last days scenario

[jcricket6048captain of 100]

do any of you feel that you are going to see the last days come upon us and think that you will be a part of this last days scenario?

[durangoutcaptain of 1,000]

That's a big 10-4 good buddy.

[Melissacaptain of 100]

I do believe so.

I firmly believe that those who are sensitive to the spirit and are able to discern already know how close things are. I have no doubt that life as we know it or have known it has already changed to the point of now its gaining speed on the downhill.

Those with their eyes open will see many great things. There are many scary events that will occur, as depicted in the scriptures, but we must realize that there are many great things that will occur and we are privaledged to not only witness it in our life time but to be a part of it.

I feel that we were prepared for these times we live in and we need not fear. (I know, eaiser said than done).

[7cylon7captain of 1,000]

That's a big 10-4 good buddy.

+1

[sadie_Mormoncaptain of 1,000]

No doubt.

[kathyncaptain of 1,000]

I've always felt that I would be here for many of the winding-up scenes. At my age, it's less likely for me, but still very much in the realm of possibility. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not....If I can still be of value, I'd like to be here. But if my health or age would prevent my being useful, I'd just as soon be called home.

[durangoutcaptain of 1,000]

do any of you feel that you are going to see the last days come upon us and think that you will be a part of this last days scenario?

Don't you? where exactly are you going with this question? What thoughts do you have about this subject?

Thanks.

[pjbrowniecaptain of 1,000]

I've been a very strong advocate of this. I have felt strongly in the last four years that the cleansing tests in America were imminent (like within months). I'm now wondering if we have been granted a reprieve.

[HeirofNumenorthe Heir Of Numenor]

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=23349
3 Grave Dangers Likely Facing LDS Church by 2017

My take on it...

[NowOrNevercaptain of 10]

Yes. I am not sure what my personal role is in all of it, but I have been excited about these events for 20 years. I marvel that others don't feel ANYTHING and go about their lives filling their time with countless distractions and doing nothing to prepare. I just hope I can get everything I want/ need before it gets ugly. It feels so close........

[Zowieinkcaptain of 100]

Yep, personally believe I'll get the "wonderful" opportunity to live through it. PB says it, and I feel it down in my gut. I would rather be with my wife on the other side, if I had a preference.....but I don't.

[DragonHi, I'm new.]

There are prophecies about World War III which include the invasion of the US by China and Russia. The conditions of this war are already in place. We have overspent our means, our army relies mostly on technology and uses far fewer soldiers than in the past, there are traitors within the American Government who seek to overthrow the Constitution and the freedom of religion. All these things are here today. If the violence in the world leads to a holy war, between Christians and Muslims, the prophecy will be complete, and we will pass the next marker/'prophecy prior to the Second Coming.

Yes, I will live to see Christ reign on the Earth. And should I die before my journey's through, I hope to rise with the Just on that day. But it is certainly within my lifetime. Another 20 or 25 years tops before Zion is built in America, the 10 Tribes return from the North, and two prophets stand in Jerusalem.

- Dragon

[TrojanHorsecaptain of 10]

Absolutely. I agree with all on this thread. I even created a web site to publish how soon these things could happen.

See this thread for details.

[gruden2.0captain of 100]

I've been a very strong advocate of this. I have felt strongly in the last four years that the cleansing tests in America were imminent (like within months). I'm now wondering if we have been granted a reprieve.

Or you were simply mistaken. No shame in that, as most since Christ's resurrection have fallen prey to that. If you would've told church members in Joseph's or Brigham's day that the Second Coming had not come by 2012, they would've been shocked. During the 2008/2009 meltdown I thought we would've had full collapse by 2010, but they managed to paper that over and delay it for the time being.

I suspect there are aspects of the cleansing members won't be expecting. I find the "bring it on" attitude that exists to be unsettling. I don't think we fully appreciate what's coming. It will come - no reprieve. We're just being more than a little overeager.

[tmaccaptain of 1,000]

I've been reading John Pontius' book The Triumph of Zion. His basic thesis is that the only reason the Second Coming hasn't occurred yet is that there is not yet a people worthy of it. His theory is that it could/would have happened in JS and/or BY's day if members of the Church had been willing to live celestial laws and become a Zion people, but they were not willing. His position is that the Second Coming will not occur until a Zion people, who are worthy and willing to live celestial laws, are raised up to prepare for the coming of the Lord.

Unfortunately, rather than progressing in that direction, for the most part, as a people, we have drifted farther from becoming a Zion people. Consequently, it is his position that we must rise to that standard and occasion individually, and when enough individuals do, they will be gathered, and the City of Zion will be built in preparation for the coming of the Lord. But for the most part, most people, including many members of the Church will probably not be willing and able to let go of Babylon, humble themselves and repent, until they have been sorely tried and cleansed -- for the most part, they simply will not be willing to do that on their own and of their own accord without being compelled to it. Since the Second Coming cannot be delayed forever, eventually God will do what is necessary to compel people, including "the saints" to humility and repentance.

Another interesting part of Pontius' thesis is that those who do this on their own in advance and voluntarily pay the price, spiritually, will have absolutely nothing to fear. They will become translated beings, capable of withstanding any and all of the plagues and sore trials that are sure to come. When a person really begins to understand and embrace this concept, one realizes that there is absolutely nothing to fear but fear itself, and that if we were on that plane spiritually, we would all be praying intensely to hasten the day of His coming, because it will be such a great blessing.

The only reason that (such praying) hasn't happened yet is because as a people we are not yet interested/willing to do that -- we are too afraid to let go of Babylon and the things of this world that we have set our hearts upon.

[HeirofNumenorthe Heir Of Numenor]

or are simply struggling to live each day, put food on the table and keep our house from being taken by the bank...

[tmaccaptain of 1,000]

or are simply struggling to live each day, put food on the table and keep our house from being taken by the bank...

. . . all temporal, worldly issues and concerns, and spiritual distractions. When we care more about our houses, cars, jobs, and worldly things and worldly status, than we do about our status and standing before God, we are indeed spiritually distracted. It may take losing them all before we are willing to sufficiently humble ourselves and turn with full purpose of heart to the Lord -- or not, as may will choose instead to curse God for such deprivations. In all likelihood, it may all be part of a great humbling process, that we can accelerate based on our own reactions -- and all the more reason to sincerely pray to hasten the day of His return, and to receive the glorious blessings that will accompany the series of events associated with His return.

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

or are simply struggling to live each day, put food on the table and keep our house from being taken by the bank...

. . . all temporal, worldly issues and concerns, and spiritual distractions. When we care more about our houses, cars, jobs, and worldly things and worldly status, than we do about our status and standing before God, we are indeed spiritually distracted. It may take losing them all before we are willing to sufficiently humble ourselves and turn with full purpose of heart to the Lord -- or not, as may will choose instead to curse God for such deprivations. In all likelihood, it may all be part of a great humbling process, that we can accelerate based on our own reactions -- and all the more reason to sincerely pray to hasten the day of His return, and to receive the glorious blessings that will accompany the series of events associated with His return.

Indeed, I have wondered what we might go thru before the Millenium and also what our daily lives will be like. I get the impression that most of what we currently consider entertainment will be gone. Instead of computer games and television, movies etc. I believe we will return to reading and of course will focus on wholesome materials that will help us. I expect there will be more commuity celebration such as the tradition of Feasts and Fasts. My Babylon self thinks that there will not be much "fun", but my Zion self says that there will be much more joy, even joy in everything we do.

I feel the more we can move towards that on our own (or I should say voluntarily with the Lord's help) it will be a much easier transition for us when the choice boils down to joining Zion or staying in Babylon.

[jonesdecaptain of 1,000]

or are simply struggling to live each day, put food on the table and keep our house from being taken by the bank...

. . . all temporal, worldly issues and concerns, and spiritual distractions. When we care more about our houses, cars, jobs, and worldly things and worldly status, than we do about our status and standing before God, we are indeed spiritually distracted. It may take losing them all before we are willing to sufficiently humble ourselves and turn with full purpose of heart to the Lord -- or not, as may will choose instead to curse God for such deprivations. In all likelihood, it may all be part of a great humbling process, that we can accelerate based on our own reactions -- and all the more reason to sincerely pray to hasten the day of His return, and to receive the glorious blessings that will accompany the series of events associated with His return.

I may be wrong, but it sounded more like HeirofNumenor was talking about the bare necessities involved with providing for a family. We live in a day where if a young man wants to have a family and provide for it, especially without requiring his wife to work (or vice-versa as the case may be), then it is a difficult thing, especially if he tries to do it without government assistance for food, heating, healthcare (especially related to child birth), and in some cases even housing and transportation. There is no free money from time to time from appreciating real estate. Especially for young men unemployment is at super high levels, meaning that getting honest work is that much more difficult and requires that much more sacrifice in time.

Of course, in doing all that, is not the young man working toward Zion and building it up? The very actions of becoming self-sufficient and caring for one's own are actions that bring a man toward Zion. Brigham Young had a lot of interesting quotes about the virtue of work, and combined with sacrifice for family that seems like something that in and of itself will bring a man closer to God and to Zion.

I always think of work as something that is good, especially if it is good honest work producing something as part of a voluntary exchange, and not funded through coercion in any way. Most people these days don't even get the opportunity to work for vanity and the glory of the world. Most people work hard and never really have much to show for it, let alone enough to impress the neighbors, and nothing like what is required to impress the really vain and wealthy with their fancy social circles.

I suppose if someone was talking about working long hours when they really don't need to financially, or choosing wealth and a comfortable lifestyle over family or otherwise serving others, then yes it would be appropriate to contrast that with what is required to build Zion. For most of us it seems that our path to Zion is through long hours of work that stresses our minds and/or bodies and that consists mostly of things we would not otherwise want to do.

That said, I guess I should get back to work...

[tmaccaptain of 1,000]

Not long ago someone posted something about the research they had done about the history of the United Order in Orderville, where it was the most successful and lasted the longest. My wife's family is from that area, so it was something I could relate to. One of the biggest reasons the United Order worked there for so long was that about 20 families in Orderville had first been part of the Muddy Mission in southeast Nevada, which was a complete failure, based on the natural conditions, including extreme heat and drought, and where after years of hard work and extreme privation, they left with nothing, and were assigned to go to Orderville. One of the biggest reasons the United Order worked there was because of that block of families who had been extremely humbled, and had experienced extreme deprivation to the point that they were thankful for anything and everything, and never complained about anything. They learned to have faith that the Lord would provide, and depended completely on Him. I don't think any of us have yet experienced what they did. But if/when we do, it will provide an opportunity for a similar cleansing experience from which we will emerge better people.

[LukeAir2008captain of 1,000]

We can only assume that the Lord must love the worldly, hypocritical, porn addicted, carnal members who make up most of the membership of the Church. They can never build Zion or commune with real angelic beings.

Is there another people whom the Lord can call upon to build Zion? It's unlikely. Maybe Paul Washer and a few thousand truly dedicated to Christ outside of the Lord's church.

We have dedicated leaders who are committed to Christ but few followers.

No the Lord will see out his work and he will purify and sanctify this people through tribulation and suffering and calamity and horrors until there are enough sanctified and purified and holy individuals who can march to Zion and build a holy city and who can commune and work with Celestial beings without shrinking in terror and shrivelling up and dying.

Zion will be built. The road to Zion will not be pleasant.

[coachmarcMy own worst enemy]

I've been reading John Pontius' book The Triumph of Zion. His basic thesis is that the only reason the Second Coming hasn't occurred yet is that there is not yet a people worthy of it. His theory is that it could/would have happened in JS and/or BY's day if members of the Church had been willing to live celestial laws and become a Zion people, but they were not willing. His position is that the Second Coming will not occur until a Zion people, who are worthy and willing to live celestial laws, are raised up to prepare for the coming of the Lord.

Unfortunately, rather than progressing in that direction, for the most part, as a people, we have drifted farther from becoming a Zion people. Consequently, it is his position that we must rise to that standard and occasion individually, and when enough individuals do, they will be gathered, and the City of Zion will be built in preparation for the coming of the Lord. But for the most part, most people, including many members of the Church will probably not be willing and able to let go of Babylon, humble themselves and repent, until they have been sorely tried and cleansed -- for the most part, they simply will not be willing to do that on their own and of their own accord without being compelled to it. Since the Second Coming cannot be delayed forever, eventually God will do what is necessary to compel people, including "the saints" to humility and repentance.

Another interesting part of Pontius' thesis is that those who do this on their own in advance and voluntarily pay the price, spiritually, will have absolutely nothing to fear. They will become translated beings, capable of withstanding any and all of the plagues and sore trials that are sure to come. When a person really begins to understand and embrace this concept, one realizes that there is absolutely nothing to fear but fear itself, and that if we were on that plane spiritually, we would all be praying intensely to hasten the day of His coming, because it will be such a great blessing.

The only reason that (such praying) hasn't happened yet is because as a people we are not yet interested/willing to do that -- we are too afraid to let go of Babylon and the things of this world that we have set our hearts upon.

. . . all temporal, worldly issues and concerns, and spiritual distractions. When we care more about our houses, cars, jobs, and worldly things and worldly status, than we do about our status and standing before God, we are indeed spiritually distracted. It may take losing them all before we are willing to sufficiently humble ourselves and turn with full purpose of heart to the Lord -- or not, as may will choose instead to curse God for such deprivations. In all likelihood, it may all be part of a great humbling process, that we can accelerate based on our own reactions -- and all the more reason to sincerely pray to hasten the day of His return, and to receive the glorious blessings that will accompany the series of events associated with His return.

+100

You can take the Israelites out of Egypt, but you can't always take Egypt out of the Israelites. You can take the Jews out of Babylon, but you can't always take Babylon out of the Jews. Then there are the saints of our dispensation...

[HeirofNumenorthe Heir Of Numenor]

I may be wrong, but it sounded more like HeirofNumenor was talking about the bare necessities involved with providing for a family. We live in a day where if a young man wants to have a family and provide for it, especially without requiring his wife to work (or vice-versa as the case may be), then it is a difficult thing, especially if he tries to do it without government assistance for food, heating, healthcare (especially related to child birth), and in some cases even housing and transportation. There is no free money from time to time from appreciating real estate. Especially for young men unemployment is at super high levels, meaning that getting honest work is that much more difficult and requires that much more sacrifice in time.

EXACTLY!!!!

[ndjilicaptain of 100]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yaPp7fiPBI&feature=related

[Tribunalcaptain of 1,000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yaPp7fiPBI&feature=related

I was at that show and it was awesome!

[tmaccaptain of 1,000]

I may be wrong, but it sounded more like HeirofNumenor was talking about the bare necessities involved with providing for a family. We live in a day where if a young man wants to have a family and provide for it, especially without requiring his wife to work (or vice-versa as the case may be), then it is a difficult thing, especially if he tries to do it without government assistance for food, heating, healthcare (especially related to child birth), and in some cases even housing and transportation. There is no free money from time to time from appreciating real estate. Especially for young men unemployment is at super high levels, meaning that getting honest work is that much more difficult and requires that much more sacrifice in time.

EXACTLY!!!!

I don't disagree. But when we learn to truly take the Spirit as our guide, we will be shown all things that we must do to navigate that and all other minefields. I think we still think and talk way too much about things that essentially amount to relying on the arm of flesh. If our highest priority becomes our personal relationship with God, and learning to recognize, hear and obey the still small voice that is willing to guide us, we will have what we need, to do what we need to do.

[sbsioncaptain of 1,000]

last days BEFORE or after the millenium ?

[tmaccaptain of 1,000]

I think this discussion has focused on last days scenarios before the Millenium.

[sbsioncaptain of 1,000]

actually, it doesn't matter, I expect to be here period

[Book of Ruthcaptain of 100]

I disagree with this thesis that the Second Coming would come if the people were prepared, meaning that somehow we could hurry the Second Coming. Based on D&C 77:6-7, there the Second Coming was not ever going to happen before the year 2000, there had to be 7- 1000 year time periods.

“John Pontius' book The Triumph of Zion. His basic thesis is that the only reason the Second Coming hasn't occurred yet is that there is not yet a people worthy of it. His theory is that it could/would have happened in JS and/or BY's day if members of the Church had been willing to live celestial laws and become a Zion people, but they were not willing. His position is that the Second Coming will not occur until a Zion people, who are worthy and willing to live celestial laws, are raised up to prepare for the coming of the Lord.”

D&C 77: 6 Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was asealed on the back with seven seals?
A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, bmysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this cearth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.
7 Q. What are we to understand by the seven aseals with which it was sealed?
A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the bfirst thousand years, and the csecond also of the second thousand years, and so on until the seventh.

That being said, I too believe that we will experience many calamities that will prepare us to meet the Savior. I think that one of the things that will help prepare us to meet Him will be the physical destruction of much that makes us unprepared to meet Him now.

This pattern has been established as with the Israelites being removed from Egypt- like someone else posted. The destruction of the cities in the America’s before the Savior appeared to the Nephites.

My top 3 votes are- plague: starting in Salt Lake area. EMP/Nuke: Electronics no longer the having a hold on the people’s minds, Economic Collapse: All enterprise ceases, revolutions take place, and infrastructure breaks down.

When- total speculation, but I’d say July-Sept 2015