LDS Freedom Forum

by **buffalo_girl** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:34 pm

You know, if I had loved ones - mom, daughter, wife, sister, friend, cousin, aunt or grandmother - who had this surgery, I would be finding out if their implants were from that French company linked previously which has gone bankrupt for selling a terribly faulty product which appears to be causing all sorts of mayhem in the women who have them in their chest walls! The CEO is on the lam with a price on his head, for crying out loud!

Your loved ones' health is really the most important issue.

**Sponsor**

by **sisterp** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:35 pm

My two cents: I don't think there is necessarily a connection between boob jobs and being in the YW, except what has already been pointed out, i.e. often the sisters called to work in the YW are usually in the same age range as those who usually opt to have enhancements.

I can understand the argument against having YW leaders who are obviously enhanced, who talk about it, or show it off. I do think there is an example that needs to be set for our YW and they are under enough pressure already, and I don't know what my reaction would be if my 14yo daughter's YW leader started talking about or praising her boob job.... but there would certainly be some kind of reaction, probably involving a visit to the bishop. However, I don't completely agree with the comparison of the "ordering a cup of coffee and raving about it". Here is the main difference I see in those two things: we have been commanded not to drink coffee, we have not been commanded not to have boob jobs. Drinking coffee can keep you out of the temple, having a boob job can't.

Because it is not a commandment, I think it falls into the gray area for many people. Even people who "always always always follow the prophet" might still be torn about this, because the prophet has never said not to do it. When president Hinckley gave his talk about accepting ourselves as we are and not altering ourselves, to me, that helped me to cross boob job off my savings list. (That's not a joke, it was something I had considered and planned on and wanted for a lot of years... having a great figure before marriage and being left completely flat after babies, and having a husband that struggled with porn ALL contributed). However, the prophet went on to specifically mention tattoos and multiple piercings. He didn't specifically mention breast enhancements. Therefore... gray area for some people.

I don't think we can understand why anyone does it, unless we ask them directly, and so we should just not worry about it, it really isn't any of our business. However, I do agree that if they are influencing the young women in their charge that it is okay, acceptable, even necessary, then I think there is cause for concern. Not because they had a boob job... that is between them and the Lord, only because of the influence they are having on "my" daughter by promoting something "I" don't agree with, or feel is in harmony with the spirit of the gospel.

by **SwissMrs&Pitchfire** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:14 pm

Somebody want to ask the question of Church Leadership via the new For the Strength of Youth Q&A? Have a kid between 12-18? They can ask the question here (where it's likely to be answered openly):
https://lds.org/youth/secure/ask?lang=eng

by **ATL Wake** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:08 pm

Just to add one perspective.

My wife got implants last year. After kids, her chest evaporated. She felt like a boy. I always gave support and told her she was attractive and beautiful, but I knew she lacked self confidence in a big way. She is a yoga instructor and when she wore her gym clothes she felt embarrassed.

One day she told me that she was getting implants PERIOD. She didn't want to be big and she didn't want to be noticed, she just wanted to look like a woman.

I supported her because it was what she wanted. I helped her find the best doctor we could afford. And I helped take care of her throughout the whole procedure. It was a bonding experience in a spiritual way.

Now she has confidence she lacked. And people who do not know she had it done could never guess. She stayed relatively small because she is an active, athletic person who did not want to be bouncing around, but did not want to look like a boy.

Personally, I would probably think of her more highly if she had the self confidence without it. But some people just are not there. Everyone is at a different level and we should love, respect, and not judge no matter what level they are on. They are probably at a higher level than us in some other aspect.

by **ChelC** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:09 pm

ATL Wake wrote: They are probably at a higher level than us in some other aspect.

This is the thing I've been taught time and again. I can't even tell you how many times I've passed judgment on people because I'm putting one of their weaknesses against one of my strengths. In every case that comes to mind when I've come to know the person better I've discovered ways in which the dwarf me spiritually.

I don't think we evenly progress. In other words, if perfection means you're at 100% in charity, long suffering, wisdom, strength, faith, etc., I don't think we start out at zero and continue with 10% of all those things, and on up through perfection. We can be 90% when it comes to modesty, but 5% when it comes to strength- or whatever combo.

Some imperfections are easy to discern and some are not. I think this is a circumstance where we can not know of a person's worthiness based upon this one aspect.

by **natasha** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:01 am

Thank you, ChelC. Admittedly, I haven't read the WHOLE thread, but just enough to comrephend what's being said here. It really is an important item to be aware of....that we all progress at different levels and on different principles. There is always the outside chance that someone is acting "perfectly" for their level of knowledge and experience. Haven't we all had experience with how our children progress day to day and year to year? Hopefully we afford that same "growth time" to others. Like you, ChelC...I have quickly formed an opinion about someone only to later learn how very wrong I was.

by **shadow** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:37 am

SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:So in talking to my sister-in-law (my brothers wife) about our lives, she informed me that it's really bad down here and how many poeple in Utah, LDS people mind you, were getting boob jobs. What strikes me is how many of the poeple we have heard about did so while serving in Young Womens as leaders. What is it about these young women that we are so envious of, not their innocence and purity, but their boobs. What have we become? What has become of the daughters of Zion?

And just how many of these YW leaders got boob jobs while serving? My guess is that it's probably a small fraction of 1%. And what do you mean by "What have we become"? So a very small fraction of LDS women in the church now represent the whole? That's extreme isn't it?. And what do you mean by "What has become of the daughters of Zion"? Again, the very, very few now represent the whole? Most of the daughters of Zion that I know are doing wonderfully well!

Like I posted earlier, I'm in Utah and I only know of 3 women who've had boob jobs. One of them wished she hadn't and she is serving as a YW president in her ward. It's probably been close to 10 years ago when she had the operation and I haven't seen her in probably 5 yrs so I don't know what she now thinks of her modifications nor do I care. The other 2 people I have no idea if they even go to church. They were semi inactive anyway. These 3 women went to nursing school with my wife 10+ yrs ago. That's it, I don't know anyone else who's had the job nor is it my business. I know my wife would rather not have boobs at all and I could care less what she has or doesn't have. My own mother had a mastectomy close to 20 yrs ago and she never had anything done to repair the removal. I certainly wouldn't recommend getting a boob job even if only for the risk factor alone. My irritation comes from your generalization that the saints in Utah are "really bad" or rather their actions are "really bad". It's such a small fraction of people that have these operations that you're applying to the whole so it's irritating to me. It's a false judgement against the whole of the saints in Utah, most of which are great! Most of which don't get boob jobs. Even your thread title suggests that YW leaders get boob jobs when again, probably 99+% don't get them. Does that help explain my so called "bitterness"?

by **one4freedom** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:57 am

Wow, I know of WAY more than 3 women. Perhaps I'm just saturated in a different demographic. My wife's cousin had hers done @ 18...by her bishop. It get's better - he gave her a "ward discount." You can't make that stuff up.

by **Fiannan** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:10 pm

one4freedom wrote:Wow, I know of WAY more than 3 women. Perhaps I'm just saturated in a different demographic. My wife's cousin had hers done @ 18...by her bishop. It get's better - he gave her a "ward discount." You can't make that stuff up.

Nice bishop!

Come on...in a few years they will have treatments for aging that will make certain cosmetic surgeries obsolete. I will bet few people on the forum would pass that up.

As for breast jobs, again, who cares? I don't care if the ward clerk had his thingy enlarged or if the Relief Society President had a boob job, gets matching tattoos for both and a couple of rings put in. If that is what she wants, and her husband is all for it, then more power to them. Unless we make it a requirement that women go topless to Church the only one who should notice is her husband.

by **SwissMrs&Pitchfire** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:54 pm

My irritation comes from your generalization that the saints in Utah are "really bad" or rather their actions are "really bad". It's such a small fraction of people that have these operations that you're applying to the whole so it's irritating to me. It's a false judgement against the whole of the saints in Utah, most of which are great! Most of which don't get boob jobs. Even your thread title suggests that YW leaders get boob jobs when again, probably 99+% don't get them. Does that help explain my so called "bitterness"?

First off you changed it's really bad down here to the saints are really bad which is very dishonest of you. Second let me say that you know the chip on your shoulder predates this thread. But if you can't be honest about that I don't really care. I'm not going to defend my position here at all, it's a transparent issue that should be obvious and straightforward but many are blinded. I don't care what you think of me or how you berate me, I stand ready to account for all my choices before God and man. If you can find an error and prove it to me then you've made a friend of me. But in reality that's not your goal here.

By way of wrapping up my participation in this thread:

Anyone who believes that one cup of coffee will disqualify a person spiritually from the temple but that deliberately risking life and limb going under the knife to have bags of goo stuffed under their breast to make them more acceptable to man (not healthier, not longer lasting, not more honest or decent, not more modest or acceptable to God, or any other virtue) who believes the greater offense lay with the cup of coffee, and they are not as or more disqualified, seriously is delusional.

I think this is a circumstance where we can not know of a person's worthiness based upon this one aspect.

If a cup of coffee is such a circumstance I cannot conceive how this is not.

Now one post on judgement:

by **SwissMrs&Pitchfire** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:17 pm

If we take our covenants seriously then how can we ever not suffer somebody to partake of the sacrament unworthily or enter the temple unworthily without judging?

And that is a duty listed for Young men (regarding the sacrament) so don't tell me it's just for bishops, and its for all temple goers as well.

Don't bother answering me because it has nothing to do about me. I'm not here for myself. Believe me it costs me way more to be here than I ever get out of it except by way of bearing testimony of truth and advocating for it and trying to sincerely help others. I'm not here for my health nor pride. I'm not embarrassed to say that I haven't used deodorant nor regularly shampooed my hair in decades, nor any of the other aspects of my life everyone around us knows more than enough about us, not by way of boasting, by way of openness and honesty. When they shout from the rooftops there will nothing new be said about us.

But I don't want to confuse issues with people and I hate seeing it done so often here. Too many popularity contests and competition. Too many people that think the truth wanders with them. Enmity sets men against each other and it is not Godly, competition cannot be for that reason alone.

This thread has been very judgmental but not because of the first post that's for sure. Why so many are willing to go to bat for Babylon and call it Christlike I'll never know. They aren't interested in the sinner and helping them be better and progress. The coddle and excuse sin so as to make the sinner feel better about it. They act the part of the damner caring not whether the sinner rises and betters themselves. They are the parent that can never raise their children to be better than themselves fearing being called a hypocrites. They assume that anyone genuinely trying to help others progress is assuming an elevation sufficient to lift others to their height and condescending whilst building themselves and their pride up. I am truly sorry for you guys and pray that you will learn the truth of it.

We did not make this about ourselves and it should never have been an issue. But certain people with chips on their shoulders that predominately had nothing to do with this thread chose to make it an opportunity to avenge their feelings here. Anything we stated personally was not to say that we are better but by way of defense to illustrate that the measure we use to judge others is the same we use to judge ourselves. We expect anyone who professes to love or care for us to show us our error in love and help us over it, that's how it's supposed to work. I have always been on guard against easy friendships with free accolades. It makes me uncomfortable to say the least. I'm not interested in being told little lies of false "loyalty." Nor being defended when I am wrong. If we are too immature to take the truth when lies are also offered as loyal friendship, when people line up to coddle us in our sins, then we are too immature to progress. It was the Gadiantons who covered each others sins, not the poeple of God.

by **shadow** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:43 pm

I have no chip on my shoulder about anything regarding you Pitch or anything related to this thread or this site but indeed it does appear that someone here has a chip on their shoulder. Just don't blame me for it. :ymhug:

by **SwissMrs&Pitchfire** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:55 pm

Sad that you can say that and think you're being honest. My only chip or thorn is you repeatedly following me around making personal slights trying to distract from the issue at hand. Can you really lie and say that has not been the case?

by **shadow** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:06 pm

SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:Sad that you can say that and think you're being honest. My only chip or thorn is you repeatedly following me around making personal slights trying to distract from the issue at hand. Can you really lie and say that has not been the case?

If you can't see my point in taking issue with your (or the Mrs.) original post then fine, leave it at that. But now you claim that I follow you around and that I'm dishonest? Yikes! Who peed in your cheerios this morning?

Now lets see you back up your false allegations- show me where I've been following you around making personal slights in attempt to distract or be called a liar yourself. I'll wait around for this one! :-w

I think you'll find that it was you that brought me into your conversations etc. etc. So you see, you really do need figure out how to get rid of the ghost pains you're feeling in your side because I can assure you they're not from me. You bring them on yourself.

by **SwissMrs&Pitchfire** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:13 pm

Like I said, anyone can click on your user name and click view users posts...

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Re: Young Women's leaders and boob jobs-a thesis
Sad that you can say that and think you're being honest. My only chip or thorn is you repeatedly following me around making personal slights trying to distract from the issue at hand. Can you really lie and say that has not been the case? If you can't see my point in taking issue with your (or the ...

by shadow
Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:06 pm

Forum: Sisters in Zion
Topic: Young Women's leaders and boob jobs-a thesis
Replies: 104
Views: 1811

Jump to post

Re: Why do people chose a temple marriage
But you are that thorn Shadow, (although I think that's really flattering yourself). Any time I try to stand for truth here your always there to make it about something else and distract from what could help people to learn and adhere to truth. You mistakenly believe this is a contest and either of...

by shadow
Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:31 pm

Forum: Gospel Discussions
Topic: Why do people chose a temple marriage
Replies: 40
Views: 432

Jump to post

Re: Young Women's leaders and boob jobs-a thesis
I have no chip on my shoulder about anything regarding you Pitch or anything related to this thread or this site but indeed it does appear that someone here has a chip on their shoulder. Just don't blame me for it.

by shadow
Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:43 am

Forum: Sisters in Zion
Topic: Young Women's leaders and boob jobs-a thesis
Replies: 104
Views: 1811

Jump to post

Re: Young Women's leaders and boob jobs-a thesis
So in talking to my sister-in-law (my brothers wife) about our lives, she informed me that it's really bad down here and how many poeple in Utah, LDS people mind you, were getting boob jobs. What strikes me is how many of the poeple we have heard about did so while serving in Young Womens as leader...

by shadow
Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:37 am

Forum: Sisters in Zion
Topic: Young Women's leaders and boob jobs-a thesis
Replies: 104
Views: 1811

Jump to post

Re: Why do people chose a temple marriage
why wouldn't an LDS couple want to marry in the temple. Either we do or don't believe in the concept of eternal marriage and eternal families. You may be surprised at how many "active" LDS's on this site don't believe the church still has the sealing power. Thread reference please I am ju...

by shadow
Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:00 am

Forum: Gospel Discussions
Topic: Why do people chose a temple marriage
Replies: 40
Views: 432

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Re: How to address the severe division here
NoGreaterLove to be fair he (snuffer) said President Monson didn't have "ALL" The keys not he didn't have the keys. At least that is what I gained from it. I could be wrong. He states that the church does not have the sealing power, and he implies that we do not have the Melchizedek pries...

by shadow
Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:12 pm

Forum: DELETED Threads...
Topic: How to address the severe division here
Replies: 95
Views: 694

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Re: Why do people chose a temple marriage

AussieOi wrote: why wouldn't an LDS couple want to marry in the temple. Either we do or don't believe in the concept of eternal marriage and eternal families.

You may be surprised at how many "active" LDS's on this site don't believe the church still has the sealing power.

by shadow
Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:43 pm

Forum: Gospel Discussions
Topic: Why do people chose a temple marriage
Replies: 40
Views: 432

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Re: Polygamy: an abomination or legit circumstantial practic

Glenn wrote:...many treat polygamy like a semiconductor with only 50% resistance; its either approved/ordained , or not. Actually, polygamy is much more serious than that; the thresh hold to practice it is very high!

Thresh hold aside it still boils down to either being commanded to or not.

by shadow
Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:10 pm

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Polygamy: an abomination or legit circumstantial practice?
Replies: 96
Views: 502

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Re: Someone claims to have seen God
I wonder if it has to do with a control issue for people to get angry over messages about calling and election being made sure like Snuffer's. I wonder if they don't want others to achieve these things, because they would lose control over them... If everyone honestly sought after the Second Comfor...

by shadow
Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:42 pm

Forum: Gospel Discussions
Topic: Someone claims to have seen God
Replies: 38
Views: 493

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Re: Polygamy: an abomination or legit circumstantial practic
Col., why did you leave out verse 30 in Jacob 2?

by shadow
Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:02 pm

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Polygamy: an abomination or legit circumstantial practice?
Replies: 96
Views: 502

Jump to post

Re: Gayest city in america?

SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:I think my bitter friend that the chip on your shoulder is cauing you to stagger like a fool.

No bitter chip on my shoulder

by shadow
Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:59 am

Forum: News
Topic: Gayest city in america?
Replies: 15
Views: 391

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Re: Gayest city in america?
Where are you Shadow?... I'm still here my friend. I've been trying to honor my mother by throwing her under the bus. It's good therapy and I feel so validated. I'm pretty sure I'm close to being perfected now I've also been working on the gay men problem in Salt Lake City. I might have it...

by shadow
Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:23 am

Forum: News
Topic: Gayest city in america?
Replies: 15
Views: 391

Jump to post

Re: Pepsi's Lawyers Say Mountain Dew Can Dissolve A Mouse
When I was a kid my dad put a 16 duplex nail and it dissolved it!!!! Thats why I don't drink soda, never have!! PURE H20 And yet gastric acid is typically more acidic than soda Suck some of that stuff out of your stomach and soak a "16 duplex nail" in it and you'll get the same res...

by shadow
Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:24 am

Forum: Alternative Solutions
Topic: Pepsi's Lawyers Say Mountain Dew Can Dissolve A Mouse
Replies: 7
Views: 109

Jump to post

Re: Polygamy: an abomination or legit circumstantial practic
I'm not so sure it's being unreasonable as much as it is being overly assertive in their doctrinal beliefs about polygamy. Oh Col., you didn't type that with a straight face did you? Honestly, I don't think anyone is being overly assertive on this thread yet but if you want to see an example of ove...

by shadow
Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:17 pm

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Polygamy: an abomination or legit circumstantial practice?
Replies: 96
Views: 502

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Re: Polygamy: an abomination or legit circumstantial practic
Shall I post scripture references from the Bible and Book of Mormon condemning polygamy as an abomination? An honest person would recognize that polygamy without the command to live it is an abomination but an honest person would also recognize that if commanded it is not an abomination. So referen...

by shadow
Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:06 pm

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Polygamy: an abomination or legit circumstantial practice?
Replies: 96
Views: 502

Jump to post

Re: Polygamy: an abomination or legit circumstantial practic
So it used to be OK during the time of the early Saints, but now one is ex-communicated for practicing it, but in the celestial kingdom, it is practiced as part of the Lord's plan (as advocated by some)? $:-\$ Col., polygamy (as lived in mortality) has always been excommunicable unless o...

by shadow
Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:07 pm

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Polygamy: an abomination or legit circumstantial practice?
Replies: 96
Views: 502

Jump to post

Re: Polygamy: an abomination or legit circumstantial practic
May you be blessed with 100 wives Col.!! Polygamy is definitely legit. I know you do the best you can with what you have and I realize right now you lack a testimony of polygamy but to your contrary are a plethora of testimonies that polygamy is good and commanded of God. Keep working at it with...

by shadow
Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:01 pm

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Polygamy: an abomination or legit circumstantial practice?
Replies: 96
Views: 502

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Re: No rainbow and no winter?
Just shovelled 2 inches of the white stuff off my driveway here in northern Utah.

by shadow
Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:36 am

Forum: Last Days / Sign of the Times / Zion
Topic: No rainbow and no winter?
Replies: 13
Views: 425

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Re: Millions of homeowners paying mortgage with borrowed fun
Look at the title of this thread: "Millions of homeowners paying mortgage with borrowed funds". How about this: "Every single homeowner is paying the mortgage with borrowed funds" or how about this: "Everyone who is out of debt does it with borrowed funds". The hypocri...

by shadow
Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:09 pm

Forum: News
Topic: Millions of homeowners paying mortgage with borrowed funds
Replies: 19
Views: 385

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Re: Eternal Intelligence and its habitation?

bobhenstra wrote:Hmm, And I had such high hopes for you-----

Dad??

by shadow
Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:55 am

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Eternal Intelligence and its habitation?
Replies: 42
Views: 219

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Re: Eternal Intelligence and its habitation?
I don't golf either but who am I to argue with the scriptures?

by shadow
Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:28 am

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Eternal Intelligence and its habitation?
Replies: 42
Views: 219

Jump to post

Re: Eternal Intelligence and its habitation?
Before we came to earth we were playing basketball. We are subject to rules like double-dribbling, back-court, etc. When we got to earth the game changed, we are playing football. Now we have to worry about false-starts, blocking in the back, etc. After we are resurrected we start playing baseball,...

by shadow
Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:55 am

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Eternal Intelligence and its habitation?
Replies: 42
Views: 219

Jump to post

Re: Young Women's leaders and boob jobs-a thesis
Talking about boob jobs is one thing but when you attach people to it or label people then you're bordering on being judgemental. The topic is young women's leaders and boob jobs. Why not just boob jobs in general (the sin not the sinner)? Why attach people to it? Most young women leaders don't have...

by shadow
Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:46 pm

Forum: Sisters in Zion
Topic: Young Women's leaders and boob jobs-a thesis
Replies: 104
Views: 1811

Jump to post

Re: 2012 Priesthood and RS Manual
I guess I will rattle some chains as to why we are being blessed with HJG manuals and the rest of the church is getting GAS. Either your ward flunked the test a few yrs ago when we studied HJG so you guys have to retake the lessons or your ward leadership is apostate. Does your Bishop speak with an...

by shadow
Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:28 am

Forum: Gospel Discussions
Topic: 2012 Priesthood and RS Manual
Replies: 27
Views: 610

Jump to post

Re: Young Women's leaders and boob jobs-a thesis
I don't think anyone here (on this thread) recommends boob jobs. But your tone towards others, especially your own mother is quite judgmental and holier than thou IMO. Comparing a woman with implants to a child molester? Really? You have too much time conjure up crazy ideas up in Alaska if you ask m...

by shadow
Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:33 am

Forum: Sisters in Zion
Topic: Young Women's leaders and boob jobs-a thesis
Replies: 104
Views: 1811

Jump to post

Re: Eternal Intelligence and its habitation?
“The future of this world has long been declared; the final outcome between good and evil is already known. There is absolutely no question as to who wins because the victory has already been posted on the scoreboard. The only really strange thing in all of this is that we are still down here on the...

by shadow
Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:51 pm

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Eternal Intelligence and its habitation?
Replies: 42
Views: 219

Jump to post

Re: Eternal Intelligence and its habitation?
Not one of you has thrown away your last chance. You can change, you can come back, you can claim mercy. Come unto the only One who can heal, and you will find peace. -Elder Patrick Kearon It is wonderful to know that our Heavenly Father loves us--even with all our flaws! His love is such that even ...

by shadow
Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:29 pm

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Eternal Intelligence and its habitation?
Replies: 42
Views: 219

Jump to post

Re: Eternal Intelligence and its habitation?
“While one portion of the human race is judging and condemning the other without mercy, the Great Parent of the universe looks upon the whole of the human family with a fatherly care and paternal regard; He views them as His offspring, and without any of those contracted feelings that influence the ...

by shadow
Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:59 pm

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Eternal Intelligence and its habitation?
Replies: 42
Views: 219

Jump to post

Re: Tithing & fast offerings
Col., tithing and fast offerings are different. It's not your job to designate where tithing funds are paid to, it's your privilege to pay a full tithe and a generous fast offering. I know they are different - that is why I am wondering... if I make 3-4 large fast offering donations throughout the ...

by shadow
Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:44 am

Forum: Private Discussion
Topic: Tithing & fast offerings
Replies: 22
Views: 136

Jump to post

Re: What amount of church tithes are for the poor?

davedan wrote:It's not any of our business to "steady the ark" on this issue.

by shadow
Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:10 pm

Forum: Gospel Discussions
Topic: What amount of church tithes are for the poor?
Replies: 120
Views: 946

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by **SwissMrs&Pitchfire** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:15 pm

You really still think somebody can win this bitter personal war of yours? That's pretty sad. But it ends here as I'll engage no farther. I have shown you your error and called you to fix it hoping you would, but it's clear you are motivated to oppose and destroy and not better and build. It ends here.

by **shadow** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:54 pm

SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:You really still think somebody can win this bitter personal war of yours? That's pretty sad. But it ends here as I'll engage no farther. I have shown you your error and called you to fix it hoping you would, but it's clear you are motivated to oppose and destroy and not better and build. It ends here.

It's your war and you haven't shown anything. Where have I followed you around? Here's where you invited me into your "discussion"-
On the Temple Marriage thread-
Your words in red-
AussieOi wrote: why wouldn't an LDS couple want to marry in the temple. Either we do or don't believe in the concept of eternal marriage and eternal families.
shadow wrote: You may be surprised at how many "active" LDS's on this site don't believe the church still has the sealing power.
From Pitch- Thread reference please I am just aching for another thing to judge people by!

On the gayest city thread you posted-
I shutter to think of the responses had I posted this... Where are you Shadow?...
To which I responded with the best humor I could drum up which I understand was immature but hey, you asked for it.

If you don't want mean little old shadow to follow you around then stop asking me to!
Other than this thread and the threads I quoted from above I don't think we've had any back and forth have we? The 2 from above you clearly invited me to respond to you and I've explained why I didn't like your OP on this thread and still stand by my explanation which I think is a fair thing to do.
So it's you that needs to stop dragging me into your little war. I've shown your error (and exposed your lie) and hope it finally ends! (-|

by **AshleyB** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:25 pm

I think maybe this thread should be locked or deleted or something because things are getting way too personal. Some people sensed a judgmental air to the original post. It was just a feeling some got from reading it so they decided to add and extra perspective in the hopes of balancing things out. I can see how after hearing some of the same comments that, that may have gotten frustrating to you Swiss and Pitch. I have been on the other end of that and it does get frustrating especially if you feel misunderstood. I can even see how you may have felt judged and took offense. I think for the most part people did not mean to offend. Just adding some extra food for thought. The thing I do find interesting Swiss and Pitch is that in all honesty you both are the only ones that have seemed to take things so personal and I think this thread started going down hill when you started the name calling and ridiculing of others by saying everyone that may have misunderstood your intentions or did not agree with you were all just a part of Babylon. Since some people took issue with the intent of the original post I would think it would cause you to step back for just a sec and see maybe why that might be? Then if you still felt like it was just a misunderstanding explain yourself further and move on. I can see that you both are feeling defensive and have obviously felt attacked. But I think if you honestly go back and read through these threads you will see that you two were the only ones making rude personal comments. Again, I can see your point of view and why you may have gotten offended but do you honestly just see yourself as a helpless victim in all this? Again, I think you should go back and read things. You called everyone who disagreed with you or may have misunderstood you misogynists, women haters, you have accused everyone here of having a lack of conviction because they may not want to participate in something they see as negative. You have accused everyone who disagrees as being a part of Babylon. You have had no compassion for sisters who may deal with pornography issues and just told them to quit being a burden on society and that they should all just divorce their husbands. You claim that you will call anyone out on any sin at any time and you won't stand for these things and accuse everyone else of being too soft but just look at how you responded to a few people being concerned about the tone of your thread. But no one was calling you names or making personal judgements of you but when you didn't like the comments that started popping up that is what you did to anyone who didn't agree with you. You lashed out and got defensive. It is not my intention to judge you at all and as I stated before on another thread. I would never presume to judge a person over a few threads on a computer anyway. I still think that you have a great family and I can tell that you are striving to live the Gospel. So please don't assume these observations I have made about this thread is to judge you. I sincerely hope that you will take another look at everything that has transpired and see why some people have responded in ways that are perhaps not as favorable as you would prefer. You said if someone could show you that you have made an error you would consider them your friend. So it's in that spirit I am saying these things. Not in a spirit of judgment or to cause more contention for you. I hope you are not letting these things bother you too much. I wish for you to have peace and harmony and wish you well.

by **sisterp** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:04 pm

SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:
Anyone who believes that one cup of coffee will disqualify a person spiritually from the temple but that deliberately risking life and limb going under the knife to have bags of goo stuffed under their breast to make them more acceptable to man (not healthier, not longer lasting, not more honest or decent, not more modest or acceptable to God, or any other virtue) who believes the greater offense lay with the cup of coffee, and they are not as or more disqualified, seriously is delusional.

I'm responding to this because I am the one who made the comment about the coffee. First off, I would like to say that it does make me feel judged that you would say I seriously am delusional. You took what you wanted out of my comments and disregarded the rest to make me look like an idiot. I was merely trying to explain why this might not be such an easy cut and dried decision for some as it clearly is for you. There are a list of questions one must answer when interviewing for a temple recommend. Following the word of wisdom is one of the questions. Whether or not you have had a boob job is not, nor have I ever heard of any woman being denied a temple recommend because she had breast enlargements. Am I wrong on this, do you know of temple recommends being denied?

There has never been any counsel or direction given from the pulpit specifically about boob jobs. There has been about drinking coffee. Now, you may consider yourself on a higher plane than most of the saints (clearly you do), and so that's great. Realize and accept with charity and love that not everyone is on that plane, and so many are simply doing their best to follow the guidelines they know about, perhaps not realizing that there are some decisions we are not being counseled about. Accept all of your sisters in the gospel at the level they are at spiritually, without looking down your nose at them and the decisions they make that you consider to be faulty.

You said you have no need of false friendships, but appreciate honesty and candor. I don't know you from Adam, in fact I don't know a single person on this forum. I've never met anyone or spoken with anyone here in real life. So, based solely on what I have read in a few threads that you have posted in, I will honestly from the bottom of my heart tell you that I think you are one of the most judgemental and prideful people on this forum. I'm not trying to be hurtful, you asked for honesty, and you won't accept it from someone you obviously have a history with. I'm in agreement with sun. There is yet much work for you to do on yourself before you should be treating and judging people here the way you do.

I am no better than you are, in fact, in some areas of my life I am sure you are leaps and bounds ahead of me. The sad thing is you know it and you think it makes you better than me.

by **gtoda** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:21 am

I really think you guys are making "mountains out of mole hills". To some I would like to say "get stuffed". To others, it seems you're a little "puffed up". Some of your arguments seem so "plastic". And last but not least - If thy right boob ofend thee...

by **sisterp** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:22 am

Re: Young Women's leaders and boob jobs-a thesis

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