EARTHQUAKES!

[Reginacaptain of 10]

How about Cedar City? Anyone know the pros and cons of this area?

[Robthe Sunbeam]

M3.7 in east Texas yesterday. Strange place for an earthquake.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usb0009m4g#summary

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

Does anyone know where there is an active LDS Community with abundant water available, not on a fault line, or in a probable earthquake zone, and not subject to violent weather patterns?

This area of Arizona has everything but the water in abundance. (If you can get a well to give you water, sometimes it is salty/undrinkable. There is a river nearby but the Apaches downstream lay claim to it. But the White Mountain area might fit the bill - Show Low area.)

Don't send everybody here!

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

So, theoretically, how can you just up and move? Are y'all independently wealthy or something? "I mean most "safe" places are far from humanity, so what do you do for a job? I mean if the Lord said gather some stuff and go, we'd go..but I havent gotten that dramatic of a response in my prayers yet. Mostly the promptings are more along the boy scout kind of answer of "be prepared".

The question was in the context of making a move, but clearly that isn't an option for everyone.

As for being wealthy, you don't have to have lots of money to move to a remote area... you just have to have lots of money to do that and maintain a posh standard of living. If you're really flexible about standard of living and you don't have much money or obligations, there are always ways of working with other people to live just fine in remote areas. I suppose worst-case scenario you could join up with one of the intentional communities (ic.org) that is looking for people to join them in exchange for labor.

But yeah, I suppose like anything in life moving to such an area would require hard work and/or sacrifice, like I suppose any other aspect of preparing "every needful thing" would involve... especially if you're one of us who hasn't been blessed financially to excess.

You've been kind of grouchy lately jonesde.

[jonesdecaptain of 1,000]

So, theoretically, how can you just up and move? Are y'all independently wealthy or something? "I mean most "safe" places are far from humanity, so what do you do for a job? I mean if the Lord said gather some stuff and go, we'd go..but I havent gotten that dramatic of a response in my prayers yet. Mostly the promptings are more along the boy scout kind of answer of "be prepared".

The question was in the context of making a move, but clearly that isn't an option for everyone.

As for being wealthy, you don't have to have lots of money to move to a remote area... you just have to have lots of money to do that and maintain a posh standard of living. If you're really flexible about standard of living and you don't have much money or obligations, there are always ways of working with other people to live just fine in remote areas. I suppose worst-case scenario you could join up with one of the intentional communities (ic.org) that is looking for people to join them in exchange for labor.

But yeah, I suppose like anything in life moving to such an area would require hard work and/or sacrifice, like I suppose any other aspect of preparing "every needful thing" would involve... especially if you're one of us who hasn't been blessed financially to excess.

You've been kind of grouchy lately jonesde.

Sorry about that. In this post I didn't mean to be grouchy or confrontational at all. Where did I go wrong?

[Robthe Sunbeam]

You've been kind of grouchy lately jonesde.

Sorry about that. In this post I didn't mean to be grouchy or confrontational at all. Where did I go wrong?

Yeah, I don't see it either. Sounds fine to me.

[HeirofNumenorthe Heir Of Numenor]

How about Cedar City? Anyone know the pros and cons of this area?

I lived there for 3 years in mid 1990's...

Cedar City is good...6,000 feet elevation. population about 15,000 with additional 5,000 college students.... mountains to east, with a canyon that leads to high mountain plateau...
decent rain, some snow.... lots of farming... not much industry though...mostly geared towards SUU and Shakespeare festival

Lots of good LDS...though younger may think there is nothing to do...
Old school people there are kinda cliquish - if you don't come from original pioneer stock, they tend to not want you in city leadership positions..

Also, I-15 runs right through it, up from St George.... possibility for concern from lots up people/refugees come up from St George/Vegas... or worse the military from Vegas area... but they'd have to get through Virgin River Gorge first....(hopefully it would be blocked in any occupation scenario)

[Reginacaptain of 10]

Thanks HeirofNumenor for this insight

[HeirofNumenorthe Heir Of Numenor]

you're welcome

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

You've been kind of grouchy lately jonesde.

Sorry about that. In this post I didn't mean to be grouchy or confrontational at all. Where did I go wrong?

Yeah, I don't see it either. Sounds fine to me.

Thats because you aren't a sensitive and caring guy Rob.

[SmallFarmcaptain of 1,000]

you're welcome

There's still hope for the english language.

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

You've been kind of grouchy lately jonesde.

jonesde: Sorry about that. In this post I didn't mean to be grouchy or confrontational at all. Where did I go wrong?

Y

Rob: Yeah, I don't see it either. Sounds fine to me.

Thats because you aren't a sensitive and caring guy Rob.

I don't see it either, Juliette, and I don't see why you are saying these "ad hominem" ("to the man" rather than "to the science") things about Rob and jonesde.

And perhaps we can get off of this business of calling people "grouchy" or not "sensitive or caring" without presented real evidence, and get back to the subject which is evidence-based? Please?

[Robthe Sunbeam]

Thanks for the heads up, Dr. Jones. I missed it. Juliette, the next time you want to throw an insult my way, please keep two things in mind: 1) you are supposedly a follower of Christ, and 2) I have blocked you.

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

You've been kind of grouchy lately jonesde.

jonesde: Sorry about that. In this post I didn't mean to be grouchy or confrontational at all. Where did I go wrong?

Y

Rob: Yeah, I don't see it either. Sounds fine to me.

Thats because you aren't a sensitive and caring guy Rob.

I don't see it either, Juliette, and I don't see why you are saying these "ad hominem" ("to the man" rather than "to the science") things about Rob and jonesde.

And perhaps we can get off of this business of calling people "grouchy" or not "sensitive or caring" without presented real evidence, and get back to the subject which is evidence-based? Please?

OK, no need to be ultra sensitive. I was more or less teasing jonesde because of his posts on " Am I a Bigot", which I started. He was pretty firm with me about that issue. Saying that Rob is not a sensitive and caring kind of guy, is also a joke. I put a wink after it. I giggled when I posted it.
Why don't you guys lighten up and stop taking yourselves so seriously? If you don't like me, then just man up and ignore me. Its my personality to tease and laugh. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it!

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

OK, no need to be ultra sensitive. I was more or less teasing jonesde because of his posts on " Am I a Bigot", which I started. He was pretty firm with me about that issue. Saying that Rob is not a sensitive and caring kind of guy, is also a joke. I put a wink after it.

Oh, "teasing" and joking, I see! hahahaha j/k

Back to earthquakes, there is an interesting lack in devastating (to people) earthquakes for quite a while... and nothing over = 6.9 for over a month now. Anyone else notice this?

# Magnitude 6.7 TONGA April 28, 2012
# Magnitude 6.6 NEAR THE NORTH COAST OF PAPUA, INDONESIA April 21, 2012
# Magnitude 6.8 EASTERN NEW GUINEA REG, PAPUA NEW GUINEA April 17, 2012
# Magnitude 6.7 OFFSHORE VALPARAISO, CHILE April 17, 2012
# Magnitude 6.5 VANUATU April 14, 2012
# Magnitude 6.9 GULF OF CALIFORNIA April 12, 2012
# Magnitude 6.5 MICHOACAN, MEXICO April 11, 2012
# Magnitude 5.9 OFF THE COAST OF OREGON April 11, 2012
# Magnitude 8.2 OFF THE WEST COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATRA April 11, 2012

[HeirofNumenorthe Heir Of Numenor]

Back to earthquakes, there is an interesting lack in devastating (to people) earthquakes for quite a while... and nothing over = 6.9 for over a month now. Anyone else notice this?

Actually, I did..and thought that was kind of surprising... I was getting used to all the 7. somethings we have been having over the last 3 years...

[Tribunalcaptain of 1,000]

Dr. Jones, and anyone in the know, what conclusions do you have on the state of our planet with reqards to earthquakes? I understand there's a hypothesis floating about a major quake happening every 188 days or so. Now you see a lack of major quakes. What do you believe is happening? Do you see any trends (other than the 188-day thing)?

[Robthe Sunbeam]

As for patterns, I think the quakes in Oklahoma & Texas are a result (direct/indirect, I have no clue) of gas drilling. I've been keeping up with them because we are personally affected by them. Go back a few years, and to feel an earthquake in Texas is essentially unprecedented. I have personally felt two in the past eight months.

The potential significance, imo, is the trigger effect. Could a fracking-induced quake in eastern Oklahoma cause the New Madrid fault to awaken from it's two hundred year slumber?

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

The potential significance, imo, is the trigger effect. -- Rob

I agree, and scientists are coming around to acknowledging the trigger effect. Along the same line, it is quite possible that some militaries possess EQ-triggering devices, as noted (for example) by Sec'y of Defense Cohen during the Clinton administration.

Jesus prophesied in Matthew 24 of famines, pestilences and earthquakes in divers places -- in the last days. Surely we can understand that not all famines or disease-epidemics are caused by God, but rather are man-caused. We know that withholding food from populations is one of the strategies of war, as is germ-warfare. But how about earthquakes? can not SOME of these also fall into the category of man-triggered? Scientifically, it is highly probable that this is the case (as I have delineated earlier in this thread).

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

Earthquakes Triggered by Dams


Earthquakes can be induced by dams. Globally, there are over 100 identified cases of earthquakes that scientists believe were triggered by reservoirs (see Gupta 2002). The most serious case may be the 7.9-magnitude Sichuan earthquake in May 2008, which killed an estimated 80,000 people and has been linked to the construction of the Zipingpu Dam.

How Do Dams Trigger Earthquakes?

In a paper prepared for the World Commission on Dams, Dr. V. P Jauhari wrote the following about this phenomenon, known as Reservoir-Induced Seismicity (RIS): "The most widely accepted explanation of how dams cause earthquakes is related to the extra water pressure created in the micro-cracks and fissures in the ground under and near a reservoir. When the pressure of the water in the rocks increases, it acts to lubricate faults which are already under tectonic strain, but are prevented from slipping by the friction of the rock surfaces."

Given that every dam site has unique geological characteristics, it is not possible to accurately predict when and where earthquakes will occur. However, the International Commission on Large Dams recommends that RIS should be considered for reservoirs deeper than 100 meters.

What Are Some Characteristics of RIS?

A leading scholar on this topic, Harsh K. Gupta, summarized his findings on RIS worldwide in 2002:
Depth of the reservoir is the most important factor, but the volume of water also plays a significant role in triggering earthquakes.

RIS can be immediately noticed during filling periods of reservoirs.
RIS can happen immediately after the filling of a reservoir or after a certain time lag.

Many dams are being built in seismically active regions, including the Himalayas, Southwest China, Iran, Turkey, and Chile (see map). International Rivers calls for a moratorium on the construction of high dams in earthquake-prone areas.

Click here for the factsheet on RIS worldwide.

[A Random Phrasecaptain of 1,000]

The potential significance, imo, is the trigger effect. -- Rob

Surely we can understand that not all famines or disease-epidemics are caused by God, but rather are man-caused. We know that withholding food from populations is one of the strategies of war, as is germ-warfare. But how about earthquakes? can not SOME of these also fall into the category of man-triggered? Scientifically, it is highly probable that this is the case (as I have delineated earlier in this thread).

And is it not possible that these man-made earthquakes could get out of control? That, like the sorcerer's apprentice, the man-triggered earthquakes turn out to be a lot worse than intended, triggering other quakes in unexpected areas, and backfiring on those who thought they had things under control?

[SkyBirdcaptain of 100]

I believe all earthquakes for this earth are caused by man. Let me explain: from a spiritual perspective the natural laws of physical mater obey the higher laws of spiritual collective consciousness. In other words if the masses of people on this planet are obeying the carnal natures of the flesh the outcome is that the elements of the earth and cosmos will honor the “intents of their hearts” collectively. So it is on an individual basis. We draw into ourselves what we “think and believe”. If we “think” we are going to die we will fulfill that prophesy. Think about the mortal children that grow up in the Millennium. It says they will grow up but they shall not sleep in the dust, but they shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye. Why is this? Because they will have chosen to live, “think and believe” on a higher and more divine plain than we are right now. The earth (elements, both within and the cosmos) therefor will honor their greater spiritual feelings and intent of heart. The earth will be as a Garden of Eden to them.

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

The potential significance, imo, is the trigger effect. -- Rob

Surely we can understand that not all famines or disease-epidemics are caused by God, but rather are man-caused. We know that withholding food from populations is one of the strategies of war, as is germ-warfare. But how about earthquakes? can not SOME of these also fall into the category of man-triggered? Scientifically, it is highly probable that this is the case (as I have delineated earlier in this thread).

And is it not possible that these man-made earthquakes could get out of control? That, like the sorcerer's apprentice, the man-triggered earthquakes turn out to be a lot worse than intended, triggering other quakes in unexpected areas, and backfiring on those who thought they had things under control?

Well said, and yes it is very possible. We have relevant scriptures that state that the evil schemers will fall into the pit that they dug for others. I think its in 1 Nephi as he prophesies of our day.

Large (including out-of-control) earthquakes can literally produce deep pits and fissures...

[A Random Phrasecaptain of 1,000]

Large (including out-of-control) earthquakes can literally produce deep pits and fissures...

That sounds very frightening.

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

Large (including out-of-control) earthquakes can literally produce deep pits and fissures...

That sounds very frightening.

Then move off the active fault zones! or at least pray about it (if you are near one of these).
Or strengthen your dwelling against large quakes -- as the Brethren did the SLC Tabernacle (and made a big point of doing this).

SEE the Church's depiction of 3 Nephi 8 ff (The Testaments)... Is this Book of Mormon not for our day? The prophets say it is...

However, not so frightening if we "are prepared" (D&C 38 says this).

[A Random Phrasecaptain of 1,000]

I'm in southern AZ, and I know of no fault lines here, but I do have family members and friends who live near them (northern AZ and the Salt Lake area).

[AGalagaChiasmuscaptain of 100]

As for patterns, I think the quakes in Oklahoma & Texas are a result (direct/indirect, I have no clue) of gas drilling. I've been keeping up with them because we are personally affected by them. Go back a few years, and to feel an earthquake in Texas is essentially unprecedented. I have personally felt two in the past eight months.

The potential significance, imo, is the trigger effect. Could a fracking-induced quake in eastern Oklahoma cause the New Madrid fault to awaken from it's two hundred year slumber?

I've said this before, but this kind of brings it up again. First, I don't believe that man, in our current state, will ever be able to control the elements in a way that is sovereign to God. This includes fracking and HAARP (which is a crock anyway). I DO believe, however, that fracking and the magnitude of salt water we inject to replace the gas causes the up-to 3.x earthquakes we are seeing. It's like when Indiana Jones mis-judges the amount of sand it takes to replace the Golden Idol. If you don't exactly replace the static pressures underground, stuff will shift. The USGS has a chart showing earthquake cumulative totals since 1970, and there's a very sharp inflection point right around the turn of the century when fracking became industry standard. They've opened up the avenue of scientific thought that fracking causes these popcorn-fart earthquakes.

Having said that, I think and believe that the Lord has sovereign control over "acts of nature of mass destruction". NMSZ being one of them. Should it become possible to trigger 7, 8 and 9 Mag. earthquakes with our man-made toys, the value of these events to "preach the Lord's sermons" and "call to repentance" becomes heavily diminished. Folks try to find reasonable explanations for things in an attempt to take God out of the equation, clearing their own guilty conscience should a major event occur.

Changing gears, here's a little story about a model the folks at Caltech build to demonstrate the sinusoidal properties of earthquake frequency:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 142003.htm

[Robthe Sunbeam]

This includes fracking and HAARP (which is a crock anyway).

Are you saying that Dr. Jones is wrong in what he's said about HAARP, or are you saying it doesn't exist?

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

This includes fracking and HAARP (which is a crock anyway).

Are you saying that Dr. Jones is wrong in what he's said about HAARP, or are you saying it doesn't exist?

To clarify, I have NOT said that I think that HAARP is the mechanism by which earthquakes could be initiated.

I do think that ultra-sound generators OR mechanical coupling at resonance could be used.
At the same time, there are many weapons for warfare and undeclared warfare that the public (including me) are not told about -- that is for sure IMO!

[minganocaptain of 1,000]

Iceland is the place to watch these days... it appears that the rift is active again with conductivity changes in the glacial floods seeming to indicate that there's active magma that is physically hitting the ice.