Liberty

[minganocaptain of 1,000]

They want to be free but practice wickedness to their hearts content. To enjoy their stripper parties while ranting about individual liberties all while inherently knowing that money will dictate the resolution.

Sorry, I'm a libertarian and don't want to enjoy a stripper party. Clearly you haven't got a clue.

FYI - I'm not the one calling several prophets liars.

I didn't call a prophet a liar, but you said that I did. Who is the liar here?

Despite President Grant making the declaration over the pulpit in General Conference as a prophet - both in counsel and regret following the saints choices....as well as several following prophets who testified of his position on it as God's spokesman (also in General Conference). Well hopefully you wake up and recognize libertarianism for what it is rather than stiffening your neck and getting your back up in defense of your skewed paradigm.

If I print up the Constitution on some toilet paper will you happily use it?

[Waldencaptain of 100]

They want to be free but practice wickedness to their hearts content. To enjoy their stripper parties while ranting about individual liberties all while inherently knowing that money will dictate the resolution.

Sorry, I'm a libertarian and don't want to enjoy a stripper party. Clearly you haven't got a clue.

FYI - I'm not the one calling several prophets liars.

I didn't call a prophet a liar, but you said that I did. Who is the liar here?

Despite President Grant making the declaration over the pulpit in General Conference as a prophet - both in counsel and regret following the saints choices....as well as several following prophets who testified of his position on it as God's spokesman (also in General Conference). Well hopefully you wake up and recognize libertarianism for what it is rather than stiffening your neck and getting your back up in defense of your skewed paradigm.

If I print up the Constitution on some toilet paper will you happily use it?

+1 I also associate myself with the libertarians. You people who attack them don't understand that there is more then one type of libertarian.

[minganocaptain of 1,000]

I've studied it enough to know I want no part of it.

Are you going to kill me if I don't do what you want? That is what your way advocates.

From the folks who funded it to the basic premises of the religion (with all its key words just like the new age movement - force, violence, etc).

Religion? You are equating constructionism with a religion?

Libertarianism preaches Utopia

Boy, what in THE heck are you talking about? Libertarianism doesn't preach utopia - for you to claim so clearly indicates that you haven't the slightest clue about libertarians. Libertarians believe in personal responsibility that a Constitutionally limited government. That's pretty much it.

but in application practices craft and deceit. The proponents ignore God and the moral or natural law aspect of society.

Again, you haven't the slightest clue about this. If I wanted to read fiction then I'd pick up a copy of The Economic Consequences of the Peace.

They want to be free but practice wickedness to their hearts content.

Judgmental little git, ain't you? In the first place, libertarians come from all walks of life - some will have different moral values than you and some will not. Some see no harm in promiscuity and others do. Some see no harm in strippers and some do. Some are pro-life, some are pro-abortion. It is incredibly offensive that you deem somebody wicked just because they don't believe in unlimited welfare, police and military power.

Despite President Grant making the declaration over the pulpit in General Conference as a prophet - both in counsel and regret following the saints choices....as well as several following prophets who testified of his position on it as God's spokesman (also in General Conference).

SWK openly declared Brigham Young to be wrong about Adam-God. In general conference. Do you accuse one prophet of calling another prophet a liar?

Well hopefully you wake up and recognize libertarianism for what it is

I would be happy to discuss it as soon as you have even a glimmer of a token passing awareness of what libertarianism is. In the meantime, how is Wickard v Filburn working out for you? You agree with that decision, right? If you don't then you share significant overlap with libertarians.

[Legioncaptain of 1,000]

They want to be free but practice wickedness to their hearts content. To enjoy their stripper parties while ranting about individual liberties all while inherently knowing that money will dictate the resolution.

Sorry, I'm a libertarian and don't want to enjoy a stripper party. Clearly you haven't got a clue.

The stripper comment is in reference to Hans-Hermann Hoppe (of the MISES Institute) having strippers circulate amongst the crowd at his annual gathering of "The Property and Freedom Society". I could provide numerous other related references to such activities that aren't in alignment with their preaching (like MISES president Douglas French's banking practices)....but there's probably no point considering how far deeply you are buried in this crap.

FYI - I'm not the one calling several prophets liars.

I didn't call a prophet a liar, but you said that I did. Who is the liar here?

Great question -

President Grant, a Word of Wisdom advocate, called Prohibition “the greatest financial and moral blessing that has ever come to humanity.”

This was his personal opinion, and I do not believe that it was a revelation from God because God could not possibly have been so wrong about anything.

I have never felt so humiliated in my life over anything as that the State of Utah voted for the repeal of Prohibition.

- President Heber J. Grant, Conference, Oct. 1934

From this very stand he pleaded with us not to repeal the Eighteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. He didn't speak as Heber J. Grant, the man, he spoke as the President of the Church and the representative of our Heavenly Father.

- George Albert Smith, Conference, Oct 1943

One of the saddest days in all of Utah's history was when the people, including the Latter-day Saints (for it could not have been done without them), rejected the counsel and urging of the Lord's prophet, Heber J. Grant, and repealed Prohibition long years ago--yet many of those voters had sung numerous times, "We Thank Thee, O God, For A Prophet."

- The Teachings of Spencer. W. Kimball

I go back to the words of Jehoshaphat: “Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.” (2 Chr. 20:20.)

There are many little things that test our willingness to accept the word of the prophets. Jesus said, “How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” (Matt. 23:37.)

So it has been through the history of mankind, and so it is today. In our own communities, even here in Utah, we have experienced some of this. President Grant carried to his grave a deep sense of sorrow that, contrary to his counsel, the people of Utah cast the final vote, in 1934, that repealed the Eighteenth Amendment to the Constitution.

I am grateful to say that we had a different experience some years ago when we joined with other citizens in a campaign to control the distribution of liquor. There is no question in my mind that great benefits have come as a result of the overwhelming response to direction from our prophet.

- President Gordan B. Hinckley, "Believe His Prophets", General Conference April 1992

Despite President Grant making the declaration over the pulpit in General Conference as a prophet - both in counsel and regret following the saints choices....as well as several following prophets who testified of his position on it as God's spokesman (also in General Conference). Well hopefully you wake up and recognize libertarianism for what it is rather than stiffening your neck and getting your back up in defense of your skewed paradigm.

If I print up the Constitution on some toilet paper will you happily use it?

You may as well and use it yourself because you obviously haven't studied it nor understand its precepts. Instead its just a word you use to push your opinion which is at odds with not only the prophets but God. Obviously contradicting the Constitution in the process which was established by God.

It is fascinating how people justify throwing the "Constitution" around to support wickedness (chain people down to addictions of both substances and body chemistry) when that would be one of the last things on God's agenda in establishing it.

[minganocaptain of 1,000]

If I print up the Constitution on some toilet paper will you happily use it?

You may as well and use it yourself because you obviously haven't studied it nor understand its precepts.

HA! Bring it on. You can start by using the Constitution to justify civil forfeiture. Go on, give it a shot. What is there in the Constitution that justifies your advocacy to simply confiscate personal property without a warrant or trial and to force the victims of the overt government theft to prove innocence. Go on, give it a shot.

It is fascinating how people justify throwing the "Constitution" around to support wickedness (chain people down to addictions of both substances and body chemistry) when that would be one of the last things on God's agenda in establishing it.

Holy freaking crap you're an offensive little git. There are so many things wrong with your statement and so many questions that I have raised that you ignored.

Let me know when you can justify civil forfeiture. Until then you have nothing of value to contribute.

[Legioncaptain of 1,000]

This was his personal opinion, and I do not believe that it was a revelation from God because God could not possibly have been so wrong about anything.

Wow you have a... unique... way of interpreting things. I didn't say he was a liar, I said that he had a personal opinion. Since you claimed that I said something that I clearly did not then that makes you the liar.

I go back to the words of Jehoshaphat: “Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.” (2 Chr. 20:20.)

So you are telling us to believe in Adam-God? Or that people live on the sun?

If I print up the Constitution on some toilet paper will you happily use it?

You may as well and use it yourself because you obviously haven't studied it nor understand its precepts.

HA! Bring it on. You can start by using the Constitution to justify civil forfeiture. Go on, give it a shot. What is there in the Constitution that justifies your advocacy to simply confiscate personal property without a warrant or trial and to force the victims of the overt government theft to prove innocence. Go on, give it a shot.

It is fascinating how people justify throwing the "Constitution" around to support wickedness (chain people down to addictions of both substances and body chemistry) when that would be one of the last things on God's agenda in establishing it.

Holy freaking crap you're an offensive little git. There are so many things wrong with your statement and so many questions that I have raised that you ignored.

Let me know when you can justify civil forfeiture. Until then you have nothing of value to contribute.

If you can't get past the whole liar thing and admit you blew it there (bad paradigm that isn't in alignment with prophets and ultimately God)......then there is no point in proceeding.

You say - "I do not believe that it was a revelation from God"

President George Albert Smith specifically states in General Conference - "he spoke as the President of the Church and the representative of our Heavenly Father"

How do you reconcile that belief without saying that you think George Albert Smith is a liar?

[minganocaptain of 1,000]

President George Albert Smith specifically states in General Conference - "he spoke as the President of the Church and the representative of our Heavenly Father"

How do you reconcile that belief without saying that you think George Albert Smith is a liar?

I notice that you still refuse to answer the question about civil forfeiture... you are an intellectual coward, incapable of justifying your beliefs.

How do I reconcile these two statements? Simple. GAS described the messenger, not the source of the message. Was he the President of the Church at the time? Yes. Was the the messenger of Heavenly Father? Yes. Does that mean that every single word that is uttered by the man in that position is direct, pure and perfect revelation? No, and your stupidity is pressing my patience for implying that it is.

Now learn how to trim your posts (your signal to noise ration sucks) and start justifying your positions and answering questions or stop bothering me with your unsubstantiated whines about a Constitution that you are demonstrating a complete inability to comprehend or defend.

Last time I'm going to ask: use the Constitution to defend civil forfeiture. If you can't do it then you must admit that you are wrong. If you won't even try then it will appear as if you know that you are wrong.

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

I think that stating that Prohibition was "the greatest financial or moral blessing" was hyperbole AT BEST.
The mouthpiece of the Lord was "humiliated" that Utah voted to repeal prohibition? I could understand sorrow for a wrong choice, but humiliation? Once again we come to the "fallible or infallible" debate. I won't say he was wrong, but I will say I haven't gotten confirmation nor do I expect to.