Your home for discussing politics, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and the principles of liberty.
Bircher wrote:The demise of our nation, and the "complete" take over of the Conspiracy has been "right around the corner" for the past at least 50 years. For the last 50 years the mantra has been it is too late, there is nothing that can be done (words of the Prophets to the contrary be damned), that maybe if more had done something 10 year ago it could have been averted, but now it is too late"...
Right before President Hinckley died he said we could win if we did our duty. Do you think he was a liar? No? Prove it.
That war, so bitter, so intense, has never ceased. It is the war between truth and error, between agency and compulsion, between the followers of Christ and those who have denied Him... We are winning. We will continue to win if we will be faithful and true. We can do it. We must do it. We will do it.
B, many of us have tried for many years. After "trying" and getting nowhere for so long you get tired and discouraged. After seeing so many lawsuits fail and trying to use the system as we should in a peaceful manner and getting nothing in return it makes you sick to your stomach, your heart and your soul. Many people I know will never stop trying, we just have shifted our focus in a different direction. To baptisms, to temple work, to preparations, to warning and teaching others that will listen. We have shifted away from wasting our time and money trying to fight satan in his own courts, in his own system, because it does not get anywhere.Bircher wrote:Right before President Hinckley died he said we could win if we did our duty. Do you think he was a liar? No? Prove it.
I don't want to argue B, I know the prophets are right. We have been doing everything the Prophets have asked including the four very good points on your list.Bircher wrote:Now before anyone argues about any of this, please go back and re read what the Prophets have said, and then ask are you right or are they?
Yes, the rule of law is one of the principles of the constitution and the only way it will work for all. The rule of law has to be obeyed by all, including the government, or, again, this system will not work. It is part of being righteous to obey the rule of law and that is #1 on your list. The rule of law is the keystone and glue that holds all four of those things on that list together. We have unrighteous leaders in the highest levels of our leadership that don't obey the rule of law, including our own church members that are in the government, that's why nothing anyone does will work unless you get them to follow the rule of law. So that's what many people have tried to do.Bircher wrote:lawsuits are not one of the 5 things listed by the Prophets.
No branch of government follows the rule of law. That is why we are in the position we are. Until the constitution and the rule of law is obeyed by all things will never change. Unless you are part of one of the several powerful lobbyists groups you will never even get the ear of any legislator.Bircher wrote:Courts, especially federal, do not = liberty or law right now. Right now the most effective is through the legislative branch. They can tell the currently all powerful courts to take a hike.
yes, this is the conclusion we have come up with also Gman after over 40 years of doing everything on B's list.Gman007 wrote:Seems preaching the gospel then would be the highest priority....
Gman007 wrote:In General Conference, October 1987, President Benson, as President of the Church laid out these steps:
First and foremost, we must be righteous
Seems preaching the gospel then would be the highest priority....
LittleLion wrote: Unless you are part of one of the several powerful lobbyists groups you will never even get the ear of any legislator.
You can get frustrated like the rest of us. Your right, it's very easy to understand. That's why every Mormon politician save a precious few have never helped anyone except themselves and the PTB. Bircher I am sorry but we have done everything on the list plus and nothing has ever changed, in fact it has gotten worse, much worse. You will never ever be able to get your congressman and state legislators to change what counts. Or, things would have changed a long long time ago. They will never go against the powers that be or they will be dead, just like all the other politicians that have seriously tried. I am sorry but your living in a fantasy world if you think you can get back to a righteous people by having tea parties with politicians that will never do anything to go against the PTB, they will never do anything risky.Bircher wrote:Bunk!! I have, and hundreds of others across the nation meet regularly with their congressman and state legislators and are able to get them to do good, do 180 degree turns on issues etc. This is my last post on this aspect. The Prophets have told us what to do, and that victory is ours as we follow their council. It is not that difficult to understand, it may be difficult to believe and or do, but not to understand.
Agreed, and thank you for your testimony. I give my testimony that you can work hard, very hard, putting in the time, money and effort it takes in this world to do what you think is correct, using correct principles and things will not always go the way you want. In fact we have had very few successes in the years we have tried in this avenue. It is extremely frustrating. That's why we have shifted focus to baptisms, reactivation's, temple work, preparedness, teaching and planing and away from where we have had little success.Bircher wrote:I give my testimony that if we do what the Prophets have said and endure to the end in it, we will have our reward, and if not we will have our reward
SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:Nobody said that we could win within the system.
I agree that we will not win within the system without massive help from the Lord, but we still have to try as the spirit dictates. The fruits of industry where justice and the rule of law will prevail and all will abide it, so all can be prosperous. Yes, this will draw all honest hard working people that the Lord spares.SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:Nobody said that we could win within the system.
Bella, I love reading your posts so very much. The lord has blessed you. I on the other hand am very coarse and rough compared to your smooth obvious spirit touched writings. Thank you for time and efforts publicly. Because of you I have talked with and obtained literature from Constance E. Cumbey, a wonderful person.Bella wrote:I have been following this tread a little bit. I just wanted to say this. All things can feel lost, especially when you have worked so hard to try to warn people. But at the height of the battle is not the time to say it is over or lost. It is the time to step up the work. But that is when we must put on the whole armor of God and continue the work as we have been told to do and endure to the end. The only one that wants any of us to give up is the adversary. The Lord has told us to keep up this work. We are to take it even online. That is what I am doing. I am trying to bear my testimony online line to even non LDS groups. Many are listening to at least parts.
Thank you for the great advice Mr B, but I assure you we have not stepped aside of those. There are different ways you can accomplish the same goals, as many different ways as there are people on this earth. Yes, there is only one path that leads to the tree of life, but nobody travels that road the same way.Bircher wrote:Please to not step aside of the tactics laid out by the Prophets (Benson, Ballard & Christianson). Blessings await for those who follow them, destruction for those who do not.
You just proved my point by saying the exact thing I did, just in a different way.Bircher wrote:Not to be nit picky, but there is only one way to exaltation.
Oh wow. I understand completely, we have 10 kids. Overdue is not great. I'm sure everything will be fine. Thanks for everything you bring to this forum.Bircher wrote:You are right LL. I am a little distracted right now, (My wife is a week over due for baby #4) and I have been making a ton of mistakes like that over the past couple of days.
Thanks for understanding.
Bella, I love reading your posts so very much. The lord has blessed you. I on the other hand am very coarse and rough compared to your smooth obvious spirit touched writings. Thank you for time and efforts publicly. Because of you I have talked with and obtained literature from Constance E. Cumbey, a wonderful person.
I am confused just a bit though. Nobody in this thread has talked about giving up or that it is over or lost. Just that some are shifting focus. Big difference. We have been into the depths of satans machine and come out scarred and distraught, but stronger in many ways. It is very hard to keep going the same direction for so long with no discernible movement forward. So we have decided to step sideways, just a hair in our overall effect, and then continue forward . We have found the going much better with much fruit.
We have made much headway against the wind by taking a little hint from the sailors of the world, tacking and beating using the wind instead of fighting against it. We find that this will enable us to sail as close to the wind as possible, or close hauled, and still maintain forward motion. Much less beating our head against the wall, instead we beat the sails.
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