Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after all

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
Locked
freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by freedomforall »

Fort Nine wrote:freedom: I respect you stance, and I'm not arguing against paying tithing on a larger amount. The more you give, the more generous and charitable you are, the larger the sacrifice, and the more blessings you may receive. I get the way it works. I'm disagreeing with the notion that 10% of your "interest" should include a calculation for money never given to you.
You mean like money the government takes as taxes each pay period? I had a big problem with that at one time. I argued, ranted and swore I'd never pay tithing for such reason. It was a witness by the spirit that turned me around. We know that everything evil comes from the Devil, and everything good comes from Christ, right? No matter how minute it is, either persuasion comes from one of those sources. Therefore, Satan wouldn't tell us to pay more tithing when he'd rather you didn't...he loves disobedience, not obedience to God's laws and statutes. The difference, for me anyway, between a non perfect or a perfect tithing...net or gross...came by way of a blessing. And I knew in my soul that it meant gross, not net. But this is my experience. Others can do as they wish. I'm just glad God was merciful enough to set me on the right track. I remember a verse that tells us to be humble and teachable. This experience was a test for me to be teachable.

User avatar
creator
(of the Forum)
Posts: 8240
Location: The Matrix
Contact:

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by creator »

One time I lived in a country where they taxed 90% of my income and some LDS' were saying I should pay tithing on gross, which left me with $0.00 (90% went to the government, 10% to the Church). I died of starvation shortly thereafter.

User avatar
drjme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1270
Location: Middle Earth

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by drjme »

freedomfighter wrote:
AussieOi wrote:Do you understand what drjme is saying when he says god doesn't want 10%...he wants everything!
What he wants is a willing mind, those who are willing to give all they possess if called upon to do so. We covenant to do just that in the temple. God owns everything we have anyway. If people don't want to pay a full tithe, then how and why would they even consider giving all? The difference between net and gross is one thing, but "giving all" one has? We'll here people saying "gee, I can't do that. You're asking too much of me. I won't do it. It is all mine, I earned it. What about the people that get caught up in a tsunami, or a huge earthquake, or a tornado...or any number of other disasters that can happen...and they get wiped out? They lose everything.
Doesn't the same attitude of retention apply for those only willing to pay tithing on their net, or if at all?
It's about living in a way where you present all you have to Him first. Not just 10% of net or gross. it doesn't mean you give away 100% every week, it means you come before Him and recognise that we are stewards over what He has blessed us with and that we act accordingly and impart where He requests. Remember when we seek the kingdom first,everything is added unto us. It's about saying Lord I trust you with all that is "mine".

Sometimes you will be impressed or shown, to give or to do something that is a big ask and that may 'scare' you. The aim is to keep The Lord above all things you focus on, think of it as a list or a heirachy that gets rearranged according to what our focus is on with God moving up and down the list according to whatever problem or fear has our focus. We aim to keep Him firmly at the top, that no problem or issue or thing being asked of us is bigger than Him or above Him.
The story of Elijah and the widow is often used for tithing, and I disagree with this. I believe it has more to do with consecration. God directs her, to do a massively scary thing, to give ALL that she has to survive on, to A Man that will turn up.
The Man turns and as God said, asks for bread, But He also offers her a immediate and amazing Miracle in exchange for her giving All she has. She is giving it to God (the record says God directed her prior to him arriving), Not necessarily Elijah, and the record says, as she gave all she Had she received an immediate and powerful miracle and never ran out of flour or oil until the drought ended.

How I try and think about is all of it is from Him, so I want to be wiser with what it is used for. Since He has ultimate wisdom, He will know what's best.
-10% (what tithe means. you can't pay a 20% tithe, and whether you see that as net or surplus doesn't bother me) goes to a church to help them function.
-Offerings, can go to the church but don't have to, you get more out of it if you actively seek people out who need help.
-whatever is left is entrusted to God directly, for us to steward over. It doesn't mean being a Scrooge and living in poverty, it means putting our trust in Him first, and being open to being directed by Him to step out as He asks us to.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by freedomforall »

drjme wrote:
freedomfighter wrote:
AussieOi wrote:Do you understand what drjme is saying when he says god doesn't want 10%...he wants everything!
What he wants is a willing mind, those who are willing to give all they possess if called upon to do so. We covenant to do just that in the temple. God owns everything we have anyway. If people don't want to pay a full tithe, then how and why would they even consider giving all? The difference between net and gross is one thing, but "giving all" one has? We'll here people saying "gee, I can't do that. You're asking too much of me. I won't do it. It is all mine, I earned it. What about the people that get caught up in a tsunami, or a huge earthquake, or a tornado...or any number of other disasters that can happen...and they get wiped out? They lose everything.
Doesn't the same attitude of retention apply for those only willing to pay tithing on their net, or if at all?
It's about living in a way where you present all you have to Him first. Not just 10% of net or gross. it doesn't mean you give away 100% every week, it means you come before Him and recognise that we are stewards over what He has blessed us with and that we act accordingly and impart where He requests. Remember when we seek the kingdom first,everything is added unto us. It's about saying Lord I trust you with all that is "mine".

Sometimes you will be impressed or shown, to give or to do something that is a big ask and that may 'scare' you. The aim is to keep The Lord above all things you focus on, think of it as a list or a heirachy that gets rearranged according to what our focus is on with God moving up and down the list according to whatever problem or fear has our focus. We aim to keep Him firmly at the top, that no problem or issue or thing being asked of us is bigger than Him or above Him.
The story of Elijah and the widow is often used for tithing, and I disagree with this. I believe it has more to do with consecration. God directs her, to do a massively scary thing, to give ALL that she has to survive on, to A Man that will turn up.
The Man turns and as God said, asks for bread, But He also offers her a immediate and amazing Miracle in exchange for her giving All she has. She is giving it to God (the record says God directed her prior to him arriving), Not necessarily Elijah, and the record says, as she gave all she Had she received an immediate and powerful miracle and never ran out of flour or oil until the drought ended.

How I try and think about is all of it is from Him, so I want to be wiser with what it is used for. Since He has ultimate wisdom, He will know what's best.
-10% (what tithe means. you can't pay a 20% tithe, and whether you see that as net or surplus doesn't bother me) goes to a church to help them function.
-Offerings, can go to the church but don't have to, you get more out of it if you actively seek people out who need help.
-whatever is left is entrusted to God directly, for us to steward over. It doesn't mean being a Scrooge and living in poverty, it means putting our trust in Him first, and being open to being directed by Him to step out as He asks us to.
So eloquent. :-BD

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by freedomforall »

BrianM wrote:One time I lived in a country where they taxed 90% of my income and some LDS' were saying I should pay tithing on gross, which left me with $0.00 (90% went to the government, 10% to the Church). I died of starvation shortly thereafter.
So that's why they made a movie called "The Walking Dead" revised? :D

AGStacker
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1270

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by AGStacker »

Tithing is "interest annually". Not income. Stop quoting presidents who do not supersede God's law established through the Prophet Joseph Smith in section 119.

We had the lesson yesterday and not once was section 119 read from until I mentioned that it contained the explanation of what tithing was used for. In fact when I said so the teacher asked where that information was found?! I said "the law of tithing". He said "where's that"? I said "section 119".

Don't you see we follow the manual and not the scriptures?! Literally, we didn't once open up section 119 until I mentioned it. I don't have the heart/courage to tell the Elders we aren't following the law correctly 1) because I think those with weak testimonies may be affected and 2) that it will create contention. I don't know what else to do.

User avatar
AussieOi
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6137
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by AussieOi »

Maybe say you have friends who pay on surplus and you've looked into it and can't find a reason they aren't correct.

If the cog. diss isn't too deep maybe they will ask more?

Penstress
captain of 100
Posts: 106
Location: Texas

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by Penstress »

AGStacker wrote:Tithing is "interest annually". Not income. Stop quoting presidents who do not supersede God's law established through the Prophet Joseph Smith in section 119.

We had the lesson yesterday and not once was section 119 read from until I mentioned that it contained the explanation of what tithing was used for. In fact when I said so the teacher asked where that information was found?! I said "the law of tithing". He said "where's that"? I said "section 119".

Don't you see we follow the manual and not the scriptures?! Literally, we didn't once open up section 119 until I mentioned it. I don't have the heart/courage to tell the Elders we aren't following the law correctly 1) because I think those with weak testimonies may be affected and 2) that it will create contention. I don't know what else to do.

Like this post. :ymapplause:

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by freedomforall »

Penstress wrote:
AGStacker wrote:Tithing is "interest annually". Not income. Stop quoting presidents who do not supersede God's law established through the Prophet Joseph Smith in section 119.

We had the lesson yesterday and not once was section 119 read from until I mentioned that it contained the explanation of what tithing was used for. In fact when I said so the teacher asked where that information was found?! I said "the law of tithing". He said "where's that"? I said "section 119".

Don't you see we follow the manual and not the scriptures?! Literally, we didn't once open up section 119 until I mentioned it. I don't have the heart/courage to tell the Elders we aren't following the law correctly 1) because I think those with weak testimonies may be affected and 2) that it will create contention. I don't know what else to do.

Like this post. :ymapplause:
If any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of God....

Penstress
captain of 100
Posts: 106
Location: Texas

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by Penstress »

freedomfighter wrote:
Penstress wrote:
AGStacker wrote:Tithing is "interest annually". Not income. Stop quoting presidents who do not supersede God's law established through the Prophet Joseph Smith in section 119.

We had the lesson yesterday and not once was section 119 read from until I mentioned that it contained the explanation of what tithing was used for. In fact when I said so the teacher asked where that information was found?! I said "the law of tithing". He said "where's that"? I said "section 119".

Don't you see we follow the manual and not the scriptures?! Literally, we didn't once open up section 119 until I mentioned it. I don't have the heart/courage to tell the Elders we aren't following the law correctly 1) because I think those with weak testimonies may be affected and 2) that it will create contention. I don't know what else to do.

Like this post. :ymapplause:
If any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of God....
I did!! And I got surprising wisdom. I'm at peace with this revelation. I know it's right. Surplus. Shockingly..... Surplus.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by freedomforall »

Penstress wrote:
Penstress wrote:
AGStacker wrote:Tithing is "interest annually". Not income. Stop quoting presidents who do not supersede God's law established through the Prophet Joseph Smith in section 119.

We had the lesson yesterday and not once was section 119 read from until I mentioned that it contained the explanation of what tithing was used for. In fact when I said so the teacher asked where that information was found?! I said "the law of tithing". He said "where's that"? I said "section 119".

Don't you see we follow the manual and not the scriptures?! Literally, we didn't once open up section 119 until I mentioned it. I don't have the heart/courage to tell the Elders we aren't following the law correctly 1) because I think those with weak testimonies may be affected and 2) that it will create contention. I don't know what else to do.

Like this post. :ymapplause:

I did!! And I got surprising wisdom. I'm at peace with this revelation. I know it's right. Surplus. Shockingly..... Surplus.
So what do you pay, a nickel for every ten spot?

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by freedomforall »

D&C 119:4,5
4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.
5 Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of Zion shall be tithed of their surplus properties, and shall observe this law, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you.


I looked up the word "interest" to see if I could come up with a definition that could closely define the churches idea of what one/tenth is.

Here is what I found:

Interest...a legal share, right, or title, as in the ownership of property or in a business undertaking.

To me, all that we own, our property, if you will...is our interest. Therefore, conversely, interest is everything we own. Since everything we own usually is paid for out of our earnings, in which, earnings is also our property, our interest...we pay ten% out of our interest or earnings.

Do any other definitions fit?

1. a feeling of having one's attention, concern, or curiosity particularly engaged by something: She has an interest in architecture.
2. something that arouses such feelings; something in which one is interested: Chess is his only interest.
3. the power to excite such feelings; quality of being interesting: a subject that holds little interest for me.
4. concern or importance: a matter of primary interest.
5. a business, cause, etc., in which a person has a share, concern, or responsibility.
6. a legal share, right, or title, as in the ownership of property or in a business undertaking.
7. participation in a cause or in advantage or responsibility.
8. Often, interests. a group exerting influence on and often financially involved in an enterprise, industry, or sphere of activity.
9. the state of being affected by something in respect to advantage or detriment.
10. Often, interests. benefit; advantage: We have your best interests in mind.
11. regard for one's own advantage or profit; self-interest.
12. influence due to personal importance or capability.
13.
a. a sum paid or charged for the use of money or for borrowing money.
b. such a sum expressed as a percentage of the amount borrowed to be paid over a given period, usu. one year.
14. something added or thrown in above an exact equivalent: He returned the insult with interest.
v.t.
15. to engage or excite the attention or curiosity of.
16. to concern (a person, nation, etc.) in something; involve.
17. to cause to take a personal concern or share; induce to participate.

Ya? Nay?

Penstress
captain of 100
Posts: 106
Location: Texas

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by Penstress »

I did!! And I got surprising wisdom. I'm at peace with this revelation. I know it's right. Surplus. Shockingly..... Surplus.[/quote]
So what do you pay, a nickel for every ten spot?[/quote]

Yup!! It's great because I have great peace. Lots to help the poor...unlike before. More on my debts.... Makes clearer sense to me than any false beliefs I had previously that kept me unable to help the poor or get outa debt. I'll finally be debt free in six months. More for the poor and an increase in surplus so my tithes go up. now that makes sense.

Funny.... My BFF was praying about me and tithing because I judged her being unable to pay. I did throw my self righteous judgements out there.... And didnt know she was asking the lord to teach me about tithing. That's when I learned of it. Had no clue someone was praying for me. Crazzzzy.... She was paying ten percent, the asking the bishop for it back. Over and over and over again. Rediculous!!!!!! All while living in a homeless shelter!!!!! That's utter nonsense!!!!!

I was shouting pay ten percent, ten percent income. Why?? Because if I had to pay ten grand last year she better pay her 3k !! It's not fair!! I was a jerk. Now I have wisdom. ANd now..... She does too.

Judge if you want, I don't care what the hell you think. I know I'm right. I have total peace about it. Absolute clarity...

User avatar
AussieOi
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6137
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by AussieOi »

freedomfighter wrote:D&C 119:4,5
4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.
5 Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of Zion shall be tithed of their surplus properties, and shall observe this law, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you.


I looked up the word "interest" to see if I could come up with a definition that could closely define the churches idea of what one/tenth is.

Here is what I found:

Interest...a legal share, right, or title, as in the ownership of property or in a business undertaking.
Ya? Nay?


Nay, and you know why too so I'm not going to quote about the 7th sentence on page 1 of this thread, which was the 1828 definition of Interest

The pertinent definitions provided by Webster's 1828 inform us that it is a "share; portion; part; any surplus advantage." There's that word surplus again. It turns out that Interest is practically synonymous with surplus. As is also the meaning of increase.

But personally, I think this explains what Joseph Smith had in mind when he delivered the law of tithing


Covenant of Tithing

Section Two 1834-37, p.70

"On the evening of the 29th of November, I united in prayer with Brother Oliver for the continuance of blessings. After giving thanks for the relief which the Lord had lately sent us by opening the hearts of the brethren from the east, to loan us $430; after commencing and rejoicing before the Lord on this occasion, we agreed to enter into the following covenant with the Lord, viz:

That if the Lord will prosper us in our business and open the way before us that we may obtain means to pay our debts, that we be not troubled nor brought into disrepute before the world, nor His people; after that, of all that He shall give unto us, we will give a tenth to be bestowed upon the poor in His Church, or as He shall command; and that we will be faithful over that which he has entrusted to our care, that we may obtain much; and that our children after us shall remember to observe this sacred and holy covenant; and that our children, and our children's children, may know of the same, we have subscribed our names with our own hands." (TPJS, pg 70).

User avatar
AussieOi
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6137
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by AussieOi »

Penstress wrote:Judge if you want, I don't care what the hell you think. I know I'm right. I have total peace about it. Absolute clarity...

thata great story Penstress

I really respect your ability to turn around and say that

i wonder where I am in my life that in a year I'll be able to say "i was such a fool too"

Hopefully I will be able to say that, then

Yes, clarity.
It just...makes...sense

Christ doesn't want to punish us, or make our families go without

It is completely antithetical to what we ar taught he was

plus that story of going back and forth, give, ask, give, ask, its just so inefficient and illogical

we discussed it in about page 5, drjme said it well,, the trick is to not let it become easier (not that giving of surplus for families especially is ever going to be easy), but still make it such that the giving of offerings still has to be that sacrifice, of something

i can't begin to express how i wish people who are fastidious in the extreme interpretation could experince the feeling that participating in the giving of offerings is

to seek out someone to help, to help them, directly, anonymously, or via a 3rd party like a charity

or just give it

like drjme and the car, or the Cow his father in law gave

i mean a cow! how whack is that. but thats how it is

it isn't the money, money is just a medium of exchange

god doesnt want our money

tithing is about money

god wants our all, to help others

but we don't need to make our families suffer, or go without necessities

Thats what Paul in 2 Corinthians 8 is all about, why its so clear

13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:

14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by freedomforall »

Penstress wrote:I did!! And I got surprising wisdom. I'm at peace with this revelation. I know it's right. Surplus. Shockingly..... Surplus.
So what do you pay, a nickel for every ten spot?[/quote]

Yup!! It's great because I have great peace. Lots to help the poor...unlike before. More on my debts.... Makes clearer sense to me than any false beliefs I had previously that kept me unable to help the poor or get outa debt. I'll finally be debt free in six months. More for the poor and an increase in surplus so my tithes go up. now that makes sense.

Funny.... My BFF was praying about me and tithing because I judged her being unable to pay. I did throw my self righteous judgements out there.... And didnt know she was asking the lord to teach me about tithing. That's when I learned of it. Had no clue someone was praying for me. Crazzzzy.... She was paying ten percent, the asking the bishop for it back. Over and over and over again. Rediculous!!!!!! All while living in a homeless shelter!!!!! That's utter nonsense!!!!!

I was shouting pay ten percent, ten percent income. Why?? Because if I had to pay ten grand last year she better pay her 3k !! It's not fair!! I was a jerk. Now I have wisdom. ANd now..... She does too.

Judge if you want, I don't care what the hell you think. I know I'm right. I have total peace about it. Absolute clarity...[/quote]

I guess you're so happy you had to cuss because of the agony inside your soul. And whose judging? Actually, I'm happy for you. It is God that looks upon the heart, not I. I just have to put up with people cussing and ranting. God says, "let us reason together" but us humans have lost the knack of it. Now we let Satan drive our thoughts. I can't believe how many posters we now have on the forum that seem to thrive on causing discord. But I guess it makes perfect sense if one doesn't think about it.

kathedralegs
captain of 100
Posts: 260

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by kathedralegs »

FF what is your motivation for posting so heavily on every single tithing thread? And feeling the need to start your own? Is it because you have love and concern for your fellow saints? Or is it because you want to be right? Or are there other reasons? We are all at different levels of learning. The spirit teaches truth and that can be different for each individual depending on their level of understanding and knowledge.

User avatar
drjme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1270
Location: Middle Earth

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by drjme »

freedomfighter wrote: I guess you're so happy you had to cuss because of the agony inside your soul. And whose judging? Actually, I'm happy for you. It is God that looks upon the heart, not I. I just have to put up with people cussing and ranting. God says, "let us reason together" but us humans have lost the knack of it. Now we let Satan drive our thoughts. I can't believe how many posters we now have on the forum that seem to thrive on causing discord. But I guess it makes perfect sense if one doesn't think about it.
cmon FF let go of the Hobby ;) Dont judge other people on a standard that you set for yourself.
you know there is enough scriptural evidence to take it as surplus, and much modern commentary to take it as on gross. If you believe it is best for you to pay on gross, that's great. I believe it is tithes on surplus, but I don't give on surplus, I give more, and I don't keep track of it, so maybe I pay on gross? I don't know, and I don't care for the figure, It's not about the figure it's about the heart.

We shouldn't pay tithes because we seek blessings in return, that's like prepaid blessings/blessings on layby. We should give tithes because we want to support the church we go to, because we agree with the message and want to aid in the spreading and sustaining of that message. Thats really all tithes are for.

User avatar
A Random Phrase
Follower of Christ
Posts: 6468
Location: Staring at my computer, not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by A Random Phrase »

AussieOi wrote:Mate you get it!

Do you understand what drjme is saying when he says god doesn't want 10%...he wants everything!

And the Pharisees living the "perfect tithe" but missing the point.

And widows mite.

You have to connect the dots from consecration, which failed, to tithing, and its very simple objective.

Its just a law to pay those bills and fund the church.

Its our OFFERINGS, that's as much The celestial law

And its on by paying the simple, intended
Yep.

God requires everything we have and are - to be willing to sacrifice everything to Him, holding nothing back.

User avatar
A Random Phrase
Follower of Christ
Posts: 6468
Location: Staring at my computer, not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by A Random Phrase »

BrianM wrote:One time I lived in a country where they taxed 90% of my income and some LDS' were saying I should pay tithing on gross, which left me with $0.00 (90% went to the government, 10% to the Church). I died of starvation shortly thereafter.

=((

I'm so sad you died. :((

O:-)

Penstress
captain of 100
Posts: 106
Location: Texas

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by Penstress »

freedomfighter wrote:
Penstress wrote:I did!! And I got surprising wisdom. I'm at peace with this revelation. I know it's right. Surplus. Shockingly..... Surplus.
So what do you pay, a nickel for every ten spot?
Yup!! It's great because I have great peace. Lots to help the poor...unlike before. More on my debts.... Makes clearer sense to me than any false beliefs I had previously that kept me unable to help the poor or get outa debt. I'll finally be debt free in six months. More for the poor and an increase in surplus so my tithes go up. now that makes sense.

Funny.... My BFF was praying about me and tithing because I judged her being unable to pay. I did throw my self righteous judgements out there.... And didnt know she was asking the lord to teach me about tithing. That's when I learned of it. Had no clue someone was praying for me. Crazzzzy.... She was paying ten percent, the asking the bishop for it back. Over and over and over again. Rediculous!!!!!! All while living in a homeless shelter!!!!! That's utter nonsense!!!!!

I was shouting pay ten percent, ten percent income. Why?? Because if I had to pay ten grand last year she better pay her 3k !! It's not fair!! I was a jerk. Now I have wisdom. ANd now..... She does too.

Judge if you want, I don't care what the hell you think. I know I'm right. I have total peace about it. Absolute clarity...[/quote]

I guess you're so happy you had to cuss because of the agony inside your soul. And whose judging? Actually, I'm happy for you. It is God that looks upon the heart, not I. I just have to put up with people cussing and ranting. God says, "let us reason together" but us humans have lost the knack of it. Now we let Satan drive our thoughts. I can't believe how many posters we now have on the forum that seem to thrive on causing discord. But I guess it makes perfect sense if one doesn't think about it.[/quote]

Hell is in the scriptures.... Read it almost daily. If that is the biggest thing you have to worry about then.... Rock on Brotha.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by freedomforall »

Penstress wrote:
freedomfighter wrote:
Penstress wrote:I did!! And I got surprising wisdom. I'm at peace with this revelation. I know it's right. Surplus. Shockingly..... Surplus.
So what do you pay, a nickel for every ten spot?
Yup!! It's great because I have great peace. Lots to help the poor...unlike before. More on my debts.... Makes clearer sense to me than any false beliefs I had previously that kept me unable to help the poor or get outa debt. I'll finally be debt free in six months. More for the poor and an increase in surplus so my tithes go up. now that makes sense.

Funny.... My BFF was praying about me and tithing because I judged her being unable to pay. I did throw my self righteous judgements out there.... And didnt know she was asking the lord to teach me about tithing. That's when I learned of it. Had no clue someone was praying for me. Crazzzzy.... She was paying ten percent, the asking the bishop for it back. Over and over and over again. Rediculous!!!!!! All while living in a homeless shelter!!!!! That's utter nonsense!!!!!

I was shouting pay ten percent, ten percent income. Why?? Because if I had to pay ten grand last year she better pay her 3k !! It's not fair!! I was a jerk. Now I have wisdom. ANd now..... She does too.

Judge if you want, I don't care what the hell you think. I know I'm right. I have total peace about it. Absolute clarity...
I guess you're so happy you had to cuss because of the agony inside your soul. And whose judging? Actually, I'm happy for you. It is God that looks upon the heart, not I. I just have to put up with people cussing and ranting. God says, "let us reason together" but us humans have lost the knack of it. Now we let Satan drive our thoughts. I can't believe how many posters we now have on the forum that seem to thrive on causing discord. But I guess it makes perfect sense if one doesn't think about it.[/quote]

Hell is in the scriptures.... Read it almost daily. If that is the biggest thing you have to worry about then.... Rock on Brotha.[/quote]
What do you think of hell?

I do rock on:


But I have a hard time Towing the line:


Sometimes I can help someone:


But eventually I get crazy from people giving me a bad time:



I'm just glad I'm not DOA:


But maybe I could meet Big Joe:


And then someone on earth could ask "please send me an angel":



Most of all, I remember that love hurts:


So maybe I'll just lay low and skip a rope:


Or I could take a peek at the lady on the billboard:


And become a lonesome fugitive:


And always be looking in the rear view mirror:


And ask myself:

Penstress
captain of 100
Posts: 106
Location: Texas

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by Penstress »

I think you're a bored nut job.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by freedomforall »

Penstress wrote:I think you're a bored nut job.
Thanks for the kind words. May they be recorded in heaven for a reminder of your kindness.

User avatar
AussieOi
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6137
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after

Post by AussieOi »

Penstress wrote:I think you're a bored nut job.

Superfluous/ redundant comment really

Locked