Does the Church Use Paid Persons to Monitor Our Discussions?

[Thinkercaptain of 100]

Oh I have no doubt that the GAs don't care much at all about what we talk about here; they are just too busy to monitor websites. The COB is a different story though. They hire PR firms and other employees to go on the web to get positive sites higher in Google rankings and to get negative items lower. It is called SEO.

I believe it - & it's actually often obvious by all of the "Mormon ads."
And as I mentioned one particular poster (Katzpur) on another forum posts as if she supports the church, but in private told me she doesn't believe the same as the church regarding significant issues.

[Kingdom of ZIONcaptain of 100]

So back to the question asked a hundred times,

Does the Church Use Paid Persons to Monitor Our Discussion?

Yes.

They would be Negligent in their duties if they did not. The Church has many enemies, and watching forums as well as pro and anti websites allows them to see trends that are coming that may led to large apostasies, bad press that can grow out of these trends, lawsuits that could blindside them if they were not looking, or just loosing the public image or perceptions they want of the Church portrayed in.

But like the US Government, there is a dark side to this kind of information gathering, this spying they do. The LDS Church is like every true church before them that has gone into apostasy, having lost the gift of prophecy and revelation, they use every means in their power to search the recorded prophecies from their foundation/formation looking for clues as to of what will come next and how to appear they are aware of it and are apart of this next work G_d is doing among men. However, secretly they will seek out and try to defame, destroy, or remove anyone who really threatens their organization. If you think the government accidentally killed David Korresh and his followers, and then did not have anything to do with the Waco records being destroyed in the Oklahoma bombing... and cannot see why the government feared David Korrech, then you will never see what the LDS Church is really capable of!

Shalom

[coachmarcMy own worst enemy]

The church during Zedekiah's reign was corrupt. I find it interesting how Zoram spoke to Nephi, believing him to be Laban, about the elders of the church, while they walked to the outer walls of Jerusalem. Prophets came and testified against the church warning of destruction and Babylon's conquest. Yet the Jews killed the prophets. They did not believe in prophecy, but rather mocked and killed the prophets, including Jeremiah.

The church during the time of Christ was also corrupt, and entrenched by worldly beliefs. Rather than being under the worldly rule of Babylon, they had allowed themselves to be ruled by the worldly government of Rome. The Jews did not believe in prophecy, ministering of angels, etc. That stuff only happened in the past, such as the days of Moses. No wonder Zacharias was struck dumb when he disbelieved an angel of the Lord. This meeting, in and of itself, was a miracle as the timing and turn of Zacharias came to serve in the capacity, which brought the angel to him, who was destined to be the father of the forerunner of the Savior. And the Jews, Pharasees and Saducees, all of whom where the elite authorities of the church, prided themselves in how strict they were in following the letter of the law. But they were truly clueless.

Today in the church, we have all sorts of programs, which we're supposed to do like fasting only once per month, attending church three hours each Sunday, learning from teachers who don't even understand what they're teaching. No wonder why everything is correlated. It saddens me to say the membership are like McDonald's employees who simply place a cup under the nozzle of a soda fountain and with a push of a button, a preset amount of soda pours into the appropriate sized cup. It's teenager proof! No need to think. And after we all go home each Sunday, we turn on the tv and get back to the football game, or whatever Babylonian activity we enjoy most. Fast Sunday, check. Family home evening, check, prepared a lesson, check. Ate bread and water, check. But members today don't bother making a serious study of the Book of Mormon. Most do not understand they have the privilege of being ministered to by angels regularly, much less receiving and audience with the Savior. If they go to the temple, they don't realize the full import of the endowment. Most seldom to never go to the temple unless a family member is getting married there.

The church in Zarahemla was the exact same way. What was it that Samuel, a Lamanite prophet declared?

25 And now when ye talk, ye say: If our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out.
26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.

Today we have members marching in pride parades on the Sabbath. Members are boating on the Sabbath, watching football on the Sabbath, looking forward to Superbowl on the Sabbath. We are the biggest Sabbath breakers in the world. The world is lost, but we who have the light and the law should know better. There are members in all ranks of the membership viewing pornography. There are members who drink coffee and/or tea. There are members who don't believe in the law of tithing, which is a lesser law. No wonder Nephi and Jacob and Alma went about the land, rebuking the members, declaring mighty repentance and performing mighty miracles. Today, members are just as worldly and corrupt as the Israelites were in Moses' time and in Christ's time. And most consider themselves righteous because they starve themselves once a month on Fast Sunday, attend all three block meetings each Sunday, eat a piece of bread and drink a tiny cup of water, visit some families at the end of each month, etc. Yup, we do what we're supposed to for the most part and then we're right back in front of the TV, etc. paying homage to Babylon, where our hearts truly live.

[firendcaptain of 1,000]

Chances are that all apostles who will serve in our lifetimes are already in the Q70. Look at the faces of the Q12, you will see there every prophet for the next 40 years (Bednar, Christopherson, Andersen).

I don't agree with you. Section 107 stipulates that the president will be chosen from the body of the church high priests. Oh. But we don't do that anymore. I must concede: you may be correct, as the corporation sole articles specify that all future presidents come from the 12, not from the church.

I did not know about those sole articles. So then what are they going to do if God decided to send that future David fellow, (future Moses) etc?

[Kingdom of ZIONcaptain of 100]

Chances are that all apostles who will serve in our lifetimes are already in the Q70. Look at the faces of the Q12, you will see there every prophet for the next 40 years (Bednar, Christopherson, Andersen).

I don't agree with you. Section 107 stipulates that the president will be chosen from the body of the church high priests. Oh. But we don't do that anymore. I must concede: you may be correct, as the corporation sole articles specify that all future presidents come from the 12, not from the church.

I did not know about those sole articles. So then what are they going to do if God decided to send that future David fellow, (future Moses) etc?

Seek to do what the Jews did to Adonai (Yehoshua). Have him put to death!

[firendcaptain of 1,000]

agreed

[sadie_Mormoncaptain of 1,000]

But like the US Government, there is a dark side to this kind of information gathering, this spying they do. The LDS Church is like every true church before them that has gone into apostasy, having lost the gift of prophecy and revelation, they use every means in their power to search the recorded prophecies from their foundation/formation looking for clues as to of what will come next and how to appear they are aware of it and are apart of this next work G_d is doing among men. However, secretly they will seek out and try to defame, destroy, or remove anyone who really threatens their organization. If you think the government accidentally killed David Korresh and his followers, and then did not have anything to do with the Waco records being destroyed in the Oklahoma bombing... and cannot see why the government feared David Korrech, then you will never see what the LDS Church is really capable of!

Shalom

++1

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

But like the US Government, there is a dark side to this kind of information gathering, this spying they do. The LDS Church is like every true church before them that has gone into apostasy, having lost the gift of prophecy and revelation, they use every means in their power to search the recorded prophecies from their foundation/formation looking for clues as to of what will come next and how to appear they are aware of it and are apart of this next work G_d is doing among men. However, secretly they will seek out and try to defame, destroy, or remove anyone who really threatens their organization. If you think the government accidentally killed David Korresh and his followers, and then did not have anything to do with the Waco records being destroyed in the Oklahoma bombing... and cannot see why the government feared David Korrech, then you will never see what the LDS Church is really capable of!

Shalom

++1

I would be curious how many others here besides KOZ and sadie_ feel that the LDS church has gone into a state of apostasy and has lost the gifts of prophesy and revelation. Sounds like an interesting poll..

[minganocaptain of 1,000]

I would be curious how many others here besides KOZ and sadie_ feel that the LDS church has gone into a state of apostasy and has lost the gifts of prophesy and revelation. Sounds like an interesting poll..

Not my place to make such a call. My job is to be a tally mark on the rolls of the church and do the best I can. Nothing else.

[buffalo_girlcaptain of 1,000]

If you think the government accidentally killed David Korresh and his followers, and then did not have anything to do with the Waco records being destroyed in the Oklahoma bombing... and cannot see why the government feared David Korrech, then you will never see what the LDS Church is really capable of!

Doggone it, I am so lost!!!!

Are you comparing the LDS Church to the Branch Davidians or to the government?

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

I am concerned about the tone of some discussion regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints lately. Just one example --

But like the US Government, there is a dark side to this kind of information gathering, this spying they do. The LDS Church is like every true church before them that has gone into apostasy, having lost the gift of prophecy and revelation, they use every means in their power to search the recorded prophecies from their foundation/formation looking for clues as to of what will come next and how to appear they are aware of it and are apart of this next work G_d is doing among men. However, secretly they will seek out and try to defame, destroy, or remove anyone who really threatens their organization.

May I again note that the Church of Jesus Christ holds the keys of the Priesthood of God and is the "good woman" spoken of in Revelation, which will build the New Jerusalem/Zion as the red Beast and the whore Babylon fight it out in the last days.

I want to be part of this building of NJ/Zion. How about you?

Who else will do it, in preparation for the coming of Christ, if not the Church of Jesus Christ?

Now, the Lord himself said there will be a cleansing of the Church in the last days -- "upon my house shall it begin" He said clearly. And then -- not an afterthought-- He instructed us to not concern ourselves with steadying the ark; He will do the cleansing. Would you read with me prayerfully?

10 Be thou humble; and the Lord thy God shall lead thee by the hand, and give thee answer to thy prayers.

11 I know thy heart, and have heard thy prayers concerning thy brethren....




15[size=200] Exalt not yourselves; rebel not against my servant Joseph; for verily I say unto you, I am with him, and my hand shall be over him; and the keys which I have given unto him, and also to youward, shall not be taken from him till I come.[/size]
...

20 Whosoever receiveth my word receiveth me, and whosoever receiveth me, receiveth those, the First Presidency, whom I have sent, whom I have made counselors for my name’s sake unto you.....

23 Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face.

24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.

27 Therefore, see to it that ye trouble not yourselves concerning the affairs of my church in this place, saith the Lord.

President Packer and others have spoken of the cleansing, the sifting.

I'm not asking people to be silent as they may see injustices; and several have noted, BYU is NOT the Church. You don't have to stand and applaud at BYU when Dick Cheney gets that honorary PhD for public service, nor when Rothschild and "human capital" are publicly lauded, nor when General Petraeus defends the opium-poppie protection in Afghanistan (while speaking, invited at BYU).

But please be careful to stay with the "good Woman", the Church of Jesus Christ! These are the last days, and there will be and is now a sifting going on. I urge you to stay the course.

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

If you think the government accidentally killed David Korresh and his followers, and then did not have anything to do with the Waco records being destroyed in the Oklahoma bombing... and cannot see why the government feared David Korrech, then you will never see what the LDS Church is really capable of!

Doggone it, I am so lost!!!!

Are you comparing the LDS Church to the Branch Davidians or to the government?

I believe the point was that if the Branch Davidians and their little compund were such a threat to bring about such a response, what could 15 million committed and guided by revelation LDS do?

I guess in answer to your question, the LDS church is being compared to the Branch Davidians - but not in a bad way, just as a potential thorn in the side of government.

[coachmarcMy own worst enemy]

Just to clarify my previous post when I refer to the church, I mean the entire body. I am not accusing our leadership. I sustain them and I have a testimony that they are inspired. Whether or not any of them have a personal audience with the Savior as Nephi and many others did, I don't know. There is another topic on this forum: Which came first the chicken or the egg? Now if our leadership preaches skim milk from the pulpit, it is only because the general membership simply are not valiant in their testimony of Jesus Christ, if they have one. Most members have no clue because they simply do not search the scriptures diligently. They are making the same mistakes that the Nephites and Lamanites did, that the ancient Israelites did, etc. So do our leaders not lead because we are not willing to follow or do we not follow because they are not leading? Do members grasp the significance of the Israelites wandering in the wilderness for forty years under Moses' leadership? Many people cannot even grasp the significance of the allegory of the tame and wild olive trees or the time of the fullness of the gentiles. We have all the information that we need and the Lord is ready to give us more and He has promised us more, but we simply don't want it. We are proving it every day. Does this constitute a falling away? What do you think??

The church during Zedekiah's reign was corrupt. I find it interesting how Zoram spoke to Nephi, believing him to be Laban, about the elders of the church, while they walked to the outer walls of Jerusalem. Prophets came and testified against the church warning of destruction and Babylon's conquest. Yet the Jews killed the prophets. They did not believe in prophecy, but rather mocked and killed the prophets, including Jeremiah.

The church during the time of Christ was also corrupt, and entrenched by worldly beliefs. Rather than being under the worldly rule of Babylon, they had allowed themselves to be ruled by the worldly government of Rome. The Jews did not believe in prophecy, ministering of angels, etc. That stuff only happened in the past, such as the days of Moses. No wonder Zacharias was struck dumb when he disbelieved an angel of the Lord. This meeting, in and of itself, was a miracle as the timing and turn of Zacharias came to serve in the capacity, which brought the angel to him, who was destined to be the father of the forerunner of the Savior. And the Jews, Pharasees and Saducees, all of whom where the elite authorities of the church, prided themselves in how strict they were in following the letter of the law. But they were truly clueless.

Today in the church, we have all sorts of programs, which we're supposed to do like fasting only once per month, attending church three hours each Sunday, learning from teachers who don't even understand what they're teaching. No wonder why everything is correlated. It saddens me to say the membership are like McDonald's employees who simply place a cup under the nozzle of a soda fountain and with a push of a button, a preset amount of soda pours into the appropriate sized cup. It's teenager proof! No need to think. And after we all go home each Sunday, we turn on the tv and get back to the football game, or whatever Babylonian activity we enjoy most. Fast Sunday, check. Family home evening, check, prepared a lesson, check. Ate bread and water, check. But members today don't bother making a serious study of the Book of Mormon. Most do not understand they have the privilege of being ministered to by angels regularly, much less receiving and audience with the Savior. If they go to the temple, they don't realize the full import of the endowment. Most seldom to never go to the temple unless a family member is getting married there.

The church in Zarahemla was the exact same way. What was it that Samuel, a Lamanite prophet declared?

25 And now when ye talk, ye say: If our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out.
26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.

Today we have members marching in pride parades on the Sabbath. Members are boating on the Sabbath, watching football on the Sabbath, looking forward to Superbowl on the Sabbath. We are the biggest Sabbath breakers in the world. The world is lost, but we who have the light and the law should know better. There are members in all ranks of the membership viewing pornography. There are members who drink coffee and/or tea. There are members who don't believe in the law of tithing, which is a lesser law. No wonder Nephi and Jacob and Alma went about the land, rebuking the members, declaring mighty repentance and performing mighty miracles. Today, members are just as worldly and corrupt as the Israelites were in Moses' time and in Christ's time. And most consider themselves righteous because they starve themselves once a month on Fast Sunday, attend all three block meetings each Sunday, eat a piece of bread and drink a tiny cup of water, visit some families at the end of each month, etc. Yup, we do what we're supposed to for the most part and then we're right back in front of the TV, etc. paying homage to Babylon, where our hearts truly live.

[sadie_Mormoncaptain of 1,000]

I would be curious how many others here besides KOZ and sadie_ feel that the LDS church has gone into a state of apostasy and has lost the gifts of prophesy and revelation. Sounds like an interesting poll..

With all due respect Mark, you really don't know what I feel about it. You can't brush everything with one broad stroke. What you know can be entirely different from what you feel.

[minganocaptain of 1,000]

What happens if you know that what you know to be right in your heart is wrong?

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

Just to clarify my previous post when I refer to the church, I mean the entire body. I am not accusing our leadership. I sustain them and I have a testimony that they are inspired. Whether or not any of them have a personal audience with the Savior as Nephi and many others did, I don't know. There is another topic on this forum: Which came first the chicken or the egg? Now if our leadership preaches skim milk from the pulpit, it is only because the general membership simply are not valiant in their testimony of Jesus Christ, if they have one. Most members have no clue because they simply do not search the scriptures diligently. They are making the same mistakes that the Nephites and Lamanites did, that the ancient Israelites did, etc.

OK -- thanks for clarifying, coachmarc!

[shadowcaptain of 1,000]

Today in the church, we have all sorts of programs, which we're supposed to do like fasting only once per month, attending church three hours each Sunday, learning from teachers who don't even understand what they're teaching. No wonder why everything is correlated. It saddens me to say the membership are like McDonald's employees who simply place a cup under the nozzle of a soda fountain and with a push of a button, a preset amount of soda pours into the appropriate sized cup. It's teenager proof! No need to think. And after we all go home each Sunday, we turn on the tv and get back to the football game, or whatever Babylonian activity we enjoy most. Fast Sunday, check. Family home evening, check, prepared a lesson, check. Ate bread and water, check. But members today don't bother making a serious study of the Book of Mormon. Most do not understand they have the privilege of being ministered to by angels regularly, much less receiving and audience with the Savior. If they go to the temple, they don't realize the full import of the endowment. Most seldom to never go to the temple unless a family member is getting married there.

The church in Zarahemla was the exact same way. What was it that Samuel, a Lamanite prophet declared?

25 And now when ye talk, ye say: If our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out.
26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.

Today we have members marching in pride parades on the Sabbath. Members are boating on the Sabbath, watching football on the Sabbath, looking forward to Superbowl on the Sabbath. We are the biggest Sabbath breakers in the world. The world is lost, but we who have the light and the law should know better. There are members in all ranks of the membership viewing pornography. There are members who drink coffee and/or tea. There are members who don't believe in the law of tithing, which is a lesser law. No wonder Nephi and Jacob and Alma went about the land, rebuking the members, declaring mighty repentance and performing mighty miracles. Today, members are just as worldly and corrupt as the Israelites were in Moses' time and in Christ's time. And most consider themselves righteous because they starve themselves once a month on Fast Sunday, attend all three block meetings each Sunday, eat a piece of bread and drink a tiny cup of water, visit some families at the end of each month, etc. Yup, we do what we're supposed to for the most part and then we're right back in front of the TV, etc. paying homage to Babylon, where our hearts truly live.

You have a great ability to cast stones but shouldn't you worry about yourself? As for me, I know a lot of wonderful latter-day saints!

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

Yeah, about half.
From the Lord's own mouth (D&C 45) we learn that only half the Ten Virgins will be prepared -- and who are these Ten Virgins?

D&C 45:56–57 Spencer W. Kimball explained:

“I believe that the Ten Virgins represent the people of the Church of Jesus Christ and not the rank and file of the world. All of the virgins, wise and foolish, had accepted the invitation to the wedding supper; they had knowledge of the program and had been warned of the important day to come. They were not the gentiles or the heathens or the pagans, nor were they necessarily corrupt and reprobate, but they were knowing people who were foolishly unprepared for the vital happenings that were to affect their eternal lives.

“They had the saving, exalting gospel, but it had not been made the center of their lives. They knew the way but gave only a small measure of loyalty and devotion. I ask you: What value is a car without an engine, a cup without water, a table without food, a lamp without oil?

“Rushing for their lamps to light their way through the blackness, half of them found them empty. They had cheated themselves. They were fools, these five unprepared virgins. Apparently, the bridegroom had tarried for reasons that were sufficient and good. Time had passed, and he had not come. They had heard of his coming for so long, so many times, that the statement seemingly became meaningless to them. Would he ever come? So long had it been since they began expecting him that they were rationalizing that he would never appear. Perhaps it was a myth.

“Hundreds of thousands of us today are in this position. Confidence has been dulled and patience worn thin. It is so hard to wait and be prepared always. But we cannot allow ourselves to slumber. The Lord has given us this parable as a special warning.

“At midnight, the vital cry was made, ‘Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.’ . . .

“At midnight! Precisely at the darkest hour, when least expected, the bridegroom came. When the world is full of tribulation and help is needed, but it seems the time must be past and hope is vain, then Christ will come. The midnights of life are the times when heaven comes to offer its joy for man’s weariness. But when the cry sounds, there is no time for preparation. The lamps then make patterns of joy on the hillside, and the procession moves on toward the house of banqueting, and those without lamps or oil are left in darkness. When they have belatedly sought to fulfill the requirements and finally reach the hall, the door is shut. In the daytime, wise and unwise seemed alike; midnight is the time of test and judgment—and of offered gladness. . . .

“The foolish asked the others to share their oil, but spiritual preparedness cannot be shared in an instant. The wise had to go, else the bridegroom would have gone unwelcomed. They needed all their oil for themselves; they could not save the foolish. The responsibility was each for himself.

“This was not selfishness or unkindness. The kind of oil that is needed to illuminate the way and light up the darkness is not shareable. How can one share obedience to the principle of tithing; a mind at peace from righteous living; an accumulation of knowledge? How can one share faith or testimony? How can one share attitudes or chastity, or the experience of a mission? How can one share temple privileges? Each must obtain that kind of oil for himself.

“The foolish virgins were not averse to buying oil. They knew they should have oil. They merely procrastinated, not knowing when the bridegroom would come....

“Midnight is so late for those who have procrastinated.” ( Faith Precedes the Miracle, pp. 253–56.)

[awakecaptain of 100]

What happens if you know that what you know to be right in your heart is wrong?

We must be humble and teachable, and willing to change whatever 'sincere' beliefs we may have had that we find are not really true. Most people have to change some of their errant though 'sincere heart felt beliefs' as they go through life, for everyone can be wrong at times, even about things they thought came from the Spirit or a trusted leader.

[coachmarcMy own worst enemy]

You have a great ability to cast stones but shouldn't you worry about yourself? As for me, I know a lot of wonderful latter-day saints!

I worry about myself every day. I don't think anyone can be harder on me that I am of myself. I know that on the internet, tone and sincerity can be misread and I understand. I love my fellow man. There is nobody that I do not love or to whom I wouldn't give the shirt off my back. When I share my thoughts, I do try not to sound judgmental, so when I do, I speak in general terms and not to anyone specific. I do not accuse anyone, but I am also not blind that I cannot see we are all wandering in the wilderness together. I am my brothers keeper because I love my brother--all my brothers and sisters. I know many wonderful latter-day saints as well and many wonderful people outside our faith, too. But all is not well in Zion.

[minganocaptain of 1,000]

I don't think anyone can be harder on me that I am of myself.

You are not alone.

[coachmarcMy own worst enemy]

I don't think anyone can be harder on me that I am of myself.

You are not alone.

Thanks, brother.

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

I would be curious how many others here besides KOZ and sadie_ feel that the LDS church has gone into a state of apostasy and has lost the gifts of prophesy and revelation. Sounds like an interesting poll..

With all due respect Mark, you really don't know what I feel about it. You can't brush everything with one broad stroke. What you know can be entirely different from what you feel.

I can only go off of what you post sister sadie. If you agree with Kingdoms post like you appeared to then you must also feel like him that the church is in a state of apostasy and has lost the gift of revelation and the keys of authority. If you don't believe that then you better read posts like his a little more carefully before responding to them.

[ATL Wakecaptain of 1,000]

You have a great ability to cast stones but shouldn't you worry about yourself?

Seriously?? Coach is one of the nicest guys in this forum. I was slightly shocked at his stern rebuke.

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

I am concerned about the tone of some discussion regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints lately. Just one example --

But like the US Government, there is a dark side to this kind of information gathering, this spying they do. The LDS Church is like every true church before them that has gone into apostasy, having lost the gift of prophecy and revelation, they use every means in their power to search the recorded prophecies from their foundation/formation looking for clues as to of what will come next and how to appear they are aware of it and are apart of this next work G_d is doing among men. However, secretly they will seek out and try to defame, destroy, or remove anyone who really threatens their organization.

May I again note that the Church of Jesus Christ holds the keys of the Priesthood of God and is the "good woman" spoken of in Revelation, which will build the New Jerusalem/Zion as the red Beast and the whore Babylon fight it out in the last days.

I want to be part of this building of NJ/Zion. How about you?

Who else will do it, in preparation for the coming of Christ, if not the Church of Jesus Christ?

Now, the Lord himself said there will be a cleansing of the Church in the last days -- "upon my house shall it begin" He said clearly. And then -- not an afterthought-- He instructed us to not concern ourselves with steadying the ark; He will do the cleansing. Would you read with me prayerfully?

10 Be thou humble; and the Lord thy God shall lead thee by the hand, and give thee answer to thy prayers.

11 I know thy heart, and have heard thy prayers concerning thy brethren....




15[size=200] Exalt not yourselves; rebel not against my servant Joseph; for verily I say unto you, I am with him, and my hand shall be over him; and the keys which I have given unto him, and also to youward, shall not be taken from him till I come.[/size]
...

20 Whosoever receiveth my word receiveth me, and whosoever receiveth me, receiveth those, the First Presidency, whom I have sent, whom I have made counselors for my name’s sake unto you.....

23 Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face.

24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.

27 Therefore, see to it that ye trouble not yourselves concerning the affairs of my church in this place, saith the Lord.

President Packer and others have spoken of the cleansing, the sifting.

I'm not asking people to be silent as they may see injustices; and several have noted, BYU is NOT the Church. You don't have to stand and applaud at BYU when Dick Cheney gets that honorary PhD for public service, nor when Rothschild and "human capital" are publicly lauded, nor when General Petraeus defends the opium-poppie protection in Afghanistan (while speaking, invited at BYU).

But please be careful to stay with the "good Woman", the Church of Jesus Christ! These are the last days, and there will be and is now a sifting going on. I urge you to stay the course.

Thank you Doc. I'm with you all the way here. Many here seem to have a radically different idea of what "the church" actually means to them than I do. Oh well such is life.

[sadie_Mormoncaptain of 1,000]

What happens if you know that what you know to be right in your heart is wrong?

The heart is an emotional part of all of us. The question should be do we base what is right solely with our heart, or do we balance it by the knowledge we gain to strengthen our hearts? With much study and prayer one will find that the promptings of the Spirit give true testimony to how we actually feel.

There is nothing like the beating of the heart, but what is truly greater is the prompting of the Spirit!

[bobhenstracaptain of 1,000]

Great post Steve Jones, 50 percent of the True Church will pass the test! Notice that President Kimball didn't say all those who pass the tests would remain in mortality.

A great many of Gods Children will be removed from this mortal existence during the earth's cleansing. The righteous over there teaching are going to need a lot of help teaching the new arrivals on that side of the veil. And the question remains with us, are we whose time in mortality is up, going to arrive there ready to teach, or will we have to be taught first?

We are saved no faster than we gain knowledge, hopefully we have learned enough on this side of the veil to understand salvation sufficiently to teach it there!

I've been there and back twice, can hardly wait for that charmed third trip!

Bob

[shadowcaptain of 1,000]

You have a great ability to cast stones but shouldn't you worry about yourself?

Seriously?? Coach is one of the nicest guys in this forum. I was slightly shocked at his stern rebuke.

Yes, "seriously". I was a bit shocked at his comment knocking his fellow LDS's, almost all of whom he doesn't even know.

[buffalo_girlcaptain of 1,000]

Lots of conflict going on around us. It's probably best to distance ourselves from the various fires kindled by the 'enemy' with intent to blind and confuse.

1Nephi 17
12 For the Lord had not hitherto suffered that we should make much fire, as we journeyed in the wilderness; for he said: I will make thy food become sweet, that ye cook it not;

13 And I will also be your light in the wilderness; and I will prepare the way before you, if it so be that ye shall keep my commandments; wherefore, inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall be led towards the promised land; and ye shall know that it is by me that ye are led.


Doctrine & Covenants 105
14 For behold, I do not require at their hands to fight the battles of Zion; for, as I said in a former commandment, even so will I fulfil—I will fight your battles.

15 Behold, the destroyer I have sent forth to destroy and lay waste mine enemies; and not many years hence they shall not be left to pollute mine heritage, and to blaspheme my name upon the lands which I have consecrated for the gathering together of my saints.

31 But first let my army become very great, and let it be sanctified before me, that it may become fair as the sun, and clear as the moon, and that her banners may be terrible unto all nations;

32 That the kingdoms of this world may be constrained to acknowledge that the kingdom of Zion is in very deed the kingdom of our God and his Christ; therefore, let us become subject unto her laws. (subject to the laws of the kingdom of God and his Christ)

33 Verily I say unto you, it is expedient in me that the first elders of my church should receive their endowment from on high in my house,..

34 And let those commandments which I have given concerning Zion and her law be executed and fulfilled, after her redemption.

35 There has been a day of calling, but the time has come for a day of choosing; and let those be chosen that are worthy.

36 And it shall be manifest unto my servant, by the voice of the Spirit, those that are chosen; and they shall be sanctified;

37 And inasmuch as they follow the counsel which they receive, they shall have power after many days to accomplish all things pertaining to Zion.

38 And again I say unto you, sue for peace, not only to the people that have smitten you, but also to all people;

39 And lift up an ensign of peace, and make a proclamation of peace unto the ends of the earth;

40 And make proposals for peace unto those who have smitten you, according to the voice of the Spirit which is in you, and all things shall work together for your good.

41 Therefore, be faithful; and behold, and lo, I am with you even unto the end. Even so. Amen.


Father dear, bless this land that those who govern shall never trample the rights of the people as was once done in Nauvoo. May liberty and peace be maintained under the banner of the Constitution, which Thou hast caused to be established "for the rights and protection of all flesh" (D&C 101:77).

President Hinckley in the Nauvoo Temple dedication at the very hour of Joseph Smith's martyrdom on June 27, 2002

What other Light do we need than that of the Lord as we journey through this wilderness?

[ATL Wakecaptain of 1,000]

Seriously?? Coach is one of the nicest guys in this forum. I was slightly shocked at his stern rebuke.

Yes, "seriously". I was a bit shocked at his comment knocking his fellow LDS's, almost all of whom he doesn't even know.[/quote]

He wasn't knocking his fellow LDS, he was pointing out some of our weaknesses and how we can be better.

So sensitive. I guess we can only speak "smooth things" otherwise we might offend. Or perhaps the guilty take the truth to be hard.