Why aren't you Chicken Little?

[Birchercaptain of 100]

The demise of our nation, and the "complete" take over of the Conspiracy has been "right around the corner" for the past at least 50 years. For the last 50 years the mantra has been it is too late, there is nothing that can be done (words of the Prophets to the contrary be damned), that maybe if more had done something 10 year ago it could have been averted, but now it is too late"

How could they all be right? Why are those that promote this idea right now although they have been wrong (and Benson said they were wrong) every time in the past?

Have we been close to losing it all in the past? Are we close now? Yes and yes, but just as in the past, we can advance the cause of freedom and defeat the absolutely pathetic and weak forces of the evil one.

I firmly believe that if just 10% of those that have given up were to work with the others in the fight to preserve freedom, we could make such huge strides as to put the Insiders plans back 30 years.

Right before President Hinckley died he said we could win if we did our duty. Do you think he was a liar? No? Prove it.

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

The demise of our nation, and the "complete" take over of the Conspiracy has been "right around the corner" for the past at least 50 years. For the last 50 years the mantra has been it is too late, there is nothing that can be done (words of the Prophets to the contrary be damned), that maybe if more had done something 10 year ago it could have been averted, but now it is too late"...

Right before President Hinckley died he said we could win if we did our duty. Do you think he was a liar? No? Prove it.

Let's start with a direct quote please -- what Pres Hinckley actually said...

(Not that I totally disagree with your premise -- my next 9/11 research paper is coming with expectation that the whore Babylon will be exposed and stopped, perhaps sooner than we think...)

[Birchercaptain of 100]

That war, so bitter, so intense, has never ceased. It is the war between truth and error, between agency and compulsion, between the followers of Christ and those who have denied Him... We are winning. We will continue to win if we will be faithful and true. We can do it. We must do it. We will do it.

[LittleLioncaptain of 100]

Right before President Hinckley died he said we could win if we did our duty. Do you think he was a liar? No? Prove it.

B, many of us have tried for many years. After "trying" and getting nowhere for so long you get tired and discouraged. After seeing so many lawsuits fail and trying to use the system as we should in a peaceful manner and getting nothing in return it makes you sick to your stomach, your heart and your soul. Many people I know will never stop trying, we just have shifted our focus in a different direction. To baptisms, to temple work, to preparations, to warning and teaching others that will listen. We have shifted away from wasting our time and money trying to fight satan in his own courts, in his own system, because it does not get anywhere.

Fighting for the constitution, fighting to change immoral and unconstitutional laws and everything this entails takes time and money, it takes lawyers and politicians to do any good at all. In these venues is where satan reigns supreme. The supreme court has thrown out case after case that the people have brought against the government. How can you win anything when satan holds the judgment seat?

If you know a way to beat satan at his own game of controlling the law, the law makers, the law givers and the law providers then open your mouth and speak it. Because many many people I know, rich and poor, old and young, intelligent and challenged have tried and failed. The only way you can do it is within the system unless you want to take it by force. Since the system is controlled by satan you have to find a way to go around, over, under or through satan first before your going to get anywhere. Satan has millions of followers in high places in this world now.

Is it impossible? Heavens no......But unless you can get the laws changed nothing is going to change. You can march in the streets, debate, have rallies, pass out literature, form groups, have seminars, build schools to teach the truth and any number of things that do not change the laws and it will not matter. Get control of the judgment seat or you will fail.

God be willing anything is possible...... We just have not hit upon the right combination of circumstances, the right frequency, said the right prayers, had enough faith, worked hard enough? I don't know.

LL

[Birchercaptain of 100]

The Prophets have told us how to do it. All we have to do is follow.

How to preserve freedom:
In General Conference, October 1987, President Benson, as President of the Church laid out these steps:
First and foremost, we must be righteous
Second, we must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers
Third, we must become involved in civic affairs to see that we are properly represented...
Fourth, we must make our influence felt by our vote, our letters, our teaching, and our advice.

Then in the General Conference of October 2003, Elder M Russell Ballard said:

We need to remember Edmund Burke statement: ˜The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. We need to raise our voices with other concerned citizens throughout the world in opposition to current trends.

Elder Christensen, in the February 2006 Ensign, emphasized this as well when he said,
What a sacred privilege and responsibility is ours to participate with other like-minded people to ensure that basic freedoms are preserved wherever we reside.

so step 5 in the equation is joining with others. President Benson said there was a "most effective" group of others to join with. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0qFYLakew0


Now before anyone argues about any of this, please go back and re read what the Prophets have said, and then ask are you right or are they?

[LittleLioncaptain of 100]

Now before anyone argues about any of this, please go back and re read what the Prophets have said, and then ask are you right or are they?

I don't want to argue B, I know the prophets are right. We have been doing everything the Prophets have asked including the four very good points on your list.

We have helped pay for and have seen two lawsuits get thrown out of the supreme court. These lawsuits were about illegal taxation and the right to petition our government for redress of grievances. There have been many other lawsuits brought before the supreme court by the people to make the government obey the laws of the land that have met the same fate. How many lawsuits has the JBS gotten as far as the supreme court? Only God can change anything now. Only with his help can we expect to succeed. He has not seen fit to help the people in the highest court in the land which is the ONLY way you are going to get the judgment seat back without force, by changing or getting the government to abide by the laws and the constitution of this land, it is the only way. Why has he not helped us? Only he knows. But we have tried and tried. Perhaps there are not enough righteous people in this land and not enough repentance has commenced? I don't know.

You are keen to tell us to read what the prophets have said about this situation and you are right to do so. But we have conundrum, on the one hand we have prophets telling us to never give up and keep trying, on the other hand we have prophets from Adam to Joseph Smith that have told us how it will all end, that Christ will be the one to subdue his enemies (satan) under his feet and that it is by his power and his power only that it will happen. Christ himself said this also. So, there we have it, a betwixed and betwingle. Prophets telling us to do something that the Prophets have also said only Christ will be able to do. A real Zions camp kind of problem if you ask me. Knowing full well that it will do no good but having to do it anyway to show your faith and zeal in fighting on the side of righteousness.

I will not argue with you B, I respect you and love you as a brother, contention is a bad thing and disperses the spirit, I know, I have succeeded in this many times. My experiences tell me that the law has to be obeyed by the people dispensing and protecting the law, it is not. Some laws have to be changed and some have to be destroyed, but most just have to be followed by the one in the judgment seat and all who serve him, and they are not. Perhaps it is just a simple thing of not enough people doing #1 on the list. I don't know.

LL

[Birchercaptain of 100]

lawsuits are not one of the 5 things listed by the Prophets.

[LittleLioncaptain of 100]

lawsuits are not one of the 5 things listed by the Prophets.

Yes, the rule of law is one of the principles of the constitution and the only way it will work for all. The rule of law has to be obeyed by all, including the government, or, again, this system will not work. It is part of being righteous to obey the rule of law and that is #1 on your list. The rule of law is the keystone and glue that holds all four of those things on that list together. We have unrighteous leaders in the highest levels of our leadership that don't obey the rule of law, including our own church members that are in the government, that's why nothing anyone does will work unless you get them to follow the rule of law. So that's what many people have tried to do.

They will sit in their ivory towers and laugh unless you use something that will force their hand. If Christ helps us it will have to be within the law and within the system, the other type of force is the sole domain of Christ himself. So go for the thing that is supposed to work, the law. If the law does not work you are screwed and you are a slave and your freedoms are gone as surely as you breath.

No law = no constitution = no freedom = very little agency. The law has to be #1 so everything else will work. This is the way it works in all kingdoms.
LL

[Birchercaptain of 100]

Courts, especially federal, do not = liberty or law right now. Right now the most effective is through the legislative branch. They can tell the currently all powerful courts to take a hike.

[LittleLioncaptain of 100]

Courts, especially federal, do not = liberty or law right now. Right now the most effective is through the legislative branch. They can tell the currently all powerful courts to take a hike.

No branch of government follows the rule of law. That is why we are in the position we are. Until the constitution and the rule of law is obeyed by all things will never change. Unless you are part of one of the several powerful lobbyists groups you will never even get the ear of any legislator.

Seems preaching the gospel then would be the highest priority....

yes, this is the conclusion we have come up with also Gman after over 40 years of doing everything on B's list.

[Birchercaptain of 100]

In General Conference, October 1987, President Benson, as President of the Church laid out these steps:
First and foremost, we must be righteous

Seems preaching the gospel then would be the highest priority....

Is that the only thing one needs to do to be righteous?

[Birchercaptain of 100]

Unless you are part of one of the several powerful lobbyists groups you will never even get the ear of any legislator.

Bunk!! I have, and hundreds of others across the nation meet regularly with their congressman and state legislators and are able to get them to do good, do 180 degree turns on issues etc.

This is my last post on this aspect. The Prophets have told us what to do, and that victory is ours as we follow their council. It is not that difficult to understand, it may be difficult to believe and or do, but not to understand.

[LittleLioncaptain of 100]

Bunk!! I have, and hundreds of others across the nation meet regularly with their congressman and state legislators and are able to get them to do good, do 180 degree turns on issues etc. This is my last post on this aspect. The Prophets have told us what to do, and that victory is ours as we follow their council. It is not that difficult to understand, it may be difficult to believe and or do, but not to understand.

You can get frustrated like the rest of us. Your right, it's very easy to understand. That's why every Mormon politician save a precious few have never helped anyone except themselves and the PTB. Bircher I am sorry but we have done everything on the list plus and nothing has ever changed, in fact it has gotten worse, much worse. You will never ever be able to get your congressman and state legislators to change what counts. Or, things would have changed a long long time ago. They will never go against the powers that be or they will be dead, just like all the other politicians that have seriously tried. I am sorry but your living in a fantasy world if you think you can get back to a righteous people by having tea parties with politicians that will never do anything to go against the PTB, they will never do anything risky.

I have a right to say what I am saying because we have tried for many years Bircher. You are not talking to someone that has never tried or never risked anything. Nothing will ever change that has anything to do with taking power away from the ones that have it now or making them obey the laws, nothing else matters as far as government is concerned. They will always let you change things that do not threaten their powers. Once they are threatened, people die.

LL

[Birchercaptain of 100]

I am dumb founded that you say you have tried with no success. When I apply those things (with some time to reap what I have sown) I have nothing but success.

I give my testimony that if we do what the Prophets have said and endure to the end in it, we will have our reward, and if not we will have our reward

[LittleLioncaptain of 100]

I give my testimony that if we do what the Prophets have said and endure to the end in it, we will have our reward, and if not we will have our reward

Agreed, and thank you for your testimony. I give my testimony that you can work hard, very hard, putting in the time, money and effort it takes in this world to do what you think is correct, using correct principles and things will not always go the way you want. In fact we have had very few successes in the years we have tried in this avenue. It is extremely frustrating. That's why we have shifted focus to baptisms, reactivation's, temple work, preparedness, teaching and planing and away from where we have had little success.

I fear for our children, brothers and sisters that will not heed the call.

LL

[SwissMrs&Pitchfirecaptain of 1,000]

Nobody said that we could win within the system. The prophets all know the prophecies of their predessesors, ergo that we will save it by being found in possesion of it all on our own. A second track approach. There will be found a refuge at a time when all else is fallen and lost, anarchy and chaos will reign everywhere else. A gulf will seperate the wicked and righteous. "They will come to us in much the same way, (but with bundles under their arms and we will have to go out to them to render aid and be saviors on Mount Zion)" they will not come to be converted, but to live where there is good government order, and more importantly the very cooperation that will redeem Zion and enable us, some of us, to go and rebuild the waste places (though they will come to partake of the fruits of industry, not the "socialistic" aspects of "communal" living as many have charged).

Search the prophecies and you will see it.

[Birchercaptain of 100]

Nobody said that we could win within the system.

I don't know about that, but I do know that Ezra Taft Benson (as well as the other more recent Prophets) defiantly told us what we need to do within the system.

[Birchercaptain of 100]

Swiss, I did a google search for that quote as well as a gospelink search and came up with nothing for both of them.

[LittleLioncaptain of 100]

Nobody said that we could win within the system.

I agree that we will not win within the system without massive help from the Lord, but we still have to try as the spirit dictates. The fruits of industry where justice and the rule of law will prevail and all will abide it, so all can be prosperous. Yes, this will draw all honest hard working people that the Lord spares.

LL

[Rosabellacaptain of 1,000]

I have been following this tread a little bit. I just wanted to say this. All things can feel lost, especially when you have worked so hard to try to warn people. But at the height of the battle is not the time to say it is over or lost. It is the time to step up the work. I am finding online many many people just waking up to what is happening regarding the New World Order. Many people that have heard this idea before and brushed it off as not probable are now seeing the reality of it. I see a great change happening. I feel we will see a great polarization and an influx coming to this understanding and many into the Church of these patriots that have become awakened to the understanding of the new world order.

We are seeing the fruits of what we have been standing up against emerging right before our eyes. But many are seeing it too and are awakening to their awful situation. I am seeing it in the Church and out of it. Now is a great time to harvest.

If we were to ever fight NOW is the time. None of the prophets gave up until the Lord told them to. We have not been told to cease our work and pull from the world. So I feel we need to keep standing for truth, be examples and teachers of it as many are becoming awaken. The wicked will not awake, but there are many righteous still in America. I talk every day with Christians and those that are just starting to see the whole picture. Now is the time for our Church members that are awake to shine as examples to the newly awakened. We can not be a defeatist now. This is the time to be the strongest we ever have been and follow all the counsels we have been told to do.

My major area of standing up for truth has been over the religious side of the conspiracy. It has taken over the world; I have not been able to stop it. (none of us can individually) but we can help in are area of influence. But that is not the sole purpose, we are not told to win every battle or even most we are told to keep going, keep proclaiming the truth. We are to save souls along with standing up for our freedoms to keep saving souls. We are to push back the evil tides politically and spiritually in all ways we can. Harvesting the elect of God is vital and educating and standing up for our Faith ( in its true form) is vital, and standing up for the constitution is vital. We are told to do all these things. To be a light unto the world.

As Bircher said:

“First and foremost, we must be righteous

Second, we must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers

Third, we must become involved in civic affairs to see that we are properly represented...

Fourth, we must make our influence felt by our vote, our letters, our teaching, and our advice.

I would add continually testify of Christ and being a light unto the world spiritually and politically. For they are both being attacked by Lucifer’s plan. We need to stand up and testify of Christ for the world is redefining Christ into Lucifer. We must stand up for the constitution because they are lying saying it is not an inspired document but evil and bad, just as all religions that believe in God (the way we) do are evil and bad. They are attacking all monotheistic religions and the core beliefs in true liberty.

I understand the feeling of what more can I do. I fear we lose sight of the big picture when we look at the battle and not the war. Battles are being won on both sides. But the war is not over it is just at a height level of intensity that seems overwhelming. But that is when we must put on the whole armor of God and continue the work as we have been told to do and endure to the end. The only one that wants any of us to give up is the adversary. The Lord has told us to keep up this work. We are to take it even online. That is what I am doing. I am trying to bear my testimony online line to even non LDS groups. Many are listening to at least parts.

I suggest reading what LDS conservative posted called “Finding Peace and Happiness In a Troubled World”. Some of us are just ahead of the train, but we do not know how the Lord is truly driving the train. I feel we are in for some wonderful surprises that are just powerful as the ones that are bad we are seeing and fearing.

[SwissMrs&Pitchfirecaptain of 1,000]

Try this site for that and a few more good quotes:
http://www.scottmoravec.com/Religion/storage.htm

Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 5:10-11

"Lay up your stores, and take your silks and fine things, and exchange them for grain and such things as you need, and the time will come when we will be obliged to depend upon our own resources; for the time is not far distant when the curtain will be dropped between us and the Untied Staes. When that time comes, brethern and sisters, you will wish you had commenced sooner to make your own clothing. I tell you, God requires us to go into home manufacture; and, prolong it as much as you like, you have got to do it.

Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 4:106

"There will be millions on millions that will come much in the same way [referring to the arrival of the second of the handcart companies to arrive in 1856] , only they will not have handcarts, for they will take their bundles under their arms, and their children on their backs, and under their arms, and flee; and Zion’s people will have to send out relief to them, for they will come when the judgments come on the nations."

Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 4:336-339

". . .after your testimony cometh the testimony cometh the testimony of earthquakes, of famine, of fire and of desolation: it shall come unto the world, and it shall begin at my house, saith the Lord, that is, with that portion who rebel against Him in the midst of his house. . .These calamities are coming. . .

Brethren and sisters, this is the time in which to prepare. If you are not saved temporally in these Valleys, I shall not be. If you will take a course to bring distress on this people, we shall have to be distressed. . .

Brethren, go and build your storehouses before your grain is harvested, and lay it up, and let us never cease until we have got a seven years’ supply. You may think that we shall not see times in which we shall need it. Do you not comprehend how comfortable it will be for us to know that we have grain enough to last us seven years?. . .

Will you be slack, brethren, and let the evil come upon us, when we forewarn you of the future events that are coming;. . .We are telling of what the prophets have said--of what the Lord has said to Joseph. Wake up, now, wake up, O Israel, and lay up your grain and your stores. I tell you that there is trouble coming upon the world. . .

Is it so in the united States? It is. They have got to eat that dish; and when famine, pestilence, and starvation come upon us in a small degree, it will increase upon them fourfold, packed down and running over, and they cannot help it. . . We will lay up the grain for seven years, and thousands of them will worship us for a little johnny cake."

Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 5:163-164

"This is part of our religion--to lay up stores and provide for ourselves and for the surrounding country; for the day is near when they will come by thousands and by millions, with their fineries, to get a little bread. That time is right by our door. . .

Say I, wake up, ye Saints of Zion, while it is called today, lest trouble and sorrow come upon you, as a thief in the night.

Suppose it is not coming, will it hurt you to lay up the products of the earth for seven years? Will it hurt you, if you have your guns, swords, and spears in good condition, according to the law of the United States?"

"When the people have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men, and extending the hand of fellowship to the oppressed of all nations. This is part of the program, and as long as we do what is right and fear God, he will help us and stand by us under all circumstances."
http://books.google.com/books?id=8VUoAA ... &ct=result

[Birchercaptain of 100]

OK Swiss, I believe that both the quotes I gave and the quotes you gave came from Prophets of God.

I see no contradiction, not one.

[LittleLioncaptain of 100]

I have been following this tread a little bit. I just wanted to say this. All things can feel lost, especially when you have worked so hard to try to warn people. But at the height of the battle is not the time to say it is over or lost. It is the time to step up the work. But that is when we must put on the whole armor of God and continue the work as we have been told to do and endure to the end. The only one that wants any of us to give up is the adversary. The Lord has told us to keep up this work. We are to take it even online. That is what I am doing. I am trying to bear my testimony online line to even non LDS groups. Many are listening to at least parts.

Bella, I love reading your posts so very much. The lord has blessed you. I on the other hand am very coarse and rough compared to your smooth obvious spirit touched writings. Thank you for time and efforts publicly. Because of you I have talked with and obtained literature from Constance E. Cumbey, a wonderful person.

I am confused just a bit though. Nobody in this thread has talked about giving up or that it is over or lost. Just that some are shifting focus. Big difference. We have been into the depths of satans machine and come out scarred and distraught, but stronger in many ways. It is very hard to keep going the same direction for so long with no discernible movement forward. So we have decided to step sideways, just a hair in our overall effect, and then continue forward . We have found the going much better with much fruit.

We have made much headway against the wind by taking a little hint from the sailors of the world, tacking and beating using the wind instead of fighting against it. We find that this will enable us to sail as close to the wind as possible, or close hauled, and still maintain forward motion. Much less beating our head against the wall, instead we beat the sails.

LL

[Birchercaptain of 100]

Please to not step aside of the tactics laid out by the Prophets (Benson, Ballard & Christianson). Blessings await for those who follow them, destruction for those who do not.

[LittleLioncaptain of 100]

Please to not step aside of the tactics laid out by the Prophets (Benson, Ballard & Christianson). Blessings await for those who follow them, destruction for those who do not.

Thank you for the great advice Mr B, but I assure you we have not stepped aside of those. There are different ways you can accomplish the same goals, as many different ways as there are people on this earth. Yes, there is only one path that leads to the tree of life, but nobody travels that road the same way.

LL

[Birchercaptain of 100]

Not to be nit picky, but there is only one way to exaltation.

I hope in regards to protecting freedom we will all keep to all of the 5 steps laid out by the Prophets of God.

[LittleLioncaptain of 100]

Not to be nit picky, but there is only one way to exaltation.

You just proved my point by saying the exact thing I did, just in a different way.

[Birchercaptain of 100]

You are right LL. I am a little distracted right now, (My wife is a week over due for baby #4) and I have been making a ton of mistakes like that over the past couple of days.

Thanks for understanding.

[LittleLioncaptain of 100]

You are right LL. I am a little distracted right now, (My wife is a week over due for baby #4) and I have been making a ton of mistakes like that over the past couple of days.

Thanks for understanding.

Oh wow. I understand completely, we have 10 kids. Overdue is not great. I'm sure everything will be fine. Thanks for everything you bring to this forum.

LL

[Rosabellacaptain of 1,000]

Bella, I love reading your posts so very much. The lord has blessed you. I on the other hand am very coarse and rough compared to your smooth obvious spirit touched writings. Thank you for time and efforts publicly. Because of you I have talked with and obtained literature from Constance E. Cumbey, a wonderful person.

I am confused just a bit though. Nobody in this thread has talked about giving up or that it is over or lost. Just that some are shifting focus. Big difference. We have been into the depths of satans machine and come out scarred and distraught, but stronger in many ways. It is very hard to keep going the same direction for so long with no discernible movement forward. So we have decided to step sideways, just a hair in our overall effect, and then continue forward . We have found the going much better with much fruit.

We have made much headway against the wind by taking a little hint from the sailors of the world, tacking and beating using the wind instead of fighting against it. We find that this will enable us to sail as close to the wind as possible, or close hauled, and still maintain forward motion. Much less beating our head against the wall, instead we beat the sails.

LL

LittleLion

You bring much to the table and I would not describe your writings as coarse and rough.

Thank you for your overly kind words.

Sorry for the confusion, I really was just giving a pep talk. It really was not directed at anyone particular just a general keep up the good work no matter how hard it may seem. My comments were mostly inspired by talking with people that are fearful at this time, or have thought about given up because they feel things are too far gone. Like I said I just was following the thread a little bit, and put in my thoughts.

We all must follow our promptings for what part we are to play. I strongly believe we all have our own missions that we are to do. They can change with time. As long as we are following promptings and not disillusionment and fear we need to follow what we are being told to do. We need to follow the Spirit and go where He says to go. I stand up for the constitution, but the area I have been told to direct most of my focus is proclaiming Christ over his greatest impostor now appearing in the world as an angel of light. We all have our part we play. I feel that we are still to continue standing up for the constitution stronger then ever, for without it we will not have freedom of religion. I am well aware what religion is planned to be the mandatory replacement and I want no part of it.

I am so happy you contacted Constance. She is a very amazing woman. You will have to let me know what you think of her data. When you read her data and if you read Warren Smith’s Reinventing Jesus Christ, you get a really good picture of the whole conspiracy. There are some other books I could suggest but these are free right now. Constance has truly hampered the adversary’s plans. She has wielded a very strong blow when she exposed these works of darkness that were appearing as light. She has saved many from the evil clutches of the new age movement. She will be greatly blessed for her strength and devotion.

I hope this post is more clear than my last one