Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

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TrueIntent
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

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braingrunt wrote:And if he had, what exactly would that show?
That usually the most judgmental ones never kept the law in the first place. They were masturbaters too. Jesus Christ is the only one who kept the whole law.....we blaspheme god as it says in romans, when we judge others for not being able to keep a law we never kept ourselves. It's easy to stand back as a married adult and condemn a 13 year who has raging hormones and no sex partner.. Just saying. I choose to be less judgmental.
Last edited by TrueIntent on November 9th, 2016, 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TrueIntent
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

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TrueIntent wrote:
braingrunt wrote:And if he had, what exactly would that show?
That usually the most judgmental ones never kept the law in the first place. They were masturbaters too. Jesus Christ is the only one who kept the whole law.....we blaspheme god as it says in Romans, when we judge others for not being able to keep a law we never kept ourselves. It's easy to stand back as a married adult and condemn a 13 year who has raging hormones and no sex partner.. Just saying. I choose to be less judgmental.

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TrueIntent
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

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Romans chapter 2

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by freedomforall »

Obrien wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Fiannan wrote:
Rachael wrote::ymhug: O' you know I'm self absorbed sometimes and think it's all about me sometimes. That's probably worse-er than "M", being ASSuming.

So "Chin up" Mormon Kid, there are worse species of humanity than you. You seem like a wonderful person.
Don't you think the best way to get someone not to do something is to tell them that what they are doing is next to Murder? =)) =)) =))
James 2:10,11
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

So you see, that to be free of sin is to not sin at all...to keep all of the commandments all of the time. By breaking one commandment, we are guilty of breaking all commandments. This is why we need a Savior in the first place. All it takes is one(1) sin to keep us out of God's presence. For the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

Doctrine and Covenants 1:31
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance; See also: Alma 45:16
FFA - I am sure you are well intentioned, but this ^^^ is twisting the intent of the scripture. You write 7 sentences, several of them quotes from scripture, telling the kid he is guilty of breaking the entire law, and make 1 lukewarm statement about the need of a Saviour. You never aver that the Saviour CAN to cleanse everyone from ANY sin. Your emphasis is all wrong for a born again Christ follower.

Can you please point me to the commandment that says "Thou shalt not masturbate"?

Because you are at a different stage of life than a 13 year old, perhaps this particular proclivity is not one you struggle with. A younger man may. To tell him he is guilty of breaking the entire law is extreme. Remind him to repent, rather than condemning him.
Can you please point me to the sentence that says "I, freedomforall, condemn you to hell?"
Reaching for words I have not said is not cool or accurate, Obrien. Is scripture not something you rely on for direction, knowledge or spiritual growth? Some people don't realize the gravity of what sin does to people, how they justify. allow, endorse, condone and even insinuate that masturbation is okay. Could you even imagine Jesus hiding someplace in order to release himself because there is no direct wording in scripture that says "thou shalt not masturbate?" Put a different way, if we're to follow Jesus, then we must do all in our power to live a life free of sin. So obviously, and emphatically, masturbation is a sin. Had our Savior did that, we'd all be going to hell. So you think about this fact, Obrien. People condemn themselves by justifying sin or telling others that masturbation is NORMAL.
Splitting hairs seems to be a practice that many Mormons use to justify sin. I get that!

Here, check this out and then suggest that what I say has no bearing:

Romans 12:9
9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Alma 13:12
12 Now they, after being sanctified by the Holy Ghost, having their garments made white, being pure and spotless before God, could not look upon sin save it were with abhorrence; and there were many, exceedingly great many, who were made pure and entered into the rest of the Lord their God.

Now comes the decision for Mormons to choose either striving to be pure and spotless and to enter into the rest of the Lord... or justifying sin thus condemning themselves.

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TrueIntent
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by TrueIntent »

freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Fiannan wrote:
Don't you think the best way to get someone not to do something is to tell them that what they are doing is next to Murder? =)) =)) =))
James 2:10,11
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

So you see, that to be free of sin is to not sin at all...to keep all of the commandments all of the time. By breaking one commandment, we are guilty of breaking all commandments. This is why we need a Savior in the first place. All it takes is one(1) sin to keep us out of God's presence. For the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

Doctrine and Covenants 1:31
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance; See also: Alma 45:16
FFA - I am sure you are well intentioned, but this ^^^ is twisting the intent of the scripture. You write 7 sentences, several of them quotes from scripture, telling the kid he is guilty of breaking the entire law, and make 1 lukewarm statement about the need of a Saviour. You never aver that the Saviour CAN to cleanse everyone from ANY sin. Your emphasis is all wrong for a born again Christ follower.

Can you please point me to the commandment that says "Thou shalt not masturbate"?

Because you are at a different stage of life than a 13 year old, perhaps this particular proclivity is not one you struggle with. A younger man may. To tell him he is guilty of breaking the entire law is extreme. Remind him to repent, rather than condemning him.
Can you please point me to the sentence that says "I, freedomforall, condemn you to hell?"
Reaching for words I have not said is not cool or accurate, Obrien. Is scripture not something you rely on for direction, knowledge or spiritual growth? Some people don't realize the gravity of what sin does to people, how they justify. allow, endorse, condone and even insinuate that masturbation is okay. Could you even imagine Jesus hiding someplace in order to release himself because there is no direct wording in scripture that says "thou shalt not masturbate?" Put a different way, if we're to follow Jesus, then we must do all in our power to live a life free of sin. So obviously, and emphatically, masturbation is a sin. Had our Savior did that, we'd all be going to hell. So you think about this fact, Obrien. People condemn themselves by justifying sin or telling others that masturbation is NORMAL.
Splitting hairs seems to be a practice that many Mormons use to justify sin. I get that!

Here, check this out and then suggest that what I say has no bearing:

Romans 12:9
9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Alma 13:12
12 Now they, after being sanctified by the Holy Ghost, having their garments made white, being pure and spotless before God, could not look upon sin save it were with abhorrence; and there were many, exceedingly great many, who were made pure and entered into the rest of the Lord their God.

Now comes the decision for Mormons to choose either striving to be pure and spotless and to enter into the rest of the Lord... or justifying sin thus condemning themselves.
Freedomforall, I also agree with O'Brien, you misinterpret scripture. The point the apostles were trying to make is that we're all sinners....were all imperfect. It's the bumper sticker" don't judge me because my sins are different than your sins". To be whole, or spotless, is to be free from our "nakedness" shame or guilt, I.e. Bitter fruits. To do that we must weed out Commandments of man, from actual Commandments of God, and then repent. We don't change ourselves....only Jesus Christ does. We cant fix our brokenness, only he can....but if we sincerely repent of things that aren't really broken, and Jesus Christ doesn't actually fix it because it's not broken...maybe we should evaluate the commandment, not the sincere repenter. I believe this very strongly, because I witnessed it in my life. I couldn't change myself, but Jesus Christ did. But he won't fix what's not broken, instead maybe we should repent of the false belief that we are broken and he will fix that (as it applies to following rules of men). It's beautiful!!!

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Obrien
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by Obrien »

TrueIntent wrote:Hey Mormon kid! What does the spirit tell you to do? Some bishop's may or may not keep it confidential...but just follow the spirit. HEy Obrien, I had the type of parent that would publicly make fun of me in front of the rest of the family if I had disclosed this type of thing to my parents. Soooooo...if you have loving parents sure. But just follow the spirit....it will tell you what to do.
Sorry to hear that true intent. I cannot imagine that kind of behavior, either from an adult when I was a child, or as an adult. That's psycho.

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TrueIntent
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by TrueIntent »

Obrien wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:Hey Mormon kid! What does the spirit tell you to do? Some bishop's may or may not keep it confidential...but just follow the spirit. HEy Obrien, I had the type of parent that would publicly make fun of me in front of the rest of the family if I had disclosed this type of thing to my parents. Soooooo...if you have loving parents sure. But just follow the spirit....it will tell you what to do.
Sorry to hear that true intent. I cannot imagine that kind of behavior, either from an adult when I was a child, or as an adult. That's psycho.
Thanks Obrien...it made me tough..and I still love my parents. I parent diffently because of it but hope my kids will forgive me for all my errors on day:-)

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Obrien
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by Obrien »

Obrien in red tonight
freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Fiannan wrote:
Don't you think the best way to get someone not to do something is to tell them that what they are doing is next to Murder? =)) =)) =))
James 2:10,11
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

So you see, that to be free of sin is to not sin at all...to keep all of the commandments all of the time. By breaking one commandment, we are guilty of breaking all commandments. This is why we need a Savior in the first place. All it takes is one(1) sin to keep us out of God's presence. For the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

Doctrine and Covenants 1:31
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance; See also: Alma 45:16
FFA - I am sure you are well intentioned, but this ^^^ is twisting the intent of the scripture. You write 7 sentences, several of them quotes from scripture, telling the kid he is guilty of breaking the entire law, and make 1 lukewarm statement about the need of a Saviour. You never aver that the Saviour CAN to cleanse everyone from ANY sin. Your emphasis is all wrong for a born again Christ follower.

Can you please point me to the commandment that says "Thou shalt not masturbate"?

Because you are at a different stage of life than a 13 year old, perhaps this particular proclivity is not one you struggle with. A younger man may. To tell him he is guilty of breaking the entire law is extreme. Remind him to repent, rather than condemning him.
Can you please point me to the sentence that says "I, freedomforall, condemn you to hell?"
No, I cannot point out that sentence, because neither of us said that.
Reaching for words I have not said is not cool or accurate, Obrien.
I agree, good thing I never did that. Whew.
Is scripture not something you rely on for direction, knowledge or spiritual growth?
yes.
Some people don't realize the gravity of what sin does to people, how they justify. allow, endorse, condone and even insinuate that masturbation is okay. Could you even imagine Jesus hiding someplace in order to release himself because there is no direct wording in scripture that says "thou shalt not masturbate?"
So, is this some ultra tricky way of confirming that there is no scriptural basis for your position on masturbation?
Put a different way, if we're to follow Jesus, then we must do all in our power to live a life free of sin. So obviously, and emphatically, masturbation is a sin.
Sorry, it's not so obvious to the clear headed among us. I think your supposition is clear to you since its your supposition. A bit circular, really...
Had our Savior did that, we'd all be going to hell. So you think about this fact, Obrien. People condemn themselves by justifying sin or telling others that masturbation is NORMAL.
Splitting hairs seems to be a practice that many Mormons use to justify sin. I get that!

Here, check this out and then suggest that what I say has no bearing:

Romans 12:9
9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Alma 13:12
12 Now they, after being sanctified by the Holy Ghost, having their garments made white, being pure and spotless before God, could not look upon sin save it were with abhorrence; and there were many, exceedingly great many, who were made pure and entered into the rest of the Lord their God.

Now comes the decision for Mormons to choose either striving to be pure and spotless and to enter into the rest of the Lord... or justifying sin thus condemning themselves.
(-| I'm a little sad that the yawn isn't in red, too.

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Obrien
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by Obrien »

TrueIntent wrote:
Obrien wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:Hey Mormon kid! What does the spirit tell you to do? Some bishop's may or may not keep it confidential...but just follow the spirit. HEy Obrien, I had the type of parent that would publicly make fun of me in front of the rest of the family if I had disclosed this type of thing to my parents. Soooooo...if you have loving parents sure. But just follow the spirit....it will tell you what to do.
Sorry to hear that true intent. I cannot imagine that kind of behavior, either from an adult when I was a child, or as an adult. That's psycho.
Thanks Obrien...it made me tough..and I still love my parents. I parent diffently because of it but hope my kids will forgive me for all my errors on day:-)
These are pretty common parenting hopes, in my experience. Somehow, kids turn out pretty ok, despite what we do to them as parents!

braingrunt
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by braingrunt »

@TrueIntent
So, to get you to clarify the real thrust of your point, I will descend into the ridiculous:
So, are you saying that a person who has had cause to repent cannot recommend repentance?

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by freedomforall »

TrueIntent wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
ajax wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
I believe this is poor advice.
It is true that there is a "little factory". However, as with all factories, the more you use them the more they produce.
Much better than shaming them and encouraging them to talk to adult strangers about their private erections and ejaculations and fretting over sin and worthiness of said issues.

And much better (imo) than likening it unto a soccer match, where as long as your winning, your fine. So 18 is cool as long as he scores 19? What if he ties or loses. Well then $hit! Back to square one. Instead, tell them they are not sinners or evil and are naturally growing and discovering and leave 'em be.

Worked charms for my adult boys.

(I fretted about being an evil SOB while growing up because of this and the church constantly hammering it)
I'm sorry Ajax, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Here's a question for you. Is masturbation a sin?
Now, before you answer that, think about what is going through a young man's mind when he is involved in this.
Is he lusting? There's your answer.

Babies do it in the womb! Little children do it...then become teenagers and adults and still do it. You tell me....is it a sin? And if it is....what is the consequence and what should be their punishment? Also, to the "lust" part, who on the face of the planet hasn't lusted??????? Cast the first stone. I think a better question is, Robinhood, have you ever masterbated?
Maybe Robinhood won a spelling bee. :)) :)) :))

The goal set before us is to abhor sin, abhor evil, to seek to be pure in heart and mind, to have virtue garnish our thoughts unceasingly. Those who are not are still in the natural man category. There is a difference between someone striving to be perfect and those who don't give it much thought. Those who list to follow the spirit, and those that do not. Those who lust and repent, make further mistakes, yet repent again and do their best...and those that say:

2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

BTW, babies and little children are not under the law, therefore, their activities as a point for immoral behavior is irrelevant. Good grief!

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by freedomforall »

Obrien wrote: (-| I'm a little sad that the yawn isn't in red, too.
Boo, hoo, hoo. If you only knew! You proved to me what I suspected all along. I proved my point using scripture, not justification. Not one thing you can ever say will have power enough to change that. You may as well quit while you're behind.

zionminded
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by zionminded »

ajax wrote:
zionminded wrote:
I would suggest getting a mental health counselor to help you,
Please don't.
So if somebody has cancer, you goto your bishop , and not seek your doctor ?

Sexual issues require somebody who is trained in those area. Most Bishops have zero training on sexual behaviors and comorbid conditions.

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BYULAWGUY
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by BYULAWGUY »

Serragon wrote:If you have truly forsaken the sin and confessed to the Lord, you don't need to confess to the Bishop.

If you are struggling and unable to forsake the sin, confession to the Bishop is probably necessary.
This is so wrong on so many levels.

To the kid that posted this, I have been a bishop. Most of the boys masturbate but most don't repent for it. Of all the sins that the youth confessed to me, I never once told their parents.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by zionminded »

BYULAWGUY wrote:
Serragon wrote:If you have truly forsaken the sin and confessed to the Lord, you don't need to confess to the Bishop.

If you are struggling and unable to forsake the sin, confession to the Bishop is probably necessary.
This is so wrong on so many levels.

To the kid that posted this, I have been a bishop. Most of the boys masturbate but most don't repent for it. Of all the sins that the youth confessed to me, I never once told their parents.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by zionminded »

BYULAWGUY wrote:
Serragon wrote:If you have truly forsaken the sin and confessed to the Lord, you don't need to confess to the Bishop.

If you are struggling and unable to forsake the sin, confession to the Bishop is probably necessary.
This is so wrong on so many levels.

To the kid that posted this, I have been a bishop. Most of the boys masturbate but most don't repent for it. Of all the sins that the youth confessed to me, I never once told their parents.
Repent for it?

Nobody is keeping score. Nobody but the person who is in guilt and shame cycles.

Real repentance is identifying the limiting belief or false belief and learning new and better ways of thinking and becoming like God.

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TrueIntent
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by TrueIntent »

braingrunt wrote:@TrueIntent
So, to get you to clarify the real thrust of your point, I will descend into the ridiculous:
So, are you saying that a person who has had cause to repent cannot recommend repentance?
Nope I am not saying that. I believe in repentance--- it's how we come to Christ. In fact, I would argue that many of the ways we are taught to "repent" in the church may keep us from coming to Christ. Sometimes we go beyond the mark. We should follow the spirit. The Pharisee held their children to standards and laws they were never able to keep themselves...instead of making it part of questions for a worthiness interview (and being hypocrites ourselves) we should just teach from the scriptures, focus on whether or not the behavior brings good fruits or bad fruits (which shame and guilt for something that infants do in the womb) is a bad fruit. Rather, is it an addictive behavior? We should teach that....let's not be hypocrites....seriously if we all had to put a scarlet letter on for the sins we committed and wore them around the sacrament building, we would be a lot more humble about whether or not the sin is as damning as we portray it. I actually believe we do more harm by casting judgements, rather than saying...oh probably 85 percent of the ward has touched themselves inapproprsitely or masturbated at some point....remember...if Christ is the perfect role model, if he is the way, sin, as defined under the law (rules of the Pharisees) is not always sin...look at Christ's apostles, and look at the Pharisees, the Pharisees were the religious elite who "claimed to follow the whole law" but inwardly we were vipers. Look at this way. What do you think Christ would say to this boy if he were to confess this sin to him? What would a Pharisee say to the boy? You have to come to know Christ to understand he wasn't as worried about the perceived sinners as he was about those who claimed to be the religious elite. It's the religious elite who never come to Christ because outwardly they keep the "commandments of men" but inwardly they were judgemental, liars, and hypocrites...they were the furthest from Christ, not the prostitutes, whores, and murders....The apostle Paul used to kill christians. Think about that.

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TrueIntent
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by TrueIntent »

freedomforall wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
ajax wrote:
Much better than shaming them and encouraging them to talk to adult strangers about their private erections and ejaculations and fretting over sin and worthiness of said issues.

And much better (imo) than likening it unto a soccer match, where as long as your winning, your fine. So 18 is cool as long as he scores 19? What if he ties or loses. Well then $hit! Back to square one. Instead, tell them they are not sinners or evil and are naturally growing and discovering and leave 'em be.

Worked charms for my adult boys.

(I fretted about being an evil SOB while growing up because of this and the church constantly hammering it)
I'm sorry Ajax, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Here's a question for you. Is masturbation a sin?
Now, before you answer that, think about what is going through a young man's mind when he is involved in this.
Is he lusting? There's your answer.

Babies do it in the womb! Little children do it...then become teenagers and adults and still do it. You tell me....is it a sin? And if it is....what is the consequence and what should be their punishment? Also, to the "lust" part, who on the face of the planet hasn't lusted??????? Cast the first stone. I think a better question is, Robinhood, have you ever masterbated?
Maybe Robinhood won a spelling bee. :)) :)) :))

The goal set before us is to abhor sin, abhor evil, to seek to be pure in heart and mind, to have virtue garnish our thoughts unceasingly. Those who are not are still in the natural man category. There is a difference between someone striving to be perfect and those who don't give it much thought. Those who list to follow the spirit, and those that do not. Those who lust and repent, make further mistakes, yet repent again and do their best...and those that say:

2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

BTW, babies and little children are not under the law, therefore, their activities as a point for immoral behavior is irrelevant. Good grief!


Right....u make my point. GOd will not justify in committing a little sin...which means we all must repent of our unworthiness...we all suck and fall short. Submitting the youth to these questions without acknowledgeing that the vast majority of members in the congregation have masturbated, and Lusted is hypocrisy,...we should reveal our own sins, and then show mercy, guidance, and love. No one gets saved without repenting and accessing grace....and alas, even murders and whores will be saved. The Savior said, u less we exceed the righteousness of the Pharisee we will not enter the kingdom of heaven. The Pharisee were the ones asking questions about whether or not someone masterbated, and they were the accusers who claimed that masturbation would keep someone out of Heaven.....NOT coming to Christ keeps you out of the kingdom of God.

Also, you view the scripture, "eat drink and be merry" through the lens of Mormonism as it was taught you. The savior ate, drank, and socialized with the sinners......the difference was the attitude...the attitude that I can sin and cause myself pain and others and then not change my heart. It's not the outward man, it's the inward man....this time we are in is a time to prepare to meet god....to prepare the inward man. Nothing outward saves us. So when we also judge others, we condemn others for things outwardly when we don't really know their heart.

Btw, the word virtue does not mean what we teach it to mean at church. We are obsessed with sex and control in Mormonism. Study the word virtue in the dictionary, and then study every passage of scripture that contains the word "virtue" across all books of scripture. Virtue is an all encompassing quality...like the word integrity.....it's associated with a state of "being" that has to do with MANY different God-like qualities...which can include chastity, but is in no way ONLY about chasity. Our church has grossly misrepresented the word. They have also done this with the word "pure" and "purity". If you will look at lds.org and do a search of the word "virture" you will find nearly every single talk equates it with SEXUAL PURITY. It is a distortion of the scriptures and meaning. We should be ashamed of how we have distorted the divine beauty of sex in our culture. Look up Chastity in the topical guide as well....we have included scriptures in this section that have absolutely nothing to do with what god defines as virtuous and pure and used them to equate all meaning with chastity. We are obsessed as a culture with controlling sex, and how we view others through outward "appearance". It's why Elizabeth smart made her recent comments in the press. The church tries to pretend they haven't taught this culture, however, the way we define scripture and teach from conference talks clearly says otherwise.
Last edited by TrueIntent on November 10th, 2016, 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TrueIntent
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by TrueIntent »

On a side note, it's not just the church...it's the members...if the members were in the right place in their heart...we would stand up and speak out against these things. But we don't....we get what we believe and what we ask for. It's sad.

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Obrien
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by Obrien »

freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote: (-| I'm a little sad that the yawn isn't in red, too.
Boo, hoo, hoo. If you only knew! You proved to me what I suspected all along. I proved my point using scripture, not justification. Not one thing you can ever say will have power enough to change that. You may as well quit while you're behind.
You didn't prove anything, FYI. You make a bunch of interpretations of scripture that agree with your interpretations of scripture. Never quit - you're a great source of inspiration for many, just not for me.

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Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by freedomforall »

Obrien wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote: (-| I'm a little sad that the yawn isn't in red, too.
Boo, hoo, hoo. If you only knew! You proved to me what I suspected all along. I proved my point using scripture, not justification. Not one thing you can ever say will have power enough to change that. You may as well quit while you're behind.
You didn't prove anything, FYI. You make a bunch of interpretations of scripture that agree with your interpretations of scripture. Never quit - you're a great source of inspiration for many, just not for me.
What I did prove, is that you will never, ever be able to justify sin.

Look up the word "abhor." Alma 13:12
What does it mean to shake at the appearance of sin? 2 Nephi 4:31
What does the word "forsake" mean? D&C 58:43
What does it mean to be humble and contrite? https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/broke ... g&letter=b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What does it mean to be lowly of heart? Matthew 11:29
What does it mean to overcome the natural man?

Mosiah 3:19
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

Now, what does "submissive" mean?
What does "meek" mean?
What does "patient" mean?
How about the word "submit?"
What does the word "pure" mean? Morm. 9:6 .
What does "spotless" mean? https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/spotl ... g&letter=s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't take my interpretation as fact. Research and then tell me what all these things mean for yourself.
After doing this, you will know what I am talking about.

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Obrien
Up, up and away.
Posts: 4951

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by Obrien »

freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote: (-| I'm a little sad that the yawn isn't in red, too.
Boo, hoo, hoo. If you only knew! You proved to me what I suspected all along. I proved my point using scripture, not justification. Not one thing you can ever say will have power enough to change that. You may as well quit while you're behind.
You didn't prove anything, FYI. You make a bunch of interpretations of scripture that agree with your interpretations of scripture. Never quit - you're a great source of inspiration for many, just not for me.
What I did prove, is that you will never, ever be able to justify sin.

Look up the word "abhor." Alma 13:12
What does it mean to shake at the appearance of sin? 2 Nephi 4:31
What does the word "forsake" mean? D&C 58:43
What does it mean to be humble and contrite? https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/broke ... g&letter=b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What does it mean to be lowly of heart? Matthew 11:29
What does it mean to overcome the natural man?

Mosiah 3:19
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

Now, what does "submissive" mean?
What does "meek" mean?
What does "patient" mean?
How about the word "submit?"
What does the word "pure" mean? Morm. 9:6 .
What does "spotless" mean? https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/spotl ... g&letter=s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't take my interpretation as fact. Research and then tell me what all these things mean for yourself.
After doing this, you will know what I am talking about.
Listen, I do not condone or encourage people to sin. The whole key is to become a saint by accepting the atonement of Christ. I choose to focus on that concept, and you choose to focus on genitalia.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by freedomforall »

TrueIntent wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
I'm sorry Ajax, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Here's a question for you. Is masturbation a sin?
Now, before you answer that, think about what is going through a young man's mind when he is involved in this.
Is he lusting? There's your answer.

Babies do it in the womb! Little children do it...then become teenagers and adults and still do it. You tell me....is it a sin? And if it is....what is the consequence and what should be their punishment? Also, to the "lust" part, who on the face of the planet hasn't lusted??????? Cast the first stone. I think a better question is, Robinhood, have you ever masterbated?
Maybe Robinhood won a spelling bee. :)) :)) :))

The goal set before us is to abhor sin, abhor evil, to seek to be pure in heart and mind, to have virtue garnish our thoughts unceasingly. Those who are not are still in the natural man category. There is a difference between someone striving to be perfect and those who don't give it much thought. Those who list to follow the spirit, and those that do not. Those who lust and repent, make further mistakes, yet repent again and do their best...and those that say:

2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

BTW, babies and little children are not under the law, therefore, their activities as a point for immoral behavior is irrelevant. Good grief!


Right....u make my point. GOd will not justify in committing a little sin...which means we all must repent of our unworthiness...we all suck and fall short. Submitting the youth to these questions without acknowledgeing that the vast majority of members in the congregation have masturbated, and Lusted is hypocrisy,...we should reveal our own sins, and then show mercy, guidance, and love. No one gets saved without repenting and accessing grace....and alas, even murders and whores will be saved. The Savior said, u less we exceed the righteousness of the Pharisee we will not enter the kingdom of heaven. The Pharisee were the ones asking questions about whether or not someone masterbated, and they were the accusers who claimed that masturbation would keep someone out of Heaven.....NOT coming to Christ keeps you out of the kingdom of God.

Also, you view the scripture, "eat drink and be merry" through the lens of Mormonism as it was taught you. Actually, I know what I know by reading the Book of Mormon 21 times so far. After all, aren't we told to feast upon the word? The savior ate, drank, and socialized with the sinners......the difference was the attitude...the attitude that I can sin and cause myself pain and others and then not change my heart. It's not the outward man, it's the inward man....this time we are in is a time to prepare to meet god....to prepare the inward man. Nothing outward saves us. So when we also judge others, we condemn others for things outwardly when we don't really know their heart.

Btw, the word virtue does not mean what we teach it to mean at church. We are obsessed with sex and control in Mormonism. Study the word virtue in the dictionary, and then study every passage of scripture that contains the word "virtue" across all books of scripture. Virtue is an all encompassing quality...like the word integrity.....it's associated with a state of "being" that has to do with MANY different God-like qualities...which can include chastity, but is in no way ONLY about chasity. Our church has grossly misrepresented the word. They have also done this with the word "pure" and "purity". If you will look at lds.org and do a search of the word "virture" you will find nearly every single talk equates it with SEXUAL PURITY. It is a distortion of the scriptures and meaning. We should be ashamed of how we have distorted the divine beauty of sex in our culture. Look up Chastity in the topical guide as well....we have included scriptures in this section that have absolutely nothing to do with what god defines as virtuous and pure and used them to equate all meaning with chastity. We are obsessed as a culture with controlling sex, and how we view others through outward "appearance". It's why Elizabeth smart made her recent comments in the press. The church tries to pretend they haven't taught this culture, however, the way we define scripture and teach from conference talks clearly says otherwise.
Virtue
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/virtu ... g&letter=v" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

D&C 121:45
45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.

Pure
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/virtu ... g&letter=v" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Matthew 5:8
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Eat, Drink and be merry TG Procrastination.

Isa. 22:13
13 And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.

This next verse is self explanatory as to what eat, drink and be merry refers to:

2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

How many members of the church try to justify committing a little sin and thinking God is okay with this?

Spotless
Here it looks like many words are synonymous with being as to what God expects...and that is to be perfect.

3 Nephi 12:48
48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.

Mormon 9:6
6 O then ye unbelieving, turn ye unto the Lord; cry mightily unto the Father in the name of Jesus, that perhaps ye may be found spotless, pure, fair, and white, having been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, at that great and last day.

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by freedomforall »

Obrien wrote:Listen, I do not condone or encourage people to sin. The whole key is to become a saint by accepting the atonement of Christ. I choose to focus on that concept, and you choose to focus on genitalia. Now you are reaching... :-?
The atonement is a great thing to focus on, true.
May a person focus on the atonement and expect salvation without repentance?
Is Christ okay with doing all the work while a person skates along with no real commitment?
Isn't by accepting the atonement one has to do all in their power to have it stay functional for them? Can one say they accept the atonement and still be happy to favor their favorite sin, whatever that may be...in general?
Honestly can one sit in a bar, get drunk and make a scene, watch half naked women dance around and still think they are saved because they accept the atonement, without repentance?

In other words, what does a person have to do, other than merely acknowledging the atonement, to cause the atonement to take affect in their life?

Here is a hint:
Doctrine and Covenants 1:31
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

I am not making up this stuff. It's in the book!

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1438

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Post by zionminded »

I need to chime in here a bit.

My profession is a mental health counselor. So I know a bit about this subject.

MOST masturbation (MB) habits are normal, for teens or adults. Nearly all men have or will, and nearly all women do. Nearly 40 percent or so of aging adults do it (over 70).

Having said that, SOME of the time there is a problem. It can be problematic if the behavior interferes with your life, your relationships or your health. But there are situations where the rhetoric around it is worse. For example, MB causes you to be gay or MB leads to more sexual exploration in unhealthy ways. Both are proven false, many times over.

The problem comes in our church where sexuality is so taboo. It comes when we simply DO NOT talk about it at all. We only talk about the bad things and not the healthy things. The "don't touch it" message is not helpful. It is important for people to beable explore their own sexuality (in a healthy way). Your bishop may or may not be objective, and he likely has ZERO idea to identify MB habits related to anxiety, depression, social issues, sexual problems, and a LONG list of things that they will not understand.

I'm NOT saying, people should create habits that replace normal behaviors. Comorbid problems such as compulsive porn use can cause a great deal of harm in relationships and more.

Additionally, there are some HUGE HUGE spiritual things sexual replacements (such as MB), and INCLUDING many hetronormative sexual behaviors will LIMIT your spiritual growth if you don't address them. (Big topic here on that one).

Please PM me if you have question offline, or please, find a mental heath counselor to help you. (Note your bishop can and should counsel you on your spiritual journey in the church, but not your sexual journey or questions anymore than your Bishop would address physical health issues like blood pressure or financial issues like retirement investment)

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