We’re surely in it now: Hel/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29, 45,

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

We’re surely in it now: Helaman/3 Nephi, Revelation, D&C 29,45, 112 etc. The last of the last days...

Friends, I’ve been learning a lot that I would like to share at this time and I feel to thank the Lord for this growth. The following represents my studied opinion, not “LDS doctrine”.

1. The Book of Mormon is true. Of course, I knew that before, but lately the words of Nephi, Mormon and Moroni are opening to me as never before as the future that they saw unfolds before us. Helaman 6-11, the Gadiantons’ methods and how they seized control of the government (Hel 6:38). How they sought for money, power (Hel 7) – what part of “gadianton robber” don’t we understand as these guys steal (bail-outs, etc) from us today? I’ve been recommending that you get your savings OUT of places where it will become “slippery” as the Book says…

the Nephites did build [the Gadiantons/secret combination] up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.
39 And thus they did obtain the sole management of the government, insomuch that they did trample under their feet and smite and rend and turn their backs upon the apoor and the meek, and the humble followers of God.
40 And thus we see that they were in an awful state, and aripening for an everlasting destruction.

Nephi tried to get the people to open their eyes to these facts, that the Gadiantons had seized power in the government; but most would not see it. (Until much later... when the great famine hit, Helaman 11).

2. Now, the people in 3 Nephi only defeated the gads by stopping feeding them. Why do we not resist their NWO plans by doing this reverse-siege today? Are we so blind? I am trying to live on a minimum, to simplify my life-style, to be more and more independent of the gads, to stop supporting the gadianton system. Will you consider how you can stop feeding the gads? This simplifying of lifestyle (recall Elder Perry’s last Gen Conf talk) could lead to a peaceful revolution and return to true values… join in, please = Stop feeding the Gadiantons. Ether 8 warns us of a wo pronounced on those who “build up” the secret combination also… Please think about this and join this quiet revolution. 3Nephi 3, 4.


3. The Book of Revelation is unfolding to view also, is it not? Can’t you recognize now the whore Babylon which covers the earth, deceives the people, does anything for money? Worshipped by seven prominent nations? Yes, these are the gadiantons, the money-controllers, the power-mongerers. The “environmentalist” king who says to not hurt the trees nor any “green thing” must soon arise and “sting” the people (Revelation 9).

4. The whore Babylon is blatantly seeking, I believe, a new world order (with the whore Babylon in charge of course) which we must not support nor take the mark upon us (it will become clearer what this mark is). Difficult times, as the whore who rides the beast stops feeding the beast (this is happening now IMO with the deliberate reduction in oil prices) and then the beast will turn and fight the whore Babylon (Rev 17, 18 especially). It is not going to be pretty, this war in which the great city of Babylon will be burned, destroyed “in one hour” John warns repeatedly. (Rev 17, 18 especially).


5. And who is the scarlet beast? Let’s read:

Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 
2: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 
3: So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 
4: And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 
5: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 
6: And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 
7: And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 
8: The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 
9: And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 
10: And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 
11: And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 
12: And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 
13: These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

I agree with Bro. Farley Anderson that the beast on which the whore sits is the “reds,” in particular the nation that was thought demolished but was not in reality (Russia): behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
What other nation fits that description? Note also that G7 nations meet often but Russia joins as the eight to make G8 once a year “vs 11, And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven” fits perfectly. Ten nations will soon join Russia and give their strength to the beast as it turns against the whore Babylon... not far off IMO.

6. How can the great city of the whore Babylon be destroyed “in one hour”?
7.

Revelation 18: 3: For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 
4: And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 
5: For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 
6: Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 
7: How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
8: Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
9: And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 
10: Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 
11: And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: 
12: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 
13: And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. 
14: And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. 
15: The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 
16: And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 
17: For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, 
18: And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! 
19: And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

8. Some have thought this destruction applies to the ancient Roman empire. But the Lord is clear in D&C 29, that the whore must yet be cast down by devouring fire -- yet future:

21 And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire,… which [events] have not come to pass but surely must, as I live,

9. What causes the great “smoke of her burning” that The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment,?
What causes the merchants to stand afar off and not come near? Total destruction in “one hour”? Inflicted on the whore Babylon by the beast which has turned on her? It can only be nuclear, IMO, destroying the great city such that the waters will probably cover Manhattan.

10. In the Book of Mormon, this is 3 Nephi 8, 9 – with great earthquakes and pestilence also. I am saddened that many who live on the earthquake-zones such as San Diego –to- San Francisco AND the Wasatch front zones, will not heed the warnings about great earthquake potentials.

11. Then comes the great gathering in Adam-ondi-Ahman, in Missouri. Again, I find that many saints will not think of going near there any time soon, presuming that the whole of Missouri (not just the “western boundaries” Joseph spoke of, i.e. the Kansas City area) will be totally wiped clean. There is an Ensign article on “Missouri myths” that tries to dispel the myth, but no, somehow people are persuaded to stay clean away from Missouri and sit placidly on the Wasatch front earthquake zone! “On my house shall it begin!”

12. Really? Yes:

D&C 112. 23 Verily, verily, I say unto you, adarkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become bcorrupt before my face.
24 Behold, avengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of bdesolation, of cweeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.
25 And upon my ahouse shall it bbegin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

13. Then the glorious New Jerusalem will be built., spoken of in the Book of Mormon, the Book of Revelation and especially in the D&C. What a glorious city! And of course, it will be built in Missouri. Somehow people seem reluctant to talk about the New Jerusalem, I cannot fathom the reluctance to think of these things which are upon us, which the Lord has instructed us about, pleading with us to PREPARE.

In conclusion (for today anyway) -- pls read these words of the Lord from D&C 45:

47 Then shall the arm of the Lord fall upon the nations.
48 And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this amount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall btremble, and reel to and fro, and the cheavens also dshall shake.
49 And the Lord shall utter his voice, and all the ends of the earth shall hear it; and the nations of the earth shall amourn, and they that have blaughed shall see their cfolly.
50 And calamity shall cover the amocker, and the scorner shall be consumed; and they that have watched for iniquity shall be hewn down and bcast into the cfire.
51 And then shall the aJews blook upon me and say: What are these cwounds in thine hands and in thy feet?
52 Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was awounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was bcrucified. I am the cSon of God.
53 And then shall they aweep because of their iniquities; then shall they blament because they cpersecuted their dking.
54 And then shall the aheathen nations be bredeemed, and they that cknew no dlaw shall have part in the efirst fresurrection; and it shall be gtolerable for them.
55 And aSatan shall be bbound, that he shall have no place in the hearts of the children of men.
56 And at that day, when I shall come in my aglory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten bvirgins.
57 For they that are wise and have received the atruth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their bguide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the cfire, but shall abide the day.
58 And the aearth shall be given unto them for an binheritance; and they shall cmultiply and wax strong, and their dchildren shall egrow up without fsin unto gsalvation.
59 For the Lord shall be in their amidst, and his bglory shall be upon them, and he will be their cking and their dlawgiver.
60 And now, behold, I say unto you, it shall not be given unto you to know any further concerning this chapter, until the aNew bTestament be translated, and in it all these things shall be made known;
61 Wherefore I give unto you that ye may now translate it, that ye may be prepared for the things to come.
62 For verily I say unto you, that great things await you;
63 Ye hear of awars in foreign lands; but, behold, I say unto you, they are nigh, even at your bdoors, and not many years hence ye shall hear of wars in your own lands.
64 Wherefore I, the Lord, have said, gather ye out from the aeastern lands, assemble ye yourselves together ye elders of my church; go ye forth into the western countries, call upon the inhabitants to repent, and inasmuch as they do repent, build up churches unto me.
65 And with one heart and with one mind, gather up your riches that ye may apurchase an inheritance which shall hereafter be appointed unto you.
66 And it shall be called the aNew Jerusalem, a bland of cpeace, a city of drefuge, a place of esafety for the saints of the Most High God;
67 And the aglory of the Lord shall be there, and the bterror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion.
68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his aneighbor must needs flee unto bZion for safety.
69 And there shall be agathered unto it out of every bnation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at cwar one with another.
70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are aterrible; wherefore we cannot stand.
71 And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with asongs of everlasting bjoy.

A lot to look forward to. Please don’t give up as tribulations come, for 3 Nephi 11 (the Lord’s coming) follows soon after 3 Nephi 8; just as Revelation 19-20 (the Lord’s coming) follows soon after Revelation 17-18.

Finally,
D&C 38:21-33 "I will be your king and watch over you...Hear my voice and follow me, and you shall be a free people, and ye shall have no law but my laws when I come, for I am your lawgiver, and what can stay my hand? ...The enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives... Ye know not the hearts of men in your own land...But if ye are prepared ye shall not fear... And that ye might escape the power of the enemy and be gathered unto me a righteous people...I will lead [you] whithersoever I will"

--Dr. Steven E. Jones, 17 Feb 2009

[p51-mustangcaptain of 1,000]

Doc Jones,

Really good analysis here. I agree with most of what you are saying. In regards to moving out of the wasatch front area to avoid the earthquakes etc. I am not sure I concur with this. I have been listening to "Anarchy in America" by Duane Crowther (whom you probably know from BYU). He quotes many latter day prophecies that state that when the anarchy begins in America, that those who wont kill thier brethren will flee to the intermountain west for safety. Brigham Young stated that Utah was designed by the Lord as a place of safety for the saints when the tribulation starts. Judging from the John Taylor vision of the last days, it sounds like a plague will hit Utah and that will be the trial "that begins at his house". I think Utah will be a staging area for the saints initially, then as the wicked are swept off, those qualified will begin the exodus back to Missouri. There will be some destruction here, but it will be limited IMO.

[MahonriMaster]

Doc Jones,

Really good analysis here. I agree with most of what you are saying. In regards to moving out of the wasatch front area to avoid the earthquakes etc. I am not sure I concur with this. I have been listening to "Anarchy in America" by Duane Crowther (whom you probably know from BYU). He quotes many latter day prophecies that state that when the anarchy begins in America, that those who wont kill thier brethren will flee to the intermountain west for safety. Brigham Young stated that Utah was designed by the Lord as a place of safety for the saints when the tribulation starts. Judging from the John Taylor vision of the last days, it sounds like a plague will hit Utah and that will be the trial "that begins at his house". I think Utah will be a staging area for the saints initially, then as the wicked are swept off, those qualified will begin the exodus back to Missouri. There will be some destruction here, but it will be limited IMO.

Maybe the physical destruction will be limited, but, IMO, the destruction from famine and disease, etc will be tremendous. The cleansing of His house will be dramatic.

[p51-mustangcaptain of 1,000]

I have been studying Rev 17 and 18 lately as well. I kept wondering about the the players described in these chapters. This verse is particularly telling:

15: The merchants of these things, (China, other slave labor nations) which were made rich by her (the whore, America and other gentile nations), shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

I kept thinking that these chapters spoke of a nation that produced things and that it would collapse etc. But I now realize that this is referring to a nation that makes other nations rich (buy buying thier goods with counterfiet FRNs, America in other words) then the whore collapses and those trading partners who now have no place to sell thier goods mourn the loss of the whore (America). Those nations stand afar off in fear hoping that they dont also suffer destruction by fire (nukes?)from the Beast

We are witnessing the fulfillment of these prophecies. What a scary yet exciting time to be alive!

[p51-mustangcaptain of 1,000]

I am trying to understand the imagery of this verse:

3: So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

It says that the "woman sat upon the scarlet colored beast" The scarlet seems to refer to the Red of communism. The idea of the woman riding the beast is unclear. does this have something to do with "control"? Benson and others taught that the soviets where financed by wealthy NWO people from America. Could this be a clue? The Beast is controlled by the woman (evil, wealthy globalist Americans). Just some thoughts.

[akishHi, I'm new.]

Dr Jones,

I am new at this forum, I just joined today. I have been a guest for several months. I found this particular post interesting. Do you consider cental utah a good place to be in these times? If so why? If not then have you considered moving and where?

Thanks Akish

[keeprunningcaptain of 100]

A lot to look forward to. Please don’t give up as tribulations come, for 3 Nephi 11 (the Lord’s coming) follows soon after 3 Nephi 8; just as Revelation 19-20 (the Lord’s coming) follows soon after Revelation 17-18.
Finally,
D&C 38:21-33 "I will be your king and watch over you...Hear my voice and follow me, and you shall be a free people, and ye shall have no law but my laws when I come, for I am your lawgiver, and what can stay my hand? ...The enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives... Ye know not the hearts of men in your own land...But if ye are prepared ye shall not fear... And that ye might escape the power of the enemy and be gathered unto me a righteous people...I will lead [you] whithersoever I will"

--Dr. Steven E. Jones, 17 Feb 2009

Thank you for this part, and all the other interesting observations.
The above bolded really jumped out at me, because I've been thinking about when women are in the "transition" part of labor. It compares so well because you've been laboring for so long, and now you've gotten to the most intense part, and your mind feels like if it lasts much longer you don't know how you are going to get through. You are so close to giving up. In reality it doesn't last long but it is hard to keep the faith and focus. But literally in minutes your baby is born and it is all over and bliss.
It's so important to remember that it's not going to last long, and we will soon feel sooo relieved that we made it through the trials.

[p51-mustangcaptain of 1,000]

Maybe the physical destruction will be limited, but, IMO, the destruction from famine and disease, etc will be tremendous. The cleansing of His house will be dramatic.

Yes, I think this is correct. Those that aren't abiding thier covenants will really be hurting. Those who do abide their covenants will not escape all of this entirely.

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

Good comments! Thanks for the responses. P-51, pls note that the 7 nations (G7?) kneel before the whore Babylon -- which is above them and over all the waters. So America is not the whore Babylon, which is over all these nations, but is one that kneels to the whore Babylon. The whore is the gadiantons / the global banksters and corporations cartel / = those who promote the NWO. (Trying to summarize).

Here I believe you are getting it:

The scarlet seems to refer to the Red of communism. The idea of the woman riding the beast ... does this have something to do with "control"? Benson and others taught that the soviets where financed by wealthy NWO people from America. Could this be a clue? The Beast is controlled by the woman

Dr Jones,

I am new at this forum, I just joined today. I have been a guest for several months. I found this particular post interesting. Do you consider cental utah a good place to be in these times? If so why? If not then have you considered moving and where?

Thanks Akish

This is a sensitive point. Many don't believe me, but again, I have shown strong evidence that there are earthquake-starting devices, and in the hands of evil men, this makes very dangerous ANY zone where earthquake potential energy is stored. (See thread on EARTHQUAKES.) Do you believe that in the last days there will be quakes in diverse places? (Matt 24 etc) Could some of this be man-made, just as we know pestilences and famines can and often are man-made? Why not earthquakes?

Please consider that the Wasatch front, and the San Andreas fault, are sitting on faults zones, with enormous stored-up destructive energy possible... and likely.

Was not all the fanfare with the earthquake-strengthening of the SLC tabernacle a warning to those on the Wasatch? Have they likewise prepared their homes against major quakes?

My wife and I have moved last year away from the Wasatch, to Sanpete valley which does not have this potential for huge earthquakes. LA - to - San Francisco are not safe either, in the last days, IMO!
(Please pray about your own stewardship, if you would be wise to move, that's all I ask. AT least have a place of refuge to go to...)

[akishHi, I'm new.]

Dr Jones,
We live on the east coast in PA ( Farmette). We are somewhat self reliant but my husband believes that the Rocky Mtns. may be a safer place to live. I am just researching all possibilities so that we can make a decision and pray about it. Thanks for any insight.

Akish

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

The Rockies -- that is a big area, Akish, and probably a safer area than the east IMO. BUT -- that does NOT mean that the Wasatch front (from Nephi on the south to a ways north of Brigham City) would be a safe place to move to...

Nor would I move to ANY high-population density area, in the last days, and that would include LA, SF, Seattle, Provo-to-Salt Lake-to-Ogden, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Denver, New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, etc.

My wife and I moved to rural Spring City, UT. And we have another place of refuge...

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

Good point, KeepRunning.
P51:

The scarlet seems to refer to the Red of communism. The idea of the woman riding the beast ...does this have something to do with "control"? Benson and others taught that the soviets where financed by wealthy NWO people from America. Could this be a clue? The Beast is controlled by the woman

Right. But then, in Revelation, the whore stops feeding the scarlet beast. Could this be happening now? -- in the last few months, the whore Babylon has driven down the cost of oil so low that Russia, Iran, Venezuela -- these oil-producing horns or allies are really hurting. No longer being fed by the whore.

If this is correct, then we can expect the beast to turn on the whore soon (within next few years) and strike a fatal blow to the whore Babylon as Revelation says it will. The wicked fighting the wicked.

[p51-mustangcaptain of 1,000]

I posted this on another thread but it seems timely here:

My thoughts are that Revelations speaks of 2 dictatorships that rise up. The first will be here in America and at the end of 3 1/2 years will be thrown down. This dictatorship starts sometime this year with the Obama administration and his rubber stamp congress. Revelations says that it will turn on the saints and kill some of them. We will likely be forced to choose between an oath to satan/govt' or choosing Christ and being executed. We know from the BOM that the Lord drops the hammer on any nation that kills his saints. Shortly after the killing of the saints starts the Lord intervenes and we witness the destruction of the "Whore", spoken of in chapters 17 and 18.

No wonder it says this in chapter 18:

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

and this:

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

[p51-mustangcaptain of 1,000]

Akish, are you sure about that handle on this forum. I mean Akish wasnt really a great guy with all the involvement in secret combinations the murders etc. I'm just sayin'

Maybe "HappyBunny" or "LoveMonkey" would conduce a better feeling

[p51-mustangcaptain of 1,000]

Right. But then, in Revelation, the whore stops feeding the scarlet beast. Could this be happening now? -- in the last few months, the whore Babylon has driven down the cost of oil so low that Russia, Iran, Venezuela -- these oil-producing horns or allies are really hurting. No longer being fed by the whore.

This is a good point and others are pointing this out as well. Lindsay Williams who is a former Oil exec says that he got a call from the PTB and he said the gameplan of the SC was to drop the price of oil so they could bankrupt the oil rich nations. I think you are dead on with this. Lookup Lindsay Williams on youtube to see his video.

Whats sad is that these conspiring men dont realize is that thier treachery will soon cost them thier very lives as they miscalculate in their efforts for more power and money.

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

It is true, P51, that the whore Babylon will fight against the saints in particular. I do not look forward to that part.

It is also clear from John's Revelation that when the beast strikes a fatal blow to the whore, it is part of God's justice.

[p51-mustangcaptain of 1,000]

It is also clear from John's Revelation that when the beast strikes a fatal blow to the whore, it is part of God's justice.

Yes it will be justice and we also know from John's revelation that the saints will "cheer" the downfall of the Whore. Why would they do that? Don't we pray for our nation and its welfare right now? Don't most people hope that the prosperity party will go on forever? Yet when this nation falls the saints that remain will actually "cheer" its demise. This attitude among the remaining saints tells me that things will happen to them that cause them to be pretty happy when the govt' finally falls.

We cant get to the New Jerusalem until the govt' falls, so lets get it over with already.

[chicafoomcaptain of 100]

We cant get to the New Jerusalem until the govt' falls, so lets get it over with already.

Maybe I should support Obama's policies afterall

On a more serious note though, this is a really great discussion. I'll be the first to admit that as hard as I try, things like Isaiah, Revelation, etc. go quite high over my head (although understanding the nature of Secret Combines has helped somewhat). I love to read how others are interpreting the scriptures and signs of the times. It helps give me some jumping off points to find knowledge and receive personal revelation.

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

I love to read how others are interpreting the scriptures and signs of the times. It helps give me some jumping off points to find knowledge and receive personal revelation.

A good approach, Chicafoom.

With regard to the difficult question of WHEN, John the Beloved gives us some times.

The "environmentalist" king ah-ba-something ("abaddon" in Hebrew) will reign for 5 months (Revelation 9), very clear and soon. Then comes the great plague in which a THIRD part of mankind will die... sorry, that's the picture (I know many of you are preparing against a pandemic).

I believe this is deliberate by the whore Babylon, this de-population is something the NWO-mongers actually WANT and design, sadly.

Thereafter the scarlet beast will deliver a blow to Babylon, destroying her city "in one hour." Now -- and this is a wild guess as to the time -- this nuclear blow from the beast and the ten countries (horns) which will support it will take place in Dec. 2012 (from predictions of the ancient Maya).

Somewhere along this time, we will build that promised place of refuge, the New Jerusalem -- in Missouri. Given the tribulations, the saints will surely rejoice when that is announced.

IMO, the "call-out" or gathering will not occur until AFTER the first or second wave of de-populating tribulation. After we're humbled and better prepared to go....

[p51-mustangcaptain of 1,000]

Chica, glad you are searching for the truth. My formula for understanding these things is this:

1. Be worthy of revelation
2. Study the scriptures daily (especially the BOM)
3. Familiarize yourself with history and current events. Without an understanding of these things the scripture parallels wont make sense.
4. Ponder and pray that the lord will give you understanding.
5. Dont pay attention to mainstream news. They provide cover for the bad guys.

And this forum and others like it are great helps too. Working with other like minded saints has helped me immensley. I have found that as I do these things that my studies will create "dots", then the Lord will fill in the blanks and connect the dots and a mental picture will emerge. Ask and you shall receive, knock and it shall be opened unto you and all that!

[willcaptain of 100]

D&C 38:21-33 "I will be your king and watch over you...Hear my voice and follow me, and you shall be a free people, and ye shall have no law but my laws when I come, for I am your lawgiver, and what can stay my hand? ...The enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives... Ye know not the hearts of men in your own land...But if ye are prepared ye shall not fear... And that ye might escape the power of the enemy and be gathered unto me a righteous people...I will lead [you] whithersoever I will"

I Believe the Lord will take a prepared people.

[abishHi, I'm new.]

Oh my : what a difference one little letter makes I meant Abish the lamanite woman. My memory is not what it used to be
so funny! though. I will from now on be known as Abish on this forum (New Name).

thank you for pointing out my error! Ha Ha,

Sincerely, Abish

[p51-mustangcaptain of 1,000]

Thanks for that clarification "Abish". I get what you are saying. Everytime I go near an operating microwave oven. I wet my pants and forget my name for a few minutes so I see you dilema!

Welcome to the forum, we are glad to have you here!

[kathyncaptain of 1,000]

It's amazing that once you get a few key points, everything else becomes pretty clear. I am sure that those of us who are left, say a decade from now, will look back and we'll be amazed that more Saints didn't understand the prophecies. I do appreciate everyone's insight.

I've read Revelation and the book Opening the Seventh Seal, Crowther's books and others of the same genre, plus a lot LDS last days fiction. But the things posted on this thread have really helped my understanding of the things happening right now.

Wow, if Obama is really Abbadon or Apollyon.....yikes! The time is getting short. (I know that both of those names represent the devil, but still.....)

[believercaptain of 100]

This has been a very enlightening thread. There are a lot of very good thoughts, and questions and reasoning.

I have thought a lot about the cleansing starting in the Lords own house, Here are some of my thoughts:

1. The cleansing will be the whole church, and not just Utah or the Western U.S.

2. The cleansing could start at anytime.

3. The cleansing will prepare the church and it's faithful members for the trials to come by weeding out those that would hold the church back.

4. The only thing that I could think that would be hurt the church and not other people would be persecution. Also this could be the church all over the world, and not just one locality.

5. Plague COULD follow or be part of the persecution, ie: white powder mailed to the general authorities or any of us for that matter, or some other biological or chemical warfare. This would be dangerous though because it would probably spread to the general population.

6. It COULD start with members who have taken on the mark of the beast.

7. It COULD be something that the Lord himself inflicts on those that "have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord."

These are just my thoughts, and not meant in any way that this is what will happen.

believer

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

Great comments, and welcome ABISH...

Next consider, that the scarlet (red) beast in REvelation has SEVEN heads... which nations represent these heads? Here is a possible answer, from an alliance that just recently formed (as the whore Babylon has stopped feeding the beast...)

Russia and allies to create joint air defence: report

Reuters Friday, February 6, 2009; 8:44 AM The Washinton Post

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia and its post-Soviet allies are planning to create a joint air defense system stretching from NATO's borders to China, news agencies quoted an official from their Moscow-led regional security group as saying on Friday. Russia and Belarus, which borders NATO members Poland and Lithuania, agreed Tuesday to merge their air defense systems in a move seen by many experts as a response to U.S. plans to deploy elements of its missile defense system in Eastern Europe.
"The united air defense system of Russia and Belarus will become part of a joint air defense system of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (ODKB)," Interfax news agency quoted general secretary Nikolai Bordyuzha as saying.

The seven-member ODKB also includes the Caucasus republic of Armenia and four Central Asian states of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan.

"We are planning to create within the framework of our organization three regional air defense systems including Russia-Belarus, Russia-Armenian in the Caucasus region and the Central Asian air defense system," Bordyuzha added.

The joint air defense project, which would combine early warning systems of member states and create a single control center, has been talked about for years. Bordyuzha did not say when the project would finally be accomplished.

Out of seven ODKB states only Russia has a major modern air defense system capable of detecting and destroying both airplanes and missiles. Russia also has several major radars in ex-Soviet states.

Moscow has recently stepped up efforts to reinforce economic, military and security ties with ex-Soviet allies most of whom are being actively courted by the West and show some willingness for a more balanced foreign policy less dependent on Moscow.

Russia and Belarus decided on the creation of the joint air defense system Tuesday, a day before ODKB leaders agreed to set up a joint fast reaction force at their summit in Moscow.

The decisions have been accompanied by hefty Russian financial aid to allies struggling with the global crisis.

Russia has promised to consider nearly $3 billion in fresh credits to Belarus and agreed to contribute up to $7 billion to a $10 billion regional emergency fund.

Analysts say the creation of a joint air defense system may also be a response to the U.S. missile shield plans in Europe viewed by Moscow as a direct threat to national security.

Moscow is seeking to persuade new U.S. President Barack Obama to review a decision by his predecessor George W. Bush to deploy interceptor missiles in Poland and a radar in the Czech republic.
Stronger regional alliances may give Russia a stronger say in talks with Washington, which will also include the sensitive issues of NATO membership for ex-Soviet Ukraine and Georgia and Russia's support to the U.S.-led operation in Afghanistan.

'And from the same report --

Tuesday, Kyrgyzstan announced it would close a U.S. air base near its capital Bishkek, a key element in supplying U.S. troops in Afghanistan. The decision was made after Russia offered Kyrgyzstan a life-saving aid package of over $2 billion.

This cuts a vital supply link for US troops... not good.

[Spencecaptain of 1,000]

Great post Dr. Jones. I especially like the quoted verses of Revelation 17. I think that is something we all need to strive to do, to simplify and cast off our jewels. I got the impression with the few talks on the Saturday morning session last October. Probably showing up late to it, but I guess late is better than never. I've seen others around me do the same since Oct as well. Getting rid of all their trinkets and such.

I also, since in the next 5 years, I would like to find some acres to farm and settle a family, am always curious on locations. Sanpete is just so expensive. Anywhere in Utah for that matter, but I love the state. But Sanpete holds sentimental value since my families heritage comes from that area. Maybe with the fall of the turkey empire we could see a change though. Missouri really has some cheap land that is far more fertile, with ponds and such for a much less price. So do other ares. (On second thoughts, just thinking about Missouri right now, I get a bad feeling about that. I just don't think those people stand a chance when society collapses. I think traveling looters would wipe that area clean. So maybe that is off.)

I think I agree with you that an earthquake will visit the Wasatch. I just don't see how the Lord could not with all the iniquity in this are and the vanity of the saints here. Also, I don't think the church would leave the safety of the mountains unless there was a reason. That reason, I feel would have to be destruction from earthquake, plague or nuclear holocaust. I do think the Lord will spare the majority of the righteous according to his will.

I guess I will approach the location issue when the time comes and the funds are acquired, just looking for options in the meantime. I do however like the safety of the mountains more than I do the desire of good cheap land.

[pjbrowniecaptain of 1,000]

My thoughts:

I have been studying this topic carefully for almost a year now, using scripture as my main guide, and dreams and visions where they align with scripture, but mostly sticking to scripture.

1. On Russia and the Beast - I really believe Dr. Jones is correct, and let me add one caveat. The plan for the Socialist Internationale was never to remain based in Russia. It is true that Russia will overrun Europe, but it doesn't plan to stay based in Russia headquarters-wise. It plans to relocate to Rome in Italy, the birthplace of the Internationale - a double prophecy as John the Revelator puts it, and it will probably not take on the same Leninist-Stalinist form. It's more likely to be statist, nationalist, and more like Nazi Germany "and anti-Semitic despite some blaming the NWO on Jews". The big threats in Moscow right now are National Bolsheviks, indicated by their flag below. They are supposedly a minority party, as are other rightist parties against what seems to be a more "centrist" Putin government, but this could be a ruse.

National-Bolshevik-Party.jpg (4.03 KiB) Viewed 3685 times

They may be allowed to subvert the current government and "overthrow" based on the current economic problems - this could be any day now. It could also be another rightist or leftist branch, who knows, but I do believe that the Catholic church (or Orthodox) will be complicit and will conspire with this Beast and become the "false prophet" spoken of in Revlations, regaining its post-Justinian pre-Refomation throne in the setup imagined all along using Sovietism as a patsy to set up a neo-Aristocracy envisioned by the NWO.

2. On Eathquake Zones - It's true but some people are going to be called to stay in SLC/Provo area, some will be called to go elsewhere. I'm in Cedar City right now, probably more relatively safe, but who knows. We need good Saints to remain in SLC to help others, so keep your personal spirit in mind. Even if you have to suffer, the Lord knows where he needs us, and I'm no so convinced Sanpete County is such a safe haven, some believe it is also in a major eathquake zone. Blanding would be the safest place in Utah, and its also farthest off of I-15. I'm also not sure about timing of eathquakes and plagues. Many seem to believe that the plague is what will start it all, but I'm not convinced, I think it will happend, but timelines are tricky things here, as well as earthquakes. I say pray to Heavenly Father to let you know where you should be, and prepare for your circumstances, even if you're in Manhattan, maybe you need to stay there and get vaporized or whatever. So far, I have seen nothing convincing from the Scriptures that indicates where to move to to escape calamity. I certainly wouldn't want to be in Mexico right now, as some are suggesting.

3. On Obama - I really think its likely that he will become a dictator in a few month (by April) or he will turn into Jimmy Carter as the country breaks apart. I'm not convinced either way. I think we could break apart into civil unrest and anarchy, or we could be strongarmed by a dictator. Despite all of the "plans" of FEMA camps and chips, etc. I'm not convinced they will be enacted. I liken it to the "pit" in Nephi; I think these plans may collapse under their own weight. They may come back under the reign of the Beast, but that will not affect Zion at that time.

I give us until October. We either recover, via the stimulus, create a new bubble, set up Obama as hero, thereby setting ourselves up for another bigger fall two or three years down the road, or we are collapsed an in civil unrest and martial law territory by October. It all depends on how inflation of money, deflation of assests, etc. intersect as to what happens. I know we won't have to wait long. I've seen tea leaves myself for a little over a year, and I'm tired. I can't wait until we know what will happen (a last reprieve or a trigger to the end of the times of the Gentiles).

I would like more information on the sources for a five-month Apollyon Abaddon dictator spoken of. I think it's in Revelations, but Obama appears out of Context. It seems the Apollyon dictator is linked to a pre-Armaggedon timeframe in the plagues that afflict us after Zion is established in NJ. Of course I'm taking the opinion that the NJ thing happens, then the calling of the House of Israel, then Jersulam's conversion. Some combined this into a same timeframe.

[bobhenstracaptain of 1,000]

My exceptions include NYC. NYC will be destroyed by an earthquake, not a bomb. Yes, the cleansing will begin with the Church, (Probably a desolating sickness) it'll also be the first to recover in one year or, perhaps a bit less, while the rest of the country suffers mightily. But I fear neither! Whatever happens, happens! I'm as prepared as I can be. If it's my time and I'm taken, I'll be happier then I am now-----Someone else will have a lot of food to eat--- Other then that, great comments!

Bob

[AussieOicaptain of 1,000]

yeah, we're worried.

really worried now