Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Post by Proud 2b Peculiar »

agreed.

hmscarrie
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Post by hmscarrie »

Thanks, I was just being cautious about the interpretation. But when the Lord speaks in parables, it probably is because he intends more than one meaning anyway.

I really love this quote: "the best way to keep corrupt individuals from subverting constitutional and legal processes is for committed citizens to maintain a constant, careful surveillance over governmental activities, opposing individuals motivated only by selfish ambition."

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Post by Proud 2b Peculiar »

I wish it wasn't so, but history does tend to repeat itself, and I see it repeating with the section about the Civil war and this particular parable.

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Post by buffalo_girl »

The "Parable of the Tower" has been a major topic in our household this past few days. There are so many aspects of it that seem to apply to our current state of affairs in this country and so many aspects that seem to apply in our personal lives, as well. The servants' thought that money spent on building the tower was wasted and could be better employed by investing it 'with the exchangers' (v. 49) rang a bell - a bell not unlike the one we hear from Wall St. when things aren't going so well.

Anyway, while working at the temple in Bismarck last evening it occurred to me that these temples are the Tower. When asked, "When shall these things be?", the Lord's answer is, "When I will; go ye straightway, and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you,".

And, "And his servant went straightway, and did all things whatsoever his lord commanded him; and after many days all things were fulfilled."

Perhaps, when we make the Lord's work a 'prompt' and willing priority in our lives we will be better able to hear and heed additional 'commandments' in our effort to 'avenge [the Lord] of mine enemies, that by and by I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land'.

This, "I may come with the residue of mine house and possess the land" is a sweet promise.

We need the assertive strength and energy of the 'warriors, young men, and the middle aged', but every one of us can also be working in the Tower as often as possible in order to receive increasing insight, vision, and guidance in how to 'break down the walls of mine enemies; throw down their tower, and scatter their watchmen.'

Could this be Zion's Camp in our own time?

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Post by stan »

buffalo-girl and others
There was no response to the test that was suggested in my earlier post. Oh well.
Briefly stated, as a result to a prayer, in 1960 God called a young boy to awake to His will. He gave the boy some instruction. In 1965 the boy was given two missions, the latter was to "seek to the presidency." That one has spent 48 years doing his best to learn all available to be best prepaired. The founding fathers, J. Smith, McKay, J.R. Clark, Kimball, Benson have all been great aids but the Holy Spirit has been the source that has filled his life with wonder. The boy is now old and will probably, God willing, make the attempt in the next general election. All this is more fully explained at stanwarnerdotcom.
God bless all of you,
Stan

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Post by buffalo_girl »

Maybe your call to be a president is to be a Temple President. If President of the US then hold out until the Gadiantons are 'swept off'. They don't like competition and they are becoming increasingly open in their murder and mayhem. You have time. Ron Paul is in his 70's.

I'm still trying to figure out the answer to 'the test'. Does it involve the Boston Temple?

I love that city and I know the Lord does, too. He gave us the most incredible electrical storm July 3, 1997 during my one and only visit there. My son's Italian boss gave a 4th of July party on the roof of his very, very old apartment building overlooking Boston Harbor. The Lord's lightning show out did the fireworks display from the Charles River the next night!

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k&w
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Post by k&w »

(on a side note)
Thank you Stan for sharing. Many many great lessons in there! Again, thanks! :D


(about the tower)
At first I thought the tower = the Constitution ... and it makes sense, but something didn't feel right about the conclusion, it felt incomplete....
And Stan's post I believe is right on - we are blind without the Spirit.
Had they been in-tune and followed the Spirit, then they would've had their eyes opened for both the need for the tower and the coming armies as well (aka worked toward supporting the Constitution and been aware of the secret combinations).
Or in other words, I would say it's both the Constitution AND being in-tune with the Spirit. Constitution alone isn't enough - following the Spirit leads to both.

2 Nephi 28:21 is extraordinarily applicable in this parable:
21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.


*wave* to carrie and others I know here :D

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Post by Lek Leka »

Thanks hmscarrie:
I think your insight must be taken as the most correct. That said, I also think as others have stated, there may be more than one interpretation. If in fact there will be a second fulfillment of this parable, it too must concur with the major points in the CES description, which many arguments seem to fall short of,… IMO.

Assuming the “land, very choice” is American, not just Missouri, then we might expect this parable to concur with other eschatological writings dealing with vineyards. (See Isa. 5, Jacob 5).

These players are as the follows:

Babylon: Which is destroyed by Assyria (Isa. 5, 8, 10, 13, 14, 47)
Assyria: Which comes from the North, destroys Babylon (see above) and her vassal states (Isa. 13 – 24), and is in the end destroyed by Zion (aka Jacob, Lamanites, Remnant D&C 49:24-25, Isa. 10)
The Latter-day Davidic/Josephite (Lehi’s son) Servant (See D&C 113:1-6, Isa. 11:1-12; 48, 49; 2 Nephi 3: 1-5, 23-25)

D&C 101:

“For there is no need of these things.” (Plural. The context would seem this is speaking of both the tower and the watchman.)

The “watchman” have traditionally been the prophets, and note the nobleman does NOT chastise the watchman, but instead the servants. Could it be we don’t want to hear the prophets? (1 Sam 8:4-7,19-22; Alma 29:1-6)

The tower…I honestly don’t know…but let’s go with the one some of you have postulated, the Constitution. First let’s add some alternate voices to the traditional mindset that the United States, and the Constitution, will hang by a thread and be saved by the Elders.

Elder Orson Hyde remembered the Prophet's statement as follows: "I believe he said something like this—that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of overthrow; and said he: `If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church.' I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it." (Journal of Discourses 6:152.)

Note that Elder Orson Hyde recalled the Prophet Joseph stating that both the constitution and the country would be in danger, but ONLY the “Constitution” would be saved. “IF” the Constitution is to be saved at all it would be by the Elders of the Church. i.e. the “servants” not the “watchman.” Ever wonder why there is so little said about the Gadiantons today from the Conference Center?

Presidents John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff both testified that the wickedness that prevails in the earth is one of the factors leading to its destruction. “A terrible day of reckoning is approaching the nations of the earth; the Lord is coming out of his hiding place to vex the inhabitants thereof; and the destroyer of the gentiles, (Lek Leka note: aka the King of Assyria) as prophesied of, is already on his way. (B.H. Roberts, Life of John Taylor, p. 362)


President John Taylor spoke of it as saving of the constitutional principles rather than the actual government itself.

“When the people have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men, and extending the hand of fellowship to the oppressed of all nations. This is part of the program, and as long as we do what is right and fear God, he will help us and stand by us under all circumstances.” (J of D, vol. 21, p. 8)

Note the “Constitution,” not the USA, will be saved by the Elders of Israel and held up to “the nations of the earth” to extend the hand of fellowship to “the oppressed of all nations.” Could it be that the USA, as we know it, will be destroyed, but the principles of the Constitution will lay the groundwork for the political Kingdom of God on earth during the millennium?

Back to D&C 101.

Seems the servants are more concerned with money than building a tower. Sounds like the materialism of America today. Thus, the watchmen fall asleep. (See also Isa 28: 7 – 13; Isa. 56:10).

After the enemy comes, and many servants flee, the Lord of the vineyard comes to “one of his servants.” Up until this point “servants” has always been plural, but now we get “the servant” that in the end of the parable is made “a ruler in my kingdom.” Just as the Davidic/Ephriamite later-day Servant will also become a ruler in His kingdom, just as “David” was before. (Isa. 11; D&C 113; 2Nephi3)

This servant, if he is the same one spoken of in Isaiah, will be commissioned to “assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” (Isa. 11:12). Note our “servant” in D&C 101 is charge with a like calling, “Go and gather together the residue of my servants,” Also note that both the Servant and the gathered Servants are NOT in the “choice land,” but instead someplace else outside the choice land, that has just been taken by the enemy. “go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; for it is mine; I have bought it with money. Therefore, get ye straightway unto my land.” In Isa. 10 we find that after the King of Assyria destroys Babylon, the Lord fights the battles for Zion, by killing the Assyrian army with a disease. (Isa. 10:16) Once the Assyrian army is destroyed by the Servant and all those that were not “appointed to tarry,” Zion will then be fit to be inhabited by “the residue of mine house and possess the land.”

One of the reasons we can argue that D&C 101, WILL have a second fulfillment is found in the statement: “And his servant went straightway, and did all things whatsoever his lord commanded him; and after many days all things were fulfilled.” The Servant was commanded to “gather the residue, and destroy the enemy.” Since “all these things haven’t been fulfilled,” yet, i.e. we are not in Jackson County living with the Lord, we can assume that:

(1) The “land, very choice” (USA) has yet to be destroyed by the enemy.

(2) The Servant has not arrived on the scene
(We might look to Alma Sr. w/ king Noah, as a “types” for this servant. Alma leads a small group out of the city, before it is destroyed. Many are killed, some taken captive, (Isa. 10:4) and humbled by subsequent wars before all, both Alma people which avoid war, and King Limhi’s people who are humbled by war, are able to return to Zion…Zarahemla.)

(3) The Saints living outside the “land, very choice” will someday be gathered, and destroy the enemy, as they reclaim Zion. (See 3Nephi 16, 20, 21).
Last edited by Lek Leka on September 29th, 2008, 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lek Leka
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With Regards to Zion:

Our unique LDS belief is that we “believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; ….” (Articles of Faith:10.) In fact the city of Zion will be headquartered in “Missouri, which is … the land of promise, and the place for the city of Zion.” (D&C 57:1-3.)

We also believe Zion is a people’s lifestyle, “And the Lord called his people ZION, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them.” (Moses 7:18-20.)

Joseph Smith taught that Zion is both a place and a people. In the following verse the Lord ties together as synonymous the terms “Jacob” with the “Lamanites” and “Zion” as “his people” which peoples will all be “assembled together” in the “place” the Lord “appoints.” (No mention of Gentiles.)

(D&C 49:24-25.) But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose. Zion shall flourish upon the hills and rejoice upon the mountains, and shall be assembled together unto the place which I have appointed.

The early Latter-day Saints, dreamed of attaining Zion, but as we know they failed in their attempt. (D&C 101:42-62) Shortly after they were scattered from Missouri, in a letter dated December 10th, 1833, Joseph Smith explained to the scattered saints that although he’d inquired of the Lord, he still did not know two things:
First, “Why God has suffered so great a calamity to come upon Zion,” and
Second, “By what means He will return her [Zion] back to her inheritance…” (History of the Church, Vol. I, p. 454). It seems that by the April Conference of 1834, the First Presidency of the Church had obtained the answers they saught. Joseph Smith said:

"It is very difficult for us to communicate to the churches all that God has revealed to us, in consequence of tradition; for we [The American Saints Joseph Smith was addressing in Conference] are differently situated from any other people that ever existed upon this earth; [For the first time in the world’s history the “Gentiles,” not the “house of Israel,” had the Gospel restored to them instead of the direct lineage through which the “everlasting covenant” had always been passed down from father to son. See JST Gen 9:20-23; Gen 14:40 ] consequently those former revelations [Like those in 3 Nephi 16, 20, 21 which depict the Lamanites building Zion, the New Jerusalem, with the “assistance” of repentant Gentiles] cannot be suited to our conditions; they were given to other people, [Lehi’s seed, the literal blood of Israel] who were before us; but in the last days, God was to call a remnant, [From Lehi’s seed. See 2 Nephi 3; Romans 11] in which was to be deliverance, [both physical and spiritual. See Ether 13] as well as in Jerusalem and Zion. Now if God should give no more revelations, where will we find Zion and this remnant? [Again tying together “Zion” with the “remnant” of Lehi’ seed. D&C 49:24-25] The time is near when desolation is to cover the earth, and then God will have a place of deliverance in His remnant, and in Zion."

It seems Joseph Smith came to the understanding that Zion and the New Jerusalem is a place of “deliverance” for “His remnant,” Lehi’s seed, the "Lamanites" AFTER the “desolation” which will “cover the earth.” Joseph Smith continues:

“Take away the Book of Mormon (See Romans 3:1-4) and the revelations, and where is our religion? We have none; for without Zion, [The People known as the “remnant,” Lehi’s seed, or the Lamanites] and a place of deliverance, [Missouri] we must fall; ..Then, .. if we are not sanctified [Spiritually] and gathered [Literally and Physically] to the places God has appointed, … we must fall; we cannot stand; we cannot be saved; for God will gather out His Saints from the Gentiles, and then comes desolation and destruction, [of the Gentiles] and none can escape except the [spiritually] pure in heart who are [physically] gathered [out from among the Gentiles].” (History of The Church, vol., 2: p. 52.)

Note too, that to be saved “His Saint’s” must be “gathered out” from among their fellow “Gentiles” before the “desolation and destruction” if they hope to be saved spiritually and temporally. Where we might ask? 3Nephi 16:8-15 tells us that for the Gentiles to be saved they must be "numbered among" Lehi's seed.)

It may be prudent at this point to quickly point out that in the Book of Mormon the term “Gentile” is used most often to describe American citizens living in the “mighty Gentile nation,” (1 Nephi 22:6-8) as well as members of the LDS Church which bring the Book of Mormon to Lehi’s seed. Joseph Smith, having translated the Book of Mormon, knew that even though as members of the LDS Church we may be adopted into the house of Israel, to ALL Book of Mormon authors we as Latter-Day Saints are still “identified with the Gentiles” (See D&C 109:60) Very seldom do Book of Mormon authors make the distinction between the Gentiles “that have come upon the face of this land and scattered my people” (3 Nephi 16:8-9) and the members of the restored Gospel which proclaim their status in the house of Israel through adoption. When Book of Mormon authors speak of the Gentiles which “repent” they use the terms “Saints” or “disciples” but never “adopted members of the house of Israel” nor “repentant Gentiles.” The point here is that we, as Americans, whether members of The Church or not, are still “identified with the Gentiles.” (D&C 109:60) Paul uses the same term, Gentiles, to identify the Christian members he's help convert. (See Romans 11)

Elder Sidney Rigdon followed Joseph’s talk and commented upon the same theme:

“On two points hang all the revelations that have ever been given, and these are the two advents of the Messiah. The first is past, and the second is now just before us; and consequently those who desire a part in this era which the angels desired to look into, have to be assembled with the Saints; for if they are not gathered, they must wail because of His coming. …, for the ancient Saints [The house of Jacob, Lehi's seed] will reign with Christ a thousand years. (Romans 11) The gathered Saints [repentant Gentiles] will dwell under that reign, [of Lehi’s seed, 3 Nephi 16, 20, 21] and these who are not gathered may expect to endure His wrath (a word lik to the King of Assyria. See Isa. 10) that length of time; for the rest of the dead are not to live till the thousand years are ended.
(History of The Church, vol., 2: pg. 52 - 53.)

Why did the Gentile saints fail in their attempt to build Zion? For one, Zion isn’t theirs to build. The “ancient Saints,” specifically Lehi’s seed, will build the New Jerusalem, with the “assistance” of the repentant Gentiles, not visa versa. (See 3 Nephi 16: 8 – 15; 3 Nephi 20: 13-16, 21-22; 3 Nephi 21: 13 - 24) Also the timing was not right, note Joseph Smith’s statement, “God will gather out His Saints from the Gentiles, and then comes desolation and destruction.” Although the Saints felt they were gathered out “from the Gentiles” by moving to the borders of America, the “Indian territory,” the time for the “desolation and destructionof the Gentiles (Paul calls this the fulness of the times of the Gentiles in Romans 11) was still to come.

So, What is the Tower? I have no idea...but I do know this. We did not build it, and thus will suffer the consiquences, unless we are "gathered out" and become "numbered among" Lehi's seed.

Proud 2b Peculiar
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Post by Proud 2b Peculiar »

So, those that are told in the PB that they were born of the tribes of Ephraim or Manasseh have the responsibility to build? Or if they know that they are literal blood descendants for example?

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Darren
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Post by Darren »

Proud 2b Peculiar,

When you and I rebuild Zion, will it be because we have the blood of our Native American ancestry flowing in our veins, or because we have learned the Law of God from our Anglo-Saxon ancestry?

You and I have these two attributes, being of Anglo-Saxon/Native American decent.

Perhaps both.

Darren

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shadow
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I believe it will be those who have taken on the name of Christ.

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Post by Proud 2b Peculiar »

Darren wrote:Proud 2b Peculiar,

When you and I rebuild Zion, will it be because we have the blood of our Native American ancestry flowing in our veins, or because we have learned the Law of God from our Anglo-Saxon ancestry?

You and I have these two attributes, being of Anglo-Saxon/Native American decent.

Perhaps both.

Darren
My father recently found even more Native American blood then we originally thought in another completely different tribe. That makes 4 tribes for me and one for my husband. Not speaking of different Israelite tribes.

I couldn't help but feel some special feelings about building Zion during conference. The spirit testified of so many things. The children as well... protecting them. My PB says a great deal about what I need to do with teaching the Children of Zion and leading the Children of Israel. What I am trying to figure out is why it is worded like there are two groups?

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Post by Proud 2b Peculiar »

And I would have to agree that it is both because of coming to a knowledge of our fathers and the truth that they knew is the law.

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Post by Proud 2b Peculiar »

shadow wrote:I believe it will be those who have taken on the name of Christ.
Anyone who truly does that is Israel. The people. That is part of the change that takes place. They are then Israelites in a Gentile nation.

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Post by DayofAwakening »

Remember the WATCH Tower was to cost money and was to be built high enough to look round the land of America to see the enemy coming. The watch tower was never built. We didn't see the clandestine bankers steal the fruits of our labor and enslave us with burdensome taxes and propelled us into wars and death and destruction. We didn't see when the secret combinations took over the Presidency or the 'Chief Judgment seat' of the land and other high positions in government. We didn't see when the enemy took over the industries of American, Gold, oil, Mining, coal, etc. We didn't watch as these secret Gadiatons took over the Medical, Health, Dental industries to make money off our misery. (1 out of 2 men in America will get cancer in their life times. think of it).The Enemy got through our hedges because we didn't see them coming. There was no watch tower to see with. It was never built. This is why I believe it was suppose to be a broadcast tower that reported the important news that they saw in American and could warn the people. But it was too expensive in there eyes. So they invested in Babylon and the money changers and loss this great chance to keep what the Lord bought with his money. Then the lord says that he will gather his young men, his middle age men and all the residue of his people to take it back. Take back the Constitution, tear down the gigantic fascist companies that are built up as a light but are only interested in monetary gain at any cost, tear down the news towers of lies with the Sword of the Spirit and Truth! Tear down the oppressive unelected organizations that enslave and corrupt our fair Sons and Daughters. Tear down the war machines and beat swords into pruning hooks and plows! Fill the world with light and truth. Now is the time, now is the Awakening, now we shall go forth and build Zion! Oh Babylon O Babylon, we bid thee farewell!

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I'm more concerned about the 12 olive trees. What does that mean? I hope that doesn't mean our Priesthood leadership gets destroyed (not so much that we destroy keys but nonetheless).

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Post by Proud 2b Peculiar »

I thought that it might have meant that the 12 tribes are scattered....

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Post by DayofAwakening »

the 12 olive trees were the 12 stakes to be built back in Zions Camp. I'm pretty sure The 12 olive trees is representative of the church as a whole in our times.

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Lek Leka
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Proud 2be P: Ephraim and Manasseh: Ismael was from Ephraim, as per Joseph Smith. Lehi was Manasseh. Here is a fun exercise. Take 3N16, 20, 21; 1N22; D&C 86 and use two highlighters. One for every word that deals with the Gentiles, another color for Lehi’s seed. Now read D&C 49:24-25. Note that the term Gentile is used for both the LDS who bring the BofM to Lehi’s seed, (also D&C 109:60 and Romans 11:13) as well as the mighty Gentile nation (1N22:6-8) that will be “utterly destroyed.” Also take note that 6 times in the BofM the Gentiles are told that if they expect to be saved they must be “numbered among” not “with” Lehi’s seed. (1N14:2; 2N10:19; Eter 13:10; 3N16:13; 3N21:1,6)

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What is it that you are implying about being numbered "among" not "with" Lehi's seed? Does this mean we have to move to Mexico? There are plenty of Lehi's seed living in Arizona and Los Angeles. I certainly don't want to be in Los Angeles, one of the first places to be nuked. There are plenty of indications about the desert and mountains being the place of refuge for the righteous as Babylon gets destroyed, but I didn't pick up the fact that it will have to be with the Lehites at the outset of troubles. We know we will all be numbered together at New Jerusalem. Although your scriptural proofs are intriguing, would it also not be imprudent to wait for the Brethren to give us further light and knowledge on where we should gather? I think that there will be many places to gather to safety in the United States as well as in Latin America as well as in the rest of the world. We cannot expect them to all go Utah or Mexico. I have not found anything definite in the scriptures that tell me exactly where to go. I possibly need to study more, no doubt, but there are very valiant folks that will need some guidance to safety through his mouthpiece, the prophet.

Now, I do think that Latin America will be a safer place to be in WWIII, but not necessarily Mexico, which is supposed to be a major invasion center for the southern army (China) and part of the North America Union if you follow the vision and dreams out there about WWIII. Some of the invaders that ally with Assyria will be Latin Americans (think Venezuala). I would think Chile would be one of the safest places to be.

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Post by buffalo_girl »

White folks (Gentiles (?)) tend to consider themselves superior to most other folks on the planet; even white members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints get caught up in their sense of importance as the 'bringers of blessings' to ALL the other scattered tribes.

As I read it, the 'remnant of Jacob' - mixed Jaredites, Nephites, & Lamanites - predating the rest of us who came over after Columbus are the rightful heirs to this land. 3Nephi 20:14 14 And the Father hath commanded me that I should give unto you this land, for your inheritance.
15 And I say unto you, that if the Gentiles do not repent after the blessing which they shall receive, after they have scattered my people—
16 Then shall ye, who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them; and ye shall be in the midst of them who shall be many; and ye shall be among them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, and as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he goeth through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.


I'm not sure about the Jaredites having 'mixed' with anyone else although I do have an LDS friend whose ancestry is nearly pure Native American and her 'tribal designation' is "of Royal Blood". The rest of us are pretty much living on this continent on a 'trial basis' through the Grace of God according to our worthiness regardless of which 'tribe' we are designated.

Would the Resurrected Lord 'give this land' to the Gentiles as their inheritance after having bequeathed it to those who stood in His presence when he declared "The Father hath commanded me that I should give unto you this land, for your inheritance."?
3 Nephi 21

22 But if they (Gentiles on this land) will repent and hearken unto my words, and harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them, and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land for their inheritance;
23 And they shall assist my people, the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem.
24 And then shall they assist my people that they may be gathered in, who are scattered upon all the face of the land, in unto the New Jerusalem.
As converted, humble followers of Christ we will ASSIST the rightful heirs of this land in the building of and in gathering in the Lord's scattered people unto the New Jerusalem.

All that being said...Ezekiel may offer insight into how we will be required to regard one another - both as 'this people' and as 'gentiles' - according to our worthiness to remain upon the land.

We may be witnessing a "sheep from the goats" principle in regard to this discussion. It really doesn't matter what designation if we are converted to the Lord's WORK and are good and faithful servants in that effort. We are each precious in His sight.
Ezekiel 47:21-23
21 So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel.
22 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
23 And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord God.

Proud 2b Peculiar
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Post by Proud 2b Peculiar »

maybe it is because of accepting the gospel, or maybe it is because of my Native American ancestry, but when I read the Book of Mormon, I feel those promises being spoken to my heart, that they are promises given to me if I continue to live worthy of those promises.

I at times feel that I am part of the young lions among the gentile flock, but that I am not part that will slay the wicked, but I will and do reveal the hidden things of darkness.

buffalo_girl
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Post by buffalo_girl »

I at times feel that I am part of the young lions among the gentile flock, but that I am not part that will slay the wicked, but I will and do reveal the hidden things of darkness.
The paradigm is shifting. I'll be just as pleased to have TRUTH revealed from the lips of Native Americans as from those of European ancestry.

Many white South Africans left the Church when the Priesthood was extended to all worthy males. The wheat continues to be winnowed from the chaff.

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Lek Leka
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Re: Parable of the Tower in D&C 101 & Constitution by a Thread..

Post by Lek Leka »

PjBrownie: What is it that you are implying about being numbered "among" not "with" Lehi's seed?
I don’t know, honestly. I was sitting in the Veracruz temple one day pondering why my father is so upset that I’ve taken his granddaughters to Mexico, when I heard the words… “I said ‘among’ not ‘with’ on purpose.” I’d never noticed the difference, and if it had not been against protocol I’d have left the room I was in to find a BofM. When I did I was stunned. But you are right, I can think of many other places, other than Mexico that would be safer and Chile is one of them. I was NOT told to move to Mexico…I chose to do so.

PjBrownie: would it also not be imprudent to wait for the Brethren to give us further light and knowledge on where we should gather?
You aren’t the first to pose that question to me. I’ve spent a lot of time reading Alma through 3N to look for patterns. The Nephites during this period, like the Americans, had 4 things I’ve not found in any other nation in the earth’s post flood history. 1. Separation between church and state. 2. Fullness of the Gospel. 3. A prophet living in the land. 4. Voice of the people decides the laws. During that period of time, not once do we find the prophet telling the people to flee. What they do tell the people to do is “repent.” Even Nephi’s brother leaves to go North, but Nephi stays the course in the land with the Nephites.

Buffalo_Girl: As converted, humble followers of Christ we (Gentiles) will ASSIST the rightful heirs of this land in the building of and in gathering in the Lord's scattered people unto the New Jerusalem.
Nice supposition my friend, but it seems to run counter to Jesus’ supposition in the same discourse (3N16, 20, 21). Usually “IF” “THEN” suppositions in the scriptures runs like this. “If” you are good, “then” I will bless you. “IF” you are bad, “then” I will punish you. But with the American Gentiles the supposition is they must repent. Of what? Being “lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth,” AND mentioned twice “rejecting the fullness of the Gospel” i.e. the Book of Mormon. (D&C 27:5) How do you reject something that you don’t have? Who is the “Salt of the earth” spoken of in 3N16:15? (See D&C 101:39-40; 103:10) Temple endowed members! Ouch. And what are they guilty of? Everything in 3N16:10.

Also a close reading of Nephi and Jesus would put the “gathering” of the scattered remnants AFTER the “mighty Gentile nation” (1N22:6-8) is destroyed. It’s a fun exercise to read 1N13, 14, 22, and 3N20, 21 and make a timeline. The “marvelous work and a wonder,” which seems to be the the gathering of the scattered remnant - not the “restoration of the gospel” - does NOT occur until AFTER the destruction of the mighty Gentile nation, that “came upon the face of this land and scattered my people” (3N16:8-9) according to Nephi (1N13-15, 22) and Jesus (3N20, 21).

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