mingano wrote:awake wrote:I believe that God will allow an unworthy Prophet to remain in office and not remove him by his own power, even if that Prophet has completely fallen and is leading the Church astray.
Here is the official doctrine on the subject, as it appears in the official manual for the Teachings of the Living Prophets student manual, Religion 333. This material has been approved by the leaders of the church and must be accepted unquestioningly as 100% absolute, pure, unadulterated truth.
http://institute.lds.org/manuals/teachi ... lp-3-7.asp
(3-7) The Lord Will Never Permit the Living Prophet to Lead the Church Astray
The following are three testimonies which show clearly that the Lord will never allow his prophet to lead the Church out of the path of truth:
“I bear you my solemn witness that we have a living prophet, seer, and revelator. We are not dependent only upon the revelations given in the past . . . we have a mouthpiece to whom God is revealing his mind and will. God will never permit him to lead us astray. As has been said, God would remove us out of our place if we should attempt to do it. You have not concern. Let the management and government of God, then, be with the Lord. Do not try to find fault with the management and affairs that pertain to him alone and by revelation through his prophet.” (Harold B. Lee, “The Place of the Living Prophet, Seer, and Revelator,” in Charge, p. 112.)
“I remember years ago when I was a bishop I had President [Heber J.] Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting, I drove him home. . . . When we got to his home I got out of the car and went up on the porch with him. Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: ‘My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.’ Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, ‘But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.’” (Marion G. Romney, in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78.)
“I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.” (Wilford Woodruff, in “General Conference,” Millennial Star, 24 Nov. 1890 [52:741]; or The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212–13.)
A man who is out of harmony with the Lord will never lead the Lord’s church. God will not permit it. The following quotations make that clear:
“Safety is in following divinely appointed leadership and counsel. . . .
“The keys of this power and authority center in the president of the High Priesthood of the Church. It is not given to any other man to so represent God here upon the earth. . . .
“God will not suffer his Church, established for the last time in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times when a restitution of all things is to be accomplished, to be led by a fallen prophet, or by someone whom he does not want.” (Delbert L. Stapley, in Conference Report, Apr. 1952, pp. 49–50.)
“I testify in the name of Israel’s God that He will not suffer the head of the Church, him whom He has chosen to stand at the head, to transgress His laws and apostatize; the moment he should take a course that would in time lead to it, God would take him away. Why? Because to suffer a wicked man to occupy that position would be to allow, as it were, the fountain to become corrupted, which is something He will never permit.” (Joseph F. Smith, in Journal of Discourses, 24:192.)
(3-8) What Should We Remember about the Prerogatives of the Living Prophet?
“In conclusion, let us summarize this grand key, these ‘Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet,’ for our salvation hangs on them.
“First: The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
“Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
“Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
“Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.
“Fifth: The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
“Sixth: The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture.
“Seventh: The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
“Eighth: The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
“Ninth: The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
“Tenth: The prophet may be involved in civic matters.
“Eleventh: The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
“Twelfth: The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
“Thirteenth: The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
“Fourteenth: The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed; reject them and suffer.
“I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true.” (Benson, “Fourteen Fundamentals,” p. 30.)
Even the Church teaches that no matter 'who or how many' leaders or Prophets may teach that doctrine or any doctrine, if it is not supported by scripture or it is contrary to scriptures than it is just their opinion, at best & if contrary to scriptures, then it is false.
It would not be the 1st time that many, if not most, leaders & even 'Presidents of the Church' have taught doctrine that is contrary to the scriptures.
I do not find anywhere where this teaching is supported by scripture. It appears these leaders only gained such a belief because of what earlier leaders had said, it does not appear to come from the scriptures.
In fact, this teaching appears to be 'contrary' to what Joseph Smith taught in D&C 107, that if a President of the Church does fall, which infers he can in fact 'fall' & teach false doctrine, then the church leadership is responsible to remove him, (if they detect his errors). It does not ever say that God will remove him.
I believe God gives Presidents of the Church just as much agency to fall and led people astray as anyone else in the Church, as a test to see if we can be deceived to not and if we will stay on our toes or not. Though I realize that makes some people uncomfortable, for it put the responsibility for our salvation on our own shoulders.
"Whenever you find any doctrine, any idea, any expression from any source whatsoever that is in conflict with that which the Lord has revealed and which is found in the holy scriptures, you may be assured that it is false and you should put is aside and stand firmly grounded in the truth in prayer and in faith, relying upon the Spirit of the Lord."
Elder Joseph F. Smith, CR Apr. 1917, 59-60, 64.
"My words, and the teachings of any other member of the Church, high or low, if they do not square with the revelations, we need not accept them. Let us have this matter clear. We have accepted the four standard works as the measuring yardsticks, or balances, by which we measure every man's doctrine."
Joseph Fielding Smith
"If we want to measure truth, we should measure it by the four standard works, regardless of who writes it. If it is not in the standard works, we may well assume that it is speculation, man's own opinion; and if it contradicts what is in the scriptures, it is not true. This is the standard by which we measure all truth."
Harold B. Lee
"You cannot accept the books written by the authorities of the Church as standards of doctrine, only in so far as they accord with the revealed word in the standard works. Every man who writes is responsible, not the Church, for what he writes. If Joseph Fielding Smith writes something which is out of harmony with the revelations, then every member of the Church is duty bound to reject it. If he writes that which is in perfect harmony with the revealed word of the Lord, then it should be accepted."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 3:203-204.
"If any man writes to you or preaches to you, doctrines contrary to the Bible, the Book of Mormon, or the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, set him down as an imposter."
Times and Seasons, 5:490-491.
"Six of the original twelve apostles selected by Joseph Smith were excommunicated. The three witnesses to the Book of Mormon left the Church. Three of Joseph Smith's counselors fell - one even helped plot his death. A natural question that might arise would be that if the Lord knew in advance that these men would fall, as he undoubtedly did, why did he have his prophet call them to such high office? The answer is, to fill the Lord's purposes. For even the Master followed the will of the Father by selecting Judas. Pres. George Q. Cannon suggested an explanation, too, when he stated, "Perhaps it is his own design that faults and weaknesses should appear in high places in order that his saints may learn to trust in him and not in any man or men."
Ezra T. Benson, "An Enemy Hath Done This", p. 290.