Car Needed

Do you have something to sell/giveaway? A Business you want to let us know about? Found any good deals? Post them here.
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shadow
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Re: Car Needed

Post by shadow »

Jezebel wrote: There's never any guarantee that a person isn't going to take advantage of you or use your gifts in the way you intended. God gives to us freely and expects us to do the same if we want to learn to be like him. You can take your experiences and allow them to harden your heart, making you more cynical and wary, or you can allow them to teach you to let go of others choices, thus becoming more like Father. It sounds like you've chosen to allow yours to harden you.
Not hardened at all, I just do things differently, more effectively. I think that's "more like Father". Enabling isn't helping. In fact, enabling others is something I believe one can be held somewhat accountable for. Accusing me of being cynical and hard hearted based on my comments would be a bit short sighted. While I may not give cars away like I used to, I do other things instead. Things that I actually feel better about.

And pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is actually gospel truth. It isn't something to take harshly. God told Adam and Eve that it was by the sweat of their brows that they should eat. How's that for Fatherly?

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A Random Phrase
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Re: Car Needed

Post by A Random Phrase »

Good grief, shadow! I feel for you. When I was given a car, I was grateful every day I drove it. It got totaled in an accident not long ago, and I mourned the loss of a good friend.
shadow wrote:I ask because I've had bad experiences with most of the half dozen or so cars I've given away to people in need. 2 out of all of them were helpful to the person. After I gave away my sweet 99 suburban (I loved that car ;) ) to a family I knew and who I knew needed it I came away disappointed yet again after they quickly sold it, went on vacation, then bought a van with a high interest loan (their credit sucked). Last year I also gave away a car to a truly needy family who went straight to the bank and took out a loan on it for high book value. Again, bad credit equals high interest. I guess I can pick it up for a good price soon once it's repo'd. That was an 04 Buick I bought from the original owners who were too old to drive anymore. Years ago I gave a car to a struggling young family and the husband quickly sold it and quit his job until the money ran out. Giving cars isn't always the best thing for people who are in need. If your friend can't even pay registration and insurance then maybe a car isn't what she needs. Can she work? Maybe Jared could help her get started with an Amazon company? As for me, I'm pretty much done giving away cars. Cars are expensive to own with gas and maintenance etc. so if they can't spend the few hundred dollars on a cheap car (check out KSL) then they probably can't afford to keep it anyway. Exclusions apply of course, that's why I was wondering about her situation.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Rose Garden »

shadow wrote:
Jezebel wrote: There's never any guarantee that a person isn't going to take advantage of you or use your gifts in the way you intended. God gives to us freely and expects us to do the same if we want to learn to be like him. You can take your experiences and allow them to harden your heart, making you more cynical and wary, or you can allow them to teach you to let go of others choices, thus becoming more like Father. It sounds like you've chosen to allow yours to harden you.
Not hardened at all, I just do things differently, more effectively. I think that's "more like Father". Enabling isn't helping. In fact, enabling others is something I believe one can be held somewhat accountable for. Accusing me of being cynical and hard hearted based on my comments would be a bit short sighted. While I may not give cars away like I used to, I do other things instead. Things that I actually feel better about.

And pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is actually gospel truth. It isn't something to take harshly. God told Adam and Eve that it was by the sweat of their brows that they should eat. How's that for Fatherly?
Just making an observation, not accusation. What the condition of your heart is is between you and God.

However, I do not believe that we will be held accountable for enabling in the way you believe. Father gives breath to all of us, even those who commit the most atrocious sins, murderers, rapists, child molesters. The man committing torturous acts of sexual abuse on an innocent child is being given the power to do so by God. As I said, if we are to be like him, we must give freely as he does, even if people take our gifts and use them for ill as many do with God's gifts.

I am not saying that pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is wrong. However, it is wrong to insist others do so and use that as an excuse not to give. It is specifically condemned in the Book of Mormon to say that the beggar has brought his troubles upon himself. I would say that is basically what you are doing if you think someone can and should pull themselves up by their bootstraps with no help from you.

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Jason
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Jason »

Jezebel wrote:
shadow wrote:
Jezebel wrote: There's never any guarantee that a person isn't going to take advantage of you or use your gifts in the way you intended. God gives to us freely and expects us to do the same if we want to learn to be like him. You can take your experiences and allow them to harden your heart, making you more cynical and wary, or you can allow them to teach you to let go of others choices, thus becoming more like Father. It sounds like you've chosen to allow yours to harden you.
Not hardened at all, I just do things differently, more effectively. I think that's "more like Father". Enabling isn't helping. In fact, enabling others is something I believe one can be held somewhat accountable for. Accusing me of being cynical and hard hearted based on my comments would be a bit short sighted. While I may not give cars away like I used to, I do other things instead. Things that I actually feel better about.

And pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is actually gospel truth. It isn't something to take harshly. God told Adam and Eve that it was by the sweat of their brows that they should eat. How's that for Fatherly?
Just making an observation, not accusation. What the condition of your heart is is between you and God.

However, I do not believe that we will be held accountable for enabling in the way you believe. Father gives breath to all of us, even those who commit the most atrocious sins, murderers, rapists, child molesters. The man committing torturous acts of sexual abuse on an innocent child is being given the power to do so by God. As I said, if we are to be like him, we must give freely as he does, even if people take our gifts and use them for ill as many do with God's gifts.

I am not saying that pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is wrong. However, it is wrong to insist others do so and use that as an excuse not to give. It is specifically condemned in the Book of Mormon to say that the beggar has brought his troubles upon himself. I would say that is basically what you are doing if you think someone can and should pull themselves up by their bootstraps with no help from you.
Its after all they can do....and from many personal experiences there's folks out there that make a living out of handouts. The ones that show up every time a new bishop is called to see how much they can get out of him before he gets savvy. Always a sob story. Never a result of their decisions.

The trick is to teach fishing rather than always providing fish. And the challenge is getting folks to fish rather than begging for fish. Church welfare system is designed to get folks fishing while keeping them fed in the process. One we would do well to pattern our efforts after.

The gospel is all about freedom and independence...living on handouts is not freedom and independence (in whatever form that might be).

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Rose Garden
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Rose Garden »

Jason wrote:
Jezebel wrote:
shadow wrote:
Jezebel wrote: There's never any guarantee that a person isn't going to take advantage of you or use your gifts in the way you intended. God gives to us freely and expects us to do the same if we want to learn to be like him. You can take your experiences and allow them to harden your heart, making you more cynical and wary, or you can allow them to teach you to let go of others choices, thus becoming more like Father. It sounds like you've chosen to allow yours to harden you.
Not hardened at all, I just do things differently, more effectively. I think that's "more like Father". Enabling isn't helping. In fact, enabling others is something I believe one can be held somewhat accountable for. Accusing me of being cynical and hard hearted based on my comments would be a bit short sighted. While I may not give cars away like I used to, I do other things instead. Things that I actually feel better about.

And pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is actually gospel truth. It isn't something to take harshly. God told Adam and Eve that it was by the sweat of their brows that they should eat. How's that for Fatherly?
Just making an observation, not accusation. What the condition of your heart is is between you and God.

However, I do not believe that we will be held accountable for enabling in the way you believe. Father gives breath to all of us, even those who commit the most atrocious sins, murderers, rapists, child molesters. The man committing torturous acts of sexual abuse on an innocent child is being given the power to do so by God. As I said, if we are to be like him, we must give freely as he does, even if people take our gifts and use them for ill as many do with God's gifts.

I am not saying that pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is wrong. However, it is wrong to insist others do so and use that as an excuse not to give. It is specifically condemned in the Book of Mormon to say that the beggar has brought his troubles upon himself. I would say that is basically what you are doing if you think someone can and should pull themselves up by their bootstraps with no help from you.
Its after all they can do....and from many personal experiences there's folks out there that make a living out of handouts. The ones that show up every time a new bishop is called to see how much they can get out of him before he gets savvy. Always a sob story. Never a result of their decisions.

The trick is to teach fishing rather than always providing fish. And the challenge is getting folks to fish rather than begging for fish. Church welfare system is designed to get folks fishing while keeping them fed in the process. One we would do well to pattern our efforts after.

The gospel is all about freedom and independence...living on handouts is not freedom and independence (in whatever form that might be).
Thanks. I'll inform King Benjamin. He must have left that part out of his speech by mistake.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Rose Garden »

The bottom line is, the gospel is meant for you, not your neighbor. The moment you begin to purposely seek to manipulate others'behavior in order to get them to do what you think is best, you have entered the devil's realm, even if it is merely withholding something you have the power to give. Go ahead and tell yourself it is for the other person's own good. Make sure you tell God as well, because if you don't now, you will be required to give an accounting at the last judgment. I would definitely plan on one of those listening moments after such a prayer. I'm certain he will understand you.

In the meantime, those who are interested in helping someone who has been unable thus far to acquire more secure transportation for herself and aren't too concerned whether you are enabling her, please help. If all you can do is pray, that would be appreciated.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Rose Garden »

Youcaring fundraiser created. https://www.youcaring.com/woman-in-need-495694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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shadow
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Re: Car Needed

Post by shadow »

Jezebel wrote:
I do not believe that we will be held accountable for enabling in the way you believe. Father gives breath to all of us, even those who commit the most atrocious sins, murderers, rapists, child molesters. The man committing torturous acts of sexual abuse on an innocent child is being given the power to do so by God. As I said, if we are to be like him, we must give freely as he does, even if people take our gifts and use them for ill as many do with God's gifts.
But if you know a person is a child molestor and you let that person watch your kids anyway then I think you're a terrible steward of your kids and you will be held somewhat accountable.

The same principle can be applied to giving gifts to a person when you know they can't properly use it. Give a suicidal person a loaded gun and you're going to be partially responsible for what happens. One persons blessing is another's curse. The gift giver has some stewardship. A lesson I've sadly learned myself.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Rose Garden »

shadow wrote:
Jezebel wrote:
I do not believe that we will be held accountable for enabling in the way you believe. Father gives breath to all of us, even those who commit the most atrocious sins, murderers, rapists, child molesters. The man committing torturous acts of sexual abuse on an innocent child is being given the power to do so by God. As I said, if we are to be like him, we must give freely as he does, even if people take our gifts and use them for ill as many do with God's gifts.
But if you know a person is a child molestor and you let that person watch your kids anyway then I think you're a terrible steward of your kids and you will be held somewhat accountable.

The same principle can be applied to giving gifts to a person when you know they can't properly use it. Give a suicidal person a loaded gun and you're going to be partially responsible for what happens. One persons blessing is another's curse. The gift giver has some stewardship. A lesson I've sadly learned myself.
Perhaps what you say is true. I have my personal reasons for exercising control and dominion over any of my little children who are in the process of running into a busy street. But we can't get around the fact that the Lord routinely sends his precious children directly into the homes of child molester parents every single day in the form of helpless infants. Maybe we would be wiser if we understood why.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Elizabeth »

:(
Jezebel wrote: But we can't get around the fact that the Lord routinely sends his precious children directly into the homes of child molester parents every single day in the form of helpless infants. Maybe we would be wiser if we understood why.

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Jason
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Jason »

Elizabeth wrote::(
Jezebel wrote: But we can't get around the fact that the Lord routinely sends his precious children directly into the homes of child molester parents every single day in the form of helpless infants. Maybe we would be wiser if we understood why.
Agency....for better or worse!

He doesn't take away the consequences of mortal decisions....but does provide an eternal escape from judgement and everlasting punishment should we decide to repent.

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Car Needed

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.

Robert Sinclair
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Robert Sinclair »

Let's all send a little and help out, a kind thing to do, I should have something the second wednesday of the month, when my retirement check comes in.♡

Here is that site again:

https://www.youcaring.com/woman-in-need-495694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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Rose Garden
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Rose Garden »

Thanks, Jules; thanks, Robert.

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shadow
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Re: Car Needed

Post by shadow »

Jules wrote:I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.
Where's some examples of this "pride and fear of the poor" you speak of.

Robert Sinclair
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Robert Sinclair »

Be nice, shadow gives to the poor, he does it in the way his heart tells him. All good is good.♡

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shadow
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Re: Car Needed

Post by shadow »

Robert Sinclair wrote:Be nice, shadow gives to the poor, he does it in the way his heart tells him. All good is good.♡
Thank you Robert!

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Rose Garden
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Rose Garden »

Jezebel wrote:Thanks, Jules; thanks, Robert.
Seriously? I got edited. That's kind of pathetic.

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shadow
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Re: Car Needed

Post by shadow »

Jezebel wrote:
Jezebel wrote:Thanks, Jules; thanks, Robert.
Seriously? I got edited. That's kind of pathetic.
Jules' post was edited and mine was deleted. Its the season of niceness and fairness. Glad to see yours was edited, it was kind of mean.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Rose Garden »

shadow wrote:
Jezebel wrote:
Jezebel wrote:Thanks, Jules; thanks, Robert.
Seriously? I got edited. That's kind of pathetic.
Jules' post was edited and mine was deleted. Its the season of niceness and fairness. Glad to see yours was edited, it was kind of mean.
It wasn't intended to be mean. But now that I realize it was just part of a series of edits, it makes more sense. If people can't handle a sigh and head shake, well.....

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Car Needed

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

shadow wrote:
Jules wrote:I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.
Where's some examples of this "pride and fear of the poor" you speak of.
The very fact that there ARE poor among us. It's in the scriptures, and it's all around us. Jesus; King Benjamin; Joseph Smith - this is nothing new. Either is the pride and fear of the poor that keeps people from loving them.

She's a struggling single mom with health issues and an abusive ex for crying out loud, and yet she's vilified as if she is a criminal, or lazy, or ignorant, or whatever other excuse not to simply extend the pure love of Christ, that is pulled out of someone's back pocket.

Oh but wait - we know much better than that stupid, incompetent woman, and we certainly have the right to correct the Savior and other prophets who told us to provide the needs and wants of the poor, and let them keep on begging.

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Car Needed

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

shadow wrote:
Jezebel wrote:
Jezebel wrote:Thanks, Jules; thanks, Robert.
Seriously? I got edited. That's kind of pathetic.
Jules' post was edited and mine was deleted. Its the season of niceness and fairness. Glad to see yours was edited, it was kind of mean.
I edited my own post.

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shadow
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Re: Car Needed

Post by shadow »

Jules wrote:
shadow wrote:
Jules wrote:I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.
Where's some examples of this "pride and fear of the poor" you speak of.
The very fact that there ARE poor among us. It's in the scriptures, and it's all around us. Jesus; King Benjamin; Joseph Smith - this is nothing new. Either is the pride and fear of the poor that keeps people from loving them.

She's a struggling single mom with health issues and an abusive ex for crying out loud, and yet she's vilified as if she is a criminal, or lazy, or ignorant, or whatever other excuse not to simply extend the pure love of Christ, that is pulled out of someone's back pocket.

Oh but wait - we know much better than that stupid, incompetent woman, and we certainly have the right to correct the Savior and other prophets who told us to provide the needs and wants of the poor, and let them keep on begging.
Nobody said there weren't poor among us. The question is how best help them. Giving cars is not always the best way. I'd like to see an argument from you that says otherwise if you don't believe me. I've personally learned a lesson on this very issue. With a stewardship comes a responsibility.
As far as jezebels friend- nobody said to NOT give her a car. If you think otherwise please quote it. As far as her friends issues, Jezebel didn't offer what you posted. She said she was a divorced mother who does not have custody of her kids who is trying to jugle time between visiting them and seeing her boyfriend and that her car is in need of repairs. That's not a reason to deny or give her a car. But if someone had something to give, it would be under their stewardship on how to best help. Maybe giving a car is best, maybe it's not. I suggest getting an extra car then take the issue to God. If you feel prompted to give it to her then do it.
You read waaaay too much into other people's posts. Look at things as half full, not half empty :D

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Rose Garden
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Rose Garden »

shadow wrote:
Jules wrote:
shadow wrote:
Jules wrote:I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.
Where's some examples of this "pride and fear of the poor" you speak of.
The very fact that there ARE poor among us. It's in the scriptures, and it's all around us. Jesus; King Benjamin; Joseph Smith - this is nothing new. Either is the pride and fear of the poor that keeps people from loving them.

She's a struggling single mom with health issues and an abusive ex for crying out loud, and yet she's vilified as if she is a criminal, or lazy, or ignorant, or whatever other excuse not to simply extend the pure love of Christ, that is pulled out of someone's back pocket.

Oh but wait - we know much better than that stupid, incompetent woman, and we certainly have the right to correct the Savior and other prophets who told us to provide the needs and wants of the poor, and let them keep on begging.
Nobody said there weren't poor among us. The question is how best help them. Giving cars is not always the best way. I'd like to see an argument from you that says otherwise if you don't believe me. I've personally learned a lesson on this very issue. With a stewardship comes a responsibility.
As far as jezebels friend- nobody said to NOT give her a car. If you think otherwise please quote it. As far as her friends issues, Jezebel didn't offer what you posted. She said she was a divorced mother who does not have custody of her kids who is trying to jugle time between visiting them and seeing her boyfriend and that her car is in need of repairs. That's not a reason to deny or give her a car. But if someone had something to give, it would be under their stewardship on how to best help. Maybe giving a car is best, maybe it's not. I suggest getting an extra car then take the issue to God. If you feel prompted to give it to her then do it.
You read waaaay too much into other people's posts. Look at things as half full, not half empty :D
:) Jules knows the woman too. She does have a lot of health problems as well. She's been in the ER several times in the past few months and is facing a few other serious problems at present. I'm not really good at making people look like a good bet for giving charity. Her bishop turned her down in the past as well as many other organizations. If you want to judge whether or not she is a good candidate to give a car to, I don't think anyone would fault you (speaking generally here) for moving along.

I think anyone who really knows me would tell you that you can trust that I am telling the truth. Beyond that, I haven't got much of a foundation to stand on when it comes to being trustworthy. I think I've convinced the majority of people that I'm stubbornly foolish. I think my friend needs a new car (because the old one is so broken down it wouldn't be worth fixing) and I don't see my friend being able to buy herself one any time soon (like before the old car dies). I might be wrong in that. Maybe she would get along just fine. Or maybe the Lord has some other plan for her. But anyway, I'm planning on buying her a car and feel free to pitch in if you like. I do know her better than anyone else here and no one else is going to be better situated to determine what she needs than me.

Shadow, I want to mention that my observations are just observations. I'm just saying what things look like to me. But of course, your journey is your journey, and I would never want to cause a person to falter in what they believe is right. I'm sure you haven't let what I've said change your mind in anything. ;) And I agree at least on one point. I think it's a good idea to pray about it.

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Separatist
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Re: Car Needed

Post by Separatist »

Jules wrote:
shadow wrote:
Jules wrote:I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.
Where's some examples of this "pride and fear of the poor" you speak of.
The very fact that there ARE poor among us. It's in the scriptures, and it's all around us. Jesus; King Benjamin; Joseph Smith - this is nothing new. Either is the pride and fear of the poor that keeps people from loving them.

She's a struggling single mom with health issues and an abusive ex for crying out loud, and yet she's vilified as if she is a criminal, or lazy, or ignorant, or whatever other excuse not to simply extend the pure love of Christ, that is pulled out of someone's back pocket.

Oh but wait - we know much better than that stupid, incompetent woman, and we certainly have the right to correct the Savior and other prophets who told us to provide the needs and wants of the poor, and let them keep on begging.
This is all very manipulative. Throwing guilt on others who don't see it your way. Don't we get enough of that on Sunday's? The pure love of Christ does not equal our back pockets.

I've come to the conclusion that all true charity it local. It ought to be up close and personal, where local parties have local knowledge and act accordingly. Soliciting charity on anonymous internet forums and then berating those who question is damn sick. And the berating always seems to come from those who can't even help themselves. The locals who know her should take care of the issue with other locals who know her.

You work in your part of the vineyard and I'll work in mine. How's that for charity?

Good day.

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