Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

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Fairminded
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

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AussieOi wrote:
AussieOi wrote:If they were to kill all Jews, wouldn’t it be wise to start with the 23,000 living in Teheran? The Jews living there all seem pretty safe to me, and refuse to move to Israel, even though the Israeli government pressures them to do so.

I guess the Middle Eastern Jews know what the Eastern European Jews are like, and how they treat Jews that are not Khazars.
You’ve done your homework Oh Smart one.

Unfortunately not enough people understand that Khazars jews (Ashkenazis) are descendants of a pagan tribe that began converting to talmudic judaism in the 8th century AD and are neither semites nor do they have any right to live in Israel. For those who want to do their homework look for Arthur Koestler’s “The 13th Tribe” — history’s greatest hoax



http://revoltoftheplebs.wordpress.com/2 ... te-israel/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good point. I view the Khazars in much the same way I view Constantine's takeover of the Christian faith. That doesn't make the current religion any less valid, but it does mean that those in power at the time co-opted the religion for their own uses. And after Constantine many pagan rites and beliefs infiltrated the Roman Catholic faith. I imagine something similar happened with the Khazars jews.

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Oldemandalton
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

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AussieOi
Unfortunately not enough people understand that Khazars jews (Ashkenazis) are descendants of a pagan tribe that began converting to talmudic judaism in the 8th century AD and are neither semites nor do they have any right to live in Israel. For those who want to do their homework look for Arthur Koestler’s “The 13th Tribe” — history’s greatest hoax =)) =)) =))

Sorry, AusieOi but it is Koestler and his pseudo history that was found to be a hoax.




Theory of Khazar ancestry of Ashkenazi Jews

Early Khazar theories

The theory that all or most Ashkenazi Jews might be descended from Khazars dates back to the racial studies of late 19th century Europe, and was frequently cited to assert that most modern Jews are not descended from Israelites and/or to refute Israeli claims to Israel. It was first publicly proposed in lecture given by the racial-theorist Ernest Renan on January 27, 1883, titled "Judaism as a Race and as Religion."[60] It was repeated in articles in The Dearborn Independent in 1923 and 1925, and popularized by racial theorist Lothrop Stoddard in a 1926 article in the Forum titled "The Pedigree of Judah", where he argued that Ashkenazi Jews were a mix of people, of which the Khazars were a primary element.[38][61] Stoddard's views were "based on nineteenth and twentieth-century concepts of race, in which small variations on facial features as well as presumed accompanying character traits were deemed to pass from generation to generation, subject only to the corrupting effects of marriage with members of other groups, the result of which would lower the superior stock without raising the inferior partners."[62] This theory was adopted by British Israelites, who saw it as a means of invalidating the claims of Jews (rather than themselves) to be the true descendants of the ancient Israelites, and was supported by early anti-Zionists.[38][61]

In 1951 Southern Methodist University professor John O. Beaty published The Iron Curtain over America, a work which claimed that "Khazar Jews" were "responsible for all of America's — and the world's — ills beginning with World War I". The book repeated a number of familiar antisemitic claims, placing responsibility for U.S. involvement in World Wars I and II and the Bolshevik revolution on these Khazars, and insisting that Khazar Jews were attempting to subvert Western Christianity and establish communism throughout the world. The American millionaire J. Russell Maguire gave money towards its promotion, and it was met with enthusiasm by hate groups and the extreme right.[39][40] By the 1960s the Khazar theory had become a "firm article of faith" amongst Christian Identity groups.[38][41] In 1971 John Bagot Glubb (Glubb Pasha) also took up this theme, insisting that Palestinians were more closely related to the ancient Judeans than were Jews. According to Benny Morris:

Of course an anti-Zionist (as well as an anti-Semitic) point is being made here: The Palestinians have a greater political right to Palestine than the Jews do, as they, not the modern-day Jews, are the true descendants of the land's Jewish inhabitants/owners.[44]

The theory gained further support when the novelist Arthur Koestler devoted his popular book The Thirteenth Tribe (1976) to the topic. Koestler's historiography has been attacked as highly questionable by many historians;[43][63][64] it has also been pointed out that his discussion of theories about Ashkenazi descent is entirely lacking scientific or historiographical support; to the extent that Koestler referred to place-names and documentary evidence his analysis has been described as a mixture of flawed etymologies and misinterpreted primary sources.[65] Commentors have also noted that Koestler mischaracterized the sources he cited, particularly D.M. Dunlop's History of the Jewish Khazars (1954).[64] Dunlop himself stated that the theory that Eastern European Jews were the descendants of the Khazars, "... can be dealt with very shortly, because there is little evidence which bears directly upon it, and it unavoidably retains the character of a mere assumption."[66]

Koestler, an Ashkenazi Jew himself, was pro-Zionist based on secular considerations, and did not see alleged Khazar ancestry as diminishing the claim of Jews to Israel, which he felt was based on the United Nations mandate, and not on Biblical covenants or genetic inheritance. In his view, "The problem of the Khazar infusion a thousand years ago ... is irrelevant to modern Israel". In addition, he was apparently "either unaware of or oblivious to the use anti-Semites had made to the Khazar theory since its introduction at the turn of the century."[67]

Theories linking Jews to Khazars today

Although the Khazar theory is contradicted by genetic evidence[68][69][70] and has little support amongst academics, in the Arab world it still enjoys popularity among anti-Zionists[43] and antisemites;[71] Such proponents argue that if Ashkenazi Jews are primarily Khazar and not Semitic in origin, they would have no historical claim to Israel, nor would they be the subject of God's Biblical promise of Canaan to the Israelites, thus undermining the theological basis of both Jewish religious Zionists and Christian Zionists. In the 1970s and 80s the Khazar theory was also advanced by some Russian chauvinist antisemites, particularly the historian Lev Gumilyov, who portrayed "Judeo-Khazars" as having repeatedly sabotaged Russia's development since the 7th century.[72]

Bernard Lewis stated in 1999:

This theory… is supported by no evidence whatsoever. It has long since been abandoned by all serious scholars in the field, including those in Arab countries, where the Khazar theory is little used except in occasional political polemics.[43]

Genetic studies on Ashkenazi Jewry

A 1999 study by Hammer et al., published in the Proceedings of the United States National Academy of Sciences compared the Y chromosomes of Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian Jews with 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. It found that "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level... The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."[73]

According to Nicholas Wade "The results accord with Jewish history and tradition and refute theories like those holding that Jewish communities consist mostly of converts from other faiths, or that they are descended from the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe that adopted Judaism."[74]

A 2010 study on Jewish ancestry by Atzmon et al. says "Two major groups were identified by principal component, phylogenetic, and identity by descent (IBD) analysis: Middle Eastern Jews and European/Syrian Jews. The IBD segment sharing and the proximity of European Jews to each other and to southern European populations suggested similar origins for European Jewry and refuted large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry."[75]

Concerning male-line ancestry, several Y-DNA studies have tested the hypothesis of Khazar ancestry amongst Ashkenazim.[76][77][78] In these studies Haplogroup R1a chromosomes (sometimes called Eu 19) have been identified as potential evidence of one line of Eastern European ancestry amongst Ashkenazim, which could possibly be Khazar. One concluded that "neither the NRY haplogroup composition of the majority of Ashkenazi Jews nor the microsatellite haplotype composition of the R1a1 haplogroup within Ashkenazi Levites is consistent with a major Khazar or other European origin"[77] and another that "if the R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews do indeed represent the vestiges of the mysterious Khazars then, according to our data, this contribution was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed ~ 12% of the present-day Ashkenazim."[76]

38. Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke, Black Sun: Aryan cults, esoteric nazism, and the politics of identity, NYU Press, 2002, ISBN 0814731554, p. 237.
39. Paul F. Boller, Memoirs of an Obscure Professor and Other Essays, TCU Press, 1992, pp. 5-6.
40. Barkun, pp.140-141.
41. Barkun, p. 142.
42. Behar, Doron M.; Ene Metspalu, Toomas Kivisild, Alessandro Achilli, Yarin Hadid, Shay Tzur, Luisa Pereira, Antonio Amorim, Lluı's Quintana-Murci, Kari Majamaa, Corinna Herrnstadt, Neil Howell, Oleg Balanovsky, Ildus Kutuev, Andrey Pshenichnov, David Gurwitz, Batsheva Bonne-Tamir, Antonio Torroni, Richard Villems, and Karl Skorecki (March 2006). "The Matrilineal Ancestry of Ashkenazi Jewry: Portrait of a Recent Founder Event" (PDF). The American Journal of Human Genetics 78 (3): 487–97. doi:10.1086/500307. PMC 1380291. PMID 16404693.
43. Lewis, Bernard. Semites and Anti-Semites, W.W. Norton and Company, 1999, ISBN 0-393-31839-7, p. 48.
44. Benny Morris, The Road to Jerusalem: Glubb Pasha, Palestine and the Jews, I.B.Tauris, 2003, ISBN 1860649890, p. 22.
60. Michael Barkun, Religion and the Racist Right: The Origins of the Christian Identity Movement, UNC Press, 1997, ISBN 0807846384, p. 137.
61. Barkun, pp. 138-139.
62. Barkun, p. 139.
63. E.g., Abramsky, Chimen. "The Khazar Myth." Jewish Chronicle (April 9, 1976): 19; Maccoby, Hyam. "Koestler's Racism." Midstream 23 (March 1977).
64. McInnes, Neil. "Koestler and His Jewish Thesis." National Interest. Fall 1999.
65. E.g., Abramsky, Chimen. "The Khazar Myth." Jewish Chronicle (April 9, 1976): 19; Maccoby, Hyam. "Koestler's Racism." Midstream 23 (March 1977).
66. Klier, John D. (2005) The Slavonic and East European Review 83:4 , pp. 779-781. — Review of Victor Shnirelman, The Myth of the Khazars and Intellectual Antisemitism in Russia, 1970s-1990s (Jerusalem: Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Antisemitism and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, 2002)
67. Barkun, pp. 144-145.
68.http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2 ... hness.html
69. http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/Behar_contrasting.pdf
70. http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10 ... 3321560976
71. "Arab anti-Semitism might have been expected to be free from the idea of racial odium, since Jews and Arabs are both regarded by race theory as Semites, but the odium is directed, not against the Semitic race, but against the Jews as a historical group. The main idea is that the Jews, racially, are a mongrel community, most of them being not Semites, but of Khazar and European origin." Harkabi, Yehoshafat, "Contemporary Arab Anti-Semitism: its Causes and Roots", in Fein, Helen. The Persisting Question: Sociological Perspectives and Social Contexts of Modern Antisemitism, Walter de Gruyter, 1987, ISBN 311010170X, p. 424.
72. CDI.
73. Hammer, M. F.; A. J. Redd, E. T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, H. Jarjanazi, T. Karafet, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonné-Tamir (May 9 2000). "Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 97 (12): 6769. Bibcode 2000PNAS...97.6769H. doi:10.1073/pnas.100115997. PMC 18733. PMID 10801975.
74. Nicholas Wade (May 9 2000). "Y Chromosome Bears Witness to Story of the Jewish Diaspora". New York Times.
75. G.Atzmon, L.Hao, I.Pe'er, C.Velez, A.Pearlman, P.F.Palamara, B.Morrow, E.Friedman, C.Oddoux, E.Burns and H.Ostrer. Abraham's Children in the Genome Era: Major Jewish Diaspora Populations Comprise Distinct Genetic Clusters with Shared Middle Eastern Ancestry. The American Journal of Human Genetics, 03 June 2010.
76. Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Bernd Brinkmann, Partha P. Majumder, Marina Faerman, Ariella Oppenheim. "The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East", (The American Journal of Human Genetics (2001), Volume 69, number 5. pp. 1095–112).
77. Behar Doron M., Thomas MG, Skorecki K, Hammer MF, Bulygina E, Rosengarten D, Jones AL, Held K et al (2003). "Multiple Origins of Ashkenazi Levites: Y Chromosome Evidence for Both Near Eastern and European Ancestries" (PDF). Am. J. Hum. Genet 73 (4): 768–779. doi:10.1086/378506. PMC 1180600. PMID 13680527.
78. Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Marina Faerman, Himla Soodyall and Ariella Oppenheim. "Y chromosome evidence for a founder effect in Ashkenazi Jews", (European Journal of Human Genetics (2005) 13, 388–391. doi:10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201319 Published online 3 November 2004).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_ ... -hammer-41




So you see AusieOi God was right when he said that the Jew would return to the Holy Land in the Last Days.




See also:
Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... =pmcentrez

The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/


AusieOi, you can add “The 13th Tribe” alongside your copy of “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”. Both works of fiction.

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AussieOi
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

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>>>>>>>>>>>>o you see AusieOi God was right when he said that the Jew would return to the Holy Land in the Last Days.

And of course those who have lost their sense of humanity and their judgements are clouded by the fear and satan, they naturally equate "return" with "steal/ possess/ subjigate"

and for goodness sake, at what point will you get the spelling of my name correct?

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AussieOi
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

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Rensai wrote:Nice quote Dr. Jones. I can't believe LDS people can even consider supporting wars of aggression. The Lords position is clear. Nothing but a defensive war is ever justified. Anything else is murder.

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Lock the thread, we will never see eye to eye on this

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Oldemandalton
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

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Why do men build walls, AusieOi? To either keep men in, as in prisons and in East Germany during the ‘Cold War’ or to keep evil men out and to protect their families and towns. I have a block wall around my back yard. Do I have it to imprison my children? No, it’s there to keep unwanted intruders from my home and family.

Israel had to spend millions of $$ to build the fence and protect their citizens from the evil men who wish to kill Jews whether they be man woman or child, they don’t care. After the wall was built the raids and sniper fire from the Arabs have dropped greatly.

There are Arabs who live peacefully within the borders of Israel and enjoy more freedoms and peace than their brothers in all of the surrounding countries. Israelis don’t need walls to separate them. They are peaceful. Why can’t the rest of the Arabs do the same?



Israel’s Security Fence

by Mitchell Bard

(Updated July 8, 2010)

After scores of suicide bombings and daily terrorist attacks against its civilians that have killed more than 850 people and wounded thousands more since September 2000, Israel’s unity government decided to construct a security fence near the northern part of the pre-1967 “Green Line” between Israel and the West Bank to prevent Palestinian terrorists from infiltrating into Israeli population centers. The project has had the overwhelming support of the Israeli public which sees the barrier as vital to their security.

There is actually nothing new about the construction of a security fence. Many other nations have fences to protect their borders (the United States is building one now to keep out illegal Mexican immigrants). Israel has similar barriers along its borders with Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan. In fact, a fence already surrounds the Gaza Strip and not a single suicide bomber has managed to get across the Gaza barrier into Israel. Ironically, after condemning Israel's barrier, the UN announced plans to build its own fence to improve security around its New York headquarters.
Israel is Forced to Act

The Palestinians committed themselves in the Oslo accords and in the road map to dismantle terrorist networks and confiscate illegal weapons. After more than 10 years of negotiations, and a mounting toll of Israeli civilian casualties, however, it became clear to the Israeli people that the Palestinian Authority (PA) made a strategic choice to use terror to achieve its aims and that something had to be done to protect the civilian population.

“It obliges us to establish a barrier wall which is the only thing that can minimize the infiltration of these male and female suicide bombers,” said Defense Minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer, who has emphasized that “the fence is not political, [and] is not a border.”

Some Israelis oppose the fence either because they fear it will constitute a recognition of the 1949 armistice line as a final border. Jews living in the West Bank, beyond the planned route of the fence, in particular, argue that they are now being left relatively unprotected and worry that they might be forced to relocate behind the fence if it does become a political border in the future.

Making Terrorism More Difficult

Before the construction of the fence, and in many places where it has not yet been completed, a terrorist need only walk across an invisible line to cross from the West Bank into Israel. No barriers of any kind exist, so it is easy to see how a barrier, no matter how imperfect, won't at least make the terrorists' job more difficult. Approximately 75 percent ofthe suicide bombers who attacked targets inside Israel came from across the border where the first phase of the fence was built.

During the 34 months from the beginning of the violence in September 2000 until the construction of the first continuous segment of the security fence at the end of July 2003, Samaria-based terrorists carried out 73 attacks in which 293 Israelis were killed and 1950 wounded. In the 11 months between the erection of the first segment at the beginning of August 2003 and the end of June 2004, only three attacks were successful, and all three occurred in the first half of 2003.

Since construction of the fence began, the number of attacks has declined by more than 90%. The number of Israelis murdered and wounded has decreased by more than 70% and 85%, respectively, after erection of the fence.

Even the Palestinian terrorists have addmitted the fence is a deterrent. On November 11, 2006, Islamic Jihad leader Abdallah Ramadan Shalah said on Al-Manar TV the terrorist organizations had every intention of continuing suicide bombing attacks, but that their timing and the possibility of implementing them from the West Bank depended on other factors. “For example,” he said, “there is the separation fence, which is an obstacle to the resistance, and if it were not there the situation would be entirely different.”

The value of the fence in saving lives is evident from the data: In 2002, the year before construction started, 457 Israelis were murdered; in 2009, 8 Israelis were killed.

Image

Other Benefits

The Green Line is crossed by numerous dirt roads and it is impossible to patrol it. Many Palestinians take advantage of these roads to come to work illegally in Israel or to get between parts of the Palestinian administered territories to avoid checkpoints. Some also cross to carry out terror operations and theft. Since 1994, Palestinians, sometimes in cooperation with Israeli middlemen, have stolen thousands of automobiles as well as farm machinery and animals.1

Israelis living along the Green Line, both Jews and Arabs, favor the fence to prevent infiltration by suicide bombers and by thieves and vandals. In fact, the fence has caused a revolution in the daily life of some Israeli Arab towns because it has brought quiet, which has allowed a significant upsurge in economic activity.

The Palestinians in the territories will also benefit from the fence because it will reduce the need for Israeli military operations in the territories, and the deployment of troops in Palestinian towns. Onerous security measures, such as curfews and checkpoints, will either be unnecessary or dramatically scaled back.

A High-Tech Fence

Although critics have sought to portray the security fence as a kind of "Berlin Wall," it is nothing of the sort. First, unlike the Berlin Wall, the fence does not separate one people, Germans from Germans, and deny freedom to those on one side. Israel's security fence separates two peoples, Israelis and Palestinians, and offers freedom and security for both. Second, while Israelis are fully prepared to live with Palestinians, and 20 percent of the Israeli population is already Arab, it is the Palestinians who say they do not want to live with any Jews and call for the West Bank to be judenrein. Third, the fence is not being constructed to prevent the citizens of one state from escaping; it is designed solely to keep terrorists out of Israel. Finally, only a tiny fraction of the total length of the barrier (less than 3% or about 10 miles) is actually a 30 foot high concrete wall, and that is being built in three areas where it will prevent Palestinian snipers from around the terrorist hotbeds of Kalkilya and Tul Karm from shooting at cars as they have done for the last three years along the Trans-Israel Highway, one of the country's main roads. The wall also takes up less space than the other barriers, only about seven feet, so it did not have a great impact on the area where it was built.

Image

This diagram shows why a wall is being built in a few specific places where Palestinian snipers have terrorized motorists.

Most of the barrier will be a chain-link type fence similar to those used all over the United States combined with underground and long-range sensors, unmanned aerial vehicles, trenches, landmines and guard paths. Manned checkpoints will constitute the only way to travel back and forth through the fence. The barrier is altogether about 160 feet wide in most places.

The land used in building the security fence is seized for military purposes, not confiscated, and it remains the property of the owner. Legal procedures are already in place to allow every owner to file an objection to the seizure of their land. Moreover, property owners are offered compensation for the use of their land and for any damage to their trees.

Image

Inconvenience Versus Saving Lives

Every effort is being made to exclude Palestinian villages from the area within the fence and no territories are being annexed. The land used in building the security fence is seized for military purposes, not confiscated, and it remains the property of the owner. Legal procedures are already in place to allow every owner to file an objection to the seizure of their land. In addition, Israel has budgeted $540 million to ease the lives of Palestinians affected by the fence by building extra roads, passageways, and tunnels.

Israel is doing its best to minimize the negative impact on Palestinians in the area of construction and has created 70 agricultural passageways to allow farmers to continue to cultivate their lands, and crossing points to allow the movement of people and the transfer of goods. Moreover, property owners are offered compensation for the use of their land and for any damage to their trees. Contractors are responsible for carefully uprooting and replanting the trees. So far, more than 60,000 olive trees have been relocated in accordance with this procedure. In addition, the government has spent NIS 2 billion to construct an alternative system of roads, underpasses and tunnels to facilitate Palestinian travel around the barrier.

Despite Israel's best efforts, the fence has caused some injury to residents near the fence. Israel’s Supreme Court took up the grievances of Palestinians and ruled that the construction of the security fence is consistent with international law and was based on Israel’s security requirements rather than political considerations. It also required the government to move the fence in the area near Jerusalem to make things easier for the Palestinians.

Though the Court’s decision made the government’s job of securing the population from terrorist threats more difficult, costly, and time-consuming, the Prime Minister immediately accepted the decision and began to reroute the fence and to factor the Court’s ruling into the planning of the rest of the barrier.

Palestinians continue to challenge the route of the fence and the Court has issued a number of decisions, some favoring the existing route and others, the petitioners. For example, in June 2006, the Court ordered Israel to tear down a two-mile stretch of fence around Zufin, a settlement near the West Bank town of Kalkilya and reroute it to accommodate Palestinians in the area. In July 2008, the government responded to another court decision and agreed to move part of the barrier that was on the land of the residents of the village of Bil’in.

The security fence does create some inconvenience to Palestinians, but it also saves lives. The deaths of Israelis caused by terror are permanent and irreversible whereas the hardships faced by the Palestinians are temporary and reversible.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... fence.html

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AussieOi
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Juliette
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

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AussieOi wrote:Image
I think I will move there if Obama is voted back into office. Heaven help us!

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In an interview with the Dutch newspaper "Trau" (March 31, 1977), PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said:

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. "

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AussieOi
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

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Oldemandalton wrote:"The Palestinian people does not exist.
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... very-real/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
20 POINTS THAT PROVE PALESTINE IS VERY REAL
January 15, 2012 at 08:16 (Associate Post, Hasbara, Ignorance, Israel, Palestine, zionist harassment)


This despite the venomous attacks by newts and other such creatures …
There are many books and references available to document each point.
*

*
20 punti/points
Prepared by Mazin Qumsiyeh, PhD
*
1- Palestine is the Western part of the Fertile Crescent: an area that includes Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq. In this Fertile Crescent the first human agriculture developed. Here the first domestication of animals (e.g. goats, donkeys, camels) and plants (e.g. wheat, barley, chickpeas, lentils, olives) happened.
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2- This is also where civilization began including development of the first alphabet (by Phoenician Canaanites) and the first laws. It was where we first developed sciences like astronomy, engineering, and mathematics
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3- The original inhabitants of the Western part of the Fertile Crescent were called Canaanites and the original language was called Aramaic which Jesus spoke (he was born in the country called then Palestine and thus he was Palestinian)
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4- The old Aramaic language gave rise to derived languages including Syriac, Arabic, and Hebrew and this language group is called Semetic languages
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5- Arabic alphabet evolved in Southern Canaan (today’s Jordan and Palestine) while the Latin alphabet evolved in Northern Canaan (Phoenicia, present day Lebanon and Syria). The Alphabet used in Europe today came from our part of the world.
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6- The people of Southern Canaan including Palestine endured many invasions of armies with nearly 15 times that local people were ruled by kings or emperors (Persian, Roman, Umayyad, Abbasid, Israelite etc).
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7- Local religious ideas evolved over the ages from Cananitic Pagan ideas to monotheistic ideas to Christianity (first century), Rabbinical Judaism (3rd century), Islam (7th Century).,
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8- Palestine was always multi-cultural, multi-religious society despite attempts to homogenize it in certain periods (e.g. the Crusaders killed and exiled Jews, Muslims, and Christians of other sects).
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9- Jews of today, like Christians and Muslims of today come from various ethnic and cultural backgrounds. They are thus genetically (biologically) heterogeneous.
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10- Before the wave of European Jewish immigration, Palestinians were of various religions: about 85% Muslim, 10% Christian, 5% Jewish and others. For hundreds of years Palestinians of various religions lived in relative harmony.
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11- Zionism is a political idea that spread among a minority of European Jews who adapted to the European notions of ethnocentric nationalism and thus claims Jews of today should gather in Palestine and create a Jewish state because of discrimination in Europe. Socialist Jews and other Jews believed in fighting for equal rights. Zionists thought that anti-Jewish feelings in Europe serves their interests and thus even collaborated with racists. There was a transfer agreement between the third Reich and the Zionist movement. Zionists also lobbied Western governments not to take in European Jewish refugees so that they all go to Palestine.
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12- Zionism started in the mid 19th century with formation of the “Jewish Colonization Association” and became an international movement in 1897 at the first World Zionist Congress. To achieve its goals, its leaders advocated transferring the native non-Jewish Palestinians.
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13- The United States and other Western countries under influence of a Zionist lobby pushed for the creation of a “Jewish state” of Israel in Palestine despite the wishes of the native people.
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14- Between 1947-1949, 530 Palestinian villages and towns were completely destroyed and their people made refugees. This process of forcing Palestinians out of their land continued in other forms since the founding of Israel in May 1948. Today 70% of the 11 million Palestinians in the world are refugees or displaced people.
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15- Current day Israel has a set of discriminatory laws that fit the descriptions given in the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid. Every month, the Israeli Knesset takes on more such racist laws.
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16- In 1967, Israel occupied the West Bank (including the old city of Jerusalem) and Gaza strip. Together these two areas are 22% of historic Palestine. Israel began immediately to build Jewish colonial settlements in these Palestinian lands. Contrary to International law, there are now over 200 settlements on our lands housing over 0.5 million Jewish colonial settlers.
*

17- Israel has built walls around the remaining Palestinian enclaves (ghettos, people warehouses, cantons, reservations) and isolated them from each other and from the rest of Palestine. These walls separate Palestinians from their lands, from other Palestinians, from schools, from hospitals etc. As an example, the Bethlehem district houses 180,000 natives, some 50,000 of us living there are refugees from 1948 period. All of us are restricted now to develop and live on only 13% of the original Bethlehem district size. 87% of the district is now under control of Israeli settlements, military bases, closed military zones etc. The Bethlehem people are isolated behind a wall and even Jerusalem (6 km away) is off-limits to us.
*

18- Colonialism involves violence. Over 80 massacres were committed against native Palestinians. Over 60,000 Palestinian civilians were killed by Israeli forces and settlers. This is ten times more than the number of Israeli civilians (most colonial settlers) killed by Palestinians. Palestinians resisted colonialism over the past 130 years mostly by using non-violent popular resistance something not widely discussed in the Western countries because of attempts to vilify the victims.
*

19- Palestinians and other Arab countries in conflict with Zionism have been “unreasonably reasonable” as one diplomat described it. We accept all elements of International law` and all UN (United Nations) resolutions on the issue. Israel by contrast, violated over 60 UN Security Council resolutions and over 200 UN General Assembly Resolutions. Without the USA using its veto power to shield Israel from International law at the UN SC, the number would have been doubled.
*

20- We Palestinians demand and are struggling for our right to return and to self-determination. We call for a democratic pluralistic state for people of all religions in our historic homeland of Palestine. We call for equality and justice. People in Europe and around the world can support us by using education, by coming to visit us, and by Boycotts, Divestments, and Sanctions (BDS). This is a collective human struggle similar to what happened in challenging apartheid in South Africa.
*

There are many books and references available to document each point.

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Oldemandalton
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

Post by Oldemandalton »

AussieOi
Oldemandalton wrote:"The Palestinian people does not exist.


I did post it but it was said by a Palestinian Liberation Organization leader, Zahir Muhsein in 1977. I agree with him BTW.

http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... very-real/
20 POINTS THAT PROVE PALESTINE IS VERY REAL
January 15, 2012 at 08:16 (Associate Post, Hasbara, Ignorance, Israel, Palestine, zionist harassment)

This despite the venomous attacks by newts and other such creatures …
There are many books and references available to document each point.
*



Am I a “newt”, AussieOI? :))
Probably not because I know that “Palestine is very real”. It’s the myth of a separate “Palestinian people” that I, Mr. Zahir Muhsein, and many of the Arab leaders disagree with:

Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.

In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: “There is no such country as Palestine! ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria.”

The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations echoed this view in a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947, which said Palestine was part of the Province of Syria and the Arabs of Palestine did not comprise a separate political entity. A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: “It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria.”

Princeton University Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: “There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in history, absolutely not.”

So yes, AussieOi I agree with Zahir Muhsein, Prof. Philip Hitti, First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, and Ahmed Shuqeiri, who later became the chairman of the PLO that the “Palestinian” people were created “to oppose Zionism”.

20 punti/points
Prepared by Mazin Qumsiyeh, PhD
*
1- Palestine is the Western part of the Fertile Crescent: an area that includes Palestine , Jordan , Lebanon , Syria , and Iraq . In this Fertile Crescent the first human agriculture developed. Here the first domestication of animals (e.g. goats, donkeys, camels) and plants (e.g. wheat, barley, chickpeas, lentils, olives) happened.
*

We learn from scriptures that Adam learned animal husbandry and farming which he handed down to his posterity. After the flood Noah, who landed on Mt Ararat Turkey, would have begun farming and raising animals soon after leaving the Ark so this makes sense if you don’t have the belief in the Bible as we do.

2- This is also where civilization began including development of the first alphabet (by Phoenician Canaanites) and the first laws. It was where we first developed sciences like astronomy, engineering, and mathematics
*

Scriptures tell us Adam was taught and wrote a book of remembrance and was given laws and commandments from God. The Adamic language and the laws were handed down through his lineage until it was confounded at the Tower of Babel. Phoenician was just one of the many languages that came from the pure Adamic tongue spoken by our first Parents.
3- The original inhabitants of the Western part of the Fertile Crescent were called Canaanites and the original language was called Aramaic which Jesus spoke (he was born in the country called then Palestine and thus he was Palestinian)
*

This would be the language of Shem the righteous son of Noah or Sem as in ‘Semitic’.

4- The old Aramaic language gave rise to derived languages including Syriac, Arabic, and Hebrew and this language group is called Semetic languages


5- Arabic alphabet evolved in Southern Canaan (today’s Jordan and Palestine ) while the Latin alphabet evolved in Northern Canaan ( Phoenicia , present day Lebanon and Syria ). The Alphabet used in Europe today came from our part of the world.
*

6- The people of Southern Canaan including Palestine endured many invasions of armies with nearly 15 times that local people were ruled by kings or emperors (Persian, Roman, Umayyad, Abbasid, Israelite etc).
**

The term “Palestine” is believed to have referred to the Philistines, who in the 12th Century B.C., settled along the Mediterranean coast of what are now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the second century AD, after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans gave this land the name Palaestina to Judea in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word Filastin is derived from this Latin name.

Scriptures tells us that Shem settled the land and built the city of Salem, we call it Jerusalem today. God gave this land to Abraham through a covenant which then passed down to Isaac and Jacob/Israel (late 1800s BC). I am sure the Phoenicians and Canaanites, who were also in the Holy Land and worshiped pagan gods, were not consulted in the matter and did not agree to this covenant God made with Abraham. I wonder if they were told of this arrangement by Abraham and his legal heirs?

We all know the story of how Joseph was sold into Egypt and how the Family of Jacob/Israel ended up there around 1732 BC.

The Israelites, led by Joshua, entered the Holy Land around 1300 B.C. They lived as a tribal confederation under judges for 400 years until being united under the first monarch, King Saul. The second king, David, established Jerusalem as the capital around 1000 B.C. David’s son, Solomon, built the Temple soon thereafter and consolidated the military, administrative and religious functions of the kingdom. The nation was divided under Solomon’s son, with the northern kingdom (Israel) lasting until 722 B.C., when the Assyrians destroyed it, and the southern kingdom (Judah) surviving until the Babylonian conquest in 586 B.C. The Jewish people enjoyed brief periods of sovereignty afterward until most Jews were finally driven from their homeland in 135 AD by the Romans.

After Rome and Byzantium came the invasion by the Islamic Arabs who established the Rashidun Caliphate throughout the Middle East, Caucasus, Persia, Asia and North Africa.

There has always been a Jewish presence in the Holy Land.
See:
Continuous Jewish Presence in the Holy Land
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~samuel/presence.html


7- Local religious ideas evolved over the ages from Cananitic Pagan ideas to monotheistic ideas to Christianity (first century), Rabbinical Judaism (3rd century), Islam (7th Century).,
*



Christianity did not “evolve” but was given to us by God’s Son, Jesus Christ. ‘Rabbinical Judaism’ did evolve or apostatize from the scriptures, teachings and ordinances given to Moses and the Israelite prophets through the centuries.

Islam was invented by Mohammed who barrowed some teachings of Judaism and even Christianity.

8- Palestine was always multi-cultural, multi-religious society despite attempts to homogenize it in certain periods (e.g. the Crusaders killed and exiled Jews, Muslims, and Christians of other sects).
*

Such as when God commanded the Israelites to cleans the land of the Canaanites and Phoenicians. Also when Islam was spread into this area by either conversion or the sword through jihad.


9- Jews of today, like Christians and Muslims of today come from various ethnic and cultural backgrounds. They are thus genetically (biologically) heterogeneous.
*



Science has proven that the Jews are NOT “(biologically) heterogeneous”.

"Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level... The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."
Hammer, M. F.; A. J. Redd, E. T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, H. Jarjanazi, T. Karafet, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonné-Tamir (May 9 2000). "Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences

10- Before the wave of European Jewish immigration, Palestinians were of various religions: about 85% Muslim, 10% Christian, 5% Jewish and others. For hundreds of years Palestinians of various religions lived in relative harmony.
*

11- Zionism is a political idea that spread among a minority of European Jews who adapted to the European notions of ethnocentric nationalism and thus claims Jews of today should gather in Palestine and create a Jewish state because of discrimination in Europe. Socialist Jews and other Jews believed in fighting for equal rights. Zionists thought that anti-Jewish feelings in Europe serves their interests and thus even collaborated with racists. There was a transfer agreement between the third Reich and the Zionist movement. Zionists also lobbied Western governments not to take in European Jewish refugees so that they all go to Palestine .
*
For more accurate info on the Haavara Agreement see:
Could We Have Stopped Hitler? by Edwin Black
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... Black.html

12- Zionism started in the mid 19th century with formation of the “Jewish Colonization Association” and became an international movement in 1897 at the first World Zionist Congress. To achieve its goals, its leaders advocated transferring the native non-Jewish Palestinians.
*

What happened in the “mid 19th century” that could have spurred the dispersed Jews to begin to desire a return to the Holy Land ? Latter Day prophets and Apostles have testified that because of Elder Orson Hyde’s dedicatory prayer in Jerusalem the Spirit touched the Jewish people to have a desire to return to the Holy Land, to inspire politicians from England and America to facilitate their return, and for wealthy Jews to help by purchasing land in “Palestine”.

13- The United States and other Western countries under influence of a Zionist lobby pushed for the creation of a “Jewish state” of Israel in Palestine despite the wishes of the native people.
*
God did inspire these events.

Who inspired the Arabs to oppose partitioning “Palestine”, not share the Holy Land with the Jews who were buying up land and settling there, and caused hatred and riots to oppose the Jewish settlers which eventually led to over 60 years of wars and bloodshed? The answer starts with an S and ends with an ‘n’.
14- Between 1947-1949, 530 Palestinian villages and towns were completely destroyed and their people made refugees. This process of forcing Palestinians out of their land continued in other forms since the founding of Israel in May 1948. Today 70% of the 11 million Palestinians in the world are refugees or displaced people.
*


It’s funny that Mazin Qumsiyeh leaves out what caused the “destruction of villages” and the refugees “Between 1947-1949”.

The UN tried to get the Jews and Arabs to live peacefully side by side through a “two State solution” by dividing the Holy Land and creating a nation for the Arabs in ‘Palestine’ and one for the Jews. The Arabs refused and launched a war of extinction and attempted to “drive the Jews into the sea” and take their land from them which they had legally bought. In preparation, thousands of Arabs left their homes and villages temporarily in the hope of returning to reoccupy their land and that of the dead Jews. God and the Jews had a different end in mind and defended successfully their rights to live on the land they had purchased and settled.

At the armistice after the war that the Arabs had launched against the Jews, saw the creation of the nation of Israel with larger borders which usually happens when a defender wins a war against their larger aggressors. Wisely the new nation of Israel did not allow their enemies to reoccupy their land. These were the same people who tried to exterminate them and take THEIR land. They did allow those peaceful Arabs who did not leave to live in the new nation of Israel and enjoy the democratic freedoms they never had as Arabs living under Islamic law.

In 1949 Israel took in every single displaced Jew by the thousands after the War who had been ejected from the surrounding Arab countries in retaliation of losing the first War against Israel. On the other hand not one country accepted any of their Arab brothers into their countries as citizens but left their fellow Muslims in refugee camps and squalor!

15- Current day Israel has a set of discriminatory laws that fit the descriptions given in the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid. Every month, the Israeli Knesset takes on more such racist laws.
*

Myth

“Israel is one of the most open societies in the world. Out of a population of 6.7 million, about 1.3 million — 20 percent of the population — are non-Jews (approximately 1.1 million Muslims, 130,000 Christians and 100,000 Druze).

Arabs in Israel have equal voting rights; in fact, it is one of the few places in the Middle East where Arab women may vote. Arabs currently hold 8 seats in the 120-seat Knesset. Israeli Arabs have also held various government posts, including one who served as Israel's ambassador to Finland and the current deputy mayor of Tel Aviv. Oscar Abu Razaq was appointed Director General of the Ministry of Interior, the first Arab citizen to become chief executive of a key government ministry. Ariel Sharon's original cabinet included the first Arab minister, Salah Tarif, a Druze who served as a minister without portfolio. An Arab is also a Supreme Court justice.

Arabic, like Hebrew, is an official language in Israel. More than 300,000 Arab children attend Israeli schools. At the time of Israel's founding, there was one Arab high school in the country. Today, there are hundreds of Arab schools.

In 2002, the Israeli Supreme Court also ruled that the government cannot allocate land based on religion or ethnicity, and may not prevent Arab citizens from living wherever they choose.2a

The sole legal distinction between Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel is that the latter are not required to serve in the Israeli army. This is to spare Arab citizens the need to take up arms against their brethren. Nevertheless, Bedouins have served in paratroop units and other Arabs have volunteered for military duty. Compulsory military service is applied to the Druze and Circassian communities at their own request.

Some economic and social gaps between Israeli Jews and Arabs result from the latter not serving in the military. Veterans qualify for many benefits not available to non-veterans. Moreover, the army aids in the socialization process.

On the other hand, Arabs do have an advantage in obtaining some jobs during the years Israelis are in the military. In addition, industries like construction and trucking have come to be dominated by Israeli Arabs.

Although Israeli Arabs have occasionally been involved in terrorist activities, they have generally behaved as loyal citizens. During the 1967, 1973 and 1982 wars, none engaged in any acts of sabotage or disloyalty. Sometimes, in fact, Arabs volunteered to take over civilian functions for reservists. During the outbreak of violence in the territories that began in September 2000, Israeli Arabs for the first time engaged in widespread protests with some violence.

The United States has been independent for almost 230 years and still has not integrated all of its diverse communities. Even today, 60 years after civil rights legislation was adopted, discrimination has not been eradicated. It should not be surprising that Israel has not solved all of its social problems in only 57 years.” http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... /mf18.html

16- In 1967, Israel occupied the West Bank (including the old city of Jerusalem ) and Gaza strip. Together these two areas are 22% of historic Palestine . Israel began immediately to build Jewish colonial settlements in these Palestinian lands. Contrary to International law, there are now over 200 settlements on our lands housing over 0.5 million Jewish colonial settlers.
*

Mazin Qumsiyeh again conveniently excludes the how Israel came to “occupy” the “West Bank” and Gaza. For a second time the Arab armies tried to “drive the Jews into the sea” in 1967 but failed. God was not done with Judah and had promised that they would occupy the Holy Land till Christ comes to save them from Gog and his armies in our future. Israel wisely took control of Judea from Jordan who had attacked them and uses it as a buffer against any more attacks by the Arabs. Down south Israel took control of Gaza from Egypt who had also attacked them and retrained it for the same reason. During the “Yom Kippur War” Egypt lost again and Israel kept control of the Sinai as a buffer against more Egyptian aggression.

17- Israel has built walls around the remaining Palestinian enclaves (ghettos, people warehouses, cantons, reservations) and isolated them from each other and from the rest of Palestine . These walls separate Palestinians from their lands, from other Palestinians, from schools, from hospitals etc. As an example, the Bethlehem district houses 180,000 natives, some 50,000 of us living there are refugees from 1948 period. All of us are restricted now to develop and live on only 13% of the original Bethlehem district size. 87% of the district is now under control of Israeli settlements, military bases, closed military zones etc. The Bethlehem people are isolated behind a wall and even Jerusalem (6 km away) is off-limits to us.
*

The only reason Israel has built walls is to protect their citizens from the fanatical murderers in the Arab populations of Judea (West Bank). These walls and fences have saved lives of men women and children whom the terrorists target.

The “Palestinians” live in poverty because the PLO leaders siphon off any money they get from the UN and America and goes into weapons to kill Jews or into their Swiss bank accounts. Little of the money goes to build factories or infrastructure to help their own people. This is by design. How else do they build hatred for the Jews? Their plan to exterminate the Jews would fall apart if they were to become a peaceful and prosperous people who would live next to Israel?
The “Palestinian” people are the true victims here, caught between the fanatics and Jihadists who are their leaders and the Jews who are only trying to protect their families from the cold blooded killers on the other side of the fence.

18- Colonialism involves violence. Over 80 massacres were committed against native Palestinians. Over 60,000 Palestinian civilians were killed by Israeli forces and settlers. This is ten times more than the number of Israeli civilians (most colonial settlers) killed by Palestinians. Palestinians resisted colonialism over the past 130 years mostly by using non-violent popular resistance =)) something not widely discussed in the Western countries because of attempts to vilify the victims.
*

Again I feel for the “Palestinian” people who are used by the terrorists and Jihadists as human shields. I am sure most would love to live as their Arab brothers inside of Israel do, in peace and mutual commerce.

19- Palestinians and other Arab countries in conflict with Zionism have been “unreasonably reasonable” =)) as one diplomat described it.



Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood, al Qaeda, nor the surrounding Arab nations have guaranteed the right of Israel to exist. They all want Israel’s destruction and replaced by an Islamic government ruled by Sharia. All have said they want to either exterminate the Jews or have them leave the Middle East all together. To them THAT is “reasonable”.

We accept all elements of International law` and all UN (United Nations) resolutions on the issue. Israel by contrast, violated over 60 UN Security Council resolutions and over 200 UN General Assembly Resolutions. Without the USA using its veto power to shield Israel from International law at the UN SC, the number would have been doubled.
*
That is because the UN is controlled and populated by nations who want the destruction of Israel or have bought into the myths of the “Palestinians” and the Jewish “Apartheid” state. UN resolutions are political documents issued by a body of nations which is prejudiced against the state of Israel.

See: The United Nations By Mitchell G. Bard
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... UN.html#10

Ezekiel talks about how when Gog attacks Israel they will have no friend in the world including us. Go figure.

20- We Palestinians demand and are struggling for our right to return and to self-determination. We call for a democratic pluralistic state for people of all religions in our historic homeland of Palestine .

This is one of the plans on eliminating the nation of Israel without a war. Have all of the “Palestinian refugees” and their ancestors return, take over the country through elections and turn it into an Islamic nation ruled by Sharia and the Qur’an. Neither the Jews of Israel nor their peaceful Arabs friends living there want this. They know what would happen to their freedoms if this occurred.

We call for equality and justice. People in Europe and around the world can support us by using education, by coming to visit us, and by Boycotts, Divestments, and Sanctions (BDS). This is a collective human struggle similar to what happened in challenging apartheid in South Africa .
*

The first victim of the “Palestinian” movement is the truth. The second is the Palestinian people themselves.


BTW, AussieOI, Thanks for the discussion on the nation of Israel, Judah and the turmoil which is occurring in the world today. Your challenges have made me do more research and have helped my testimony grow of God’s dealings with His covenant people, the Jews. I am sure you feel differently. Debate does expand our knowledge if nothing else than what the other side thinks and believes. Thank You, My Friend.

Old Man Dalton :)

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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

Post by kingbmm »

OMD,

kingbmm
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

Post by kingbmm »

OMD,
Thank you for this thread. Its obvious that the libertarian ideology has also distorted the spiritual and temporal connection that we have with our brothers and sisters in Israel. This is something that needs to be corrected or we will suffer the judgments of God.

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AussieOi
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

Post by AussieOi »

kingbmm wrote:OMD,
Thank you for this thread. Its obvious that the libertarian ideology has also distorted the spiritual and temporal connection that we have with our brothers and sisters in Israel. This is something that needs to be corrected or we will suffer the judgments of God.

i love your avatar
i love how it actually demonises Ron Paul, and the text repeats and confirms. truely poetic

thank him for what? spending hours finding words to fit a view that oppressing, murdering, humiliating and dispossessing a people is acceptable because WE lds have a scripture that says god will gather them and they will return to Jerusalem?

Please advise the following

What is this "libertarian ideology" you speka of?
What are the "spiritual and temporal connection that we have with our brothers and sisters in Israel"?
How this libertarian ideology has "distorted" that?
Why will we need to suffer the judgments of God? and what are these?

I read that GOD will bring all nations into (the state of) Israel and cleanse his people
THENm a remnant remaining will be saved by the return of HIS son, and they will see HIS wounds, and then accept him.
I see nothign here that suggests Palestinians or other people there won't accept Christ. Indeed I HOPE so.
God is NOT a respector, and ABrahamic Covenant iextends to his son Ishmael as I understand also

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Oldemandalton
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

Post by Oldemandalton »

No, Iran is NOT building nuclear weapons and IF they were they would never use the offensively against Israel or America.


Wife Admits: Slain Iranian Nuke Scientist‘s ’Ultimate Goal Was the Annihilation of Israel’
Posted on February 22, 2012 at 12:37pm by Sharona Schwartz

Image
Mourners at Roshan's funeral in January chanted "Death to Israel" and "Death to America." (AP Photo/Mehr News Agency, Mojtaba Heidari)

As the U.S. and Europe place sanctions on Iran for the nuclear program suspected of having a military aim, Iran continues to insist its work is for peaceful purposes only. =)) That claim will likely suffer a setback by an interview published Tuesday in the semi-official Fars News Agency.

The wife of slain nuclear scientist Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan tells Fars her husband wholeheartedly sought Israel’s destruction.

Roshan, a chemistry expert and a director of the Natanz uranium enrichment facility, was killed during morning rush hour in Tehran in January after a magnetic bomb was attached to his car.

No one has claimed responsibility for killing the nuclear scientist, but Iran has blamed the CIA, MI6 and Mossad for a string of assassinations targeting its nuclear scientists.

Here’s an excerpt of Fars’ report:

Wife of Assassinated Scientist: Annihilation of Israel “Mostafa’s Ultimate Goal”

TEHRAN (FNA)- The wife of Martyr Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan Behdast, who was assassinated by Mossad agents in Tehran in January, reiterated on Tuesday that her husband sought the annihilation of the Zionist regime wholeheartedly.

“Mostafa’s ultimate goal was the annihilation of Israel,” Fatemeh Bolouri Kashani told FNA on Tuesday.
Bolouri Kashani also underlined that her spouse loved any resistance figure in his life who was willing to fight the Zionist regime and supported the rights of the oppressed Palestinian nation.

This is not the first time Iranian officials have been quoted calling for Israel’s destruction. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said that Israel “must be erased from the page of time” and that the solution to the Middle East conflict is the “elimination” of Israel.

The combination of these calls for annihilation along with the prospects of the Islamic Republic being one day armed with a doomsday weapon is at the core of the debate over whether Israel should attempt a military attack to thwart Iran’s nuclear progress.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/iranian ... of-israel/

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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

Post by Oldemandalton »

AussieOi
I see nothign here that suggests Palestinians or other people there won't accept Christ. Indeed I HOPE so.
God is NOT a respector, and ABrahamic Covenant iextends to his son Ishmael as I understand also

Aussie, I have always thought that those who witness Christ’s appearance on Mt Olivet and the destruction of 4/5ths of the army of Gog would convert to Christ. How could they not? Even the 1/5th remaining would be converted and return to their home countries. Is this how the gospel goes to the Muslims? This event could be a uniting of the Jews and Muslims finally after centuries of hatred when both people find out they were wrong.

As far as Abraham's Covenant, my reading of the scriptures and Church literature shows that it went to Isaac and then Jacob. Do you have scriptures that may indicate otherwise?

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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

Post by sbsion »

what's the difference than NITTY and gang wanting to kill all the Christians?

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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

Post by kingbmm »

AussieOi wrote:
kingbmm wrote:OMD,
Thank you for this thread. Its obvious that the libertarian ideology has also distorted the spiritual and temporal connection that we have with our brothers and sisters in Israel. This is something that needs to be corrected or we will suffer the judgments of God.


i love how it actually demonises Ron Paul, and the text repeats and confirms. truely poetic

thank him for what? spending hours finding words to fit a view that oppressing, murdering, humiliating and dispossessing a people is acceptable because WE lds have a scripture that says god will gather them and they will return to Jerusalem?

Please advise the following

What is this "libertarian ideology" you speka of?
What are the "spiritual and temporal connection that we have with our brothers and sisters in Israel"?
How this libertarian ideology has "distorted" that?
Why will we need to suffer the judgments of God? and what are these?

I read that GOD will bring all nations into (the state of) Israel and cleanse his people
THENm a remnant remaining will be saved by the return of HIS son, and they will see HIS wounds, and then accept him.
I see nothign here that suggests Palestinians or other people there won't accept Christ. Indeed I HOPE so.
God is NOT a respector, and ABrahamic Covenant iextends to his son Ishmael as I understand also
i love your avatar
Why thank you!
i love how it actually demonises Ron Paul, and the text repeats and confirms. truely poetic
Truth is truth Aussie.
What is this "libertarian ideology" you speka of?
You know very well the libertarian idealogy I speak of.
What are the "spiritual and temporal connection that we have with our brothers and sisters in Israel"?
Really?

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AussieOi
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

Post by AussieOi »

we LDS are "Israel"
they are Jews.
Although in the (militaristic) state of Israel, they are Jew, non jew, christian, coptic, druid, moslem, and everything else

Who specifically are you referring to as "our brothers and sisters in Israel"? Are you auggesting the moslem in the country is not our brother and sister

or are we (Mormons & Jews) more favoured by god

do you mean brothers and sisters in the faith?

for the life of me we have more in common lately with islam than the mob running the state of israel

jews dont even believe in christ.

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AussieOi
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

Post by AussieOi »

and are you saying Ron is a demon?

and dont reply with a stupid smug "you said it" kind of comment either

put up or nick off

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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

Post by sbsion »

well said AO, to bad so many have such a narrow view of life?

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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

Post by AussieOi »

Am just tired of people perpetuating emnity amongst us all.

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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

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Pages, 14-18, Fantastic Victory: Israel's Rendezvous With Destiny, by W. Cleon Skousen

MOSLEM RESENTMENT OF THE JEWS AS A "CHOSEN PEOPLE"

Watching from the sidelines, it is often impossible to discover the rational basis for many policies adopted by the Arab leaders. They often seem to be doing the very thing which is most likely to hurt them. However, in order to catch their point of view and grasp some semblance of understanding of how the Moslem-Arab mentality functions; it is essential to talk to them about their religion. It is amazing how much Arab policy is rooted in religious convictions. This is particularly true when it comes to the Moslem Arab's attitude toward the Jews.

The Moslems have their own version of Bible history but they accept the Bible in general terms as the inspired scripture antedating the Koran. Mohammed had frequent occasion to be with Jewish Rabbis and Catholic fathers and was extensively tutored by a monk named Bahira.9

Mohammed's writings therefore include teachings from both the Old and New Testaments. Theoretically, the followers of Mohammed (usually called Moslems or the people of Islam) look upon the Jews as fellow Semites (descendants of Shem) and "the people of the Book" -- the Bible. But I noted that the Moslems in Jerusalem present the Arabs as the "chosen people" rather than the Jews. They told us it all goes back to the time when Abraham offered up his son, Isaac, as a sacrifice.

According to the Moslem Arabs in Jerusalem, it was Ishmael, son of Hagar, and not Isaac who was offered up as a sacrifice. The Arabs say God intervened to save Ishmael's life because He intended to make a great people of Ishmael. They believe that since God saved Ishmael from being sacrificed it showed that he was preferred of the Lord and that his descendants, the Arabs, would be a preferred people.10

The sacrifice or offering of Abraham's son took place on Mount Moriah in Jerusalem. Both Jews and Arabs agree as to that. It is supposed to have taken place on the white outcropping of limestone which is beneath the famous and beautiful Moslem mosque called "The Dome of the Rock." This is located in the midst of the temple block in Old Jerusalem. It was the former crest of Mount Moriah and the walls of the square had to be built around the area to shore it up and make it possible for Solomon to build a temple on this sacred spot. Jewish tradition has it that this spot was once covered by the magnificent temple of Solomon and that this rock was actually in the Holy of Holies where the Ark of the Covenant rested.

It immediately can be seen what an explosive issue the possession of this site has become insofar as these two great tribal peoples are concerned. The Moslems say this spot was further sanctified to them in the seventh century A.D. when Mohammed told his followers that during a dream his soul was brought from Arabia to this place and that from here he ascended to heaven on a white horse.11 Mohammed said he met all of the major prophets mentioned in the Bible (including Jesus whom Mohammed said was a great prophet) and that afterwards God personally instructed him as to the manner in which Moslems were to live and worship. Mohammed said the white horse then brought him back to Jerusalem. This is an additional reason why Jerusalem thereupon became, and has ever since remained, one of the most sacred shrines of devout Moslems.

During one of the United Nations sessions on Palestine, the Israeli representative pointed out that the Jews must have access to Jerusalem since otherwise they cannot mandate from God to rebuild the temple. The Arab representative promptly replied with great vehemence before Moslems permitted the Jews to disturb that spot where the Dome of the Rock is located, there be Jehad -- Holy War!

Because Ishmael is looked upon by the Arabs as their great patriarchal ancestor, they memorialize the important events of his life. For example, at Mecca the second most sacred shrine to all Moslems, is the famous well, the Zam-zam, where they believe the angel of the Lord miraculously provided water to save the life of Ishmael and his mother, Hagar.

Another incident in the Bible which is a bone of contention between Arabs and Jews is the occasion when Jacob took away Esau's birthright.
It will be recalled that Isaac had twin sons, Jacob and Esau. Esau was the elder but he sold his birthright to Jacob for a mess of pottage.12 By subterfuge Jacob subsequently obtained the birthright blessing from his father.13 Eventually, the disinherited Esau married a daughter of Ishmael14 and his descendants thereafter mingled with the seed of Ishmael to create the princely kingdom of the Edomites, the first Arab nation. Jacob went on to have twelve sons, one of whom was Judah, ancestor of the Jews. Modern Arabs say that just as Jacob cheated Esau, so today Jacob's descendants are trying to cheat Esau's descendants out of their birthright.

From these examples it is easy to appreciate why some Arab antagonisms toward the Jews are not a superficial or recent development but go back to their interpretation of events which occurred almost 4,000 years ago.

THE MOSLEM REJECTION OF JEWISH PROPHECY

Of course, in the Bible (which Moslems accept as a sacred book) it is very clear that the Jews, after their long dispersion, must return to Jerusalem and rebuild their temple. How will the Arabs deal with that? They have an answer. They say those are true prophecies but they were all fulfilled 1,400 years ago!

They point out that when the Jews were captured by the Babylonians in a series of attacks which culminated in the destruction of Solomon's temple and the sacking of Jerusalem (587 B.C.), that was the dispersion of the Jews the Bible was talking about. All the survivors of that great destruction were hauled off to Babylon and assigned to a number of colonies. However, when Persia conquered Babylon, the great Persian ruler, Cyrus, allowed the Jews to gather again and return to Jerusalem. In due time they rebuilt their temple (admittedly not as fine as Solomon's but they did rebuild it) and it was finished in 516 B.C. This, the Arabs say, put the Jews back in Palestine as God had promised them. However, according to the Moslems, the Jews did not remain true to God's commandments. Therefore they were conquered -- first by the Greeks, then by the Syrians, finally by the Romans. In 70 A.D. the Romans besieged Jerusalem and eventually drove the Jews forever from that place. The Arabs say this was God's punishment. Because of their wickedness He disinherited the Jews and left all their lands to be taken over and cared for by the Arabs.

They further point out that in the days of the Crusades the Christians tried to take Palestine away from the Arabs but God blessed Saladin and his Arab warriors with victory. They say that now the Jews are trying to take Palestine again, but God will utterly desolate them through the vengeance of Arab arms. In the eyes of the believer, eventual destruction of Israel is inevitable.

This will explain why the Arab leaders call their war to exterminate Israel a Jehad. It is a holy war to fulfill the will of Allah. Consequently, Nasser and his associates in the Arab League reason that no Arab nation should give diplomatic recognition of Israel or give her the least excuse for thinking she will enjoy a permanent peace. There has been some heated discussion among the Arabs as to just how the Jews should be exterminated. Nasser has insisted that there should be a massive buildup of arms and devastating modern weapons so that Israel can be wiped out in one mighty blow of total destruction. The Syrians, on the other hand, have contended that Israel should be worn down with terrorism and guerilla warfare along her borders. Actually, the Arab leaders have tried both.

9. Anthony Nutting, The Arabs, New York, Mentor Books, 1964, pp. 26-27.
10. Ishmael consistently appears before Isaac in the Koran and is presented as the confidant of Abraham in establishing Mecca, building the Kaaba or temple and setting up this center as a place of worship for all true believers. See the Koran II:133, 136, 140; IV:163; VI:87; XIV:39; XIX:54ff; XXI:85; XXXVIII:49.
11. Anthony Nutting, The Arabs, p. 29.
12. Genesis 25:29-34.
13. Genesis, Chapter 27. For a commentary on this incident see W. Cleon Skousen, The Third Thousand Years, pp. 39-44.
14. Genesis 28:8-9.

sbsion
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

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yup....chose for what, to crucify Christ and be the last to be redeemed, like a protigal son

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

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Oldemandalton wrote:
AussieOi
I see nothign here that suggests Palestinians or other people there won't accept Christ. Indeed I HOPE so.
God is NOT a respector, and ABrahamic Covenant iextends to his son Ishmael as I understand also

Aussie, I have always thought that those who witness Christ’s appearance on Mt Olivet and the destruction of 4/5ths of the army of Gog would convert to Christ. How could they not? Even the 1/5th remaining would be converted and return to their home countries. Is this how the gospel goes to the Muslims? This event could be a uniting of the Jews and Muslims finally after centuries of hatred when both people find out they were wrong.

As far as Abraham's Covenant, my reading of the scriptures and Church literature shows that it went to Isaac and then Jacob. Do you have scriptures that may indicate otherwise?


If you are finally admitting that this is to be the case when Jews are purged by the Lord and are to be converted personally by the Lord, why in the world do you keep regurgitating the warmongering propaganda of our establishment?

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Oldemandalton
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Re: Ayatollah: Kill All The Jews

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InfoWarrior82

AussieOi
"I see nothign here that suggests Palestinians or other people there won't accept Christ. Indeed I HOPE so.
God is NOT a respector, and ABrahamic Covenant iextends to his son Ishmael as I understand also"


OMD:
"Aussie, I have always thought that those who witness Christ’s appearance on Mt Olivet and the destruction of 4/5ths of the army of Gog would convert to Christ. How could they not? Even the 1/5th remaining would be converted and return to their home countries. Is this how the gospel goes to the Muslims? This event could be a uniting of the Jews and Muslims finally after centuries of hatred when both people find out they were wrong.
As far as Abraham's Covenant, my reading of the scriptures and Church literature shows that it went to Isaac and then Jacob. Do you have scriptures that may indicate otherwise?"

InfoWarrior82
If you are finally admitting that this is to be the case when Jews are purged by the Lord and are to be converted personally by the Lord, why in the world do you keep regurgitating the warmongering propaganda of our establishment?

InfoWarrior please cite for me where I “keep regurgitating the warmongering propaganda of our establishment?”

If you are referring to my posting of events that are occurring in the Middle East then what is wrong with the truth? It is up to each of us to learn and read what is going on then make decisions from it. The more sources for info we research the better equipped we are to make an informed decision on facts not distortions or fiction.

God has promised and has taken an active part in the Jews returning to the Holy Land, establishing a nation there, rebuilding Jerusalem and who will soon build the 3rd Temple on the Temple Mount. God has told us that the world will hate Judah, go to war against her and attempt to destroy them. God has promised that He will fight for them through two witnesses and in the end just before their destruction He will send His Son down to destroy Judah’s enemies. IMO many of the Jews will be converted during the 3 ½ years of war and build their temple then. The rest of the Jews and the remnant of the Islamic army will convert when they see the Savior split Mt Olivet and save the Jews. How will the Jews and Muslims deny that Jesus is the Christ, the Jew’s promised Messiah and Islam’s Mahdi? IMO that is when they will repent of their centuries long hatred for each other and join with us in worshiping Jesus Christ and His Father.

This is all in the scriptures InfoWarrior. Why be surprised I believe it?

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