suit would work better. I think he would look more out of place in open toed sandals and long hair.
- skmo
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4495
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
Hooold on there, Action Jackson, I've watched almost every DS9 episode 2-3 times (some much more) and I don't recall any crappy episodes of it. TNG had a few early lunkers (and I won't go into the chick flick "Sub Rosa" episode...) and VOY got a bit blather-y at times, but DS9 stands head, shoulders, and ribcage above the other TOS offshoots. I still want to name a dog "Dax" one day.JK4Woods wrote:Science fiction.... like a crappy episode of Deep Space 9.....
(In case anyone mistakes my nerd-gasm here for actual disapproval, relax. I'm just fawning over my disappointment that we'll never get a high budget DS9 movie.)
- shadow
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: St. George
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
I was never a fan of Star Trek until DS9. The intro sucked me in.skmo wrote:Hooold on there, Action Jackson, I've watched almost every DS9 episode 2-3 times (some much more) and I don't recall any crappy episodes of it. TNG had a few early lunkers (and I won't go into the chick flick "Sub Rosa" episode...) and VOY got a bit blather-y at times, but DS9 stands head, shoulders, and ribcage above the other TOS offshoots. I still want to name a dog "Dax" one day.JK4Woods wrote:Science fiction.... like a crappy episode of Deep Space 9.....
(In case anyone mistakes my nerd-gasm here for actual disapproval, relax. I'm just fawning over my disappointment that we'll never get a high budget DS9 movie.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwNFUgYWGG4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- GrandMasterB
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1125
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
And how is that time traveling exactly?Matchmaker wrote:Prophets have said that he appeared to them in latter-day temples. Their words represent scripture to me. There is other scriptural evidence that the Lord appeared to others in the Old Testament, New Testament, and Book of Mormon, other than during the 33 years he lived on earth.GrandMasterB wrote:Where is that scriptural evidence that he time travels? Pray tell.Matchmaker wrote:I will not put Jesus in a box. He can do whatever he wants. We have scriptural evidence already that he time travels. Why couldn't he appear to us in the Conference Center in a suit and tie with his hair trimmed, if he so chose to? If he did not want to draw attention to himself and wanted to mingle among his Saints unnoticed, the suit would work better. I think he would look more out of place in open toed sandals and long hair.
- skmo
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4495
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
How can it fail? Sisko punches Q, Worf (briefly) becomes Chancellor of the Klingon High Council...shadow wrote:I was never a fan of Star Trek until DS9. The intro sucked me in.
- GrandMasterB
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1125
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
So he time travelled according to the gospel of matchmaker?Matchmaker wrote:Additional information - I think of our timeline on earth as being vertical and not horizontal.inho wrote:Please, elaborate more. How are the appearances of Christ time travel?Matchmaker wrote:Prophets have said that he appeared to them in latter-day temples. Their words represent scripture to me. There is other scriptural evidence that the Lord appeared to others in the Old Testament, New Testament, and Book of Mormon, other than during the 33 years he lived on earth.GrandMasterB wrote:
Where is that scriptural evidence that he time travels? Pray tell.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1178
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
I could be wrong but I thought in one of his missions to some individual he went in the from of a girl to help some person. I don't have the book any longer so I can't confirm it. Just for the record, there is so much so wrong with this book I have no need to make up stuff to refute it.Todd wrote:Is this what you are referring to desertwonder?DesertWonderer wrote:
Actually, it was Spencer that was time travelling as he stepped into his mirror / portal / teleporter that was in his office in the NJ temple right next to Christ's office! Which of course happened after he shape-shifted into the form of a girl (For those of you who have not read this book, no I'm not making that up).
=))
" It may seem strange that we were changed, but history is filled with stories of angels appearing in many forms, sometimes as old men, young women, or even a child’s playmate. Yet we know that angels are ageless and not old or young, so they obviously come to us in the form that blesses us most. The only difference here was that we were now those angels. Male angels always appeared as male, and females always appeared as female, but in any guise we were inspired to take."
If not could you direct me to where he said he shape shifted into a girl? Or are you just making that up?
Going back to your quote from the book: "history is filled with stories of angels appearing in many forms, sometimes as old men, young women, or even a child’s playmate. Yet we know that angels are ageless and not old or young, so they obviously come to us in the form that blesses us most. The only difference here was that we were now those angels." Where is anything in this statement corroborated by scripture? "Stories" hold little value in corroborating Spencer's new doctrine.
Speaking of stories, it appears that a significant portion of Spencer's tribulation events are mostly just "creative use" of previous stories that have been proven to have no validity (i.e. parts of Patriarch Evans, Sarah Menet, John Taylor visions.
Speaking of creative use of previous works, I really enjoyed the scenes from The Matrix and Ghost that it appears he incorporated too.
Bottom line for me is this guy is no different from JR, SM, etc in that they have mental health challenges, read conspiracy theories, false visions and it scrambles about in their heads and they think it happened to them.
- inho
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3286
- Location: in a galaxy far, far away
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
As long as it is still one-dimensional it does not matter whether it is horizontal or vertical.Matchmaker wrote: Additional information - I think of our timeline on earth as being vertical and not horizontal.
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- captain of 100
- Posts: 374
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
Huh, my bad.Todd wrote:The author died shortly after the book was published. I doubt he laughed very much.paulrobots wrote:. I believe there is no spencer, and the author is laughing all the way to the bank.
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- captain of 100
- Posts: 460
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
So, bottom line, you don't have a reference about where spencer appeared in the form of a girl? Ok.DesertWonderer wrote:I could be wrong but I thought in one of his missions to some individual he went in the from of a girl to help some person. I don't have the book any longer so I can't confirm it. Just for the record, there is so much so wrong with this book I have no need to make up stuff to refute it.Todd wrote:Is this what you are referring to desertwonder?DesertWonderer wrote:
Actually, it was Spencer that was time travelling as he stepped into his mirror / portal / teleporter that was in his office in the NJ temple right next to Christ's office! Which of course happened after he shape-shifted into the form of a girl (For those of you who have not read this book, no I'm not making that up).
=))
" It may seem strange that we were changed, but history is filled with stories of angels appearing in many forms, sometimes as old men, young women, or even a child’s playmate. Yet we know that angels are ageless and not old or young, so they obviously come to us in the form that blesses us most. The only difference here was that we were now those angels. Male angels always appeared as male, and females always appeared as female, but in any guise we were inspired to take."
If not could you direct me to where he said he shape shifted into a girl? Or are you just making that up?
Going back to your quote from the book: "history is filled with stories of angels appearing in many forms, sometimes as old men, young women, or even a child’s playmate. Yet we know that angels are ageless and not old or young, so they obviously come to us in the form that blesses us most. The only difference here was that we were now those angels." Where is anything in this statement corroborated by scripture? "Stories" hold little value in corroborating Spencer's new doctrine.
Speaking of stories, it appears that a significant portion of Spencer's tribulation events are mostly just "creative use" of previous stories that have been proven to have no validity (i.e. parts of Patriarch Evans, Sarah Menet, John Taylor visions.
Speaking of creative use of previous works, I really enjoyed the scenes from The Matrix and Ghost that it appears he incorporated too.
Bottom line for me is this guy is no different from JR, SM, etc in that they have mental health challenges, read conspiracy theories, false visions and it scrambles about in their heads and they think it happened to them.
Since you don't own the book and haven't read it in a long time, I did several word searches in my e-book copy for "angel", "girl", "woman", "appeared", "mission" "help", etc. and could not find anything to corroborate your claim. In fact the only thing I found was the quote I posted previously which says, " Male angels always appeared as male, and females always appeared as female."
For the record I have similar problems with spencer's story as you do, so you are preaching to the choir. I just think it's more effective to make accurate statements to forward a position.
Cheers.
Last edited by Todd on January 11th, 2017, 2:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
I pulled the book up on a Kindle app and searched time. In the first 400 hits I didn't see a single reference to time travel. In visions Spencer mentioned the vision jumping around in time, but he didn't mention his physical body traveling through time.
- GrandMasterB
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1125
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
Hmmm. He visited the past through portals, in disguise, to try and save people from the tribulations, which had already happened and were over in his time. And that is not synonymous with time travel or traveling back in time? I don't know how you reasoned through that one, but congratulation, you did!brianj wrote:I pulled the book up on a Kindle app and searched time. In the first 400 hits I didn't see a single reference to time travel. In visions Spencer mentioned the vision jumping around in time, but he didn't mention his physical body traveling through time.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
Let's see... somebody mentions time travel, I search every instance of the four letter sequence TIME, I don't find any reference to travel through time, and you say that I am reasoning something doesn't exist. Evel Knevil couldn't have made that jump!GrandMasterB wrote:Hmmm. He visited the past through portals, in disguise, to try and save people from the tribulations, which had already happened and were over in his time. And that is not synonymous with time travel or traveling back in time? I don't know how you reasoned through that one, but congratulation, you did!brianj wrote:I pulled the book up on a Kindle app and searched time. In the first 400 hits I didn't see a single reference to time travel. In visions Spencer mentioned the vision jumping around in time, but he didn't mention his physical body traveling through time.
How about this: I just searched the word past and found 39 instances in his book. On page 176 Spencer says that he could see the past, present, and future in a specific location as it pertained to his assignment, but doesn't mention time travel. On page 211 he claimed that seer stones allowed one to see the past, present, or future but again he doesn't mention traveling through time.
So to recap, I didn't find a single use of the word time in VoG that related to time travel. I didn't find a single use of the word past that related to time travel. What's next? Additionally of the 23 instances the word travel appears, there isn't a single reference to travel through time. I didn't find any reference to time travel using the word visit.
Reviewing the section of the book regarding visits to groups coming to Zion, I see references to visiting people, as well as seeing their past, but no mention of traveling through time to do so.
Perhaps if such a statement really exists in the book you could provide a page number or a quote instead of accusing me of twisting the meaning of words in the book.
- AI2.0
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3917
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
If these NDE's are real, they are not literal and I think that's where people go wrong.Spider wrote:Even if Spencer saw this detailed vision, we would be wise to assume some of it is not literal.
I read Visions of Glory and found it interesting--some parts wrong true but others did not. I also don't know if the book is a true rendition of what 'Spencer' experienced because it was interpreted and presented by John Pontius and I'm sure he couldn't help but put his own 'spin' in it. One thing, Spencer never tried to sell more books or go on the lecture circuit.
- AI2.0
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3917
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
I also don't remember him claiming to appear as a little girl. I think it's important to be accurate in criticisms. It's misleading to criticize 'Spencer' for things that are not true and would have appreciated a reference from Desertwonderer to back up his claim.Todd wrote:So, bottom line, you don't have a reference about where spencer appeared in the form of a girl? Ok.DesertWonderer wrote:I could be wrong but I thought in one of his missions to some individual he went in the from of a girl to help some person. I don't have the book any longer so I can't confirm it. Just for the record, there is so much so wrong with this book I have no need to make up stuff to refute it.Todd wrote:Is this what you are referring to desertwonder?DesertWonderer wrote:
Actually, it was Spencer that was time travelling as he stepped into his mirror / portal / teleporter that was in his office in the NJ temple right next to Christ's office! Which of course happened after he shape-shifted into the form of a girl (For those of you who have not read this book, no I'm not making that up).
=))
" It may seem strange that we were changed, but history is filled with stories of angels appearing in many forms, sometimes as old men, young women, or even a child’s playmate. Yet we know that angels are ageless and not old or young, so they obviously come to us in the form that blesses us most. The only difference here was that we were now those angels. Male angels always appeared as male, and females always appeared as female, but in any guise we were inspired to take."
If not could you direct me to where he said he shape shifted into a girl? Or are you just making that up?
Going back to your quote from the book: "history is filled with stories of angels appearing in many forms, sometimes as old men, young women, or even a child’s playmate. Yet we know that angels are ageless and not old or young, so they obviously come to us in the form that blesses us most. The only difference here was that we were now those angels." Where is anything in this statement corroborated by scripture? "Stories" hold little value in corroborating Spencer's new doctrine.
Speaking of stories, it appears that a significant portion of Spencer's tribulation events are mostly just "creative use" of previous stories that have been proven to have no validity (i.e. parts of Patriarch Evans, Sarah Menet, John Taylor visions.
Speaking of creative use of previous works, I really enjoyed the scenes from The Matrix and Ghost that it appears he incorporated too.
Bottom line for me is this guy is no different from JR, SM, etc in that they have mental health challenges, read conspiracy theories, false visions and it scrambles about in their heads and they think it happened to them.
Since you don't own the book and haven't read it in a long time, I did several word searches in my e-book copy for "angel", "girl", "woman", "appeared", "mission" "help", etc. and could not find anything to corroborate your claim. In fact the only thing I found was the quote I posted previously which says, " Male angels always appeared as male, and females always appeared as female."
For the record I have similar problems with spencer's story as you do, so you are preaching to the choir. I just think it's more effective to make accurate statements to forward a position.
Cheers.
I also didn't have any problem with what Spencer said in that quote above. It was one of the things that rang true when I read it.
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- captain of 10
- Posts: 15
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
I'm more open to crazy ideas like the ten tribes living in hollow earth because I've seen UFO's first hand with my companion and I can't explain it. That's besides the point... I found a nde from an unrelated guy that also saw spirits possessing vulnerable addicted bodies:
"They then traveled to a bar somewhere on Earth which was filled with sailors drinking heavily. Spirits surrounded the sailors as they tried desperately, and in vain, to grasp the shot glasses to get a drink. Other spirits tried to control the sailors' alcoholic behavior. Ritchie learns these are the spirits of people who died still having a severe alcoholic addiction which went beyond the physical. He is bewildered as he observes one of the sailors passing out causing the sailor's protective aura surrounding him to crack open. When it does, it allows a spirit to scramble into the sailor's unconscious body. This scene was repeated over and over." From Dr. George Ritchie. That's one idea I've never heard before coming from 2 unrelated people.
"They then traveled to a bar somewhere on Earth which was filled with sailors drinking heavily. Spirits surrounded the sailors as they tried desperately, and in vain, to grasp the shot glasses to get a drink. Other spirits tried to control the sailors' alcoholic behavior. Ritchie learns these are the spirits of people who died still having a severe alcoholic addiction which went beyond the physical. He is bewildered as he observes one of the sailors passing out causing the sailor's protective aura surrounding him to crack open. When it does, it allows a spirit to scramble into the sailor's unconscious body. This scene was repeated over and over." From Dr. George Ritchie. That's one idea I've never heard before coming from 2 unrelated people.
- GrandMasterB
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1125
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
I see how I was able to waste more of your time. Get it? Time?brianj wrote:Let's see... somebody mentions time travel, I search every instance of the four letter sequence TIME, I don't find any reference to travel through time, and you say that I am reasoning something doesn't exist. Evel Knevil couldn't have made that jump!GrandMasterB wrote:Hmmm. He visited the past through portals, in disguise, to try and save people from the tribulations, which had already happened and were over in his time. And that is not synonymous with time travel or traveling back in time? I don't know how you reasoned through that one, but congratulation, you did!brianj wrote:I pulled the book up on a Kindle app and searched time. In the first 400 hits I didn't see a single reference to time travel. In visions Spencer mentioned the vision jumping around in time, but he didn't mention his physical body traveling through time.
How about this: I just searched the word past and found 39 instances in his book. On page 176 Spencer says that he could see the past, present, and future in a specific location as it pertained to his assignment, but doesn't mention time travel. On page 211 he claimed that seer stones allowed one to see the past, present, or future but again he doesn't mention traveling through time.
So to recap, I didn't find a single use of the word time in VoG that related to time travel. I didn't find a single use of the word past that related to time travel. What's next? Additionally of the 23 instances the word travel appears, there isn't a single reference to travel through time. I didn't find any reference to time travel using the word visit.
Reviewing the section of the book regarding visits to groups coming to Zion, I see references to visiting people, as well as seeing their past, but no mention of traveling through time to do so.
Perhaps if such a statement really exists in the book you could provide a page number or a quote instead of accusing me of twisting the meaning of words in the book.
- GrandMasterB
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1125
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
You must not be using your kindle correctly. I found this and it has both the word time and past in the same sentence.brianj wrote:Let's see... somebody mentions time travel, I search every instance of the four letter sequence TIME, I don't find any reference to travel through time, and you say that I am reasoning something doesn't exist. Evel Knevil couldn't have made that jump!GrandMasterB wrote:Hmmm. He visited the past through portals, in disguise, to try and save people from the tribulations, which had already happened and were over in his time. And that is not synonymous with time travel or traveling back in time? I don't know how you reasoned through that one, but congratulation, you did!brianj wrote:I pulled the book up on a Kindle app and searched time. In the first 400 hits I didn't see a single reference to time travel. In visions Spencer mentioned the vision jumping around in time, but he didn't mention his physical body traveling through time.
How about this: I just searched the word past and found 39 instances in his book. On page 176 Spencer says that he could see the past, present, and future in a specific location as it pertained to his assignment, but doesn't mention time travel. On page 211 he claimed that seer stones allowed one to see the past, present, or future but again he doesn't mention traveling through time.
So to recap, I didn't find a single use of the word time in VoG that related to time travel. I didn't find a single use of the word past that related to time travel. What's next? Additionally of the 23 instances the word travel appears, there isn't a single reference to travel through time. I didn't find any reference to time travel using the word visit.
Reviewing the section of the book regarding visits to groups coming to Zion, I see references to visiting people, as well as seeing their past, but no mention of traveling through time to do so.
Perhaps if such a statement really exists in the book you could provide a page number or a quote instead of accusing me of twisting the meaning of words in the book.
"We could go to any group, even into their past, to prepare them, then move forward in time and visit them again” (177)
- AI2.0
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3917
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
This from Dr. Ritchie's 'Return from Tomorrow' rang true with me also, and that book has been around since the late 70's I believe. It also makes sense that if we suffer from physical addictions in life, we will suffer even worse with them when we have no way to satisfy them, being in spirit form. I felt 'Spencer's' viewing the man looking at pornography rang true (and it may be that it was someone he knew and loved, not a random stranger). It can be a form of addiction in some people. Just like some can drink alcohol and can take or leave it, there are various forms of need and some need that 'fix' more than others.Sir wrote:I'm more open to crazy ideas like the ten tribes living in hollow earth because I've seen UFO's first hand with my companion and I can't explain it. That's besides the point... I found a nde from an unrelated guy that also saw spirits possessing vulnerable addicted bodies:
"They then traveled to a bar somewhere on Earth which was filled with sailors drinking heavily. Spirits surrounded the sailors as they tried desperately, and in vain, to grasp the shot glasses to get a drink. Other spirits tried to control the sailors' alcoholic behavior. Ritchie learns these are the spirits of people who died still having a severe alcoholic addiction which went beyond the physical. He is bewildered as he observes one of the sailors passing out causing the sailor's protective aura surrounding him to crack open. When it does, it allows a spirit to scramble into the sailor's unconscious body. This scene was repeated over and over." From Dr. George Ritchie. That's one idea I've never heard before coming from 2 unrelated people.
- AlbertaBronco
- captain of 100
- Posts: 251
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
Work of fiction or an actual vision. It doesn't really matter. It was a captivating read.
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- captain of 100
- Posts: 108
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
DesertWonderer wrote:I could be wrong but I thought in one of his missions to some individual he went in the from of a girl to help some person. I don't have the book any longer so I can't confirm it. Just for the record, there is so much so wrong with this book I have no need to make up stuff to refute it.Todd wrote:Is this what you are referring to desertwonder?DesertWonderer wrote:
Actually, it was Spencer that was time travelling as he stepped into his mirror / portal / teleporter that was in his office in the NJ temple right next to Christ's office! Which of course happened after he shape-shifted into the form of a girl (For those of you who have not read this book, no I'm not making that up).
=))
" It may seem strange that we were changed, but history is filled with stories of angels appearing in many forms, sometimes as old men, young women, or even a child’s playmate. Yet we know that angels are ageless and not old or young, so they obviously come to us in the form that blesses us most. The only difference here was that we were now those angels. Male angels always appeared as male, and females always appeared as female, but in any guise we were inspired to take."
If not could you direct me to where he said he shape shifted into a girl? Or are you just making that up?
Going back to your quote from the book: "history is filled with stories of angels appearing in many forms, sometimes as old men, young women, or even a child’s playmate. Yet we know that angels are ageless and not old or young, so they obviously come to us in the form that blesses us most. The only difference here was that we were now those angels." Where is anything in this statement corroborated by scripture? "Stories" hold little value in corroborating Spencer's new doctrine.
Speaking of stories, it appears that a significant portion of Spencer's tribulation events are mostly just "creative use" of previous stories that have been proven to have no validity (i.e. parts of Patriarch Evans, Sarah Menet, John Taylor visions.
Speaking of creative use of previous works, I really enjoyed the scenes from The Matrix and Ghost that it appears he incorporated too.
Bottom line for me is this guy is no different from JR, SM, etc in that they have mental health challenges, read conspiracy theories, false visions and it scrambles about in their heads and they think it happened to them.
There actually is a big difference between Spencer and the others. After this book was published and reportedly reviewed by the Brethren, including an Apostle, he was called to be a bishop. The reason I see that as significant is, while not a church endorsement, the Lord and the first presidency had no concerns about entrusting him with the responsibilities of being a bishop. From what I understand, he regularly meets with the twelve on matters outside of his calling. This man has credibility with the twelve apostles.Bottom line for me is this guy is no different from JR, SM, etc in that they have mental health challenges, read conspiracy theories, false visions and it scrambles about in their heads and they think it happened to them.
Y'all really need to be more restrained in offering opinions about people of whom you know nothing. Making such judgments does not present well and diminishes your credibility.
Last edited by DRC53 on January 12th, 2017, 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10895
- Location: Between here and Standing Rock
Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
Amen to that one.DRC53 wrote:DesertWonderer wrote:I could be wrong but I thought in one of his missions to some individual he went in the from of a girl to help some person. I don't have the book any longer so I can't confirm it. Just for the record, there is so much so wrong with this book I have no need to make up stuff to refute it.Todd wrote:Is this what you are referring to desertwonder?DesertWonderer wrote:
Actually, it was Spencer that was time travelling as he stepped into his mirror / portal / teleporter that was in his office in the NJ temple right next to Christ's office! Which of course happened after he shape-shifted into the form of a girl (For those of you who have not read this book, no I'm not making that up).
=))
" It may seem strange that we were changed, but history is filled with stories of angels appearing in many forms, sometimes as old men, young women, or even a child’s playmate. Yet we know that angels are ageless and not old or young, so they obviously come to us in the form that blesses us most. The only difference here was that we were now those angels. Male angels always appeared as male, and females always appeared as female, but in any guise we were inspired to take."
If not could you direct me to where he said he shape shifted into a girl? Or are you just making that up?
Going back to your quote from the book: "history is filled with stories of angels appearing in many forms, sometimes as old men, young women, or even a child’s playmate. Yet we know that angels are ageless and not old or young, so they obviously come to us in the form that blesses us most. The only difference here was that we were now those angels." Where is anything in this statement corroborated by scripture? "Stories" hold little value in corroborating Spencer's new doctrine.
Speaking of stories, it appears that a significant portion of Spencer's tribulation events are mostly just "creative use" of previous stories that have been proven to have no validity (i.e. parts of Patriarch Evans, Sarah Menet, John Taylor visions.
Speaking of creative use of previous works, I really enjoyed the scenes from The Matrix and Ghost that it appears he incorporated too.
Bottom line for me is this guy is no different from JR, SM, etc in that they have mental health challenges, read conspiracy theories, false visions and it scrambles about in their heads and they think it happened to them.There actually is a big difference between Spencer and the others. After this book was published and reportedly reviewed by the Brethren, including an Apostle, he was called to be a bishop. The reason I see that as significant is, while not a church endorsement, the Lord and the first presidency had no concerns about entrusting him with the responsibilities of being a bishop. From what I understand, he regularly meets with the twelve on matters outside of his calling. This man has credibility with the twelve apostles.Bottom line for me is this guy is no different from JR, SM, etc in that they have mental health challenges, read conspiracy theories, false visions and it scrambles about in their heads and they think it happened to them.
Y'all really need to be more restrained in offering opinions about people of whom you know nothing. Making such judgments does not present well and diminishes your credibility.
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book
Church callings and positions don't equal church endorsement. We all know or have heard of mission presidents or bishops that have been excommunicated for affairs or other great sins. Even John D Lee was called to high leadership after MMM.