Ron Paul runs - Ron Paul Wins!

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

How does that relate to a person?

For the purposes of this world: you own you, your mind, your body, your speech, the fruits of your labor, etc.

Except for intellectual property right....the fruits of your mental labor...

I did not say that.

Another thread....

Indeed: Constitutional Amendment: Abolishing Copyrights and Patents.

Read it again. I did not say that.

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

I disagree that the kingmen had a explicit contract and thus forfeited their heads.

The kingmen had been actively trying to overthrow the Nephite nation internally by force of arms. THAT was the violation that then gave Moroni the right to give them the choice to take up arms to defend their nation or be executed.

AFAIK Moroni never went to a citizen who was otherwise minding his business and compell them to take up arms. It was their treasonous activity that gave Moroni the moral authority to do as he did. (my opinion)

As far as the Jews and genocide - they were acting under explicit command of God, just as Nephi did when he beheaded Laban. That was not carte blanche for all people in all times to commit genocide against anyone that they wanted. Also, remember that God commanded them to at least in one case not take a spoil but to destroy everything. Maybe the lesson was that it was not a conquest to gain wealth but rather was God providing for his people a homeland (and he was likely punishing the existing inhabitants for their wickedness as well). The point is it was done by direct commandment from God.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Who determines ownership....since God owns everything....

Definitely not you. God does, and he gave you a rule to follow:


"A just owner of a property is either the first user, or the recipient of it via voluntary gift, bequest or sale."

Care to provide a reference for where He stated those exact words?

Yeah, "Thou shalt not steal." (Ex. 20:15)

I reckon I must have pretty poor eyesight because I'm having great difficulty seeing those exact words at that reference....by since you speak for God and His rules (verbatim of course)....perhaps you could just get that one added...

These are Natural and Eternal laws of ownership. Not every self evident fact must be spelled in the Bible to be valid, my friend. Multiplication table is not found in the Bible either, but it makes it no less true. So if you wish, you can add 2x2=4 to the Bible, if it makes you feel better. And while you are at it don't forget 5x5=25, etc. ... You get my point. These are self-evident truths. Kindergarten children are capable of understanding them. So grow up.

Yeah I get your point....you just declare whatever you want supported by whatever you want and expect everyone else to just take it as doctrine. And if they don't then you just attack them personally.....clear as day....a kindergartener can understand that!!!

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

I disagree that the kingmen had a explicit contract and thus forfeited their heads.

The kingmen had been actively trying to overthrow the Nephite nation internally by force of arms. THAT was the violation that then gave Moroni the right to give them the choice to take up arms to defend their nation or be executed.

AFAIK Moroni never went to a citizen who was otherwise minding his business and compell them to take up arms. It was their treasonous activity that gave Moroni the moral authority to do as he did. (my opinion)

Excellent point.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

How does that relate to a person?

For the purposes of this world: you own you, your mind, your body, your speech, the fruits of your labor, etc.

Except for intellectual property right....the fruits of your mental labor...

I did not say that.

Another thread....

Indeed: Constitutional Amendment: Abolishing Copyrights and Patents.

Read it again. I did not say that.

LOL...you most assuredly did -
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16562&p=183332&hilit=intellectual+property#p183694

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

Well, FWIW I agree with you on IP Jason - it seems that the things that we agree on are a rapidly diminishing commodity...

[JasonI am a nobody!]

I disagree that the kingmen had a explicit contract and thus forfeited their heads.

The kingmen had been actively trying to overthrow the Nephite nation internally by force of arms. THAT was the violation that then gave Moroni the right to give them the choice to take up arms to defend their nation or be executed.

AFAIK Moroni never went to a citizen who was otherwise minding his business and compell them to take up arms. It was their treasonous activity that gave Moroni the moral authority to do as he did. (my opinion)

As far as the Jews and genocide - they were acting under explicit command of God, just as Nephi did when he beheaded Laban. That was not carte blanche for all people in all times to commit genocide against anyone that they wanted. Also, remember that God commanded them to at least in one case not take a spoil but to destroy everything. Maybe the lesson was that it was not a conquest to gain wealth but rather was God providing for his people a homeland (and he was likely punishing the existing inhabitants for their wickedness as well). The point is it was done by direct commandment from God.

Moroni's authority to put them to death came by government decree (law)...

Now behold, this was contrary to the laws of the land, that any man should be put to death except they had power from the governor of the land—

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne ... ang=eng#23

And it came to pass that he sent a petition, with the voice of the people, unto the governor of the land, desiring that he should read it, and give him (Moroni) power to compel those dissenters to defend their country or to put them to death.

And it came to pass that it was granted according to the voice of the people.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma ... ang=eng#14

...the majority - obviously not all agreed

Now, Moroni being a man who was aappointed by the chief judges and the voice of the people, therefore he had power according to his will with the armies of the Nephites, to establish and to exercise authority over them.

And it came to pass that whomsoever of the Amalickiahites that would not enter into a covenant to support the acause of freedom, that they might maintain a free bgovernment, he caused to be put to death; and there were but few who denied the covenant of freedom.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma ... ang=eng#34

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Well, FWIW I agree with you on IP Jason - it seems that the things that we agree on are a rapidly diminishing commodity...

...sure seems that way...for whatever reason....

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

Let's summarize some more. "Jason" asserts:

1) He is a self-avowed Statist.
2) Free Market is a false theory.
3) "We need a police state." And to top it all off:
4) There is no such thing as private property!

This is the position of every tyrant and dictator that ever lived. You are messed up, "Jason." You have no understanding of correct principles of Liberty. You should be ashamed of yourself! What you are teaching is actually wicked!

Get over your ego and repent. Just a suggestion.

Jesus would be ashamed of the doctrines you embrace.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Let's summarize some more. "Jason" asserts:

1) He is a self-avowed Statist.
2) Free Market is a false theory.
3) "We need a police state." And to top it all off:
4) There is no such thing as private property!

This is the position of every tyrant and dictator that ever lived. You are messed up, "Jason." You have no understanding of correct principles of Liberty. You should be ashamed of yourself! What you are teaching is actually wicked!

Get over your ego and repent. Just a suggestion.

Jesus would be ashamed of the doctrines you embrace.

Oh great another personal attack....how's that ego and repentance going...

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

Let's summarize some more. "Jason" asserts:

1) He is a self-avowed Statist.
2) Free Market is a false theory.
3) "We need a police state." And to top it all off:
4) There is no such thing as private property!

This is the position of every tyrant and dictator that ever lived. You are messed up, "Jason." You have no understanding of correct principles of Liberty. You should be ashamed of yourself! What you are teaching is actually wicked!

Get over your ego and repent. Just a suggestion.

Jesus would be ashamed of the doctrines you embrace.

Oh great another personal attack....how's that ego and repentance going...

Very well, thanks.


How is that a personal attack when I simply quoted you?

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Let's summarize some more. "Jason" asserts:

1) He is a self-avowed Statist.
2) Free Market is a false theory.
3) "We need a police state." And to top it all off:
4) There is no such thing as private property!

This is the position of every tyrant and dictator that ever lived. You are messed up, "Jason." You have no understanding of correct principles of Liberty. You should be ashamed of yourself! What you are teaching is actually wicked!

Get over your ego and repent. Just a suggestion.

Jesus would be ashamed of the doctrines you embrace.

Oh great another personal attack....how's that ego and repentance going...

Very well, thanks.

How is that a personal attack when I simply quoted you?

Oh yeah no bias there....[sarcasm off]

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Since you have all the truth LIT - Is this history true?

Mr. Anonymous & The Libertarian Movement
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0812/S ... vement.htm

Eyes on the Prize (Sidebar to Mr. Anonymous)
http://www.thebellforum.com/content.php ... -the-Prize

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

Ron Paul is the Only One who wants to End the Fed.

Fed, and monetary system is THE issue of this election.
Ron Paul is the only one who was consistent on this issue for over 30 years!

Listen to this! Explains the Fed:

http://www.moneyradio1510.com/Audio-Archive?id=4599

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Ron Paul is the Only One who wants to End the Fed.

Fed, and monetary system is THE issue of this election.
Ron Paul is the only one who was consistent on this issue for over 30 years!

Listen to this! Explains the Fed:

http://www.moneyradio1510.com/Audio-Archive?id=4599

Yes...let's roll with the CFR/PNAC sponsored global gold standard...

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

Ron Paul is the Only One who wants to End the Fed.

Fed, and monetary system is THE issue of this election.
Ron Paul is the only one who was consistent on this issue for over 30 years!

Listen to this! Explains the Fed:

http://www.moneyradio1510.com/Audio-Archive?id=4599

Yes...let's roll with the CFR/PNAC sponsored global gold standard...

Let's roll with Free Competition in Currencies.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Ron Paul is the Only One who wants to End the Fed.

Fed, and monetary system is THE issue of this election.
Ron Paul is the only one who was consistent on this issue for over 30 years!

Listen to this! Explains the Fed:

http://www.moneyradio1510.com/Audio-Archive?id=4599

Yes...let's roll with the CFR/PNAC sponsored global gold standard...

Let's roll with Free Competition in Currencies.

Unconstitutional

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

Let's roll with Free Competition in Currencies.

Unconstitutional

Prove it.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Let's roll with Free Competition in Currencies.

Unconstitutional

Prove it.

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

Let's roll with Free Competition in Currencies.

Unconstitutional

Prove it.

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

But does it forbid private currencies? No.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Unconstitutional

Prove it.

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

But does it forbid private currencies? No.

Not as long as the government regulates them (local and foreign)....LOL

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

Unconstitutional

Prove it.

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

But does it forbid private currencies? No.

Not as long as the government regulates them (local and foreign)....LOL

"Thereof" means the value of money it coins. Learn to read.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

But does it forbid private currencies? No.

Not as long as the government regulates them (local and foreign)....LOL

"Thereof" means the value of money it coins. Learn to read.

"money" as in all money....and of foreign Coin....as in not local coin which was already covered....speaking of reading...

[Squallycaptain of 1,000]

#3 is a theory....do you know the definition of a theory??? Speaking of peddling manure....

A Republic...which is what the Constitution is designed to protect....is government based on law (read the Declaration of Independence)....not political ideals (of the masses). Free Market is also a theory...a false one at that. Without God and laws based on God's commandments....there is no liberty or freedom....or free market for that matter. Now ask yourself why Ron Paul voted in support of gays in the military...and ask yourself how God would have voted....

Thank you.

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

But does it forbid private currencies? No.

Not as long as the government regulates them (local and foreign)....LOL

"Thereof" means the value of money it coins. Learn to read.

"money" as in all money....and of foreign Coin....as in not local coin which was already covered....speaking of reading...

It does not say "all money." It would be preposterous to suppose that. Private currencies existed in US up to 1913.

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

#3 is a theory....do you know the definition of a theory??? Speaking of peddling manure....

A Republic...which is what the Constitution is designed to protect....is government based on law (read the Declaration of Independence)....not political ideals (of the masses). Free Market is also a theory...a false one at that. Without God and laws based on God's commandments....there is no liberty or freedom....or free market for that matter. Now ask yourself why Ron Paul voted in support of gays in the military...and ask yourself how God would have voted....

Thank you.

Ok. Let's summarize some more. "Jason" asserts:

1) He is a self-avowed Statist.
2) Free Market is a false theory.
3) "We need a police state." And to top it all off:
4) There is no such thing as private property!

This is the position of every tyrant and dictator that ever lived. You are messed up, "Jason." You have no understanding of correct principles of Liberty. You should be ashamed of yourself! What you are teaching is actually wicked!


Lovely. All of the above officially make you the enemy of Liberty! Congratulations! Wear it with pride! Just admit it: "I hate Liberty, and am an enemy to Liberty." Then you will be consistent.

Now back to your post. First you assert that Free Market is a false theory, then, magically, in the same paragraph, you say that with God and his laws you do have free market! How wonderful! You have outdone yourself. Your ability to have mutually exclusive ideas in your head is truly remarkable; actually it is truly Orwellian! Well, that makes you a good Statist, anyway. At least you are consistent at that.

Now about the commandments of God. Have you not read, "Thou shall not steal?" That is the definition of Free Market, my friend. Think about that. EVERY statist VIOLATES this commandment BY DEFINITION.

At least in one thing your are right. When God's law prevails, you WILL have Free Market, because Free Market IS Gods Law, because Free Market is nothing more than a cumulative expression of individual agency. Think about that. Private Property is Gods Law. Think about that too, as well about the Eternal commandment "Thou shall NOT STEAL."

As for gays in the military, Ron Paul simply voted to dis-empower the government from forcing confessions out of soldiers. And that was correct of him. Being wrong about things is another thing you seem to be consistent at! Keep it up .

Thank you.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

But does it forbid private currencies? No.

"Thereof" means the value of money it coins. Learn to read.

"money" as in all money....and of foreign Coin....as in not local coin which was already covered....speaking of reading...

It does not say "all money." It would be preposterous to suppose that. Private currencies existed in US up to 1913.

Whether or not they chose to regulate it....is a whole different affair than whether they had that power as established by the Constitution....

In the United States, the Free Banking Era lasted between 1837 and 1866, when almost anyone could issue paper money. While there are more restrictions today than in this era, it is still legal to create your own currencies. States, municipalities, private banks, railroad and construction companies, stores, restaurants, churches and individuals printed an estimated 8,000 different monies by 1860 and can still do so today (such as Bitcoin). If an issuer went bankrupt, closed, left town, or otherwise went out of business the note would be worthless. Such organizations earned the nickname of "wildcat banks" for a reputation of unreliability; they were often situated in remote, unpopulated locales said to be inhabited more by wildcats than by people. Yet according to Lawrence H. White's article in The Freeman, "it turns out that 'wildcat' banking is largely a myth. Although stories about crooked banking practices are entertaining—and for that reason have been repeated endlessly by textbooks—modern economic historians have found that there were in fact very few banks that fit any reasonable definition of wildcat bank".[1] The National Bank Act of 1863 ended the "wildcat bank" period.

In 2007, Angel Cruz, founder of The United Cities Corporation (TUC) in one of the dramatic abuses of the use of private currencies, announced he was establishing an alternative "asset based" currency named "United States Private Dollars".[2] Cruz claimed his "United States Private Dollars" were "backed by the total net worth of the assets of its members" and had printed $6,127,379,895 worth of the private currency.[3] According to a press release, these assets were $357,170,993,418.[4] The currency featured the slogan "In Jehovah We Trust".[5]

Several of Cruz's employees stated that they had been promised a 30-year contract, a new car, health insurance and payment of their debts. The workers received compensation in the form of checks from United Cities. Those checks were rejected as fraudulent by local banks after the employees deposited them because they lacked standard routing numbers.[6]

The U.S. Treasury Department's Office of the Comptroller of the Currency issued an alert warning banks that United Cities' checks were "valueless instruments" and should not be cashed.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_currency

...by the way...what's a personal check? still exist?

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

US Constitution never gave power to the government to forbid private currencies. That is a fact.

[LoveIsTruthcaptain of 1,000]

US Constitution never gave power to the government to forbid private currencies. That is a fact.

Pride cometh before the fall....

Just stating the facts.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

US Constitution never gave power to the government to forbid private currencies. That is a fact.

Pride cometh before the fall....

Just stating the facts.

Like the fact that private currencies still exist and weren't wiped out in 1913???