Your home for discussing politics, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and the principles of liberty.
by DrJones » Mon May 14, 2012 11:11 pm
I've watched the decay of government in Mexico fueled by CIA drug smuggling and the corresponding drug war.
by Mark » Tue May 15, 2012 8:23 am
Legion wrote:Thomas wrote:Legion, I think it's great that you have the courage to challange your own beliefs. This is the path to true knowledge. I think we must always have an open mind. The belief we know something keeps us from progressing. However, I think you may be over analyzing things. You see wheels, within wheels, where others don't even see the wheels. Maybe that reflects a deeper understanding than I have.
I think AJ is a fear monger. There is no doubt he is. He is under contractual agreement to provide a show six days a week. He sells fear but that doesn't mean he isn't exactly who he says he is. I not saying he doesn't have an agenda. Everyone has one. Maybe he is part of some elaborate plan. I don't know, but it seems more complicated than it needs to be.
I think only about one in twenty Americans even know who AJ is. The Gadiatons may see him as a thorn in the side but not enough people are getting his message. Maybe half of the people who know of him beleive part of what he says and few beleive all he says. I think some go through a stage where there into him and then tune out because it's so negative at times. Killing him would only legitmize him in the eyes of those people. Maybe AJ's day is coming though.
Your mention of Hitler and his rise to power rings true. The fear was used to manipulate the people. Fear and hatered. I see a similar situation today. Hitler targeted the Jews. May didn't care when anti-semitic laws were passed. They weren't Jewish and felt like the laws didn't apply to them.
Hitler also played on the nation's predjudice. People like to hear they are better than somone else. Putting the Jews down and building the Germans up, dehumanized the Jews and the Germans allowed laws and policies to be put in place, they would otherwise rejected.
I have a friend who is a rabid Rush fan. When I talk to him about the NDAA Patriot Act or 9/11, he says it's all justified because of what the evil Arabs have done. He thinks we need the NDAA to keep them in line. Rush feeds him the propaganda and he swallows it up. Same as the German hating the Jew.
Hitler used the commies as his whipping boy too. the Riechstag fire and other false flag events to stir up fear and hatered of the commies. This also allowed Hitler and the Nazis to grab further power. It seems as this country is using the same play book(9/11) and who knows what's next.
The average person in this country doesn't have a clue about what you know and think people like AJ are crazy. I know more and more are questioning the status-quo but not nearly enough and we are well down the road to totalitarinism.
That's why I think the plan doesn't need to be that complicated. It's already suceeding. The fear you are talking about, for the average American, is for the Arabs, Iran, North Korea and others like Kony.
I won't rule out what you are saying though. I know you have spent a lot of time researching and have a great knowledge. The layers of the onion go deep. There are some that say AJ is controlled opposition.
Yes the communists were used as antagonists for political power. One particular useful idiot (Marinus van der Lubbe) happened to be bragging in a bar about burning down the Riechstag and actually went about it (though proven that he alone could not have done all the damage) thus providing the perfect opportunity for Hitler (Goering). We've seen our own recent examples of this over the past couple of decades.
I've watched the decay of government in Mexico fueled by CIA drug smuggling and the corresponding drug war. Mexican oil is protected by their Constitution. A decade or two back Exxon got close to getting that changed so that the globalists could move in but it fell apart prior to completion. Now it will likely occur via a US invasion at some point in the future.
It goes back to the Hegelian dialectic which, as I understand it, is essentially a multipronged attack and not necessarily limited to two options but expands out with additional options (heads of the beast). I see this with Ron Paul who provides another outlet to the left vs. right paradigm but if popular support moved in his direction he would only accomplish greater feats for the globalists with greater speed. The reduction of the government via privatization would move even greater power and control over to the global corporations. The competing currencies would undermine what's left of our national currency and pave the way for the use of global currency. Selling (to China/Russia?) off our land and infrastructure (gold holdings) would further exacerbate our situation. Reduction or complete removal of corporate and property taxes yet calling for more taxes to pay off the debt (somebody is going to foot the bill). His plan and agenda is essentially a feudalistic dream come true for the powers that be.
So to return to this example of promotion of police brutality propaganda....what type of situation does this create or foment and who stands to benefit? Is it like the situation in Mexico where drug lords and government are played against each other thus paving the way for a US take over?
What about the fear, anger and even hate for "the government"? The fueling of political passion to the point of causing hate for the opposition? Who wins and who loses?
I'm ashamed to admit in the past I have listened to conference but rarely if ever even completed reading the talks later. I've not truly appreciated the wisdom and counsel of those 15 men who are the Lord's anointed. I desired to change and thus after this past conference I burned the conference talks to CD. I listen to them in transit to work morning and night. I've gone through the same talks probably a dozen times over the past month. Each time I pick up some new little insight I had previously missed.
The latest has been this little quote from Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf -Jesus said it is easy to love those who love us; even the wicked can do that. But Jesus Christ taught a higher law. His words echo through the centuries and are meant for us today. They are meant for all who desire to be His disciples. They are meant for you and me: “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.”10
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... y?lang=eng
I thought about this in the political context. I quit praying for the leaders of our government some time ago. It used to disgust me (especially in the temple) when others would pray for government leaders or the military. I figured the military was engaged in unrighteous activities and had no business getting prayers as well as the men involved in perpetrating "the government".
Now I have considered praying for Obama. A man whom I disregarded with the highest disdain. A man, that to my knowledge, was brought up in the ways of wickedness (Frank Marshall Davis) and conspiracy (Mother and Grandfather worked for CIA front companies as he himself did later).
Is there hope that a mighty change could be wrought in not only his heart but my own? Other political leaders? Is it all past hope or is there a chance that repentance will indeed occur? Can the power of my prayers have an effect?This “mighty change”8 of heart is exactly what the gospel of Jesus Christ is designed to bring into our lives.
How is it done? Through the love of God.
When our hearts are filled with the love of God, something good and pure happens to us. We “keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world.”9
The more we allow the love of God to govern our minds and emotions—the more we allow our love for our Heavenly Father to swell within our hearts—the easier it is to love others with the pure love of Christ. As we open our hearts to the glowing dawn of the love of God, the darkness and cold of animosity and envy will eventually fade.
Is there another approach to instigating the kind of changes that I desire to see in our country and in our people that I've missed because I was blinded with fear and hate? I don't know....I'm still working through these thoughts. I anticipate that stimulus will be required to bring about repentance. To reap a little of what we have sown and thus decided that perhaps we should change our inputs in order to have a different output. To be obedient to law and to make that law align with God's law.
Ultimately we must unite and not be fractured. We must realize the purpose and wisdom in being obedient to God's law and then stand on that foundation of rock. I believe everything else will be naturally resolved in the course of accomplishing those two tasks.
by bobhenstra » Tue May 15, 2012 9:00 am
by Legion » Tue May 15, 2012 10:19 am
DrJones wrote:Legion:I've watched the decay of government in Mexico fueled by CIA drug smuggling and the corresponding drug war.
CIA drug smuggling? can you explain that a little?
I've suspected a CIA connection to afghani-opium, is there any evidence? Gen Petraeus while speaking at BYU basically skirted a question about why opium fields in Afg. have increased/prospered since the US invaded. He received a standing ovation IIRC. He is now the head of the CIA.
by Legion » Tue May 15, 2012 11:19 am
Mark wrote:I think you would enjoy Nibleys article "Beyond Politics" Bro. You may have already seen it before. It pretty well sums it up for me.
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publica ... ts/?id=162
A piece appeared in the press noting that businessmen are insisting with increasing zeal on searching the minds and the hearts of their employees by means of polygraph tests. If any arm of government30 were to go so far, they would be met by horrified protests at this vicious attack on individual freedom, and rightly so. What is it that gives ordinary businessmen a power greater than that of the government? It is the capacity for giving or withholding money—nothing else in the world. This is the weapon that Satan chose from the beginning to place him and his plans beyond politics, and it has worked with deadly effect. There is only one thing in man's world that can offer any check on the unlimited power of money—and that is government. That is why money always accuses government of trying to destroy free agency, when the great enslaver has always been money itself.
We do not have time here to review Satan's brilliant career in business and law: how he taught Cain the "great secret" of how to "murder and get gain" while claiming the noblest motive, "saying: I am free" (Moses 5:31, 33); how he inspired the Jaredites and then the Nephites "to seek for power, and authority, and riches" (3 Nephi 6:15); how he tried to buy off Abraham (in the Apocalypse of Abraham) and Moses and Jesus by promising them anything in the world if they would only worship him; how he coached Judas in the art of handling money; how he corrupts the Saints by covetousness and the things of the world; how his disciple, Simon Magus, offered Peter cash on the line for the Priesthood. To be beyond politics does not place one, in President John Taylor's words, "above the [rule] of Mammon."31 Only a celestial order can do that.
Largely because of this dominion, the human dialogue has a tendency, as many ancient writers observed, to deteriorate unless there is divine intervention;32 and since men normally insist on rejecting such intervention, the end result is periodic catastrophe. This is the standard message found in the apocalyptic literature. "Every system of civil polity invented by men, like their religious creeds, has been proved by experiment wholly inadequate to check the downward tendency of the human race."33
When this downward tendency passes the point of no return, the process accelerates beyond control, ending in general catastrophe, to be followed by God's intervention and a new dispensation. "Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments" (D&C 1:17). Joseph Smith intended to follow those commandments: "The object with me is to obey and teach others to obey God in just what He tells us to do."34 "One truth revealed from heaven is worth all the sectarian notions in existence."35 "A man is his own tormenter and his own condemner. . . . All will suffer until they obey Christ himself."36 "The sinner will slay the sinner, the wicked will fall upon the wicked, until there is an utter overthrow and consumption upon the face of the whole earth, until God reigns, whose right it is."37
Take that greatest of tragedies, Oedipus Rex. Oedipus had in his youth committed a terrible compound crime; but he had done it unknowingly and was therefore given every opportunity, not only to repent and be forgiven, but also to achieve higher glory than ever. The question was not whether or not he was guilty, but whether or not, being guilty, he would repent. At the beginning of the play, he drops hints that betray a subconscious awareness of his guilt; he, as the king, insists on a thorough investigation. Then, as more and more evidence accumulates against him, he insists even more loudly that he has done no wrong; he looks for one party and then another to fix the blame on, but each time it becomes clear that it could not have been that person. In the end even his wife cannot deny his guilt any longer and pleads with him to drop the case; his reply is to blame her for everything in a fantastically forced and vicious argument. When finally he is forced to recognize that he and he alone is the enemy he seeks, the results are terrible. His whole trouble is that he will not repent: after his meteoric career, his matchless fame, his unfailing cleverness, and strong character had held the reins of power for twenty years, he was in no mood to repent of everything. The last words spoken to him in the play are significant when his uncle (brother-in-law) Creon says to him: "Don't think you can be number one all the time."43 This is also the tragedy of Lear, that most tragic of tragedies, of Richard II, and of King Laertes in The Winter's Tale: each king, because he is the king, cannot tolerate the idea of repenting—that would be a fatal confession of weakness—and so each one digs himself deeper and deeper into a devastating situation from which he cannot escape: because the only escape hatch is repentance. In each case the trouble is the insistence on being Number One—and this takes us back to the primal tragedy and the character of Lucifer, whose example all our tragic figures are following. "Now, in this world," said Joseph Smith, "mankind are naturally selfish, ambitious and striving to excel. . . . Some seek to excel. And this was the case with Lucifer when he fell"44—he had to be Number One. Since all have sinned, there is no question of whether one has done wrong or not, but only of whether one will repent. But what is now the approved school solution? Since all have sinned, why should anybody be the goat? Why should anybody repent?
When President Harold B. Lee said that the Saints are above politics, he was referring to the brand of politics that prevails in the world today. "The government of heaven, if wickedly administered, would become one of the worst governments upon the face of the earth. No matter how good a government is, unless it is administered by righteous men, an evil government will be made of it."45 Men caught red-handed, charged, tried, confessed, and convicted, now come forth to plead innocent: they were merely carrying out orders, they were doing what everyone does, they have done no wrong. The winningest of slogans when the national conscience became burdened with the guilt of relentless shedding of innocent blood day after day, month after month, and year after year, could only be the slogan We have done no wrong! Any politician foolish enough to so much as hint at a need for repentance certainly was asking for the drubbing he would get. King Claudius and Macbeth were bloody villains, and they knew it, and even in their darkest hours speculated with a wild surmise on the possibility, however remote, of repentance and forgiveness. The fatal symptom of our day is not that men do wrong—they always have—and commit crimes, and even recognize their wrongdoing as foolish and unfortunate, but that they have no intention of repenting, while God has told us that the first rule that he has given the human race is that all men everywhere must repent.
The first issue of the Times and Seasons contained a lead editorial to the elders: "Be careful that you teach not for the word of God, the commandments of men, nor the doctrines of men nor the ordinances of men; . . . study the word of God and preach it, and not your opinions, for no man's opinion is worth a straw."52
....
There is the basic proposition: "The Spirit of God will . . . dwell with His people, and be withdrawn from the rest of the nations."53 Accordingly, among the Saints, "party feelings, separate interests, exclusive designs should be lost sight of in the one common cause, in the interest of the whole."54 If the world cannot accept such a proposition, we are still committed to it—wholly and irrevocably—whether we like it or not. "The government of the Almighty has always been very dissimilar to the governments of men. . . . [It] has always tended to promote peace, unity, harmony, strength, and happiness," while on the other hand "the greatest acts of the mighty men have been to depopulate nations and to overthrow kingdoms. . . . Before them the earth was a paradise, and behind them a desolate wilderness. . . . The designs of God, on the other hand, [are that] . . . 'the earth shall yield its increase, resume its paradisean glory, and become as the garden of the Lord.'"55
How you play the game of politics is important, but the game you are playing is also important. It is important to work, but what you work for is all-important. The Nephites, "by their industry" (Alma 4:6), obtained riches—which then destroyed them; "[for] the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish" (2 Nephi 26:31)—work does not satisfy wealth, as we try to make ourselves believe. The zeal and intelligence that our political commitments demand—to what should they be directed? At present we have a positive obsession with the economy—the economy is all. But the Lord told Samuel the Lamanite that when a people "have set their heart upon riches, . . . cursed be they and also their treasures" (Helaman 13:20).
but wisdom greater than man tells me that we are not playing the right game: "The world lieth in sin at this time and none doeth good no not one.56 The game is not going to last much longer. "They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall" (D&C 1:16; cf. 2 Nephi 9:30). According to Joseph Smith,
Ourselves, . . . our wives and children . . . have been made to bow down under . . . the most damning hand of murder, tyranny, and oppressions, supported and urged on and upheld by . . . that spirit which has so strongly riveted the creeds of the fathers, who have inherited lies, upon the hearts of the children, and filled the world with confusion, and has been growing stronger and stronger, and is now the very main-spring of all corruption, and the whole earth groans under the weight of its iniquity.57
This is our heritage.
The news of the world today reminds me of nothing so much as those bulletins which a short while ago were being issued by the doctors attending the late King Gustave of Sweden and by those treating Pablo Casals. The king was in his nineties, Casals, ninety-six; and both were very ill—what really good news could come out of the sickroom? That the patient had rested well? That he had had some lucid moments? That he had taken nourishment? Could any of that be called good news, hopeful news—in view of the inevitable news the world was waiting for? What is your own idea of an encouraging and cheering item in the news today? That the next Middle Eastern war has been postponed? That a new oil field has been discovered? "This physic but prolongs thy sickly days."58 We shall achieve lasting peace when we achieve eternal life. Politics has the same goal as the gospel: complete happiness. But to achieve that requires eternal life. The most painful thing in the world, says Joseph Smith, is the thought of annihilation;59 until that gnawing pain is relieved, all the rest is a forlorn and wistful game of make-believe. The solution of all our problems is the resurrection: only God knows the solution. Why not follow his advice? And only the gospel can remove that pain. The final relief of all our woes lies beyond all worldly politics. So when Joseph Smith says, "My feelings revolt at the idea of having anything to do with politics," he is not being high and mighty but putting his priorities in order. "I wish to be let alone," he says, "that I may attend strictly to the spiritual welfare of the church."60 Specifically, "The object with me is to obey and teach others to obey God in just what He tells us to do."61 "For one truth revealed from heaven is worth all the sectarian notions in existence."62 And so he pursues his way: "It matters not to me if all hell boils over; I regard it only as I would the crackling of the thorns under a pot. . . . I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. . . . It will not be by sword or gun that this kingdom will roll on."63
Amid all the revolutions that are taking place among the nations, the elders will ever pursue an undeviating course in being subject to the government wherever they may be, and sustain the same by all their precepts to the Saints, having nothing to do with political questions which engender strife, remembering that the weapons of their warfare are not carnal but spiritual, and that the Gospel which they preach is not of man but from heaven."65 "As for politics, we care nothing about them one way or the other, although we are a political people. . . . It is the Kingdom of God or nothing with us."66 The kingdom is beyond politics—one way or the other—that is, it is beyond partisan party politics.
On the last night of a play the whole cast and stage crew stay in the theater until the small or not-so-small hours of the morning, striking the old set. If there is to be a new opening soon, as the economy of the theater requires, it is important that the new set should be in place and ready for the opening night; all the while the old set was finishing its usefulness and then being taken down, the new set was rising in splendor to be ready for the drama that would immediately follow. So it is with this world. It is not our business to tear down the old set—the agencies that do that are already hard at work and very efficient; the set is coming down all around us with spectacular effect. Our business is to see to it that the new set is well on the way for what is to come—and that means a different kind of politics, beyond the scope of the tragedy that is now playing its closing night. We are preparing for the establishment of Zion.
by Original_Intent » Tue May 15, 2012 11:55 am
DrJones wrote:Legion:I've watched the decay of government in Mexico fueled by CIA drug smuggling and the corresponding drug war.
CIA drug smuggling? can you explain that a little?
I've suspected a CIA connection to afghani-opium, is there any evidence? Gen Petraeus while speaking at BYU basically skirted a question about why opium fields in Afg. have increased/prospered since the US invaded. He received a standing ovation IIRC. He is now the head of the CIA.
by Thomas » Tue May 15, 2012 12:30 pm
by Legion » Tue May 15, 2012 1:00 pm
Thomas wrote:There have beeen major drug dealers reveal that their suppliers were within the the federal government. Freeway Ricky Ross and others. Of course, main stream media doesn't give them much attention.
Frank Serpico, who is still around, has plenty to say on this subject as well. He has been on the Alex Jones show last year and had a movie made about him, starring Al Panchino, in the seventies. Serpico is trying to spread the word about how much corruption there is within law enforcment, at every level, in the drug trade.
Law enforcement is there, to protect their own trade and arrest competiors.
THE "BOSS HOG" LIST
One of the most flamboyant individuals involved in the cocaine trail from Columbia through Honduras to Panama and on into the United States, was Barry Seal. Seal flew an assortment of aircraft, offloading shipments of weapons in South America and picking up deliveries of cocaine for his return flight to the US on behalf of Col. North's Enterprise. His primary base of operations was Mena Airport, Arkansas.
A CIA "asset", Seal was later arrested and became a DEA informer. Prior to his killing in 1986 - allegedly by a Medellín cartel assassination squad in revenge for informing on them - Seal openly boasted he had information that implicated high-level government officials, including then-Vice President Bush, in the Enterprise's narcotics-trafficking business.
Tatum would soon get to meet Barry Seal and become close friends. Tatum recalls being present during a meeting between Oliver North, Felix Rodríguez, Amiram Nir and General Alvarez from Honduras, when North stated that Vice President Bush was going to have his son Jeb arrange "something out of Columbia". This conversation focused on Barry Seal's increasingly notorious activities. When Tatum later heard Seal had died, he immediately understood who was behind the killing. The discussion also made it clear that VP Bush, Governor Clinton and his three respective "handlers" were knee-deep in the cocaine venture and making fistloads of money.
Unknown to all those present, Seal had earlier provided Tatum with a list of names of those high-level government officials deeply involved with or responsible for controlling the narcotics business. Seal called them the "Boss Hogs". Tatum has kept this list a tightly-held secret until recent weeks. The list cites the surnames only, and is reproduced above, as I received it, complete with misspellings as written. I have appended their full names and titles in brackets.
"BOSS HOGS" - UNITED STATES
Casey (William Casey, Director Central Intelligence)
Clair-George (Clair Elroy George, Head of CIA's Central American Task Force)
Bush (Vice President George Bush)
Kissinger (Dr Henry Kissinger, Chairman, Kissinger Associates; former US Secretary of State; former National Security Adviser)
Haig (General Alexander Haig, former Secretary of State)
Greg (Donald Gregg, former National Security Adviser to VP Bush, Ambassador to Korea and alleged joint "Controller" of Panama's Manuel Noriega, along with William Casey)
Clairage (Duane "Dewey" Clarradge, CIA)
Fernandez (Joseph Fernandez, CIA Costa Rica Station Chief)
North (Lt Col. Oliver North, National Security Council aide)
Singlaub (John Singlaub, CIA covert operator)
Colby (William Colby, Director Central Intelligence, 1973-76)
Secord (Richard V. Secord, regarded as a "brilliant" CIA black operative)
Weld (William Weld, head of Criminal Division, US Department of Justice; instrumental in "blocking" Senate investigations into narcotics, according to testimony of former Senate special investigator, Jack Blum)
Rodriguez (Felix Rodríguez, CIA officer with close connection to VP Bush)
Peroot (General Peroot, Defense Intelligence Agency)
Most, if not all of these names are readily familiar to Contragate investigators and journalists covering this story. Allegations regarding the involvement of former President George Bush in the cocaine business are by no means new - they abound in plentiful supply. The fact that Bush pardoned a number of his closest advisors, who were facing criminal prosecution and possible imprisonment, late on Christmas Eve 1992, just weeks before Bill Clinton's inauguration, left a sour taste in the mouths of many. If prosecuted, they clearly would have fingered the President himself.
by moonwhim » Fri May 18, 2012 1:11 pm
Legion wrote:I have also believed for a long time that the government was the ultimate problem and if we could only get rid of the government (really those in power) then our problems would be resolved. As I've changed my perspective on the power of the voice of the people my views have changed on that as well. Really its the people that need to change first....and then governmental changes will follow. I've found myself reconciled to the church's viewpoint and priority on missionary work.
by Legion » Fri May 18, 2012 2:56 pm
moonwhim wrote:Legion wrote:I have also believed for a long time that the government was the ultimate problem and if we could only get rid of the government (really those in power) then our problems would be resolved. As I've changed my perspective on the power of the voice of the people my views have changed on that as well. Really its the people that need to change first....and then governmental changes will follow. I've found myself reconciled to the church's viewpoint and priority on missionary work.
I have seen you come to this conclusion a couple of times before since you have been on this forum: that missionary work is the only thing that is advocated now by the Church and is what we should be focused on. I think this decision could be based on your frustration in trying to wake people up to the secret combinations. You have a gift in ferreting out this type of info, but I guess you haven't yet realized what your particular calling is in this life. I would say that your calling is to help people"awake to their awful situation." But you have to determine what God would have you do. And there is no reason that you couldn't do both, unless, of course, the spirit dictates such.
by Legion » Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:40 pm
Legion wrote:Mark wrote:I think you would enjoy Nibleys article "Beyond Politics" Bro. You may have already seen it before. It pretty well sums it up for me.
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publica ... ts/?id=162
I haven't seen it prior to this day. That is one meaty piece. Nuggets of knowledge and truth scattered throughout. Thank you very much!!!
If I had to choose just one piece though....this would be it -A piece appeared in the press noting that businessmen are insisting with increasing zeal on searching the minds and the hearts of their employees by means of polygraph tests. If any arm of government30 were to go so far, they would be met by horrified protests at this vicious attack on individual freedom, and rightly so. What is it that gives ordinary businessmen a power greater than that of the government? It is the capacity for giving or withholding money—nothing else in the world. This is the weapon that Satan chose from the beginning to place him and his plans beyond politics, and it has worked with deadly effect. There is only one thing in man's world that can offer any check on the unlimited power of money—and that is government. That is why money always accuses government of trying to destroy free agency, when the great enslaver has always been money itself.
We do not have time here to review Satan's brilliant career in business and law: how he taught Cain the "great secret" of how to "murder and get gain" while claiming the noblest motive, "saying: I am free" (Moses 5:31, 33); how he inspired the Jaredites and then the Nephites "to seek for power, and authority, and riches" (3 Nephi 6:15); how he tried to buy off Abraham (in the Apocalypse of Abraham) and Moses and Jesus by promising them anything in the world if they would only worship him; how he coached Judas in the art of handling money; how he corrupts the Saints by covetousness and the things of the world; how his disciple, Simon Magus, offered Peter cash on the line for the Priesthood. To be beyond politics does not place one, in President John Taylor's words, "above the [rule] of Mammon."31 Only a celestial order can do that.
Largely because of this dominion, the human dialogue has a tendency, as many ancient writers observed, to deteriorate unless there is divine intervention;32 and since men normally insist on rejecting such intervention, the end result is periodic catastrophe. This is the standard message found in the apocalyptic literature. "Every system of civil polity invented by men, like their religious creeds, has been proved by experiment wholly inadequate to check the downward tendency of the human race."33
When this downward tendency passes the point of no return, the process accelerates beyond control, ending in general catastrophe, to be followed by God's intervention and a new dispensation. "Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments" (D&C 1:17). Joseph Smith intended to follow those commandments: "The object with me is to obey and teach others to obey God in just what He tells us to do."34 "One truth revealed from heaven is worth all the sectarian notions in existence."35 "A man is his own tormenter and his own condemner. . . . All will suffer until they obey Christ himself."36 "The sinner will slay the sinner, the wicked will fall upon the wicked, until there is an utter overthrow and consumption upon the face of the whole earth, until God reigns, whose right it is."37
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publica ... ts/?id=162
.....and this one would be #2Take that greatest of tragedies, Oedipus Rex. Oedipus had in his youth committed a terrible compound crime; but he had done it unknowingly and was therefore given every opportunity, not only to repent and be forgiven, but also to achieve higher glory than ever. The question was not whether or not he was guilty, but whether or not, being guilty, he would repent. At the beginning of the play, he drops hints that betray a subconscious awareness of his guilt; he, as the king, insists on a thorough investigation. Then, as more and more evidence accumulates against him, he insists even more loudly that he has done no wrong; he looks for one party and then another to fix the blame on, but each time it becomes clear that it could not have been that person. In the end even his wife cannot deny his guilt any longer and pleads with him to drop the case; his reply is to blame her for everything in a fantastically forced and vicious argument. When finally he is forced to recognize that he and he alone is the enemy he seeks, the results are terrible. His whole trouble is that he will not repent: after his meteoric career, his matchless fame, his unfailing cleverness, and strong character had held the reins of power for twenty years, he was in no mood to repent of everything. The last words spoken to him in the play are significant when his uncle (brother-in-law) Creon says to him: "Don't think you can be number one all the time."43 This is also the tragedy of Lear, that most tragic of tragedies, of Richard II, and of King Laertes in The Winter's Tale: each king, because he is the king, cannot tolerate the idea of repenting—that would be a fatal confession of weakness—and so each one digs himself deeper and deeper into a devastating situation from which he cannot escape: because the only escape hatch is repentance. In each case the trouble is the insistence on being Number One—and this takes us back to the primal tragedy and the character of Lucifer, whose example all our tragic figures are following. "Now, in this world," said Joseph Smith, "mankind are naturally selfish, ambitious and striving to excel. . . . Some seek to excel. And this was the case with Lucifer when he fell"44—he had to be Number One. Since all have sinned, there is no question of whether one has done wrong or not, but only of whether one will repent. But what is now the approved school solution? Since all have sinned, why should anybody be the goat? Why should anybody repent?
When President Harold B. Lee said that the Saints are above politics, he was referring to the brand of politics that prevails in the world today. "The government of heaven, if wickedly administered, would become one of the worst governments upon the face of the earth. No matter how good a government is, unless it is administered by righteous men, an evil government will be made of it."45 Men caught red-handed, charged, tried, confessed, and convicted, now come forth to plead innocent: they were merely carrying out orders, they were doing what everyone does, they have done no wrong. The winningest of slogans when the national conscience became burdened with the guilt of relentless shedding of innocent blood day after day, month after month, and year after year, could only be the slogan We have done no wrong! Any politician foolish enough to so much as hint at a need for repentance certainly was asking for the drubbing he would get. King Claudius and Macbeth were bloody villains, and they knew it, and even in their darkest hours speculated with a wild surmise on the possibility, however remote, of repentance and forgiveness. The fatal symptom of our day is not that men do wrong—they always have—and commit crimes, and even recognize their wrongdoing as foolish and unfortunate, but that they have no intention of repenting, while God has told us that the first rule that he has given the human race is that all men everywhere must repent.
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publica ... ts/?id=162
...and can't leave out this nugget -The first issue of the Times and Seasons contained a lead editorial to the elders: "Be careful that you teach not for the word of God, the commandments of men, nor the doctrines of men nor the ordinances of men; . . . study the word of God and preach it, and not your opinions, for no man's opinion is worth a straw."52
....
There is the basic proposition: "The Spirit of God will . . . dwell with His people, and be withdrawn from the rest of the nations."53 Accordingly, among the Saints, "party feelings, separate interests, exclusive designs should be lost sight of in the one common cause, in the interest of the whole."54 If the world cannot accept such a proposition, we are still committed to it—wholly and irrevocably—whether we like it or not. "The government of the Almighty has always been very dissimilar to the governments of men. . . . [It] has always tended to promote peace, unity, harmony, strength, and happiness," while on the other hand "the greatest acts of the mighty men have been to depopulate nations and to overthrow kingdoms. . . . Before them the earth was a paradise, and behind them a desolate wilderness. . . . The designs of God, on the other hand, [are that] . . . 'the earth shall yield its increase, resume its paradisean glory, and become as the garden of the Lord.'"55
How you play the game of politics is important, but the game you are playing is also important. It is important to work, but what you work for is all-important. The Nephites, "by their industry" (Alma 4:6), obtained riches—which then destroyed them; "[for] the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish" (2 Nephi 26:31)—work does not satisfy wealth, as we try to make ourselves believe. The zeal and intelligence that our political commitments demand—to what should they be directed? At present we have a positive obsession with the economy—the economy is all. But the Lord told Samuel the Lamanite that when a people "have set their heart upon riches, . . . cursed be they and also their treasures" (Helaman 13:20).
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publica ... ts/?id=162but wisdom greater than man tells me that we are not playing the right game: "The world lieth in sin at this time and none doeth good no not one.56 The game is not going to last much longer. "They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall" (D&C 1:16; cf. 2 Nephi 9:30). According to Joseph Smith,
Ourselves, . . . our wives and children . . . have been made to bow down under . . . the most damning hand of murder, tyranny, and oppressions, supported and urged on and upheld by . . . that spirit which has so strongly riveted the creeds of the fathers, who have inherited lies, upon the hearts of the children, and filled the world with confusion, and has been growing stronger and stronger, and is now the very main-spring of all corruption, and the whole earth groans under the weight of its iniquity.57
This is our heritage.
The news of the world today reminds me of nothing so much as those bulletins which a short while ago were being issued by the doctors attending the late King Gustave of Sweden and by those treating Pablo Casals. The king was in his nineties, Casals, ninety-six; and both were very ill—what really good news could come out of the sickroom? That the patient had rested well? That he had had some lucid moments? That he had taken nourishment? Could any of that be called good news, hopeful news—in view of the inevitable news the world was waiting for? What is your own idea of an encouraging and cheering item in the news today? That the next Middle Eastern war has been postponed? That a new oil field has been discovered? "This physic but prolongs thy sickly days."58 We shall achieve lasting peace when we achieve eternal life. Politics has the same goal as the gospel: complete happiness. But to achieve that requires eternal life. The most painful thing in the world, says Joseph Smith, is the thought of annihilation;59 until that gnawing pain is relieved, all the rest is a forlorn and wistful game of make-believe. The solution of all our problems is the resurrection: only God knows the solution. Why not follow his advice? And only the gospel can remove that pain. The final relief of all our woes lies beyond all worldly politics. So when Joseph Smith says, "My feelings revolt at the idea of having anything to do with politics," he is not being high and mighty but putting his priorities in order. "I wish to be let alone," he says, "that I may attend strictly to the spiritual welfare of the church."60 Specifically, "The object with me is to obey and teach others to obey God in just what He tells us to do."61 "For one truth revealed from heaven is worth all the sectarian notions in existence."62 And so he pursues his way: "It matters not to me if all hell boils over; I regard it only as I would the crackling of the thorns under a pot. . . . I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. . . . It will not be by sword or gun that this kingdom will roll on."63Amid all the revolutions that are taking place among the nations, the elders will ever pursue an undeviating course in being subject to the government wherever they may be, and sustain the same by all their precepts to the Saints, having nothing to do with political questions which engender strife, remembering that the weapons of their warfare are not carnal but spiritual, and that the Gospel which they preach is not of man but from heaven."65 "As for politics, we care nothing about them one way or the other, although we are a political people. . . . It is the Kingdom of God or nothing with us."66 The kingdom is beyond politics—one way or the other—that is, it is beyond partisan party politics.
On the last night of a play the whole cast and stage crew stay in the theater until the small or not-so-small hours of the morning, striking the old set. If there is to be a new opening soon, as the economy of the theater requires, it is important that the new set should be in place and ready for the opening night; all the while the old set was finishing its usefulness and then being taken down, the new set was rising in splendor to be ready for the drama that would immediately follow. So it is with this world. It is not our business to tear down the old set—the agencies that do that are already hard at work and very efficient; the set is coming down all around us with spectacular effect. Our business is to see to it that the new set is well on the way for what is to come—and that means a different kind of politics, beyond the scope of the tragedy that is now playing its closing night. We are preparing for the establishment of Zion.
Thank you Mark!!!
An interesting little side note. The creator of the Palmoni Scrolls mentioned that an error in judgment had been made. That the interpretation was off. The basic premise being the coming together of the band of iron and the band of brass which he previously interpreted at the establishment of Zion....the combining of priesthood authority along with temporal authority. He now thinks that Mitt Romney is the impersonation of that coming together and that he will become our next president. I have my doubts. Time will tell the story though....but whatever may come it sure is an interesting story with many twists and changes which we don't perceive until after they arrive....and sometimes aren't even cognizant of them until after they've gone. Like the Restoration of the gospel while the world went on in its way....just 24 people in a log cabin.
by Rand » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:50 pm
by Legion » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:11 pm
Rand wrote:"I don't know. I'm thinking that it won't. I'm thinking that what is absolutely the most critical issue right now is one's relationship with the Savior as well as one's knowledge of and obedience to His commandments. Living day to day with the companionship and guidance of the Spirit of God. Am I off track?"
Legion, I think you are exactly on track. I agree with you completely. Sharing the Gospel, building the Kingdom; by building your own spiritual reservoir while helping your family do the same is the best thing to do. Be in the Temple, establish Zion in your life and in your home. Be prepared to serve in what ever capacity may be asked of you. I agree with your comments on whether exposing the flaws in Babylon will make a difference or not. No, it won't. Build the Kingdom. It is your covenant. Your covenant is not to tear down the Great Whore, she and her minions will self destruct. We must establish Zion, now. I think you are doing right.
I will see you on the other side. I think my time here has worn thin. I lose too much each time I visit this site any more. I can't justify the time and the lost focus. Blessings
by HeirofNumenor » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:09 am
Sharing the Gospel, building the Kingdom; by building your own spiritual reservoir while helping your family do the same is the best thing to do. Be in the Temple, establish Zion in your life and in your home. Be prepared to serve in what ever capacity may be asked of you. I agree with your comments on whether exposing the flaws in Babylon will make a difference or not. No, it won't. Build the Kingdom. It is your covenant. Your covenant is not to tear down the Great Whore, she and her minions will self destruct. We must establish Zion, now. I think you are doing right.
by p51-mustang » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:56 am
Thomas wrote:BM5.
Hitler is one example but he could not do what he did alone. It took many psychopaths, in positions of power, to do what he did.The persucution and extermination of the Jews was carried not carried out by normal people. It was a truly inhumane agenda
Hitler is one example but is far from being unique. I could write a long list of others. but he is a short one: Kim Jong Il, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein. Just these five killed over eighty million , of their own innocent people combined. None of these people could do what they did, without having psychopaths already in power to do their bidding. The are countless others. The history of this earth probably has more psychopaths ruling, than not.
A government must have psychopaths rampant, throughout the ranks for these type of things to happen. They cannot be done by one individual
As far as being prepared to back up my claim, I am ready but as I said before, I will not provide any further proof to you. It is a waste of my time. Try thinking about our world and why things are the way they are. You must want to know something. You only want to know what fits into your pretty little picture.
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