Help finding a Brigham Young quote...

[iamse7encaptain of 1,000]

I remember years ago reading a quote by Brigham Young that said, in effect, if you take the majority of the Latter-day Saints' voice on any subject, you can claim it as the voice of God.

Many times, I have tried to find this quote and cannot find it. Perhaps my mind retained it incorrectly.

And yes, I do realize the implications of this quote, if it is even accurate, could take this thread into forbidden paths, especially during election season , (as if any LDSFF thread didn't go there anyways), but I would really like to find this quote, because it's really bugging me! (Not the quote, but the fact that I can't find it. ) So, if anyone has any ideas... please and thank you.

[A Random Phrasecaptain of 1,000]

Looks like no one can find it. I tried when I read your post yesterday, but didn't find anything and finally gave up.

[iamse7encaptain of 1,000]

Thanks for trying!

[Randcaptain of 1,000]

If they are truly "Saints", the quote is absolutely correct. If they are just members of the church, it has strange implications. Just my thought.

[iamse7encaptain of 1,000]

Okay... I think i found the quotes. They aren't as explicit as I remember, but it's the same basic gist.

We have talked to the brethren and sisters a great deal with regard to sustaining ourselves and ceasing this outside trade. Now what say you, are you for it as well as we? Are we of one heart and one mind on this subject? We can get what we wish by sending to New York for it ourselves, as well as letting others send for us. We have skill and ability to trade for all we need; and if we have to send abroad we can send our agents to buy and bring home what we need. My feelings are that every man and woman who will not obey this counsel shall be severed from the Church, and let all who feel as I do lift up the right hand. [The vote was unanimous.] That is a pretty good vote. You who feel otherwise have the privilege of lifting up your hand to signify the same. I guess it was pretty nigh right. Joseph used to say, “When you get the Latter-day Saints to agree on any point, you may know it is the voice of God.” I knew this before, but now it is proven to the whole people. (JD 12:301)

A Bishop can try a man for a breach of moral conduct, but he cannot sit in judgment on controverted points of doctrine, for they are to be referred to those who hold the keys of the higher Priesthood, and their decision is the end of all strife.
In trying all matters of doctrine, to make a decision valid, it is necessary to obtain a unanimous voice, faith, and decision. In the capacity of a Quorum, the three First Presidents must be one in their voice—the Twelve Apostles must be unanimous in their voice, to obtain a righteous decision upon any matter that may come before them, as you may read in the Doctrine and Covenants. The Seventies may decide upon the same principle. Whenever you see these Quorums unanimous in their declaration, you may set it down as true. Let the Elders get together, being faithful and true; and when they agree upon any point, you may know that it is true. (JD 9:91-92)

[A Random Phrasecaptain of 1,000]

That "faithful and true" part at the end is probably the key. Like Rand said, if they are truly "saints" it is more likely to be true. If they follow a man (tradition, fear, etc.) instead of the Spirit, then it is probably not so true.

[iamse7encaptain of 1,000]

Here's another quote I'm looking for...

There are different variations of it (so it's bound to be folkloric), but either:

"Go out and do the work and be happy, or don't, and go to hell."
"Work hard and be happy, or don't and go to hell."

Can't find anything on teh netz.

[awakecaptain of 100]

We have talked to the brethren and sisters a great deal with regard to sustaining ourselves and ceasing this outside trade. Now what say you, are you for it as well as we? Are we of one heart and one mind on this subject? We can get what we wish by sending to New York for it ourselves, as well as letting others send for us. We have skill and ability to trade for all we need; and if we have to send abroad we can send our agents to buy and bring home what we need. My feelings are that every man and woman who will not obey this counsel shall be severed from the Church, and let all who feel as I do lift up the right hand. [The vote was unanimous.] That is a pretty good vote. You who feel otherwise have the privilege of lifting up your hand to signify the same. I guess it was pretty nigh right. Joseph used to say, “When you get the Latter-day Saints to agree on any point, you may know it is the voice of God.” I knew this before, but now it is proven to the whole people. (JD 12:301)

A Bishop can try a man for a breach of moral conduct, but he cannot sit in judgment on controverted points of doctrine, for they are to be referred to those who hold the keys of the higher Priesthood, and their decision is the end of all strife.
In trying all matters of doctrine, to make a decision valid, it is necessary to obtain a unanimous voice, faith, and decision. In the capacity of a Quorum, the three First Presidents must be one in their voice—the Twelve Apostles must be unanimous in their voice, to obtain a righteous decision upon any matter that may come before them, as you may read in the Doctrine and Covenants. The Seventies may decide upon the same principle. Whenever you see these Quorums unanimous in their declaration, you may set it down as true. Let the Elders get together, being faithful and true; and when they agree upon any point, you may know that it is true. (JD 9:91-92)

I have found proof for myself that those quotes are not always true.

[A Random Phrasecaptain of 1,000]

Ditto, awake.

[LukeAir2008captain of 1,000]

A wicked and ignorant Church membership can overule the voice of God through a living, anointed Prophet and by common consent and majority vote reject revealed truth in favor of fiction and fables...

[gdemetzcaptain of 100]

You don't understand. A wicked and ignorant church membership does not apply to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints! There are ignorant members, and there are even some wicked members. However, the majority of the LDS are righteous and have enough of the light of Christ in them, as well as the Holy Ghost, so as to not be deceived, and to be as one, as Christ stated, and therefore be one with the mind and will of God (see the statement below)! My guess is that the revelation which you are referring to was really no revelation at all. Wilford Woodruff, who was a close associate of Brigham Young, drafted a letter, and it was finally written by Joseph F. Smith, and it stated:

"President Young no doubt stated his personal opinion or view upon the subject. What he said was not given as revelation or commandment from the Lord {even though I think Brigham Young, misunderstanding some of Joseph's revelations, thought that it was, at least for a good while}. The doctrine was never given to the councils of the priesthood nor to the church for approval or ratification, and was never formally or otherwise accepted by the church. It is therefore in no sense binding upon the church."

Your statement reminds me of a man who was very angry with the bishop and the council, including the stake president, who excommunicated his brother for a sexual transgression involving an underage girl. The angry brother claimed he had received a personal revelation from the spirit that his brother was innocent. Finally, the bishop counseled with him and told him frankly that all those worthy men had carefully and prayerfully examined the case, and they were led by the Spirit to the unanimous conclusion that his brother was guilty. Finally the brother realized that the personal revelation he received was from the wrong ACCUSING spirit!

Another witness, yet another prophet, has added his testimony to other true prophets and apostles, and he is Spencer W. Kimball.

"We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the scriptures and which are alleged (truly) to have been taught by some of the general authorities of past generations. Such for instance is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that every one will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine."

[LukeAir2008captain of 1,000]

You don't understand. A wicked and ignorant church membership does not apply to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints! There are ignorant members, and there are even some wicked members. However, the majority of the LDS are righteous and have enough of the light of Christ in them, as well as the Holy Ghost, so as to not be deceived, and to be as one, as Christ stated, and therefore be one with the mind and will of God (see the statement below)! My guess is that the revelation which you are referring to was really no revelation at all. Wilford Woodruff, who was a close associate of Brigham Young, drafted a letter, and it was finally written by Joseph F. Smith, and it stated:

"President Young no doubt stated his personal opinion or view upon the subject. What he said was not given as revelation or commandment from the Lord {even though I think Brigham Young, misunderstanding some of Joseph's revelations, thought that it was, at least for a good while}. The doctrine was never given to the councils of the priesthood nor to the church for approval or ratification, and was never formally or otherwise accepted by the church. It is therefore in no sense binding upon the church."

Your statement reminds me of a man who was very angry with the bishop and the council, including the stake president, who excommunicated his brother for a sexual transgression involving an underage girl. The angry brother claimed he had received a personal revelation from the spirit that his brother was innocent. Finally, the bishop counseled with him and told him frankly that all those worthy men had carefully and prayerfully examined the case, and they were led by the Spirit to the unanimous conclusion that his brother was guilty. Finally the brother realized that the personal revelation he received was from the wrong ACCUSING spirit!

Another witness, yet another prophet, has added his testimony to other true prophets and apostles, and he is Spencer W. Kimball.

"We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the scriptures and which are alleged (truly) to have been taught by some of the general authorities of past generations. Such for instance is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that every one will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine."

gdemetz, can you please stop being so apostate and quoting from a false prophet - Spencer W Kimball. He taught that men and women can become Gods and have their own planets.

The Church has announced that this is not official LDS Church doctrine and not what the Church teaches.

Just stick to what the current Prophet and leadership is teaching. Forget about anything said by previous Prophets.

You are teaching doctrines which are not official LDS CHURCH doctrines. Repent and bring yourself in line with the current Church leadership.

[LukeAir2008captain of 1,000]

You don't understand. A wicked and ignorant church membership does not apply to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints! There are ignorant members, and there are even some wicked members. However, the majority of the LDS are righteous and have enough of the light of Christ in them, as well as the Holy Ghost, so as to not be deceived, and to be as one, as Christ stated, and therefore be one with the mind and will of God (see the statement below)! My guess is that the revelation which you are referring to was really no revelation at all. Wilford Woodruff, who was a close associate of Brigham Young, drafted a letter, and it was finally written by Joseph F. Smith, and it stated:

"President Young no doubt stated his personal opinion or view upon the subject. What he said was not given as revelation or commandment from the Lord {even though I think Brigham Young, misunderstanding some of Joseph's revelations, thought that it was, at least for a good while}. The doctrine was never given to the councils of the priesthood nor to the church for approval or ratification, and was never formally or otherwise accepted by the church. It is therefore in no sense binding upon the church."

Your statement reminds me of a man who was very angry with the bishop and the council, including the stake president, who excommunicated his brother for a sexual transgression involving an underage girl. The angry brother claimed he had received a personal revelation from the spirit that his brother was innocent. Finally, the bishop counseled with him and told him frankly that all those worthy men had carefully and prayerfully examined the case, and they were led by the Spirit to the unanimous conclusion that his brother was guilty. Finally the brother realized that the personal revelation he received was from the wrong ACCUSING spirit!

Another witness, yet another prophet, has added his testimony to other true prophets and apostles, and he is Spencer W. Kimball.

"We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the scriptures and which are alleged (truly) to have been taught by some of the general authorities of past generations. Such for instance is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that every one will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine."

gdemetz, can you please stop being so apostate and quoting from a false prophet - Spencer W Kimball. He taught that men and women can become Gods and have their own planets.

The Church has announced that this is not official LDS Church doctrine and not what the Church teaches.

Just stick to what the current Prophet and leadership is teaching. Forget about anything said by previous Prophets.

You are teaching doctrines which are not official LDS CHURCH doctrines. Repent and bring yourself in line with the current Church leadership.

[iamse7encaptain of 1,000]

gdemetz, can you please stop being so apostate and quoting from a false prophet - Spencer W Kimball. He taught that men and women can become Gods and have their own planets.

The Church has announced that this is not official LDS Church doctrine and not what the Church teaches.

Just stick to what the current Prophet and leadership is teaching. Forget about anything said by previous Prophets.

You are teaching doctrines which are not official LDS CHURCH doctrines. Repent and bring yourself in line with the current Church leadership.

Haha. It's funny that when you set the boundaries of what truth and doctrine are, and those same standards are applied back to you, you end up having yourself boxed in by those boundaries. Very clever...

Maybe Spencer W. Kimball was misquoted? There's no way he'd ever teach something that the Church now feels to distance itself from! MISQUOTE!

[Legioncaptain of 1,000]

Okay... I think i found the quotes. They aren't as explicit as I remember, but it's the same basic gist.

We have talked to the brethren and sisters a great deal with regard to sustaining ourselves and ceasing this outside trade. Now what say you, are you for it as well as we? Are we of one heart and one mind on this subject? We can get what we wish by sending to New York for it ourselves, as well as letting others send for us. We have skill and ability to trade for all we need; and if we have to send abroad we can send our agents to buy and bring home what we need. My feelings are that every man and woman who will not obey this counsel shall be severed from the Church, and let all who feel as I do lift up the right hand. [The vote was unanimous.] That is a pretty good vote. You who feel otherwise have the privilege of lifting up your hand to signify the same. I guess it was pretty nigh right. Joseph used to say, “When you get the Latter-day Saints to agree on any point, you may know it is the voice of God.” I knew this before, but now it is proven to the whole people. (JD 12:301)

A Bishop can try a man for a breach of moral conduct, but he cannot sit in judgment on controverted points of doctrine, for they are to be referred to those who hold the keys of the higher Priesthood, and their decision is the end of all strife.
In trying all matters of doctrine, to make a decision valid, it is necessary to obtain a unanimous voice, faith, and decision. In the capacity of a Quorum, the three First Presidents must be one in their voice—the Twelve Apostles must be unanimous in their voice, to obtain a righteous decision upon any matter that may come before them, as you may read in the Doctrine and Covenants. The Seventies may decide upon the same principle. Whenever you see these Quorums unanimous in their declaration, you may set it down as true. Let the Elders get together, being faithful and true; and when they agree upon any point, you may know that it is true. (JD 9:91-92)

Elder D. Todd Christofferson addressed that in this past conference -

At the same time it should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.”5 President Clark, quoted earlier, observed:

“To this point runs a simple story my father told me as a boy, I do not know on what authority, but it illustrates the point. His story was that during the excitement incident to the coming of [Johnston’s] Army, Brother Brigham preached to the people in a morning meeting a sermon vibrant with defiance to the approaching army, and declaring an intention to oppose and drive them back. In the afternoon meeting he arose and said that Brigham Young had been talking in the morning, but the Lord was going to talk now. He then delivered an address, the tempo of which was the opposite from the morning talk. …

“… The Church will know by the testimony of the Holy Ghost in the body of the members, whether the brethren in voicing their views are ‘moved upon by the Holy Ghost’; and in due time that knowledge will be made manifest.”6

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... t?lang=eng

...the key though being "in due time"....

[iamse7encaptain of 1,000]

In case this gets buried and there is someone here who knows the answer...

Here's another quote I'm looking for...

There are different variations of it (so it's bound to be folkloric), but either:

"Go out and do the work and be happy, or don't, and go to hell."
"Work hard and be happy, or don't and go to hell."

Can't find anything on teh netz.

[A Random Phrasecaptain of 1,000]

LukeAir2008, Hilarious!

iamse7en, I started searching for that in the JofD when I first saw your post, using the search terms "go to hell," thinking it would be easy to find because of the term not being used much. Not so. They used that term so often that I finally gave up.

btw, it's great having all of the JofD in one searchable document. (I can't remember where I got it, though, or I'd share.)

[gdemetzcaptain of 100]

LukeAir, you need to wake up and smell the roses. You call Spencer Kimball a false prophet, and then you call me an Apostate?! What does it take to wake you up? I have quoted from Joseph Smith, Wilford Woodruff, Joseph F. Smith, and others. Do you believe they were false prophets also? What church do you belong to anyway? I have never heard a true LDS call Spencer Kimball or Joseph F. Smith false prophets!

[A Random Phrasecaptain of 1,000]

gdemetz, Luke was being facetious. He was trying to make a point.