$BILLIONS EACH YEAR GO TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS? IS THIS OKAY?

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

Part 1


Part 2



Comments?

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

Everyone must be okay with it.

How many of us would like to receive 29,000+ dollars from the IRS, with only one or two dependents at home? At one time, early seventies, it took me a whole year to make that much. And even then, taxes were taken out. Now people can move in to a place and get thousands from the government, and they don't have to have a green card. What a deal!

[Visioncaptain of 100]

There is no such thing as an illegal alien. Ever since the North American Peace and Prosperity Partnership was signed the North American Union was formed effectively eliminating the borders.

Time to move on and fight to end the North American Union.

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

There is no such thing as an illegal alien. Ever since the North American Peace and Prosperity Partnership was signed the North American Union was formed effectively eliminating the borders.

Time to move on and fight to end the North American Union.

So would "undocumented persons" be more applicable? Either way, these people are sucking money out of government through a known loophole, and the documented persons are paying the bill. And Obama spends money like it grows on trees, rather, he prints money without any gold standard behind it, (if I said this correctly). I never really learned how money was valued nor what backs it up. If I had twenty dollars, that's all I cared about.

But the real issue is that someone gets thousands of US dollars, turns around and sends it to Mexico where it is turned into Pesos (or whatever). This in turn creates the further need to print more money in the US, because 4 Billion dollars per year has know been retained in Mexico.

How can our government pay its debts under this kind of activity? Our country is going down the crapper and we're ( the ones with wool pulled over our eyes) is helping by pulling the lever. Unless God steps in soon, I fear we'll all be in the sewer in the near future. People need to wake up and start squawking or we'll be in the middle of the whirlpool headed for enslavement.

I would think that a lot of Americans think the government is purposely bankrupting this country in order to allow socialism to take over. After all, this is one of the ways socialism is instituted.

[awar_ecaptain of 100]

The overall plan is to bankrupt the treasuries of all nations, which will usher in the NWO banking system. Nations will not own the currencies. Banksters will control everything and we will tighren our chains if we allow it to happen.

[durangoutcaptain of 1,000]

I makes me so mad I could spit.

You gotta realize that most people on this site are pro-illegal immigration. I still can't figure them out but whatever... The reason nothing is done about it is 1) it brings more voters for socialists and 2) it keeps business happy b/c illigals drive down real wages.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

Many Americans, hopefully most, can see that illegal immigration, with its devistating effects especially on our national wealth, moral fibre, and culture is contributing to making a shambles of America and will surely contribute to the alteration of our form of government. Many realize that certain elements of the U.S. FedGov are fomenting and supporting in various ways this influx of illegal immigrants, most obvious because of the FedGov's refusal to protect the U.S. borders as it is required to do by the U.S. Constitution.

Unfortunately, there are Americans, including many Mormons, who believe that righteousness and charity include supporting initiatives, programs and legislation that force others to involuntarily contribute to the welfare of others, including illegal immigrants.

But fortunately more and more Latter-day Saints are longing for and are working hard for a return of the principles of the original U.S. Constitution to government in America. And more and more of these people strongly disagree with those who believe that righteousness and charity include supporting initiatives, programs and legislation that force people to involuntarily contribute to the welfare of others. They realize that to contribute of one's own wealth to charity is righteous, but to use other people's wealth for charity is legalized plunder (a.k.a. theft).

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

Illegal Aliens, Endless Health Care Bills

Posted 01/06/2012 06:43 PM ET

Immigration: An illegal alien just completed 12 surgeries and a record 374-day stay in a Fresno hospital. For him, it was "free" health care. But for taxpayers, the hospital and patients who ultimately pay, it's another big bill.

Marco Antonio Fuentes had high praise the staff at Community Regional Medical Center who heroically saved his life after he came down with necrotic pancreatitis, a condition that destroyed his intestines. A medical team there rebuilt his gastrointestinal tract, monitored his progress and provided the best of care to him for more than a year.

And the cost? Somewhere in the millions, by all estimates. As an illegal immigrant, he didn't have to pay a thing. The taxpayers, the charity unit and the other patients will have to foot that bill. Fuentes didn't have a word of thanks for them.

Fuentes knew enough to recognize that health care is "free" to all illegals in the U.S. and, like millions of other illegals, already considers it an entitlement.

That's in part because the U.S. government signals it will tolerate illegal immigration, subsidize health care and educate children no matter what the voters say.

The vast influx of illegals without health care is one reason Community Regional is a "safety hospital."

That means it takes all comers — more than 1,000 a year, at a cost of $100 million — due to a 1986 judicial ruling that requires hospitals to take all visits to an emergency room, no matter how trivial their ailments or, in Fuentes' case, how complicated and costly.

Not surprisingly, under this no-pay setup the entire San Joaquin Valley has a severe doctor shortage.


The Fresno Bee reports that Fuentes had no insurance and his care came from the hospital's charity fund — whose largest component is "uncompensated" care.

Ultimately, taxpayers pay for this. Worse still, insured patients will in the end subsidize Fuentes' care — starting with that $400 they get charged for an aspirin.

Since Mexico encourages Fuentes and others to come here illegally, Fuentes' bill should be sent there. But which political leader would insist on such accountability? More to the point, who has the political will to enforce America's borders for America's taxpayers?

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

I can point to a few Arizona elected officials who stand out as having demonstrated the political will to enforce America's borders for America's taxpayers. In particular, State Senators Russell Pearce, Sylvia Allen, Don Shooter, Rick Murphy, Al Melvin, Steve Smith, Frank Antenori, Judy Burges, Ron Gould,Gail Griffith, Lori Klein, and Andy Biggs. Over in the "House" I don't know. Then there is Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio and Pinal County Paul Babeu.

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

I makes me so mad I could spit.

You gotta realize that most people on this site are pro-illegal immigration. I still can't figure them out but whatever... The reason nothing is done about it is 1) it brings more voters for socialists and 2) it keeps business happy b/c illigals drive down real wages.

Well, doesn't it reveal which God they follow? I don't care what they call it, people coming here illegally are a huge problem. Now their sucking huge amounts of money from our citizens, those who pay taxes and then have the tax money sent to Mexico never to be seen again. These people who think illegal immigration is good, truly need their head examined.

Some individuals say it is God sending them here and we should not interfere. I say hog-wash. God would not send people anywhere without, first, making it right in all aspects. He does not operate under the guise of doing good with underlining evil present.

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

I can point to a few Arizona elected officials who stand out as having demonstrated the political will to enforce America's borders for America's taxpayers. In particular, State Senators Russell Pearce, Sylvia Allen, Don Shooter, Rick Murphy, Al Melvin, Steve Smith, Frank Antenori, Judy Burges, Ron Gould,Gail Griffith, Lori Klein, and Andy Biggs. Over in the "House" I don't know. Then there is Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio and Pinal County Paul Babeu.

When the crap hits the fan we better expect a great division in the church. Prophets have made it clear that if members don't support the constitution as they do God's laws, they will be apt to condemnation. Bishops should be made to make their congregations aware of this.

Better yet, does the Holy Ghost ever reveal to our bishops the importance of constitutional support? Why don't we ever hear about such revelations to our church leaders at local levels?

The LDS's that will be stepping forward to save the Constitution have to come from somewhere, but from where and who?

[awar_ecaptain of 100]

God is no respecter of nations. Chosen people also incur his wrath at times.
This whole concept of legal versus illegal is merely a false flag item to keep the nation divided and therefore easier to manipulate, especially in an election year.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

From the D&C and statements by past prophets and apostle I conclude that the principles of the Constitution are intended to be applied to the entire human race, and are to endure forever. I believe that the Lord intended for the U.S. Constitution and its principles to be first established and take root in the United States, and then thru the example set in this country become a beacon such that people in other countries would become desirous of the same republican form of government and strive to attain such. Unfortunately, the exact opposite in happening. Our government is becoming ever more like the governments of the countries where immigrants are coming from.

Illegal immigration, with its devistating effects especially on our national wealth, moral fibre, and culture is contributing to making a shambles of America and will surely contribute to the planned and ongoing alteration of our form of government. It is very clear to me that certain elements of the U.S. FedGov, including recent presidents and members of Congress, are fomenting and supporting in various ways this influx of illegal immigrants, most obviously because of the FedGov's refusal to protect the U.S. borders as it is required to do by the U.S. Constitution.

[awar_ecaptain of 100]

Our constitution was in trouble by the time the church was restored. In 1913 the die was cast to end the republic. When the words of prophets ceased their cries of warning, we had been absorbed into the communist manifesto.

[Visioncaptain of 100]

There is no such thing as an illegal alien. Ever since the North American Peace and Prosperity Partnership was signed the North American Union was formed effectively eliminating the borders.

Time to move on and fight to end the North American Union.

So would "undocumented persons" be more applicable? Either way, these people are sucking money out of government through a known loophole, and the documented persons are paying the bill. And Obama spends money like it grows on trees, rather, he prints money without any gold standard behind it, (if I said this correctly). I never really learned how money was valued nor what backs it up. If I had twenty dollars, that's all I cared about.

But the real issue is that someone gets thousands of US dollars, turns around and sends it to Mexico where it is turned into Pesos (or whatever). This in turn creates the further need to print more money in the US, because 4 Billion dollars per year has know been retained in Mexico.

How can our government pay its debts under this kind of activity? Our country is going down the crapper and we're ( the ones with wool pulled over our eyes) is helping by pulling the lever. Unless God steps in soon, I fear we'll all be in the sewer in the near future. People need to wake up and start squawking or we'll be in the middle of the whirlpool headed for enslavement.

I would think that a lot of Americans think the government is purposely bankrupting this country in order to allow socialism to take over. After all, this is one of the ways socialism is instituted.

Freedom I don't log on very often so sorry for the delayed repsonse.

You are stuck in the trap of the left/right paradigm that is propagated by the media(government arm) to divide the masses. There is no label to apply to the citizens of the North American Union. We are all citizens of the same Union now and the money that is generated is everyone in the Union's money. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Republicans and conservative talk show hosts are doing the job they are supposed to do by triangulating the right side of the population.

Time to re-evaluate your thinking.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

I find nothing very wrong with FreedomFighter's thinking. I am one of the relatively few Americans who think that elements within our government are purposely bankrupting this country in order to allow socialism to take over. The John Birch Society has been keeping very close tabs on the progress of the North American Union, and although it is not at the top of my list of things to ooppose, I recognize, as does Vision, that the NAU may be closer that I realize to being sprung on us.

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

There is no such thing as an illegal alien. Ever since the North American Peace and Prosperity Partnership was signed the North American Union was formed effectively eliminating the borders.

Time to move on and fight to end the North American Union.

So would "undocumented persons" be more applicable? Either way, these people are sucking money out of government through a known loophole, and the documented persons are paying the bill. And Obama spends money like it grows on trees, rather, he prints money without any gold standard behind it, (if I said this correctly). I never really learned how money was valued nor what backs it up. If I had twenty dollars, that's all I cared about.

But the real issue is that someone gets thousands of US dollars, turns around and sends it to Mexico where it is turned into Pesos (or whatever). This in turn creates the further need to print more money in the US, because 4 Billion dollars per year has know been retained in Mexico.

How can our government pay its debts under this kind of activity? Our country is going down the crapper and we're ( the ones with wool pulled over our eyes) is helping by pulling the lever. Unless God steps in soon, I fear we'll all be in the sewer in the near future. People need to wake up and start squawking or we'll be in the middle of the whirlpool headed for enslavement.

I would think that a lot of Americans think the government is purposely bankrupting this country in order to allow socialism to take over. After all, this is one of the ways socialism is instituted.

Freedom I don't log on very often so sorry for the delayed repsonse.

You are stuck in the trap of the left/right paradigm that is propagated by the media(government arm) to divide the masses. There is no label to apply to the citizens of the North American Union. We are all citizens of the same Union now and the money that is generated is everyone in the Union's money. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Republicans and conservative talk show hosts are doing the job they are supposed to do by triangulating the right side of the population.

Time to re-evaluate your thinking.

As far as I'm concerned there is no right, no left, no Conservatives, no Republicans, no Democrats or North American Union. What there is is a bunch of people either following what God wants, or what Satan wants. There is nothing in between. What it looks like is that Satan is winning. Anyone attempting to divide the public with distorted views and blatant lies is on Satan's side. Those who want freedom, liberty and the right to own and bear arms and to own property in peace and with respect for others is on God's side.

God tells us that ANYTHING that is wrong comes from Lucifer and ANYTHING that is right...comes from God...no matter how minute it may be on either side.

Alma 5:40,41
40 For I say unto you that whatsoever is good cometh from God, and whatsoever is evil cometh from the devil.
41Therefore, if a man bringeth forth good works he hearkeneth unto the voice of the good shepherd, and he doth follow him; but whosoever bringeth forth evil works, the same becometh a child of the devil, for he hearkeneth unto his voice, and doth follow him.

Now you tell me I'm wrong. You tell me that anyone, no matter what they are labeled that seeks or even condones wrongful acts toward their fellow man in any form isn't being led around by the nose by Lucifer. You tell me that anything done by those who love God and have His interests in mind aren't being led by God. Anything that is laid in place to enslave, tear down or weaken one's freedom is of Evil, plain and simple.

1 Nephi 14:3
3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.

1 Nephi 22:14
14 And every nation which shall war against thee, O house of Israel, shall be turned one against another, and they shall fall into the pit which they digged to ensnare the people of the Lord. And all that fight against Zion shall be destroyed, and that great whore, who hath perverted the right ways of the Lord, yea, that great and abominable church, shall tumble to the dust and great shall be the fall of it.

2 Nephi 10:16
16 Wherefore, he that fighteth against Zion, both Jew and Gentile, both bond and free, both male and female, shall perish; for they are they who are the whore of all the earth; for they who are not for me are against me, saith our God.

Anyone, that has and is aware of God's laws, that goes against God is part of the WHORE. Anyone seeking love, peace, respect for one another and freedom is of God.

The influx of undocumented immigrants coming into this country and sucking on every government udder that provides them with freebees, and a government that is setting itself up as a force to be feared by Christians, is by any measure...wrong.

How many truly consider how Patrick Henry felt, or any of the Founders, concerning freedom and liberty, and what it takes to maintain it?

I'm sorry but I do not need to re-evaluate my thinking.

I may not have worded this perfectly, but the scriptures speak for themselves.

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

I find nothing very wrong with FreedomFighter's thinking. I am one of the relatively few Americans who think that elements within our government are purposely bankrupting this country in order to allow socialism to take over. The John Birch Society has been keeping very close tabs on the progress of the North American Union, and although it is not at the top of my list of things to ooppose, I recognize, as does Vision, that the NAU may be closer that I realize to being sprung on us.

[Squallycaptain of 1,000]

I saw this kind of garbage going on all the way back in 1991 when I was working construction. One of my co-workers was an illegal immigrant. He and his father were here working and sending all their money back to Mexico. He told me that he only needed to work six more years at his current wages, and he and his father would have enough money saved to live like wealthy retired doctor's when he returned home. He and his father planned on living the upper middle class life when they returned to their country. The best part was that he had 12 fake children on his tax withholding forms. He had zero taxes taken out. And he was only 19 years old (with no children/Dependants). He would laugh at me when he would ask to compare tax withholding on our paychecks. He laughed about the amount of taxes all the rest of us legal guys were paying. He could work one third less than me and make just as much take home. The construction company we worked for hired illegals, just as long as they had fake id's and fake social security cards. It was common practice. I asked him if he was scared of getting caught for his fraud. He told me NO. He explained that only legal citizens need to be scared of breaking laws, he would never go to jail. He explained to me that he had been caught once for fraud for getting benefits with fake dependants and fake stolen ID. He was given a ride back to Mexico. He was back in less than a week with a new identy. And he ended up with an even better job.

And by the way, I was making $1,000+ a week back then, and so were these illegals working along side of me. It had nothing to do with illegals taking jobs that nobody would take. That is a lie. These jobs were in extremely high demand by legal Americans. So now it just continues with tax credits and child tax credits on top along with no taxes withheld and free insurance along with welfare. Beautiful. The noose in around our necks.

Another conundrum is with the church regarding illegals and their seeming support, along with their lobbying in behalf of the illegals last year in UT. With illegal immigrants, we have some baptisms/growth here in America. Perhaps the temptation is that if you were to take away the illegals, our church would stagnate, perhaps decline here in the US (in regards to real growth). But the cost to the everage citizen is real.

[awar_ecaptain of 100]

Freedom Fighter & Squally:
I share many of your thoughts and feelings about our Awful Situation, which we have been told that we need to become aware of.
The word LAW has been so perverted during my lifetime that few understand that laws were to be created by elected legislative bodies and not by a bunch of leeches who have been given authority by some idiot who imagines he has power beyond the constraints of the constitution.
When peace officers became LAW ENFORCEMENT thugs, we should have more closely examined what the so called laws of that day contained.

Propaganda from satan's minions has changed our once polite and educated society to more closely resemble a herd of rats, whose nature is to turn on each other whenever they feel a need to do so.
George Bush was stating more truth than most care to realize, when he railed against the constitution as being just a G** D*** piece of paper and held no power of constraint on his actions.
The Founders' constitution was long ago neutered as we continued to hang on every decision handed down by a NOT SO supreme court. Those clowns in Halloween costumes are a disgrace to this nation's founders.

If we had not allowed the govt schools to become the quagmire of money wasting propaganda weapons which created a mind set of whatever we are told is truth, we might still have a God fearing/ God loving nation which we once had.
We are not in a state of dishevelment due to illegal immigrants. We are in this state due to an illegal govt which is demanding the confiscation of our remaining assets by way of our adhering to the planks of the Communist Manifesto. We have become so brainwashed that we accept the terms undocumented or illegal workers as being some sort of national threat for outside our birders, when in reality the threat is from within our govt as they desire more workers, drugs and disruptions to enter the land.

Our gadianton leaders are using any trick that they can muster to crash the monetary systems of the world in order to more completely enslave us and maintain our debtors prison existence. Ask most college grads, when do they expect to be debt free? They have been sold a pack of lies about how valuable college degrees are for their future, and if they just incur $100,000 in loans, they will be rich in a few months after graduation.
There are now companies who look with suspicion on those with a diploma and no actual work experience, such as a graduate would have if they had not relied on loans instead of work to pay for their diploma. The crop of last months graduates from the University where I work, is now 50% unemployed three weeks after graduation. We now hear great lamentations from many sources about the pathetic plight of students with debt and how we MUST do something to cancel those debts. A good start would be cancelling the Fed Reserve and the bank charters of the banks which hold that debt. Their actions in this mess, would in past years be called, Larceny by deceit.
We used to be reminded regularly that if our nation falls, it will be from actions within govt.
I wonder how many will decide to cast aside proper principles of govt and cast a vote for the lessor of 2 evils?
How many recognize that this has been the norm since LBJ and probably back to Lincoln?

[freedomfightercaptain of 1,000]

Freedom Fighter & Squally:
I share many of your thoughts and feelings about our Awful Situation, which we have been told that we need to become aware of.
The word LAW has been so perverted during my lifetime that few understand that laws were to be created by elected legislative bodies and not by a bunch of leeches who have been given authority by some idiot who imagines he has power beyond the constraints of the constitution.
When peace officers became LAW ENFORCEMENT thugs, we should have more closely examined what the so called laws of that day contained.

Propaganda from satan's minions has changed our once polite and educated society to more closely resemble a herd of rats, whose nature is to turn on each other whenever they feel a need to do so.
George Bush was stating more truth than most care to realize, when he railed against the constitution as being just a G** D*** piece of paper and held no power of constraint on his actions.
The Founders' constitution was long ago neutered as we continued to hang on every decision handed down by a NOT SO supreme court. Those clowns in Halloween costumes are a disgrace to this nation's founders.

If we had not allowed the govt schools to become the quagmire of money wasting propaganda weapons which created a mind set of whatever we are told is truth, we might still have a God fearing/ God loving nation which we once had.
We are not in a state of dishevelment due to illegal immigrants. We are in this state due to an illegal govt which is demanding the confiscation of our remaining assets by way of our adhering to the planks of the Communist Manifesto. We have become so brainwashed that we accept the terms undocumented or illegal workers as being some sort of national threat for outside our birders, when in reality the threat is from within our govt as they desire more workers, drugs and disruptions to enter the land.

Our gadianton leaders are using any trick that they can muster to crash the monetary systems of the world in order to more completely enslave us and maintain our debtors prison existence. Ask most college grads, when do they expect to be debt free? They have been sold a pack of lies about how valuable college degrees are for their future, and if they just incur $100,000 in loans, they will be rich in a few months after graduation.
There are now companies who look with suspicion on those with a diploma and no actual work experience, such as a graduate would have if they had not relied on loans instead of work to pay for their diploma. The crop of last months graduates from the University where I work, is now 50% unemployed three weeks after graduation. We now hear great lamentations from many sources about the pathetic plight of students with debt and how we MUST do something to cancel those debts. A good start would be cancelling the Fed Reserve and the bank charters of the banks which hold that debt. Their actions in this mess, would in past years be called, Larceny by deceit.
We used to be reminded regularly that if our nation falls, it will be from actions within govt.
I wonder how many will decide to cast aside proper principles of govt and cast a vote for the lessor of 2 evils?
How many recognize that this has been the norm since LBJ and probably back to Lincoln?

Thank you awar_e. You've brought up many points that I believe as well. It's great when minds can come together and through a combination of thoughts, be able to come up with a profound statement that can have a huge impact on those who will eventually wake up and smell the roses. I also admire Lundbaek for his comments as well, as his comments are based on research, experience and knowledge, not guesswork nor judgmental criticism.

So I thank all of you for your comments. I'm still learning, and I would rather learn truth and facts than hype. I also thank you, Awar_e, for commenting on the Communist Manifesto, it being the root of the country's demise. I think there are 14 Planks, correct? And President Benson did say that if America falls, it will be Americans that cause it. That is because they continue to sleep and the Constitution is turning into toilet paper.

If we were to have a huge mixing bowl, what are all the ingredients that could be mixed in to come up with a total collapse of America.

Undocumented immigrants is one.
A push for Socialism is another.
Obamacare another.
Sleeping and apathetic LDS is also one.
Taking from the rich and giving it to the poor without consent.
Plunder.

What could be added? Please continue the list and maybe we can print up something to pass out to those in church that are sleeping, or just don't care.

Sites that may be of interest.
http://constitution.org/c5/index.php
http://guides.lib.virginia.edu/TJ
http://www.inspiredconstitution.org/cgi ... %20Plunder